Free access to the Women Empowered classes by Gracie University until midnight Sunday March 3 PST (which appears to be Monday 7:00 pm ADST).
Gracie Jiu Jitsu - Women Empowered Online Self Defence Course: Free for 48 Hours @ Gracie University
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Ghost47 on 02/03/2024 - 14:28 gracieuniversity.com (335 clicks)
Last edited 04/03/2024 - 13:44 by 1 other user
Last edited 04/03/2024 - 13:44 by 1 other user
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Indeed! Really good on them for doing this.
This is not something to joke about,
Fair point, taken the joke out.
That right there "she can now learn how to defend herself". Is that how BJJ is sold these days? It has always been a huge commercial success but I thought it had more to do with the belt grading system.
This is wrong though:
- No one would be able to learn how to defend themselves in 48 hours;
- BJJ is not ideal sport for self defence. Imagine rolling on the ground with multiple attackers, most of whom usually have knives. Less than ideal. Street kids would just swarm you and stomp on your head as you wrestle with one.Please don't get me wrong. BJJ is a nice sport and can be a fun passtime, I just don't like it being marketed for self defence. It can help with a self defence - for sure. But like any combat sport it is more of a side effect.
You're right, I've not done even a single class involving rolling around on the ground with mutliple attackers. A real weakness of bjj.
In fact, knives, which as you correctly note most multiple attackers prone to rolling round on the ground with their quarry usually carry, haven't featured at all. I very much doubt anyone at my gym could disarm a javelin atgm or have any idea how to take down an apache with their mind bullets.
These glaring holes in my self-defence strategy exposed, I'm off to krav maga class to learn how to do 100 damage to my opponent by placing my thumb in his eye, and then kick an attacker with a gun in the testicles, for 50 damage and 25 stun damage. Thank god for realistic self defence strategies.
BJJ fun boy? Please don't get too excited.
What self defence system would you recommend for multiple attackers, most of whom who have knives?
Pistol.
Interesting. I was thinking a claymore.
@wittyusername: I think the seriously correct answer is track and field, with perhaps some parkour depending on the location you live in.
@wittyusername: Next best is probably OC spray.
If we have to stick wih bare hands… Anything that does not involve rolling on the ground and crawling to the attacker on your butt: boxing, muay thai, judo, sambo etc. Any sports that involve maximum distance away from the opponent. Wrestling - at least a stand up one with trips and throws.@Musiclover: So when someone rugby tackles you and you're laying on your back what are you going to do about it Chuck Norris?
Cardio.
bikies
Is that how BJJ is sold these days?
From most gyms definitely not in my experience. I've been to a few different gyms (e.g. the Gracie CTCs, other Gracie gyms like Barra and Humaita, VT1 and Aliiance although the last two were trials) and most were more sport focussed where the main thing you learn are sport BJJ techniques (i.e. to compete with other people who actually know BJJ, so lapel chokes, guard breaks, grips etc).
BJJ is not ideal sport for self defence. Imagine rolling on the ground with multiple attackers, most of whom usually have knives. Less than ideal. Street kids would just swarm you and stomp on your head as you wrestle with one.
Well yes, I think most people who have looked into self defence would agree that running away as fast as possible really is the best form of self defence, especially if you're going up against multiple attackers. I don't think engaging in or taking any fight to the ground with multiple attackers is a good idea, nor do I think this course would teach that.
Please don't get me wrong. BJJ is a nice sport and can be a fun passtime, I just don't like it being marketed for self defence. It can help with a self defence - for sure. But like any combat sport it is more of a side effect.
I think there's a big difference between the way sport BJJ and GJJ are taught though. There is definitely more focus on self defence techniques at the Gracie CTCs compared to other gyms. The Combatives course for example emphasises learning self-defence techniques, e.g. how to defend yourself if someone has mounted you and is choking you, if someone is throwing a haymaker, if you're in a headlock etc. None of the other gyms I went to had any focus on self defence at all (which was quite disappointing IMO, because some people want to learn self-defence on top of competing).
You might want to watch some of the videos, they have a pretty clear self-defence aspect to them, e.g. Front Choke Defence (I've never seen this practiced in a sport BJJ gym, i.e. where someone is choking someone else up against a wall), Rear Choke Defence, Weapon Defence straight armlock. The real question is how effective are these techniques, especially if you're under pressure and there are so many variables at play? E.g. in the Trap and Roll hair grab variation video, what if the attacker is punching you in the head with their other hand? You'd either have to put out an arm to try to block the punches, but then that could prevent you from trapping their choking arm, so maybe you'd want to trap their arm as fast as possible before they get too much damage in then trap the foot and roll. But if they're punching you so hard you're feeling dazed you should probably prioritise putting out both arms to defend the punches and try and stop that arm first.
Watching some videos definitely won't make someone be able to defend themself, IMO for that you'll need to practice in a pretty vigorous manner with someone who is actually trying to hurt you, and most of the techniques taught are 1 v 1 focussed so it'd be crazy to go up against multiple attackers if all you've learnt are 1 v 1 techniques. I don't think you even learn how to fight multiple people if you're training karate, muay thai or krav maga, I'd be surprised if gyms that taught those martial arts had training sessions where you get swarmed and try to fight everyone off you.
Nothing against BJJ as sport, I just don't like it being sold as a self defence tool. I would hate someone to think that they are deadly weapons who perfected their self defence after a couple of months in a BJJ gym.
So what do you like to be sold as self defence? Cards on the table, I think self defence is garbage marketing. As to the sport aspect, which of the martial arts you mentioned are not also sports limited by their rule sets?
I very much doubt any neurotypical person who trains bjj for a few months thinks they're a deadly weapon. They're probably more aware than most how vulnerable they are.
@dzhay: No sport should be sold as a self defence tool. But to try to push BJJ as one is just hilarous! Can you imagine how scared a criminal will become once he sees you butt scooting towards him?
@Musiclover: But who is buttscooting in a fight? If you had said 'bjj focuses on groundwork, I think that's a waste of time for self defence purposes since being on the ground is generally a bad idea' I'd have agree that you have a valid argument. However, obviously, someone who plays guard so much that they butt scoot at the gym is obnviously someone who is (a) more proficient at taking down an untrained person than the average (b) better at managing distance than the average (c) infinitely better at keeping top position than the average and (d) because of the others, well place to finish a fight worth having.
More importantly, they're the kind of person who's going to understand their own limitations very well, because they get demonstrated to them over and over again, with something approach full force and speed. Accordingly, in my view, they're probably more likely than the average to avoid a fight that ends with, best case scenario, them choking someone on conscious and having to explain it to police.
@Musiclover: You have no idea.
Everyone can throw a punch, not everyone can control a fight on the ground. Most people have no clue what to do and very little bjj can make a massive difference **assuming that like in real life, not every fight is a 5 on 1 with Knives like you suggested above.
@timthetoolman: I have seen and, unfortunately, had to participate in hundreds of real fights out on the streets, not in youtube. They almost never go one on one. (Well, maybe bar fights but they are usually drunk idiots who both want to fight each other, there is no clear victim in that case). Not always with a knife yes. But you never know if he has a knife until it is too late. It is a baad idea to go on a ground in a street fight. Last one that I had to deal with - a security guard was pinning an offender to the ground whilst his friend stompped on security guard's head 8 times. Do you think his BJJ knowledge helped him? He should not have been in that fight to start with, but he was a big guy and a bit delusional about his grapling techniques. It happens a lot until such a person meets with reality.
Sure, if you are in a team, you need to pin the offender, handcuff him and throw him in a pod - then by all means you can get on the ground and show all of your grapling excellence. But this is by no means a self defence.
@Musiclover: So then learn no mma because you can't take on multiple offenders?
So why carry OC spray or a gun when multiple attackers will have more spray and guns than you? Why do anything?@timthetoolman: You can do anything and everything: swimming, curling, bobsleigh, chess… Any of that or all in combination may save your life in a critical situation. Just don't be under a self-delusion that you study martial arts to protect yourself against criminals. It is simply a wrong reason to do martial arts because a) most of the times it does not work b) those martial arts that sell self defence are usually fake.
On the other hand, many great reasons to do martial arts: physical fitness, mental wellbeing, social activity, or as a competitive sport if you are really into it.
As I said in my comment though, there is a difference between sport BJJ and GJJ (which this course teaches). Sport BJJ is definitely more focussed on sportive aspects (e.g. lapel chokes, guard breaks, grips etc.) which don't really help in self-defence situations because for example why would an attacker have you in closed guard?
I don't think anyone in their right mind would assume they can 100% defend themselves in any fight after a couple of months in a BJJ gym, but at least they'd be more confident that if something does happen at least they know something that could help them get out of the situation, other than running away of course. Running away and screaming as loud as you can is the best self defence.
Here, you might want to watch this video which explains the differences between what GJJ focusses on vs other BJJ gyms. GJJ and BJJ (i.e. sport BJJ) are wildly different with different mentalities (GJJ is focussed on self-defence as part of the curriculum and sport BJJ is focussed on competition).
@Ghost47: You might be right and I haven't trained at a GJJ gym, but I've got to say that the explantion sounds dubious to me and as a piece of marketing reminscent of all the worst aspects of non-sport martial arts.
The people marketing GJJ as being better at self defence have no MMA credibility AFAIK and no meaningful bjj dompetition pedigree in the last 40 years. They also sell blue belts online, if I'm not mistaken, right? Old mate on the right also took $250k as an expert witness to give laughably 'expert' evidence in proceedings against a gym owner in the US. S o, the marketers themselves are questionable, at best (although they'd both rinse me to be clear).
In terms of the product itself, the supposedly distinguishing characteristic (being more realistic in a fight) is not really testable. It boils down to not doing things that are frankly obviously dangerous.
BJJ or sub grappling at an MMA school. Sure, that's got some more self defence credibility than a sports purely bjj school; you can see how it works when punches are thrown. Of course, MMA centric grappling and sport bjj often appear at the same succesful gyms, which are typically not the self defence peddling gyms.
Either way, training bjj is clearly great for your ability to defend yourself, as long as you don't think it's a panacea or that getting into a fight you can avoid is ever a good idea. It is also a far safer option than anything involving getting hit in the head and anything that involves getting repeatedly thrown on or near your shoulder (judo).
but I've got to say that the explantion sounds dubious to me and as a piece of marketing reminscent of all the worst aspects of non-sport martial arts.
Definitely, the Gracie CTCS are well known for their marketing and considered to be "McDojos" by people who go to sport BJJ gyms. And it's true that Rener and Ryron haven't competed in BJJ for a long time, although Ortega is coached by Rener I think and he's competed in MMA and has done alright (although he got bodied by Holloway, Volk etc. IIRC, and in those fights his GJJ wasn't really effective especially when Volk got out of the guillotine). I would say some of the other Gracies focus more on competing than Rener and Ryron (e.g. Rickson and Kron).
They also sell blue belts online, if I'm not mistaken, right?
Last I checked which was 5-6 years ago yes, I haven't checked since then but it likely hasn't changed. I don't know how it works exactly but I think it's mainly online learning on your own or with a partner, then you tape yourself demonstrating the techniques or something. It's a pretty poor way to learn, I don't think anyone would disagree. But if you're living somewhere remote without any BJJ gyms it's probably the only option.
Old mate on the right also took $250k as an expert witness to give laughably 'expert' evidence in proceedings against a gym owner in the US. S o, the marketers themselves are questionable, at best (although they'd both rinse me to be clear).
Now that you mention it I think I remember hearing something about someone dying at a gym a few years ago, either they got choked out by their instructor for too long or their carotid artery got dissected because someone applied a neck choke too forcefully, is that what you're talking about? I can't really remember the specifics.
In terms of the product itself, the supposedly distinguishing characteristic (being more realistic in a fight) is not really testable. It boils down to not doing things that are frankly obviously dangerous.
Testable in real life you mean? I mean unless you get into a fight no self-defence techniques are testable. But the techniques taught in the GJJ courses objectively have more of a self-defence focus, I think that's pretty clear to see.
Of course, MMA centric grappling and sport bjj often appear at the same succesful gyms, which are typically not the self defence peddling gyms.
Yes, true. I tend to keep an open mind but I can see how people who go to sport BJJ gyms only would see the Gracie CTCs as McDojos and more marketing than actual BJJ. Having been to the Gracie CTCs they're definitely more mild, for example you don't roll until you get your blue belt whereas on your first lesson at a sport BJJ gym (e.g. Gracie Barra) they have you rolling at the end of the lesson. And they do it that way because they don't want people to get discouraged, e.g. you go to your first lesson and you roll and your opponent tosses you around like a piece of paper then armbars you forcefully, I mean I think in that situation most people would be put off. But in saying that, there's a beauty in getting your arse kicked and then coming back for more until you submit someone and the struggle in and of itself is a good thing.
Either way, training bjj is clearly great for your ability to defend yourself, as long as you don't think it's a panacea or that getting into a fight you can avoid is ever a good idea. It is also a far safer option than anything involving getting hit in the head and anything that involves getting repeatedly thrown on or near your shoulder (judo).
I agree, it's definitely better than nothing and gives you confidence at the very least. And yes, definitely safer than judo where you can get hurt even when training because someone wants to prove a point.
@Ghost47: I watched the video that you sent. It sounds logical but there is no practical demonstration or a real life test of their words. Remember, many moons ago Helio Gracie also made really bold claims prior to the Kimura fight, but his techniques did not stand a practical test.
Another video that was recommended on youtube after I watched yours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sRFYbuGvVk shows that my assumption must have been not very far from truth.These days, if anyone throws a self defence card on the table experienced guys become sceptical immidiately. And sports are good becuase with all of their limitations it is still a practical test not just some theoretical deadly techniques.
Another idea that I had was: I think it is time to accept that any martial art is great for fitness, self discipline or for making new friends, but it is a very bad idea to become self-delusioned and think that you are doing it for self defence.
I watched the video that you sent. It sounds logical but there is no practical demonstration or a real life test of their words. Remember, many moons ago Helio Gracie also made really bold claims prior to the Kimura fight, but his techniques did not stand a practical test.
Yep, that's true, but I still think it's somewhat valuable to know. And yes Helio got his butt kicked in the Kimura fight, but I don't think he used the techniques taught in this course. I think this course (which is actually the Combatives course with some extra female-specific techniques) was developed in the past few decades. Kimura was also a judoka, I don't think Helio actually knew much judo? I thought he only learnt ground techniques.
Another video that was recommended on youtube after I watched yours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sRFYbuGvVk shows that my assumption must have been not very far from truth.
Far from the truth of the self-defence stuff, or something else? The first guy was definitely bad, and I'm not surprised because the rolling at Gracie CTCs from what I've seen is quite tame compared to sport gyms (you can see it in the background in the video too). I'm not surprised he's struggling because the other guy is clearly good at sport BJJ and knows what he's doing.
I feel like Ryron's reason was a bit weird, I agree that everyone wants to learn for their own reasons but I can tell he's speaking from his own experience because I've heard that as kids he and Rener didn't want to go to BJJ sometimes because it was too intense or they got their butt kicked repeated (or something along those lines). There's some good comments on that video that can help understand their perspective. There is certainly gaps in knowledge of their students I would say because the instructors don't compete I think, and since they don't seem to roll hard, a sport BJJ guy could come in and roll hard and demolish them.
The top long-ish comment in the video mentions the word "killers" and that's the exact same word I've used when talking about differences between gyms; Gracie CTCs don't train killers compared to other BJJ gyms. It's definitely a bit soft (which isn't a great thing IMO because part of BJJ is getting a really good workout in), but there's also demand for that style of BJJ. GJJ vs sport BJJ; the latter will likely win. BJJ has evolved a lot since the early 1900s, look at stuff like 10th Planet (although I think when Eddie rolled with Royler they tied, I can't remember).
These days, if anyone throws a self defence card on the table experienced guys become sceptical immidiately. And sports are good becuase with all of their limitations it is still a practical test not just some theoretical deadly techniques.
Yeah that's fair enough, I can understand why they'd be skeptical. I'm not trying to say this course or GJJ is 100% going to allow you to defend yourself, my point is that they train techniques that are more self-defence focussed (e.g. punch block on the ground) and a main part of it is that they're expecting their students to fight someone not trained in BJJ.
Another idea that I had was: I think it is time to accept that any martial art is great for fitness, self discipline or for making new friends, but it is a very bad idea to become self-delusioned and think that you are doing it for self defence.
Yeah, fair enough. I still think that if someone knows some techniques that they'd still be in a better position to defend themself compared to if they didn't have any knowledge at all, whether it be in sport BJJ or GJJ.
Can I get an edu email with this?
Props for popularising a sport in an era of bullshito but the family legacy of super wealthy fascism, bullying, fight fixing, cheating, misogyny and racism should not overlooked. jIm always bemused by people that consider them semi divine.
Thanks for bringing this up. I had no idea.
Looking into it, the Gracie family’s history includes Helio’s well documented links to the Brazilian fascist movement Integralism during the 1930s, right up to Renzo Gracie quoting Heinrich Himmler on Twitter and promoting the far-right populist Bolsonaro government more recently.
yeah, Big supporters of Bolsonaro.
Best way to win a fight is by 400m.
Sure you may (profanity) up old mate with a nice meaty heel hook, but the Boiz around the corner will stomp your head in.
Just learn stomp head defense.
Lol. Bite the achilles. 300 damage. Too deadly to train, of course.
Ever since I read the story about a BJJ expert, who got shot in the head, trying to disarm a robber in Brazil I have always been cautious when it's recommended as a self defence system.
https://jiujitsutimes.com/jiu-jitsu-instructor-killed-trying…
I learnt the first rule of self defence is not take unnecessary risks and be vigilant. If you can get home safe without resorting to confrontation, take that option first.
The first rule of self defence is that 'self defence' is nonsense. There is literally no system that can reliably teach you to safely disarm someone with a gun. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of it.
So your theory is that you're only ever at risk from gun-toting eejuts - thankfully very rare in this country - and you can't learn strategies to deal with other physical threats? Don't know what this "university" (lol) teaches but for starters credible self-defence educators will invariably include de-escalation strategies, as shellshocked suggested above.
@Igaf You may have misunderstood me because of my overdose of sarcasm at various points. I strongly support bjj. It's fanastic, especially for women and girls and (smaller guys). It should be taught in schools. Everyone should try it, in person, in a friendly gym surrounded by supportive people.
What I oppose is rubbish claims about self defence, as catalogued above. 'Self defence' and traditional martial arts should be regarded as forms of adult role play or dancing. Understood that way, they're harmless, just like old men setting up oversized train sets (i.e. as long as they don't think they're real trains).
I think that bjj is the best martial art to train in Australia, including if you're interested in self defence (subject to the proposition that running is always better). This is because:
1. bjj is safer to train than the realistic alternatives such as judo, wrestling, boxing, muay thai etc.
2. unlike 'self defence' systems, bjj and those arts listed in point 1 are actually combat proven.
3. bjj has fared extremely well against all other arts listed at point 1 above. I think its so succesful that you can say its superior 1 on 1 to other arts, acknowledging however that it is just as limited as the others, with the ground focus a particular weakness/vulnerability in some self-defence scenarios (being the types of scenarios you definitely need to run from, in my view).If you train bjj, you'll get fit (good for running) and strong, relatively. You'll probably make some friends. You'll enjoy it (or you wouldn't be doing it). You'll also get a very realistic and effective way of defending yourself in some situations, and a visceral understanding of your own limitations that should serve you well generally. At that point, you'll likely agree with most of my points above.
As for de-escalation etc, I mean sure, great to think about particularly if you can't run for some reason. I'm not sure if it's something you can really train..? It seems to go hand in hand with 'Reality Based Self Defence' systems, which makes it dubious in my view.
good on them