Would an Independent Mechanic Understand The Electronic Parts of Newer / Modern Cars?

hentabara on 17/06/2023 - 14:20
Last edited 17/06/2023 - 14:38 by 1 other user

Does independent mechanic understand the electronic part of the car?
The mechanical part (engine, oil) is roughly the same, however the electronic part of newer car become more complicated.
Example:
- certain lights in the dashboard (lots of sensor and warning lights)
- gps, map, or radio system that might need certain code
- etc
I try to avoid dealership but I doubt the independent mechanic can handle newer car.
Any idea?

Note: we are talking about normal fuel car here (not electric one)

Thanks

Automotive Mechanic

Comments

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 17/06/2023 - 14:26
    +6

    Does independent mechanic

    What, all of them or what? Lol

    Could you… verify with them perhaps? Maybe.. by calling them?

    I doubt the independent mechanic can handle newer car.

    What’s your doubt based on?

    • hentabara on 17/06/2023 - 16:13

      Because newer car will be more digital, and each brand will have different software/system. So i thought each independent mechanic will have a hard time to keep up with all of those.

      • Sammy Boi on 18/06/2023 - 19:39
        +13

        You've made it pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about but you've also jumped to making massive assumptions.
        It's 2023 and you're talking about digital when it comes to cars?

        • ozbjunkie on 19/06/2023 - 05:42
          +6

          Cars are digital in that they are either on or off

          Qed

      • OzzyOzbourne on 19/06/2023 - 16:59

        Digital cars are easier, they are either on or off. It's the old analogue ones you have to watch out for, infinite states 😊

      • trapper on 19/06/2023 - 18:28
        +2

        They go look it up if they don't know, like any other professional does :)

      • CalmLemons on 19/06/2023 - 19:51

        You need to read more bro than making assumptions.

        Depending on the type of car, many mechanics are now trained to handle hybrid/electric cars.

        I don't want to go into detail with you and it may make the mechanics day just that much more harder.

        I believe the best thing for you is to just have peace of mind and go to the dealer - it is why they are there for to help you in particularly with your needs.

    • Sinnerator on 20/06/2023 - 08:11

      some cars need specific scan tools to access features and fix problems and program newer cars, most independent mechs don't have EVERY scan tool, so as you said you would need to call the mech and discuss

  • spackbace on 17/06/2023 - 14:31
    +3

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/720337

    De-ja-vu?

    Though with only 1 comment on that thread, and not participating at all in the discussion, I don't have high hopes for this one

    • spackbace on 20/06/2023 - 12:13

      And we're at only 1 comment on this post as well…

      Well done OP

  • AndyC1 on 17/06/2023 - 14:41
    +1

    Does independent mechanic understand the electronic part of the car?
    Yes they do.

    I try to avoid dealership but I doubt the independent mechanic can handle newer car.
    Any idea?
    Sounds like you need to do some research yourself instead in order to understand what the dealership is actually saying to you about the new car warranty as it sounds like you have interpreted what they have said that "you must get the car servicing done at the dealership in order to ensure that warranty is not violated", but this is not the normal case if you do your research.

  • GordonD on 17/06/2023 - 14:51
    +16

    Gave up on the dealer.

    Took my [unusual model] car to the local independent mechanic. Every time I went to pick it up I got handed a ridiculously large bill justified with comments of how hard it was to get the right parts and information. After that happening repeatedly, the next time I asked him if was interested in doing the job. He said no.

    Tried the next closest independent mechanic. Asked if they could do a [specified major job] on the car. Their answer was "I'm sure we'll figure it out as we go along". Didn't go back.

    There's lots of bits of even the most high tech car that are just like doing the same job on any car. And local independent mechanics can do those perfectly competently. But the more unusual a car is less likely they will be to have the tools and knowledge to do the stuff that's unique to that car. Cars like that you buy because there's something special about them. Then you offload them to someone else when the warranty runs out.

    • coxjon on 17/06/2023 - 14:57
      +14

      I had the same discussion with a mobile mechanic when he replaced the alternator in my RX7 - "Do you service rotaries?"
      "We'll have a go,"
      "No thanks."

    • bargain huntress on 17/06/2023 - 17:32
      -1

      what counts as an unusual car? what makes them unusual?

      • Protractor on 17/06/2023 - 18:44
        +2

        He has a 70's Fiat Bambino, fluoro pink?

        Goggomobil Dart covered in faux fur?

      • GordonD on 17/06/2023 - 18:46

        French. Renaultsport Clio. Renault has not sold a lot of cars in this country. And not a lot of those were Clio Sports. Its merely unusual in that most non-Renault mechanics have never worked on one. And hard to work on because they shoehorned the engine and transmission out of their medium size car into their small car to make a performance model.

        • azonki on 18/06/2023 - 09:02
          +4

          Plenty of good, independent workshops that can attend to the needs of something like your Clio.
          Join a Renault oriented forum or club and ask questions.

  • Protractor on 17/06/2023 - 15:12
    -2

    what a waste of time,space and opportunity thie query is

    How long is a piece of string

    • Pcosmic on 17/06/2023 - 19:52
      +6

      8m

      • Euphemistic on 17/06/2023 - 20:35
        +9

        Twice as long as half of it

        • trustnoone on 17/06/2023 - 20:55

          Is the plural of radius, diameter?

        • afoveht on 17/06/2023 - 21:29
          +1

          Which half?

      • iDroid on 18/06/2023 - 21:52

        That's rather long. Are you sure? Can we trust the string?

    • Geoff01 on 18/06/2023 - 08:39
      +1

      But you wasted more time answering.

      • Protractor on 18/06/2023 - 09:55
        -6

        Stellar observation, Jeff
        Glad you think this thread is leaning towards the productive side of the ledger

  • randomusername2017 on 17/06/2023 - 15:23

    Wonder if they'd understand parts of the opening post…

  • Ghost47 on 17/06/2023 - 16:07
    +3

    Depends on if they're the life-long learner type I would say.

  • mskeggs on 17/06/2023 - 16:32
    +2

    OP, are you struggling to keep up with technology changes in your job?

  • brendanm on 17/06/2023 - 16:36
    +9

    Like most things, it completely depends on the person. Some mechanics run out of talent with a basic service, some are far better than the "master tech's" at the dealers.

  • Leadfoot6 on 17/06/2023 - 16:46
    +1

    I wonder why people ask questions about cars on forums and don't specify what sort of car they are asking about.
    It seems completely stupid to me.

    • Pcosmic on 17/06/2023 - 19:53
      +2

      We're supposed to read minds

  • bargain huntress on 17/06/2023 - 17:35
    +3

    i'm afraid just like any job that is a service and a trade - a doctor, a hair stylist, a butcher - you can check qualifications and experience (do that) but in the end it's the individual person that matters the most.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/06/2023 - 17:44

    Do mechanics have to fulfil CPD points or equivalent for insurance/licence purposes?

  • Tanzere on 17/06/2023 - 17:51
    -4

    Auto-electricians work on the electrics and electronics and computer side. Mechanics work on the moving parts.

    • brendanm on 17/06/2023 - 21:53
      +1

      Not correct.

  • deme on 17/06/2023 - 18:18

    Yes

  • Protractor on 17/06/2023 - 18:46

    Google the bloke in blue overalls on the 'en-jin guard' advert. Best mechanic in town.

  • pegaxs on 17/06/2023 - 19:49
    +9

    Considering most dealerships employ 18yo apprentices… Yes. I get a lot of work that the dealers chuck in the too hard basket.

    Now, if you go somewhere and the independent mechanic looks and sounds like Scotty Kilmer… just walk out.

    • Emli on 18/06/2023 - 08:59

      Agree with this. Took a friend to a dealership to pick up her cat that was being serviced. Employee was leaving that day and was obviously disgruntled. He told her that cars are serviced by young employees/apprentices. Only a few are qualified.

      • larndis on 18/06/2023 - 10:02
        +11

        Personally I would never get my cat serviced at the dealership :)

    • cheng2008 on 18/06/2023 - 19:47

      Curious, what’s wrong with Scotty Kilmer?

  • Euphemistic on 17/06/2023 - 20:41
    +6

    Mostly the electronic bits look after themselves. a decent mechanic will have scanners for reading the daily codes as required.

    Sometimes the mechanic will encounter stuff that takes more figuring out if they aren’t familiar with a particular fault.

    So, routine service - local mechanic. Fault with common car - consider local mechanic fault with euro/rare car find a specialist.

  • Cave Fire on 17/06/2023 - 21:11
    +1

    Most will be up to date. Tech is pretty standard, just how quicly/used they are to doing that repair. If the quotes are higher or same as the dealer, then no brainer. Unless you know the dealer is bad (have seen a few horror stories on the net). There's people that have experience with certain cars so they quote less.

  • p1 ama on 17/06/2023 - 22:16
    +9

    The mechanical part (engine, oil) is roughly the same, however the electronic part of newer car become more complicated.

    Yes, but the vast majority of the maintenance of a car is not the electronics.

    • certain lights in the dashboard (lots of sensor and warning lights)

    Anyone with an ODB2 scanner can tell you what the sensor and warning lights are saying.

    • gps, map, or radio system that might need certain code

    GPS, maps, and radio systems should not need regular maintenance, so is broadly an irrelevant point.

    I try to avoid dealership but I doubt the independent mechanic can handle newer car.

    What makes you think a dealership is any better? They all went to the same schools, undertook the same apprenticeships…etc. There is no "magic sauce" that only the dealerships know. It's not like your local Mercedes-Benz dealer sends their apprentices to Germany to study with the cars' engineers. When they have to work with a new car, they have to work it out, just like any other mechanic.

    In fact, if anything, most cars have fantastic documentation which show you how to perform maintenance and repair tasks. Cars are not like consumer electronics devices, they are made to be serviceable and repairable.

    If you drive a Ferrari (or other supercar), then yes, absolutely I would believe that a dealership would receive some "special training", but not for your "run-of-the mill" cars, i.e. your Toyota / Mazda / Honda / VW / Mercedes / BMW…etc.

    • ssfps on 18/06/2023 - 00:00
      +2

      In fact, if anything, most cars have fantastic documentation which show you how to perform maintenance and repair tasks. Cars are not like consumer electronics devices, they are made to be serviceable and repairable.

      This is really the only difference. Dealerships may have access to more/better documentation, and will often (not always) have the special <brand> tool #4180.

    • DreadPirateRoberts on 18/06/2023 - 21:13
      +1

      The electronics in cars can absolutely make them far more complicated to service. OBD is only a "standardized" set of error codes and information, which often lacks detail. Manufacturers can and do choose to put whatever they want on the CANBUS accessible by only their tools

      Have a car with an electronic parking brake? You need a scan tool with the specific special function to wind out that parking brake motor to replace the rear brake discs.

      TPMS glitching out? Expensive scan tool is the only thing that can reset it, even if you've tried all the manufacturer recommendations for deflating and inflating your tyres

      Even some mechanical parts need to be coded in when they're replaced (e.g diesel injectors). How? Special scan tool / manufacturer software

      It's a joke. Our cars are now "only" about a decade old and I've had to purchase a $1k+ scan tool to finish up some servicing!

      • 811b11e8 on 19/06/2023 - 09:30

        We also have had issues with tire pressure monitoring in a car needing a special tool.

        Dealership can also be a pain, my car has a known issue with Bluetooth dropping out on bumpy roads, its a problem with some of the connections known issue dealership said it will be fixed for free, but the problem is their process to do it, is to reset the computer which they know will not fix it, wait for next service see if it's still happening and if so pull the head unit out and fix the wiring. Manufacturer pays if they follow the process, guessing a lot of people give up or dont try again after reset.

  • Bilby s on 18/06/2023 - 08:42
    +2

    Cars are not designed to be difficult to diagnose if the repairer has the latest east diagnostic tools and software updates. Most of the time electrical components are simply swapped out. If the repairer can’t sort it out, they would refer it to a specialist auto elec just like how a gp will refer it to a specialist. A good independent is the go and they should be honest enough to tell you if they can or can’t sort things out.

  • Emli on 18/06/2023 - 09:03

    I had this conversation with my independent mechanic last week after i asked him whether the new technology of hybrid and EV will make him eventually redundant or for only older cars. He explained how he would still be able to maintain them. He loves his job (fortunately for us as we have had bad experiences at stealerships and chain style companies).

    • CocaKoala on 18/06/2023 - 13:10

      Chain style thieveries are the worst, but probably only next to stealerships.

  • azonki on 18/06/2023 - 09:07

    A very good OBD scanner and intelligence is all your mechanic needs to solve problems.
    Regrettably, it's not usual to find them at big dealerships.
    Dealerships often have very good mechanics who are skilled at firing parts cannons.

  • Waltervp on 18/06/2023 - 09:40
    +3

    Go ahead and get your car serviced by a dealership, let the apprentices practise on your car. I'd prefer my own mechanic any time!!! If there is a code or issue beyond my local mechanics experience i can always go back to the dealer, but in general Mr Google helps us out much better.

    I've had so many sour experiences at dealerships, i just don't want to go there anymore unless i have to…. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I occasionally get one service done there if i feel there is a reason of sorts, but that's becoming increasingly less frequent!

    What bothers me most about newish cars is the enormous cost of genuine parts, no matter whether it's a Ford or a Merc.

  • 2esc on 18/06/2023 - 10:01

    Question? Does your car have a electronic problem?

    Most mechanics have some tools to deal with basic problems if its a dealer they may be able address a more difficult problem due to network support but dont think they will magically fix a electronic problem often they are dont have the abilities to pinpoint a problem conclusively its often a guessing game.

  • skillet on 18/06/2023 - 10:46
    +1

    Your independent if they are well equipped they will have a handheld universal scan tool that cost anywhere between $600-$4000. This is the expert version of the cheap Bluetooth OBD2 scanner plug. These tools help the mechanics do various stuff from basic error scanning to more advanced immobilizer and key programming. Some cars especially euros they need coding even for a small job like battery swap or steering wheel alignment. You can't avoid coding if you want to work on a modern platform.

  • dlakers3peat on 18/06/2023 - 11:39
    +1

    I understand where the op is coming from. Had my mechanic encounter a problem replacing the rear brakes and discs on my car, because he couldnt get in service mode to release the electric hand brake. He has all the latest scanners etc. Took him 5 hours, but finally managed to finally get it done. Replaced the front discs and pads without any problems. So a job that should have taken 1-2 hours took over 6 hours. It was an inconvenience, but i saved over $1000 going through him instead of the dealer.

    • Seni0r El Cheapo on 18/06/2023 - 12:45

      Did he charge you for 6 hours or just 2 hours?

      • dlakers3peat on 18/06/2023 - 23:27
        +1

        I always get a quote for any job, so he only charged me what was quoted. So only for 2 hours not 6 hours.

  • CocaKoala on 18/06/2023 - 13:29

    What's your "newer/modern car"? How could this question be reasonably answered if this info isn't provided?!

  • ZDC on 18/06/2023 - 19:00

    Like many other things, it depends on the mechanic/dealership in question. The benefits I see with dealerships is they have access to the proper diagnostic tools (software) and documentation (can be critical depending on the fault). Depending on the car, there can be a bit of software involved to facilitate certain tasks. At the end of the day, you can find switched-on mechanics whether they're independents or at dealerships. It just a matter of shopping around and using your intuition.

  • Sammy Boi on 18/06/2023 - 19:37
    -4

    1 you're asking this question on a bargain hunting website that's your first problem
    2 you have terrible English
    3 have you ever heard of an auto electrician?
    4 any qualified mechanic should be able to do work on a combustion engine vehicle and I feel like this post is just ignorant as….

    if it's mechanical you call a mechanic if it's electrical you call an auto electrician

  • Alexxx on 18/06/2023 - 21:18

    I gave up on dealerships and moved on to non-local mechanics that specialised in my car's. One is 45 mins away and the other is an hour.
    Only go there every 6 months so don't think it's that bad for good service and not being ripped off.

  • mrvaluepack on 18/06/2023 - 22:08

    Like any other job, a good one will consistently attend workshops and seminars to keep up to date and upskill themselves. While a bad one will stay stagnant and get left behind.

  • SpicyStew on 18/06/2023 - 22:33

    subjective without details
    depends on car
    depends on mechanic
    cannot answer

  • THICKnSLOW on 18/06/2023 - 23:57

    Definitely not the garages where the mechanics like to mod cars with straight through exhausts, de-cats and other exhaust mods because more noise means more VROOM VROOM BAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH TUTUTUTUTU

  • Dr Techno on 19/06/2023 - 00:31

    If you dont have faith in mechanics then why not DIY ? No one is going to take as good care of your car as yourself, if you invest the time into it.

    I've built my own ECU cables (before ODB standard) and fully replace and set my own CVT fluid after learning dealership doesnt even change or clean existing transmission filters. if you have access to the workshop manual for your car, it opens up a new world of possibilities

  • idonotknowwhy on 19/06/2023 - 10:18
    +1

    Lots of generalizations here lol. But I would (and did with my last car) find a mechanic who specializes in a particular make / model if you can.

  • goraygo on 19/06/2023 - 10:35

    It depends on your car. I have a Merc and most mechanics don’t have access to the diagnostic tools tailored to the Merc not to mention firmwares.

    I had a time where gear box needed a firmware upgrade as part of the service and the car feels smoother, the dealer just did it without telling me. But I felt the difference and went and read the service print out (which I normally don’t read). You will never know unless you service with the dealer.

    • GordonD on 19/06/2023 - 15:08

      I was told when I got my car back on one occasion that the manufacturer's diagnostics had detected something wrong with the firmware in my car's ECU, so they'd updated it without asking me. If they had asked me I would have told them not to. Because I'd gone to significant cost and trouble to get the ECU rechipped to fix a problem with the factory firmware, and to give me a significant number more kWs by being optimised for 98 octane.

      • goraygo on 19/06/2023 - 17:51
        +1

        But you are not the 90% of the population who doesn’t go and install or program the chip for performance. I used to do that with my JDM sports car.

        For most European cars owner with zero modifications, dealerships will give them firmware updates as part of the service which independent mechanics can’t.

  • jundullah on 19/06/2023 - 10:40
    +2

    Pro tip: service centres at dealerships are often staffed by apprentice mechanics.
    You're not guaranteeing yourself quality service by using a branded dealer for your repairs and what not.

    Look up a bunch of local mechanics on google, go through the reviews and you'll find someone suitable near you I'm sure.

    • goraygo on 19/06/2023 - 21:38

      Actually, even local mechanics are filled with apprentices. Just walk in and if you see a few young guys around, they aren’t that much dissimilar with dealership.

  • GordonD on 19/06/2023 - 10:58

    US states often hold votes on citizen initiated issues at the same time as their elections. The result requires the state government to either pass legislation or not depending on the result of the vote.

    One state (I apologise I don't remember which, and its not important which it was) held a vote that car manufacturers be required to provide whatever information was required for independent mechanics to be able to work on the computer an electronic systems in their cars. It passed. The state passed the required legislation.

    At which point the federal government told the car manufacturers to ignore that legislation, citing the fact that federal car design and manufacturing laws override any that a state passes.

    The argument that the US federal government found more compelling was that providing detailed knowledge of the electronic systems in cars would open them up to hacking.

    That hacking could be malicious, or just interfering with anti-pollution and safety mechanisms. Ford, for example, goes to great lengths to prevent even the most sophisticated performance hacking of its ECUs.

    • plmko on 19/06/2023 - 14:37

      Even if they enforced those laws companies can get around them by making it difficult to obtain the resources or just engineer out access via gluing parts together or make one way permanent clips.

      You look at Apple electronic parts store after they were forced to open up. Everything must be bought in a lot with an exuberant mark up and half the time they're on back order which could take months to supply.

      I could go on to say support the companies that are forthright with their customers. But the battle has been lost and the war is ending. It's clear that people just don't care enough.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/06/2023 - 19:07

      which government told car manufacturers they could ignore the legislation? (who was in power?)

  • Nedward on 19/06/2023 - 11:56
    -1

    Always cheaper to go independent instead of dealer but may void your warranty. If it's under warranty go to the dealer. Tesla especially like to restrict the customers' ability to repair themselves or go independent.

    • Thinkswithelbow on 19/06/2023 - 15:08
      +1

      This is garbage advice. warranty will not be voided if you service your car outside of a dealer. It will void your warranty if you don't service your car at all.

      I use the dealer as car is new and they have a really good locked price servicing schedule. When that finishes, I'll take it elsewhere.

      • CalmLemons on 19/06/2023 - 19:53

        Yes, getting your car serviced other than the dealer does not void your warranty.

        Even dealers know they cannot say this either.

      • goraygo on 19/06/2023 - 21:36
        -1

        Once your mechanic start using OEM parts, that’s where you will have a hard time to claim warranty. Because they will blame it on OEM parts that cause problems.

        While it’s still under warranty, best to stay with dealer.

        • Thinkswithelbow on 19/06/2023 - 23:35
          -1

          Yeah I don't buy this. The dealer can also blame another dealer you took it too. As long as everything is on paper…if this happens take it to head office and share your experience. They'll have to prove it was an OEM part that caused it…which unless it was is hard to fake.

          • goraygo on 22/06/2023 - 14:03

            @Thinkswithelbow: You don’t need to buy this. As soon as you have a problem, you are in for a long argument.

            Another dealer is not the same, if you have a Toyota and you only serviced by Toyota dealers, they are official Toyota and remember warranty aren’t paid for by dealer. They are paid for by Toyota.

            So if you are using officially dealers, it will be honoured.

  • shutuptakemymoney101 on 19/06/2023 - 22:59

    Had a K-Mart Auto area manager once tell me after I pointed out that they were missing things out on a manufacturer's handbook service "We service every vehicle, we can't always keep up to date the minute a manufacturer changes something".

    This is on a logbook service where I'm sure things change almost everyday /s.

    Take from that what you will.

  • morebunnings on 20/06/2023 - 09:11

    Surprising that there hasn't been an answer to the question.

    Vehicle electronics are regulated & have requirements for independent diagnostic accessability.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics

    Australian requirements:

    ADR 79/01 & 79/02 (Australian OBD standard)
    The ADR 79/01 (Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 79/01 – Emission Control for Light Vehicles) 2005) standard is the Australian equivalent of OBD-II.
    It applies to all vehicles of category M1 and N1 with a Gross Vehicle Weight rating of 3500 kg or less, registered from new within Australia and produced since January 1, 2006 for petrol (gasoline) engined cars and since January 1, 2007 for diesel engined cars.[23]
    For newly introduced models, the regulation dates applied a year earlier - January 1, 2005 for petrol and January 1, 2006, for diesel.
    The ADR 79/01 standard was supplemented by the ADR 79/02 standard which imposed tighter emissions restrictions, applicable to all vehicles of class M1 and N1 with a Gross Vehicle Weight rating of 3500 kg or less, from July 1, 2008, for new models, July 1, 2010, for all models.[24]

    So independent mechanics can check the electronics same as dealers. In terms of electronics being broken, Computers are parts that are ordered and replaced the same as non-electronic parts. Getting parts though can be an issue for independents (may take longer or be more expensive).

    For electric cars however there is no regulation (yet?), so Telsas are DRM'd up the whazoo.

  • payless69 on 20/06/2023 - 10:33

    Get a Bimmer and your ego balloons. A "phallus" extender!
    Stupid people buy a Tesla and kill our climate. Ah no more stalks? Murdoch is always right!

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