The Ethics of Discounts/Bargains/Deals - YouTube Creator

Linsane on 25/10/2022 - 14:38
Last edited 25/10/2022 - 15:10 by 1 other user

A quick thread, spurred on by recent discussion of Youtube Premium price increases in 3rd World countries.

I posted that I am a Youtube content creator, when people were discussing adblocking services for Youtube. I posted that as a small Youtube content creator, we don't get paid much for the hours worked, and that using an adblocking service instead of paying for (for example) even Youtube Premium in India or Turkey or something, is upsetting to me, as a creator.

It brought me to more of a general topic, what are the Ethical limits of getting a bargain? If it's a big company do you care? If it's a tiny shop would you take advantage of a price error?

If you use an ad blocker for Youtube do you feel at all guilty that the creators then aren't getting paid? Do you pay them in other ways like Patreon, YT membership or super thanks or something?

We have about 5k subs and get about 28,000 views a month, almost all from Australia, from our weekly ~30 minute Episodes. We are getting about $280 in income from YT a month, and have even dropped midroll ads from our content so our viewers don't cop any ads in the middle of the episode.

I guess I'm trying to understand why people feel like they shouldn't support small creators financially when they are consuming the content?

Poll Options expired

  • 572
    I don't care about creators. Ad blocker for me.
  • 268
    I pay for Youtube Premium in a cheaper country
  • 154
    I pay for Youtube Premium in Australia
  • 23
    I support content creators in other ways
  • 101
    I just watch the ads
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Comments

  • iNeed2Pee on 25/10/2022 - 14:45
    +85

    I must have been living in the stone-age. I downloaded an adblocker today for pop ups and I can see why 10 million others have done the same.

    • brendanm on 25/10/2022 - 19:31
      +12

      I'm sorry you've had to endure that for so long.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 26/10/2022 - 18:07
        +19

        Ads are for idiots.

        Not only do they clutter up pages, they can obscure content, slow loading and provide a vector for viruses.

        • payless69 on 29/10/2022 - 03:36

          Gerry H proved the fact that we have more than 50% idiots! He is not alone.
          Look at facebook now and their declining revenue!

    • WordsToSayIt on 26/10/2022 - 09:19

      @iNeed2Pee which one did you download?

      • iNeed2Pee on 26/10/2022 - 10:13

        Adblock plus I believe:)

        • OZKap on 26/10/2022 - 12:53
          +35

          Use uBlock Origin instead. Adblock plus (if I remember right) partners with ad creators to let some ads/trackers through

          • iNeed2Pee on 26/10/2022 - 14:55

            @OZKap: Thanks, switched over

          • virhlpool on 27/10/2022 - 00:55
            -8

            @OZKap: Adblock Plus works in Chrome Incognito mode.. uBlock Origin doesn't seem to work.

            • iseeyou1312 on 27/10/2022 - 13:20
              +7

              @virhlpool: You need to go to chrome://extensions and enable it for incognito mode. By default no extensions work in Incognito.

          • pwnd on 27/10/2022 - 09:49
            +7

            @OZKap: Probably not what OP's intent was, but now I have a good ad blocker. Cheers

          • kaleidoscope on 28/10/2022 - 13:43
            +1

            @OZKap:

            Adblock plus (if I remember right) partners with ad creators to let some ads/trackers through

            Just go to manage extension and untick the box that says "Show acceptable ads" and skip the survey prompt like a champ!.

            I have tried ublock origin in past and found that to be causing lot of issues with certain websites and some required content was not working because of it (ofcourse you can whitelist some of those when that happens. But hey! I'm lazy and have no intention to do 10 other things to tweak the plugin while i want to do some other important task)

            • OZKap on 28/10/2022 - 16:06

              @kaleidoscope: Lmao I'd rather not use an ad blocker that would even consider partnering with advertisers.

              Lmao a survey prompt while changing adblocker settings.

        • Munki on 26/10/2022 - 14:34
          +3

          Switch to uBlock Origin. Trust me bro.

        • kewlaz on 27/10/2022 - 16:39

          I use 'Adblock plus' and 'AdGuard AdBlocker' they seem to play nice together.

    • Haulien on 28/10/2022 - 20:30
      +2

      Take it a step further and install SponsorBlock too, to skip sponsored segments of videos!

  • Stopback on 25/10/2022 - 14:51
    +106

    small Youtube content creator, we don't get paid much for the hours worked,

    Youtube is not a job, its a hobby

    • Xistn on 25/10/2022 - 14:52
      +16

      Making content is a hobby not a life style.

        • ozhunter on 25/10/2022 - 15:02
          +123

          You' don't have to continue to do it if you don't think it's worthwhile.

          • nottodaysunshine on 25/10/2022 - 15:57
            +14

            @ozhunter: But then they can't go on the internet and whinge….

            • brendanm on 25/10/2022 - 19:32
              +8

              @nottodaysunshine: Maybe they could make a video, complaining about how hard it is to make videos, and that no one wants to pay for it? Very meta.

          • AddNinja on 26/10/2022 - 14:49
            +8

            @ozhunter: OP: I made some content. Here are the conditions under which you can view it.

            Ozbargain: That’s a hobby! It has no value.

            OP: Sure thing.

            Ozbargain: … … … …

            Ozbargain: <<Takes content anyway, in a way where creator gets no money>>

            Ozbargain: … And I don’t want to hear any of your whining.

            • ozhunter on 26/10/2022 - 14:52
              +4

              @AddNinja: The viewer has no agreement with him, he doesn't own Youtube.

              OP: I made some content. Here are the conditions under which you can view it.

              Yea, he set it that people can view it without being a paying member.

              He can set his videos if he only wants members to watch it, https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7544492?hl=en#zipp…

              Ozbargain: <<Takes content anyway, in a way where creator gets no money>>

              If he wasn't getting anything from Youtube, he would stop, but he's still getting something.

              • AddNinja on 26/10/2022 - 15:04
                +1

                @ozhunter: Ozbargain: <<Takes content anyway, in a way where creator gets no money >>

                Me: You are taking something you claim to not value in a manner that stops the creator getting money for it.

                Ozbargain: <<any number of overly complex justifications that always mean Ozbargain doesn’t have to pay for content it consumes>>

                Including:
                It was made by whiners. (irrelevant)
                It was made as a hobby. (irrelevant)
                I don’t value the content. (irrelevant and paradoxical)
                Other people will pay instead (hmm - we need a word for that attitude)
                Content creator didn’t set conditions of sale (bizarre)

                • ozhunter on 26/10/2022 - 15:15
                  +2

                  @AddNinja: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/12853735/redir

                  Already put a list of reasons why I think people use adblockers.

                  You're going to whinge anyway, but if you want people to stop viewing you're content for free, then stop uploading to a website that allows them to do so or that allows them to easily bypass viewing ads. They put an option that only allows paying members to view it and then still doesn't take it 🤷‍♂️

                  • AddNinja on 26/10/2022 - 15:21

                    @ozhunter: “make it so that it is harder for me to consume your content and violate the conditions under which I view it”

                    — Added to list of overly complex justifications.

                    • ozhunter on 26/10/2022 - 15:34

                      @AddNinja: Add them to the list I already made in a comment below, lol.

                  • Jackson on 28/10/2022 - 18:49

                    @ozhunter: They can only do this realistically once they have hit a critical mass, as otherwise people won't find out about it.

                    Your policy if I could call it that probably has the effect of reducing the amount of variety in content available by making video creation on YouTube harder to justify when starting out rather than say, working a job, and there for reducing variety in content. I guess we can all be happy watching Linus Tech Tip and MKBHD

                    • ozhunter on 29/10/2022 - 04:27

                      @Jackson: I assume you replying to my comment about him to put his content behind a paywall.

                      It's obvious why he would, it would stunt his growth dramatically, and he doesn't even want to acknowledge his has this option.

                      I mentioned it as an option because is so adamant that creators deserve money for the videos they upload and that people are stealing his content. Yet he doesn't even choose this option

                      • Jackson on 29/10/2022 - 21:07

                        @ozhunter: Yeah it's a bit of a "don't hate the player hate the game" situation, but on the other hand everyone saying that nothing is a job unless it's employment is a bit nuts too. As usual the reasonable path is somewhere in the middle

                • insane on 27/10/2022 - 13:15

                  @AddNinja: This is how I see it. It's crazy right?

                  So many justifications!

            • brendanm on 26/10/2022 - 21:27

              @AddNinja:

              Here are the conditions under which you can view it.

              Unfortunately for you, the content creator doesn't get to place for conditions on the viewing. They have placed it on YouTube for all to see.

        • Boioioioi on 25/10/2022 - 15:08
          +13

          Don't listen to these guys, I think you can do whatever you want and if you feel its a worthy job, its a job. Perhaps you should look at getting outside sponsorship and do your own ads?

          Personally I hate ads, but I pay for YT premium so that I can support the creators I enjoy

          • insane on 25/10/2022 - 15:12
            +3

            @Boioioioi: Appreciate the reply. I also hate Ads so also pay for YT Premium. I see it as the best of both worlds, I consume content I like, and pay a small amount for it so both Youtube and the creators get paid.

            We are fine financially, we have heaps of different revenue streams of which YouTube is just one.

            I'm genuinely just interested in if people care about small creators getting paid.

            • jatyap on 27/10/2022 - 00:27

              @insane: People (those who can afford to, at least) generally appreciate content that is relevant to them, and are happy to pay for those. For me, personally, it doesn't really matter if the content creator is a giant company or a bloke in his garage.

              That said, not all of the content from a certain creator will be relevant to me. Similar to books/articles and authors/writers, I may be happy to pay for a certain book by a certain author, but if the rest of his books are not something I want, I would rather save my money than spend it on subscribing for continuing content from them.

              Sometimes, I need to look at a portion of the content to see whether it is or is not relevant to me.

              I don't mind ads that much, so I don't have an ad blocker on, but 2x 15 second ads to see if a 5-10 minute video is worth watching can sometimes be frustrating.

            • ThadtheChad on 28/10/2022 - 12:02

              @insane: Personally, I pay for YT premium as it brings exceptional value to me, and it allows me to support content creators for all their effort.

              For some content creators that I really like, I also have sub'd to their patreon to provide further support.

              I understand that not everyone can afford to do this - so that is also fine IMHO. YT ads can be quite egregious so I definitely understand folks using Adblockers to get some semblance of sanity back.

              Edit: I not surprised there is a huge pushback from the general OzB community on "content creation" as a full-time job/deserving monetary recompense.

        • nottodaysunshine on 25/10/2022 - 16:27
          +5

          Wow, 12 hours work? Crumbs, you must be shattered.

        • Quantumcat on 25/10/2022 - 17:13
          +38

          Creating youtube content for money is a lot like sewing. You can buy a kid's dress for $10 from Best n Less, or make one yourself from $30 worth of fabric and supplies and about 5 hours' work. Sure, the one you make might be better quality, and someone might pay say $40 for that better quality, but you are not going to get rich making $2/hour.

          If you are going to do it, it's because you love sewing anyway so why not get a little back to fund the hobby, and your kids only need so many of the same dress. People that make money from creating clothes have contacts in China or India to get custom fabric and haberdashery made for much cheaper than buying it retail, and might have part or all of the process done in a factory where labour is cheap, and they do large volumes. They probably also have contracts in place with retailers to get their stuff out there and visible and make a lot of sales. This way they're able to have it be a job.

          Similar with youtube - if you do it professionally, have staff to handle all the various specialised tasks, have marketing people to get you good sponsorship deals etc you can make a living from it. But not just a group of friends doing stuff in front of a green sheet in their bedrooms. That's a hobby, and any money they make should be seen as a bonus to help them continue with their hobby. It isn't a job.

        • mitt on 26/10/2022 - 12:19
          +2

          The labour theory of value is not only incorrect, it is so incorrect it lead to the deaths of millions when it was put into practice.

          If you subscribe to the labour theory of value, you will go hungry.

        • SteveD on 26/10/2022 - 17:27
          +5

          Probably instead of putting pressure on the viewers to disable adblocker. You should take it up with Youtube who are actually not passing on your earned revenue which they make from Ads.
          If the platform is not Ethical with the content creators, why are you getting agitated with the viewers using ad block?
          I know few content creators who were fed up with Youtube policy, they started affiliating with companies to generate revenue. Why don't you affiliate with companies so you can generate revenue and not rely on Youtube to pay you.

        • Hahuh on 27/10/2022 - 04:18
          +2

          One would think that there is a certain risk at pursuing something akin to the gig economy.

        • irony on 27/10/2022 - 08:03

          I hate ads in youtube and block them when I can, but I whitelist ozbargin.
          It is going to be very different for each person, but in youtube… rollin ads, 2x maybe 30 seconds (or 10 secs and 2 clicks), mid roll ads, end roll ads, in content promos. Seriously too much. On youtube, it is also block one, block all, so I can't choose who to whitelist. Does that help the OP?

      • xazark on 25/10/2022 - 16:54
        +48

        if there is no paid contract then its a hobby, you are creating content in the hope of making money. You can choose to stop at any time and will not have any impact, where as a TV producer is paid to work X hours for Y output for Z pay. Until you have a contract with Youtube or another someone else to produce content, it is a hobby that is making you some side money

        • cydia9k on 27/10/2022 - 10:47
          -1

          If you are investing a major chunk of your time into an activity at a professional level that generates income, it is your profession…… A paid contract is the difference between hobby and job to you? Are you blind to just how much money flows through the gig/freelance economy?

          • brendanm on 27/10/2022 - 12:33
            +5

            @cydia9k: You realise that the gig/freelance economy still has a contract with each person they deal with. They don't just hand things out, deliver things for free etc, and hope someone gives them some cash.

            • cydia9k on 27/10/2022 - 15:08
              -4

              @brendanm: @brendanm You are stubbornly locked to thinking within a specific stream of business activity that is contingent on a contract.

              Is a self-employed barista engaged in a contract with a customer? No.

              Is a tech reviewer who earns more than my annual salary on non-sponsored referrals in a contract with the manufacturer / content host? Not necessarily.

              • brendanm on 27/10/2022 - 15:28
                +6

                @cydia9k:

                Is a self-employed barista engaged in a contract with a customer? No.

                Hahaha of course they are. The customer asks for a coffee, the barista gives them a price, the customer pays it, then receives their coffee. Literally a contract.

                Is a tech reviewer who earns more than my annual salary on non-sponsored referrals in a contract with the manufacturer / content host? Not necessarily.

                Again, they have a contract with the manufacturer for X % of revenue from a referral link. I think you need to find out how co tracts work.

                Also, you don't have to tag people of you reply to the comment they made, they are notified anyway.

                • cydia9k on 28/10/2022 - 01:07
                  -6

                  @brendanm: Knew you'd come back with something daft like that, think whatever you want

                  • brendanm on 28/10/2022 - 07:14
                    +4

                    @cydia9k: Hilarious. It's not daft, it is an actual contract. Offer, acceptance, payment, delivery. Same for all of them.

                    Whereas this weird your tube example simply has delivery. No offer, no acceptance, therefore, no payment required.

          • Jaysful on 27/10/2022 - 14:57
            +3

            @cydia9k: But aren't there inherent differences between the various types of 'income'? Each has its own risk and reward. You can play it safe and grind ur 9-5, or work towards becoming a major content creator making millions in sponsors, and deals (but also a chance of not making it).

            I think comments here are just finding it confusing why OP has chosen the latter path but is unhappy with the inherent risk that comes with this decision. Calling it a 'hobby' is just an attempt to troll OP and OP is taking the bait.

          • brosk1s on 28/10/2022 - 19:06
            +2

            @cydia9k: When I take a job as a freelancer, I have a contract with my client that I will provide x service for z pay, I don't work for free with the hopes of making money. YouTube is closer to volunteering than any reference to a gig/freelancer economy

    • nikoris on 25/10/2022 - 23:47
      +6

      If it weren’t a job, what content would you watch ffs

    • ribze1 on 26/10/2022 - 11:33
      +1

      I agree. No one should set you to make this a career, you are doomed to fail. Needs to be for fun and if it takes off then you make a judgement call.
      I've followed youtubers <100k subs who are now over 1m.

    • smartazz104 on 26/10/2022 - 16:40
      +4

      Said by the kinds of people stuck in the 9 to 5 rut.

    • CodeExplode on 27/10/2022 - 16:46
      +3

      I've known software engineers who've moved from high paying jobs at Intel and IBM to making YouTube content full-time once their channels got big enough.

      It absolutely is a job and you are a cave man stuck in the wrong century, who furthermore is obnoxiously demanding that others make things for you for free and then telling them they're wrong to make it.

      • Jackson on 28/10/2022 - 19:03
        +1

        Saying these people don't have jobs is like saying they shouldn't pay tax on their earnings, see how that flies with the ATO

    • no not me on 28/10/2022 - 09:25
      +1

      Do you consider top earning YouTubers who have decently sized companies and employ people to be hobbyists? I'm pretty sure dedicating regular hours to something and expecting to be paid for it can be considered a job. Whether or not you're able to derive an income from that specific thing is another story entirely.

  • capslock on 25/10/2022 - 14:53
    +38

    Maybe you need to produce different content, something that gets more views, merchandise sales, Patreon donations and so on.

    Blaming the audience probably won't help your situation.

      • Quantumcat on 25/10/2022 - 15:50
        +24

        Youtube/Google is getting the lion's share of the ad revenue, I don't want to support them. You should make the ads yourself within the videos (have sponsors) or have a Patreon. I support 1 creator at a time on Patreon, doesn't cost me much, I don't have to support Google, I don't have to waste my time on ads, but I can support my current favourite creator of the day. I feel like only dummies watch ads.

        • Jackson on 28/10/2022 - 19:04

          You are a good bloke, I bet out of the 21 people that upvote you probably 1 or none do the same

      • nottodaysunshine on 25/10/2022 - 16:01
        +6

        "I don't need help with my situation thanks!"

        Then why ask 6 questions sandwiched in a lengthy post?

        • insane on 25/10/2022 - 16:03
          +9

          Because I want to know what the community feels is ethical or not.

        • skidexa on 26/10/2022 - 18:43
          +3

          What is the point of your post? To get upvotes?

      • irony on 27/10/2022 - 08:03

        How do I choose which creators ads to watch?

  • ozhunter on 25/10/2022 - 15:01
    +10

    $280 from 28,000 views. That's really good isn't it?

    • insane on 25/10/2022 - 15:02
      +6

      Yep it's quite high for Youtube. Mostly because our audience is wealthy Australians, and a significant portion do watch our ads, and also our YT Premium revenue has been steadily growing. It's also a fairly targeted sector for ads.

      • payless69 on 25/10/2022 - 15:30
        +1

        Just start a religion and then get a free trip to Vinfast as an ex LDS preacher!
        Hey create something without waffle and idiotic music and people will watch it!

      • ThithLord on 25/10/2022 - 16:46
        +4

        PM your channel and I will have a look, mate (I've got YT premium)

        • Jackson on 28/10/2022 - 19:06

          I would be interested too if you PM me

      • Polska Kielbasa on 28/10/2022 - 19:36
        +1

        "our audience is wealthy Australians"

        Then why are you posting this to Ozbargain..? ;)

        • Aneurism on 29/10/2022 - 00:53

          Con artists like to target wealthy Australians as well. They should get paid for their work too.

  • Yorkshire-Man on 25/10/2022 - 15:03

    I only ever look at Youtube when I have an issue with something (like how to repair something that is broken).

    • insane on 25/10/2022 - 15:04
      +2

      And would you watch the ads on that repair video so the person who made it gets a couple of cents?

      • Yorkshire-Man on 25/10/2022 - 15:21
        +2

        Sure. But as I only go there twice a year it's no drama

      • Guybrush57 on 26/10/2022 - 13:22
        +4

        Many repair videos are bloated to earn more income.

  • tsunamisurfer on 25/10/2022 - 15:12
    +51

    Since when do viewers owe it to content creators to make sure they get paid?

    Thats like me walking past a busker and being required to pay since their voice hit my ear drums.

    • insane on 25/10/2022 - 15:15

      I mean, this is why I started the thread. I find it interesting.

      I suppose the difference with a Busker is that you didn't ask them to play for you by clicking on the video and watching it?

      It's like, you shouldn't pay to hear music that's played in a shop, but if you stream music you should pay the creator of the music something? Either through an ad supported service or a paid service like YT Music?

      • samfisher5986 on 26/10/2022 - 11:08
        +24

        Your argument is flawed because Youtube autoplay will actually automatically play your video as well as automatically suggested your video.

        You have a strong sense of entitlement to getting paid from viewers when thats simply not the correct platform.

        If you feel you need to be paid from your videos then simply upload it as a paid video to Vimeo or the many other paid video services.

        • Aneurism on 29/10/2022 - 00:55

          Entitled narcissists such as these only seek to hear voices that validate their own view point and preach from their moral high horse to the rest.

      • mrvaluepack on 26/10/2022 - 13:05

        What if your video was auto-next played at the end of a video i watched because youtube "suggested" it but i didnt specifically clicked on your video? So are viewers then entitled to view your content for free because they didn't specifically clicked on it?

        • MorriJ on 26/10/2022 - 22:40
          +3

          Agreed! If I stopped to listen to a busker and enjoyed their content, I would consider throwing them some low value coins from my wallet.

          If the busker finished and then some random shows up afterwards singing and dancing around, I would not feel in any way shape or form obligated to throw them some currency. If they then started demanding I listen to them holler about insurance comparison websites, I would not be happy and would switch off.

      • cuteseal on 27/10/2022 - 09:28

        Don't hate the player, hate the game. :P

    • insane on 25/10/2022 - 15:31
      +4

      Out of interest, if you sat there and watched a busker playing for 30 minutes, would you walk away after they finished playing happy that you didn't have to pay for it or would you give them 1c?

      • Quantumcat on 25/10/2022 - 15:57
        +10

        I would probably give them money. But, being in the middle of shopping, if they started spruiking a product, I would walk away and get back to my shopping. I left my house to get stuff done and I'm not going to waste time not doing what I came there for, for something I'm not at all interested in.

      • tsunamisurfer on 25/10/2022 - 17:56
        +4

        No I would not as I am tight with my money.

      • airtime on 26/10/2022 - 21:30
        +3

        Useful analogy.

        I nearly always will donate to buskers if I enjoy their music (the only type of busking activity I would stop for).

        But being forced to watch advertisements as an indirect way of paying for content, I am not comfortable with. I will use an ad-blocker at every opportunity.

        I've used Patreon to support a couple of content creators but never felt comfortable with it. One of them never provided the 'premium' content promised so I stopped that 'subscription'. The other I got bored with and combined with a general dislike of the Patreon platform, discontinued that too.

        If I could directly hand over a contribution, busker style, I would be happy to. But I don't feel comfortable or happy with the current online options which all take a significant slice of the money you contribute.

      • Yamadut on 28/10/2022 - 07:38

        Buskers get paid for showing up in person everyday.

        But in youtube, you record and upload it once and expect people to watch it for eternity and pay for eternity?

        It’s LIVE vs. RECORDED

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