First Rule of OzBargain: Do Not Talk about OzBargain

pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 14:25

So something that's come to my attention is that if you post a deal and put a reference to OzBargain's own automated referral system in the deal post, then that is breaking the rules and it will be removed.

I've been having a discussion with a mod about it, and they are steadfast that talking about OzBargain's own referral system in a deal post, breaks OzBargain's rules.

Does anyone else find that ludicrous? And think this should be changed?

I understand that if someone is trying to slip their own referral into a deal description then yeah that should be removed, but a link to OzBargain's own referral system?

And isn't the deal post description the best place for OzBargain's referral pages to be put, as that's where people look first and will actually see it?

Site Discussion

Comments

  • freefall101 on 11/05/2024 - 14:33
    +2

    There's always a big box added with the referral link process, what's wrong with that?

    • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 14:43
      +1

      Not in this deal there isn't: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/844767

      The mod removed the reference to the OzBargain referral page saying it's solicitation.

      • freefall101 on 11/05/2024 - 14:52
        -1

        Way to make a mountain out of a grain of sand. Why not just write that, there's a problem where a third party referral doesn't go in the main post?

        • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 15:04
          +1

          It's an odd rule to have that you can't mention OzBargain's own referrals on a OzBargain deal post, and they consider that as soliciting as it's "drawing attention to the referral system".

          • freefall101 on 11/05/2024 - 15:22
            -2

            @pixxelpusher: Not really, it’s a rule you can’t link to a referral (no matter what it is) and the system usually handles referrals itself. 99.9% of the time that works perfectly, so the rule is fine.

            This is one single edge case post and you’re making out like it’s some huge problem. The solution is just post in the comments, or OzBargain setup a proper third party referral system

            You’re trying to make out this is much more than it really is.

            • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 20:18
              +2

              @freefall101: I don't think I am. I fully understand not posting personal referrals as that's common sense. What's not common sense is not being allowed to point to another official page on OzBargain where a referral system is kept and not even allowed to mention the word referral. That to me is odd. It's all part of the same community, it's not talking about other websites or for personal gain. How does it harm anyone?

              And why have it in the comments? That's just frustrating for a member to have to go through all the comments to find relevant info. And then you have the case of multiple members all posting the same information in the comments, which should be in the deal description. To me it makes more sense if mods take all relevant info out of comments and put it up in the description, not the other way around.

              So then you'd have to say that talking about referrals in the comments is also kind of breaking the rules as well isn't it? as why then allow it in the comments and not in the description?

  • spackbace on 11/05/2024 - 14:38

    What post? This one hasn't been altered as such, and besides that you haven't had any posts removed…

    • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 14:44

      Not talking about my own deal posts. Simply a discussion I've been having with a mod who's stating that any reference to the referral system in the deal post is breaking the rules.

  • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 14:42
    +1

    It's a general question about posting links to OzBargain's own referral system in deals. This apparently breaks the rules.

    But specifically it's about this deals: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/844767

    The mod removed the link to the OzBargain Meta page, citing that it was "solicitation"

    • payton on 11/05/2024 - 15:39

      Before this rule was in place, some people were posting deals mostly to highlight their own referral link, then wrote some flavour text to entice ppl to use their link instead of the randomizer. The OP of those posts exploited the generosity of people who didn't know any better.

      As you can expect, the deals themselves were not that good or just repeats of an existing deal.

      Also, congrats on earning a Pass grade on Clickbait 101 course.

  • askbargain on 11/05/2024 - 15:02
    +5

    damn wasn't even suggesting their own referral. mods overstepped.

  • AustriaBargain on 11/05/2024 - 15:15
    +7

    I didn't even know OZB had a referral system.

    • Mechz on 11/05/2024 - 15:48
      +5

      Because it's illegal to mention obviously.

  • Moderatorscotty on 11/05/2024 - 16:01

    @OP — didn't we already sticky your comment that link to the random referral generator as the first comment of the post?

    First of all, this is from the perspective of rule makers — we much prefer making simple blanket rules than rules with lots of conditions and exceptions (although OzBargain's deal posting guidelines are way complicated than they should be, because of all the users trying to find loopholes to game the system over the last 18 years). The reason why we do not allow users to link to OzBargain's referral system (and remove them as "referral solicitation") is because the random picker has a bias towards OP's own referral code/link (5 times more likely to be picked, capped at 50%). If OP mentions the randomised link in the deal description, it would be similar to mention his/her own referral code/link, which is not allowed.

    However in the Meta Quest 2 / Amazon case you mentioned, the grey referral box is not added because the primary store of the deal is not Meta. No, we don't want to make an exception to overall governing rules, so the mention is removed from OP's description. However we also understand the usefulness, so your comment was promoted to the top.

    These should have already been explained to you in the TWAM, but you still decided to make a forum post, and the title is totally misleading.

    Mods have literally discussed these referral issues in OzBargain's staff meeting last week. In fact referral related issues are often discussed due to how much abuse and how many users are trying to game the system, to a point that we have considered removing this all together multiple times.

    • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 17:35
      -1

      You did sticky the comment, only after I questioned the removal of the official referral link in the deal.

      But that's not really the issue, it should be in some way allowed in the deal. If that means the website code needs to be updated to allow for the automatic referral generator to also be product based, then see it as a feature request. But if it is simply mods not wanting to manually add that grey box to deal posts, then that's concerning.

      But for now, it's simply logical to be allowed to post to another page on OzBargain where the automatic referral generator is kept. Not even being allowed to mention it in a deal post doesn't make any sense to me.

      Isn't the automatic referral generator random? Meaning every time someone clicks on it on any deal page (I'm not just referring to this case) they're getting a random referral link? Isn't that the point of it?

      So in this case, when clicking to here: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/deals/meta.com how is that biasing or benefiting the OP? It would be exactly the same as clicking the big grey referral box directly, as that's basically where that link takes you to. I can't see how anyone is gaming the system by posting a link to the official Meta page on OzBargain.

      • Moderatorscotty on 11/05/2024 - 19:34

        it should be in some way allowed in the deal … Not even being allowed to mention it in a deal post doesn't make any sense to me.

        The rule that the mods collaboratively came up with was — a blanket case that OP cannot mention the random referral in a deal post, due to the reason I have mentioned above (prevent people from gaming the referral system). Once a rule has been set up it's enforced, and allowing an exception can complicate things, which we do not want. Well, we did compromise — no mention of referral in the deal description (as outlined in the rules), but comment containing a direct link to the randomiser gets promoted to the top. What's to complain about?

        As you can tell the referral box is store based, not product based, and that's automatically included on the page for deals that are linked to those stores. Moderators have no access to the code that displays the referral box from related stores thus cannot just "manually add that grey box".

        I am saying it again, when the mods decided on the rules, we decided to be "no mention of referral at all" because of people finding loopholes & gaming the system. We too don't want TWAMs from others asking why some cases are allowed and some aren't. Yes, clicking on the "random" link on the Meta referral box gives equal chance to all the referrers in the pool as it's not linked to a specific post. However we don't want to make that an exception to the rules.

        • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 21:13
          -1

          OP cannot mention the random referral in a deal post, due to the reason I have mentioned above (prevent people from gaming the referral system)

          I don't buy this, as how is it possible for another page on OzBargain to know who's on it and who sent someone there? I doubt it does, so it wouldn't know at all that the OP put a link in the deal that then took someone to that other OzBargain page that has the random referral generator on it. So explain to me how someone posting a deal can game it and benefit through that process?

          the referral box is store based, not product based

          This is only something that became apparent to me through the discussion, it wasn't obvious at all it was that limited. Because to me it makes sense to be able to have it on a product basis as well and have the ability to add it manually either by a mod or even better when someone is posting a deal. It's functionality that the website should have (and I honestly thought it did, because it just makes sense).

          Yes, clicking on the "random" link on the Meta referral box gives equal chance to all the referrers in the pool as it's not linked to a specific post

          This actually goes against your first sentence saying that it gives the OP a bias and they game the system by it. But as suspected it is equal and fair to use the official OzBargain pages for the referral generator, and nobody is gaming anything, so no rule should be broken by linking to it. That's essentially what I think needs to be reviewed.

          Sure it could be added by someone through the comments… but again, if it's allowed in the comments why not just allow it in the deal description? Makes no sense as it's the same link pointing to the same page. But it's a lot cleaner and more accessable to just have everything in the description than multiple people posting the same info through the comments. If mods are going to be interacting with a post it makes more sense they took all that info and put it up at the top of the page with the description so all relevant information is in the one spot, and it's all quick and easy to reference.

    • Switchblade88 on 11/05/2024 - 19:12
      +1

      the random picker has a bias towards OP's own referral code/link (5 times more likely to be picked, capped at 50%)

      Really? That's interesting, I don't remember reading this anywhere on the site at all - I'd always assumed the OP would have had an equal chance as anyone for a referral credit.

      • Moderatorscotty on 11/05/2024 - 19:36

        Previously we have two links in the referral grey box — OP's and "random", because we do want to reward the user that posted deals. However that gets abused and we changed to a single "random" link but OP's code/link gets higher chance of getting picked (between 10-50%).

    • AustriaBargain on 11/05/2024 - 20:51

      Could there be a way to make it so if you post or link to a deal then your name gets removed from the OZB referral pool for that particular deal? Or is that like programming a cannon to kill a mosquito.

  • iforgotmysocks on 11/05/2024 - 16:12
    -5

    OzBargain? More like People’s Democratic Republic of Bargains amiright OP

  • Moderatoralvian on 11/05/2024 - 16:24

    What pixxelpusher chose to not disclose in this discussion is the text that accompanied the link to the referral system.

    also seems to be often mentioned in the comments but you can earn referral credit if you join through someone else's referral (they get credit too).

    This type of text is specifically mentioned in our guidelines as something that should not be used. pixxelpusher is of the opinion that this should be allowed because "soliciting by definition is someone giving out their own personal referral code, which is not happening here".

    Do not solicit referrals by any means in your posts (e.g. asking users to PM you, drawing attention to the referral system, or linking to your own deal posts if you are in the OzBargain referral system for that merchant).

    We disagree with pixxelpusher's interpretation of our guidelines but we agreed that https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/844767 was exceptional, because the product-based referral system for Meta.com did not appear for a Meta Quest deal on Amazon Australia.

    And isn't the deal post description the best place for OzBargain's referral pages to be put, as that's where people look first and will actually see it?

    Unsatisfied that we already pinned his comment to the top of the comments section and we added a direct link to Meta Quest referral randomiser, pixxelpusher is advocating for something different here. He wants reminders to join referrals be permitted on every deal that has an available referral program. He appears to be also asking for the grey referral box to be abolished, and the referral randomiser link and the details of the referral program to be inserted into the deal description proper.

    • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 17:17
      -4

      It makes complete sense that the grey referral box should be allowed to be put on any deal post that it is relevant to. That is currently not the case as we see here.

      What's becoming clear, is that it seems like the website has been coded to only show the grey box on a store basis, not a product basis. I feel that should be changed.

      If that can't be changed, then yes I do see the rules should be changed to allow posting a link to another page on OzBargain where the referral generator is kept, as that's just logical and does the same thing as what the grey box would be doing. I never said that the grey referral box system should be abolished. I'm pointing out it's not working as well as it should be, and in those cases Mods should allow the direct link in the deal.

      • alvian on 11/05/2024 - 17:53

        It makes complete sense that the grey referral box should be allowed to be put on any deal post that it is relevant to.

        This is contrary to what you want though. To paraphrase you, "the best place for OzBargain's referral pages to appear is in the deal post description," and therefore a grey box appearing separately from the deal post description is not the best place. Accordingly, the contents of the referral box should be placed within the deal post description to achieve "the best place".

        the website has been coded to only show the grey box on a store basis, not a product basis

        This is correct because almost all referral programs are offered to entice new customers to purchase from a specific store, but not to purchase a specific brand. Meta is exceptional in that regard. If we code for brands, then the correct referral programs will never appear correctly for the stores, with the sole exception of Meta.com. You want us to break referrals for all but one store.

        I do see the rules should be changed to allow posting a link to another page on OzBargain where the referral generator is kept, as that's just logical and does the same thing as what the grey box would be doing.

        And in this instance, you saw we broke our rules to do just that. What you want now however is for the rules to be thrown out because they didn't work once.

        • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 22:10
          +1

          The thing is when you paraphrase you remove context. And you know very well what the context is as it was a simple request.

          It's not contrary at all, the grey box is already part of the deal description, that whole top area of a deal post is the description area and the grey box exists within it. My point is that in this case it's not showing. But you already know that. The part you're paraphrasing from is me recommending that referral links in cases like this are allowed to be posted in that space as well. But again you already know that, I've never said once to remove anything from the website, but to add more functionality especially when your own coding is lacking. The suggestion I made was pretty simple.

          If the big grey box isn't automatically added to a post because the website is limited in its functionality, then the next best and reasonable option is for a link to be added to the description that quickly and easily takes a member to the referral generator page on OzBargain.

          Even better, have the website updated to allow for the manual addition of the big grey box to any post, either by a mod or when someone adds a deal. That way it's more versatile.

          You want us to break referrals for all but one store.

          No I never asked for that. I simply asked for a link to be added to a post. I do ask for the rules around this to be reviewed when the link is pointing to another page within OzBargain. It's already established in another reply that these pages on OzBargain are safe and nobody is gaming or personally benefitting from linking to them (or talking about them for that matter). The rules are archaic, pointing to an earlier time when an OP's own referral could be part of the process, but now it's totally random and no-one unfairly benefits.

          This isn't the only instance, there are other instances where this applies.

          • alvian on 12/05/2024 - 00:43

            @pixxelpusher:

            the grey box is already part of the deal description

            No it is not. Go to the deal submission form and one can easily see the referral box is not part of the deal description.

            A very simple solution is to remove Meta from our referral system because in your eyes we are unable to satisfactorily serve its needs within the confine of our rules, even with the exception already granted.

            This isn't the only instance, there are other instances where this applies.

            What other products have referral programs that operate independently of the store?

  • localhost on 11/05/2024 - 16:31
    +8

    First Rule of OzBargain: Do Not Talk about OzBargain Premium Membership

    • Switchblade88 on 11/05/2024 - 19:13
      +2

      That explains the lack of Eneloop deals being posted!

  • Tee Rex Arms on 11/05/2024 - 17:02
    -2

    Just remove referrals altogether ffs

  • plmko on 11/05/2024 - 18:44

    Can't post referrals nor talk about them but you can link to a product through a referral link.

    Ozbargain has really gone to the shitter

  • SnowDragon on 11/05/2024 - 20:36

    Tldr your entire post but last time I talked about ozb and recommended it, the guy was like "nah sounds like a scam" as if I was talking about Click Frenzy or something. Tried to say how it's a community of bargain hunters but nah, it's a scam.

    • pixxelpusher on 11/05/2024 - 21:28
      -2

      In all honesty my initial question to the mod was quite basic as I assumed the link was removed by error (I thought perhaps by a bot). But the more the discussion went on, the more my mind was blown as to the bizarre rules around referrals and talking (or not talking) about them. Especially linking to another part of this website, that's part of the community. It's something that everyone on here has equal access to, but speaking about it is against the rules? It's something that I've never picked up on and I've been on this site for over a decade. The rabbit hole goes deep it seems (I actually find it all quite funny).

  • Xistn on 11/05/2024 - 22:37
    +1

    And here I was thinking which bar we brawling under….

  • pantsparty on 12/05/2024 - 09:15

    Honestly who cares. Browse this website, find some good deals, enjoy your purchases and savings, go live your life.

  • Savas on 12/05/2024 - 09:53
    +2

    i'm a little bit confused that you can post referral deals but you can't reference them in other deals ?

    they only referenced the deal with no link… but even if they did link, I thought the bias towards OP's own referral code/link was only activated after 25 upvotes to ensure that poster only get rewarded when they post good deals.

  • spychiatrist on 12/05/2024 - 14:14
    -4

    It's the deal posters that make Ozbargain money. Time for Ozbargain to give a cent or two for every deal posted like cashback. And add a dollar or two for every affiliate deal posted which results to a purchase.

    • Clear on 12/05/2024 - 14:16
      +1

      OzBargain rewards $150 to those who get member of the month. Usually for things like most voted deal, quickest to front page and so forth. It certainly leads to a lot of competitiveness and bashing between some users.

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