Merchant Posting Changes

scotty on 12/09/2009 - 10:01

UPDATE: All changes have been implemented so I am removing the "DRAFT" from title.

Historically, OzBargain allows merchants, store owners/staffs, service providers, etc to post their own bargains. Merchants are encouraged to apply for Store Representative account. After all OzBargain is a community for the consumers, and a bargain is a bargain whether it is posted by the merchant or by other fellow consumers.

However I (and other members) have observed some serious issues with merchants abusing this ability to use OzBargain solely as cheap advertising platform.

  • Sockpuppeting has been a continuing issue, despite warnings on the posting pages. Some merchants simply do not bother to declare themselves.
  • Posting multiple offers each day, for several days a week. OzBargain deals page is now littered with Rep postings.

Instead of turning OzBargain into a mailbox stuffed with junk mails, we need to make some changes to turn it back to consumer focused community.

Proposed Changes

Merchant Posting is Still Allowed

One thing that will not go away is merchant posting, and having ability to register as a store representative. Special deals from good merchants are still one good source of bargains.

Posting Limits for Store Reps

To battle speed-posting and simply using OzBargain to dump daily offers, I would like to have some throttling on how many posts a store rep can post about the offers from his/her store. Current proposal:

  • Maximum 1 per day
  • Maximum 2 per week

That also means if merchants have something that they want the whole OzBargain community to know, they need to plan ahead and only post the ones that will attract the best responses.

No Votes on Own Deals

Voting on a deal shows that you have found this deal useful and is truly a bargain — and it's usually a response from the consumers rather than from the merchants. Therefore for store rep posting their own offers, they will not be able to vote on the deals they have posted. That also means store rep posted deals will start with 0 votes.

Simplified Store Rep Declaration

Previously a merchant have to send in an email asking for the store profile to be created for the store rep status to be assigned. It would usually be a 1-2 day process (depending on how busy I am). Store Rep declaration should now just be a checkbox on the deal posting page that says

  • Yes, I am affiliated with store.
Feedbacks

I am planning to implement all these by the end of September. Please comment (from both members and merchants).

Site Discussion

Comments

  • mason on 12/09/2009 - 10:28
    +1

    The posting limits for store reps is a great idea and yes 2 a week is plenty. Hopefully this will encourage the reps to consolidate their posts. My only worry is they will just create normal accounts to get around this, but this will always be a problem.

    • HueyData on 12/09/2009 - 10:39
      +1

      Yep, great ideas.

      In terms of sockpuppeting, mods will keep a very close eye and reps/stores face permanent bans for this improper conduct. Most should be able to make the right decision in light of the consequences …

  • neil on 12/09/2009 - 10:43
    +2

    Sounds good. The only thing I would say might be good is a system to reward merchants who post good deals. So for every popular deal a merchant posts, they get an extra deal added to their limit.

    • mason on 12/09/2009 - 11:01
      +3

      Thats a good idea, you could set a level like over 30+ votes to earn another post.
      Also another thought could you maybe limit all members to 2 per week from the same site. This would also stop people who post a lot of deals from the same site but who are not reps.

      • scotty on 14/09/2009 - 10:39
        -1

        This would also stop people who post a lot of deals from the same site but who are not reps.

        Normally that would raise alarm with the mods and the motivation of posting so many deals from the same site needs to be checked. One obvious implication of throttling the store reps is that some of them might go underground getting someone else to post for them, or do it themselves by creating multiple accounts (not that they are not doing it at the moment though). OzBargain will continue to fight merchants who do not follow our terms and conditions of use, by banning their sites temporarily (or permanently for repeated offenders).

  • iibuy on 12/09/2009 - 16:36
    +1

    This is a very great initiative of keeping the deals free of spamming. Thumbs Up.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2009 - 01:00
    +1

    Not only do the limits assist our hunters it also assists the other merchants, so their deals dont get washed away when someone floods the posts, so merchants should see the gain from these proposals

  • bobsi18 on 13/09/2009 - 23:44
    +1

    As a merchant and a user, I think this is a great idea. But I also think it's a good idea to somehow (not really sure how) try to limit how many posts there are from the same site, like mason suggested.

  • bulkie on 15/09/2009 - 13:20

    Sounds good tbh.

  • JJBYPC on 15/09/2009 - 15:41

    Sound very good to me too.
    You've got my support with these ideas.

  • JJBYPC on 15/09/2009 - 16:29

    Scotty,

    Will be changing the way -Negative votes affects such a deal?

    Eg: if the deal starts from 0 vote, and a person votes Neg, that will send the deal to the backyard. Just saying because, a deal to one person might mean NO Deal to another.

    Hope you guys can find a way to balance the votes on deals posted by Reps.

    Thanks

  • QQQ - CatchOfTheDay on 16/09/2009 - 12:26
    +3

    While I am a merchant, I really only visit this site now as a consumer, so take my comments below in that spirit.

    I agree changes need to be made Scotty, however the main issue from my perspective is not quantity, is quality.

    Bear in mind -

    1 - The limit does not help in increasing the quality of postings, you may have 1000 newbie merchants who have never heard of staticice, or charge $50 shipping for a laptop, peddling their wares twice a week = sea of spam.

    2 - Most merchants have multiple websites.

    They need to be good deals, or they can keep them to themselves.

    Please implement the changes you mention, but give moderators a mandate to penalise for posting trash/spam deals.

    Whats emerging as another frustration point are some of the limited stock specials, as posted by reps or members.

    For example, when catchoftheday sell a limited number of consoles at half price to get some excitement happening.

    I believe this type of offer is all very nice, while stock is available. However if stock is not available, and the offer is expired, the bargain should be locked, and marked as expired.

    Users should have the option to notify a mod that stock has sold out.

    Having constant limited offers being posted as "ongoing bargains", reduces the overall quality of content on the site and dilutes the discussion.

    I suggest that once expired or sold out they be locked for voting, and commenting may continue.

    Why should a wii for $199 be present in the top deals for the week, when it was only available for 10 minutes before being all snapped up?

    Post the deal if its available by all means, if its not, please don't tease the rest of us.

    Lastly, posting of bargains before they are available.

    For example, we will be having our next pressure cooker sale announced in the next few days, and I can now foresee many newbie posters submitting them in advance and getting burnt.

    Users should mention the start date of the deal, and if its not available, it should be rejected.

    I don't see why "COMING SOON" should be a discussion or voting point, most people reserve votes until the sale anyway.

    Pre-posting shouldn't be allowed.

    Love the site anyway, always online.

    QQQ.

    • scotty on 17/09/2009 - 12:12
      +1

      Thank you. All very valid points. Reporting bad/expired/spammy deals are in the works, and many other points are a matter of policy and making those policy known.

      OzBargain can probably be seen as a "crowd-sourcing experiment", and I believe with enough people interested in getting the best deals, it would "work by itself" most of the time :) Many regulars and keen contributors know about the policy. For example "competition" is widely known that should not be posted on OzBargain, and they often get enough negative votes and drop out completely before I even notice. I am hoping everyone works together would actually reduce moderators' load, rather than increasing it (i.e. putting more police on the job). My job is to automate these so the community could work together.

    • samfisher5986 on 17/09/2009 - 23:47

      well said QQQ :)

  • scotty on 17/09/2009 - 12:14
    +1

    Store Rep posting limits are now live (as of last night).

    • Maximum 1 post per all reps per store per day.
    • Maximum 2 posts per all reps per store per week.

    "Bonus" points to reward good merchants is yet to be implemented because I am still trying to formulate a good algorithm on it.

    Merchants with multiple stores can be grouped together (once we figured out that they are related).

  • ODS on 18/09/2009 - 09:47

    Scotty,

    Whilst I am a merchant - and a new one (on OzBargains - only) I currently see a few issues - on the site - and think that the limitations that you propose will be well recieved from both a store/user perspective.

    I beleive that having MODS "mandate a good deal" is not the way to go - after all isnt this a community site? What is one mans bargain is anothers SPAM?

    As a % of users OZBargainers make up a very small number of our transactions - and limited time bargains are exactly that - limited. If it is posted here and then sells out - there should be no negs on that reason alone - if you snooze you lose.

    All in all - consumer education needs to change and the perception of businesses selling online is one that WE as businesses need to be responsible for. Reputation is everything in this game - as the ones that put up a front will only survive for so long….

    Still love the site,

    ODS.

  • Turd on 18/09/2009 - 09:51

    QQQ Im very surprised at your comments. Well said!

  • danilochan on 18/09/2009 - 13:35

    Please implement the changes you mention, but give moderators a mandate to penalise for posting trash/spam deals

    good point. penalise memebers (not limited to store rep) fro posting trash or spam. I suggest the trash or spam deal should be defined by mod or at least 5 neg vote in balance (ie. pos vote - neg vote = -5 or less).

    Some neg votes (very few) are against to seller instead of the deal. Currently, with 2 neg vote in balance, the deal is trashed, other member may lost his chance to know the deal.

    I suggest that once expired or sold out they be locked for voting, and commenting may continue.

    +1

    • HueyData on 18/09/2009 - 16:26

      penalise memebers (not limited to store rep) fro posting trash or spam.

      There should already be a system for that, with domains automatically banned temporarily for receiving a certain number of negative votes.

      I suggest the trash or spam deal should be defined by mod or at least 5 neg vote in balance (ie. pos vote - neg vote = -5 or less).

      Some obvious spam is unpublished by mods while the community picks up on others. However, due to the way OzBargain is set up with the score-based visibility of deals, only about 1 in 50 deals with negative votes will reach a net score of -5 or lower, as deals are largely not seen beyond -2 and thus less likely to receive further votes.

      Some neg votes (very few) are against to seller instead of the deal. Currently, with 2 neg vote in balance, the deal is trashed, other member may lost his chance to know the deal.

      This is an issue I've raised in the past (actually with relation to your shipping costs). The options seem limited but it's probably not a major issue right now.

      • scotty on 19/09/2009 - 21:23

        Yes we have domain-level temporary bans, but now we also have user-level temporary bans, to catch the case where a troll comes in to post 5 random not-so-good deals from 5 different stores.

        What I need to do I guess is to make those temporary ban status more obvious.

      • HueyData on 23/09/2009 - 14:02

        The options seem limited but it’s probably not a major issue right now.

        Following the recent changes, I think this has become a more notable issue that does need to be addressed.

        With rep deals now starting at 0 votes, a single swift negative vote, whether justified or unjustified, hides the deal from any OzBargain users that have not manually lowered the default threshold at which deals are visible (net score of 0). This presumably applies to the vast majority of users, and therefore means that a quick individual can now effectively decide whether the rest of the community sees a rep-submitted deal.

  • JHS8 Trading on 05/01/2011 - 15:28

    hi, I just want to know how can I cancel the store rep declaration? Thanks

    • scotty on 05/01/2011 - 22:23

      Don't think you have been assigned as any.

      • JHS8 Trading on 06/01/2011 - 10:48

        Actually I ticked the store rep box when creating my first deal yesterday, somehow I was told to fix up the deal. I edited the deal, but still cannot post the deal right now. Feel so desperate T^T

        • pauly on 06/01/2011 - 23:12

          Your previous post was unpublished, hence it is no longer visible to others except yourself and the mods.

          Feel free to post another deal, but I would suggest that you read our deal posting guidelines before you do.

  • BingLee on 07/04/2011 - 09:23

    How can we be upgraded to be allowed to post 1 deal per day?

    • neil on 07/04/2011 - 09:27

      Every merchant gets 1 post per day, 2 per 7 days.

  • restaurantdeals on 16/08/2011 - 12:06

    Hi guys, can someone clarify how the 2 posts a week calculated?
    As a rep, I want to post on Tuesday and Thursday.. my last post was on 12-08-2011.. and when I tried to post today, it didn't allow me saying I've been exceeded the limit..etc..
    Can someone pls clarify this? cheers

    • neil on 16/08/2011 - 12:18

      Yes, it is 2 posts per 7 day blocks.

      Your first post 10/08/2011 - 16:28
      Second post 12/08/2011

      Thus 7 days plus 10/08/2011 - 16:28 = 17/08/2011 - 16:28

      • restaurantdeals on 16/08/2011 - 12:21

        Thanks for the clarification… I will start from Thursday then

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