Unreasonable Lifespan of a Washing Machine - What Would You Do? Throw Good Money after Bad?

nowindex on 17/02/2015 - 23:30
Last edited 24/02/2015 - 16:29

I have a 3 year old Fisher&Paykel front loader that is out of warranty and I paid over $800 for it. It stopped working, so I called a licensed F&P repairman out ($130 call out fee, plus any parts). He's told me the motor is gone and that with the price of a new one to come from Europe, it would cost me nearly the price of a new top-loader (which is easier and cheaper to fix, according to him).

I contact F&P who ask me if there are any current models I'd be interested in, but the only ones that can fit are top-loaders and don't clean well according to Choice.

So, now I've spent near $1K and my clothes are not getting cleaned

My options are (according to the customer service person):
1. Buy another F&P machine that I don't want, "pro rata" through their customer service
or
2. Maybe F&P will help pay for the repair of the motor

I don't think 3 years is a reasonable life span for a washing machine, but I also know I cannot demand my money back from the company. I don't like that all of F&P's options for me involve me spending more money with them for something that should still be working if it weren't a lemon.

Note: New parts have only a 1 year warranty and if anything else goes on the machine (which seems likely from the reviews I find) then I'm out of pocket again to call the repairman out.

What would you do?

—UPDATE—
They are offering me the top-loader pro-rata for $100. This includes delivery and taking away the broken one (which becomes their property). I was looking at another machine and Harvey Norm was the best price I could find with delivery and disposal of the old one being an added $75 (yes, I checked appliancesonline and HN was still better even with delivery added).

So I figure, this is a new machine with 2 years warranty (3 with an extra year of warranty from the credit card) for $25 more dollars.

As for the 10-year motor guarantee, the customer service lady said she didn't think my broken machine would have the 10 year motor guarantee while the new machine would. I don't know if this guarantee is worth the paper it is printed on since the quality of F&P seems to be slipping, but if the new machine works for a couple months and I sell it to get something better, at least I'll have some clean clothes.

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Comments

  • Diji1 on 17/02/2015 - 23:42
    +3

    Ring Consumer Affairs, they may make a judgement call in your favour (but it's down to what is considered "reasonable expectation" or something like this. I don't know if 3 years if reasonable or not though, factors like how much you paid come into it.

    You have nothing to lose by trying though. Warranty time doesn't matter.

    • Cheeper on 18/02/2015 - 00:19
      +1

      Consumer agencies can only contact the retailer and attempt to negotiate a settlement.
      They have no power to make a judgement and the only way you can get that is by taking the retailer to a tribunal and try your luck.
      As an added bonus… you pay for the matter to be heard.

      • Diji1 on 18/02/2015 - 09:34

        Um what's the point of the tribunal then if it's powerless?

        • emibel19 on 18/02/2015 - 21:24
          +1

          That's not what he said.

        • Cheeper on 18/02/2015 - 23:53

          @emibel19:
          LOL… thanks for that emibel… could not believe the question for a while LOL

        • Diji1 on 20/02/2015 - 20:33

          @emibel19: Well he said they have no power to make a judgement when I have yet to have a case where I've called Consumer Affairs and they've ruled against me. Seems to me like retailers listen to what Consumer Affairs says …

        • emibel19 on 20/02/2015 - 21:27

          @Diji1:

          I don't think that's what xywolap said either, although I'm having trouble understanding what your point is.

  • endotherm on 18/02/2015 - 00:05
    +10

    I would say an $800 washing machine is expected to last longer than 3 years, so you should be able to take advantage of the statutory warranty. Warranty periods on replacement parts can be quite different than the warranty period on the whole machine. How long was the original machine's warranty?
    http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web…

    For a layman's explanation of the law and your rights under the Australian Consumer Law, try watching "The Checkout" on ABC, or on youtube. They have pieces on warranties, consumer rights etc. These are probably relevant:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrxxzsaBkC4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE8BB-ioNRw

    Additionally, if your motor has failed it is usually covered under your home contents insurance under "motor fusion", which is a fancy way of saying the motor burnt out. After paying the excess, you will probably only be a couple of hundred out of pocket, with the insurance paying for the replacement motor that costs the same as a new machine. They will pay for the diagnosis of the failure and the repair of fitting it. Check with your insurance company to see what you are covered for and if it is worth it. I'd still be pursuing plan A with Fisher&Paykel first, and getting them to pay for it all.

    • travelwiz on 18/02/2015 - 13:38
      +1

      insurance is fine, but if you have even a $200 excess (many people have bigger excesses) then you won't get much back from the insurance company & your premium WILL DEFINITELY go up when renewal comes around.

      Insurance is not much good for small claims like this.

  • inherentchoice on 18/02/2015 - 00:19

    Sell it to a handyman?

    I listed on eBay an old broken 5 year old machine worth about $200 if it was working, but it still fetched $100. I clearly stated the symptoms and what didn't work and added the keywords 'broken, parts, repair'.

    When the buyer came he had a large trailer with about a dozen broken washing machines and even tried to sell me a repaired one.

    However that was probably quite different to your situation as I think the motor was fine and the man asked if I had checked the belt inside as it may have just become dislodged. Oh well too late I had already sold it to him.

    Actually that was when I was living in Brisbane maybe I could dig up his details if you really wanted. Or just list on Gumtree I'm sure someone will contact you.

    • nowindex on 19/02/2015 - 22:50

      I'll probably just put out on the kerb and let the scavengers get it if I'm going to replace it. I can't be bothered to make a listing and organise pick up.

      • inherentchoice on 19/02/2015 - 23:52

        Wouldn't a gumtree listing be easier than your current negotiations to get them to fix/replace it?

        I would dare say a handyman might pay a few hundred for it. The broken one I sold for $100 only cost $300 new…

        • nowindex on 20/02/2015 - 18:18

          It probably would be easier than dealing with F&P, but I'm still hoping there's some worth in the brand.

  • RockyRaccoon on 18/02/2015 - 03:41
    +9

    According to F&P website

    Warranty on a Front loader is

    10 year Direct Drive Motor
    2 year comprehensive manufacturers warranty

    So they are telling you it's the motor, so it should be under warranty. And you should get a refund on your call out fee you paid as it was within the warranty period. And the new motor should be covered for the life of the original 10 year warranty

    Yes you may have to wait for the part.

    They are in a sense admitting their "liability" for the repair, why would they offer you a prorata price off a new unit. If there is no warranty there is no prorate needing to be offered. I think they are trying it on. Probably a model they have had service issues with. Google the model, you should find details on its warranty period as well.

    Front loaders wash better than top loaders. Choice is right but really top loaders do a reasonable job, we have had top loaders for twenty years and I cant see any clothes that I perceive as dirty. They are faster washers and are less complicated. They can be kinder on clothes.

    Front loaders use less water and more compact.

    But unless they exchange at no charge why do this (unless the part may take a long time to arrive)

    If no satisfaction from the company call consumer affairs

    • [Deactivated] on 18/02/2015 - 13:34
      +1

      That's what I was thinking - the motors usually have a longer warranty.

      If their repairman is saying it's the motor then contact them and let them know you expect them to honour their advertised warranty on the motor, and that you don't expect to be out of pocket on a three year old machine of theirs.

      I personally would also be mentioning (in a non-threatening way) that you are looking forward to giving them a glowing review for their customer service and warranty on ALL product review sites. And then follow through when they stump up. They can assume that the opposite will happen if they don't, you don't need to spell it out to them.

  • pjetson on 18/02/2015 - 12:06
    +1

    Are you handy at all? I've had a F&P washing machine for about 20 years, and the motor has "failed" twice. The problem each time was exactly the same - an open circuit connection on the motor.

    The first time it failed, the service guy said it needed a new motor, but I asked to have a look at it first, and found a broken copper terminal within a few seconds. The service guy looked very embarrassed. I soldered the broken section back together and the guy put the motor back in, and it worked fine for about another five years, when the same thing happened again. I didn't call a service guy that time, I just opened it up and fixed it myself.

    • nowindex on 19/02/2015 - 22:47

      Unfortunately, I'm not handy at all. I'd have to get the repairman out again to diagnose exactly what has failed in the motor, and I'm not sure I'm game to pay another $135. The repairman didn't even need to open up the machine to diagnose the problem.

  • raffaharley on 18/02/2015 - 12:10

    Just keep in mind that there may be wear and tear clauses. For example the manufacturer could always say that you have used the machine for three years non-stop. Hopefully there are serial numbers on the motor that match the machine, and wear / dust on the stators /rotors / bushes / bearings will indicate normal usage.

  • RockyRaccoon on 19/02/2015 - 07:54

    It's disappointing that someone comes here to ask for help with an issue and after some pretty good insights by people, there is NO feedback.

    What a waste.

    • nowindex on 19/02/2015 - 12:28
      +1

      I'm still dealing with the the F&P people. I'm following your and YTW's suggestion and seeing what is on offer, but I haven't heard back from them yet.

      My husband says I should just give up and buy a new machine from a different company, but that doesn't feel right to me. When I have a result I'll post back. I've been giving votes to suggestions I find helpful, but I don't know what's going to work for me in the end.

      I've asked how much they want me to pay for the top loader. Going by their FB page, their customer service isn't great, but people complain more than they praise in any situation.

      I haven't rung up Consumer Affairs yet because I'm seeing if we can come to an agreeable solution. I've stated that I've already shelled out near $1K for a machine that is busted and have asked how much more they expect me to pay. I reckon that a new machine will last longer than a repaired one as a control part seems to be a common failure point from the review website (it is a wh60f60w if you want to know).

      Considering the number of bad reviews on productreview.com, I wouldn't be surprised if I end up following my husband's suggestions but am still hopeful for help from F&P.

      • RockyRaccoon on 19/02/2015 - 14:13

        Thanks for the update and good luck. I think you are handling it well, lets hope they see reason.

        Did they respond to the 10 year motor guarantee point?

        • nowindex on 19/02/2015 - 22:44

          No, they haven't responded yet about the guarantee. Maybe that was what she meant when she said maybe F&P would help pay for the repair after they got a quote. The guarantee doesn't include the call out fee or anything other than the motor it seems.

  • Geewhizz on 20/02/2015 - 07:10

    I would think you should have a win with this, as 3 years in not a reasonable time for it to last. If you do end up having to get another machine though, don't get another F&P. We have had so much trouble with their products barely lasting longer than the extended warranty that we've thankfully bought that we will no longer buy them.

    We have ALWAYS had to use the extended warranty, and then by the time it has expired the appliance is pretty much on its last legs.

    • nowindex on 20/02/2015 - 18:25

      don't get another F&P
      That's why I'm rather hesitant to get the toploader from them. If they give it to me for very little, I'd have trouble saying no, but I don't want it broken in 2 years.

      At the same time, I don't have faith in a repair due to the complaints about the model.

      I would have happily accepted a replacement with the same model, but they don't make them anymore (which is good, since it's a lemon).

      • RockyRaccoon on 21/02/2015 - 09:35

        Keep in mind that Top loaders were made here or NZ (not sure if thats still the case given they closed the NZ and Aust factories, so probably not) , front loaders are made OS probably Italy, so they are effectively rebadged unit.

        F&P Top loaders were quite reliable. Our 7 year old one is still going without any repair, and our previous model which was 13 years old stopped twice due to stuff getting in the pump - 1st time the repairman did it and the second after I observed what he did, I did it.

        The 13 year old was still going at my moms place for another 3 years before she, not the machine died. Its either in landfill or someone else's house.

        BTW according to Wikipedia

        In 2012, Haier has purchased over 90% of Fisher & Paykel Appliance shares.

        Haier Group is a Chinese multinational consumer electronics and home appliances company headquartered in Qingdao, Shandong province, China. It designs, develops, manufactures and sells products including air conditioners, mobile phones, computers, microwave ovens, washing machines, refrigerators, and televisions.

        • Geewhizz on 24/02/2015 - 06:43
          +1

          F&P Top loaders were quite reliable.

          Ours wasn't … see comment above. We bought it based on having seen my mother's in action, same model, everything, yet they were as different as chalk and cheese from the start. Hers is still running fine, years down the track.

        • RockyRaccoon on 24/02/2015 - 08:33
          +1

          @Geewhizz: Thank you for your comment.

          Having had great service from F&P I may have bought a replacement when it finally dies, but now I will carefully consider replacing it with another F&P.

          Given that F&P is now owned by Haier looking at it's reliability record is also important for me to consider.

          cheers

        • nowindex on 25/02/2015 - 16:16
          +1

          @Geewhizz:

          Despite my hesitations and your advice, I'll be getting a toploader from them for $100. I need a washing machine and this is >$500 cheaper than getting a new one and having to bring F&P to the consumer affairs.

          What model did you get? I'll be getting a MW60, which seems like a bigger version of the MW513, so I don't expect more than 2 years out of the thing.

          I wish Haier made better quality products.

        • Geewhizz on 25/02/2015 - 17:15

          @nowindex:

          Sorry, I don't remember what model it was.

          Although I don't think you should be having to pay anything for a replacement, you couldn't do better than $100 for a new washing machine regardless of the brand. Are they giving you full warranty with it?

        • nowindex on 26/02/2015 - 11:13
          +2

          @Geewhizz:

          Yeah, full warranty: 2 years for the worksmanship and parts, then 8 additional years on the motor.

        • RockyRaccoon on 26/02/2015 - 14:20

          @nowindex: Glad to hear that you have some sort of resolution - good luck, lets hope that the quality is better than Geewhizz's experience. Might check with you when and if my F&P dies.

        • nowindex on 26/02/2015 - 15:15

          @RockyRaccoon:

          Can't fault them with the quick delivery. Much faster than I expected it to be.

          Too bad the bloody new one doesn't fit in the laundry cupboard. My fault. I should have found one in real life and made sure the website's measurements actually were true. FML

          How much should I ask for a new and under warranty washer on Gumtree?

        • RockyRaccoon on 26/02/2015 - 19:41
          +1

          @nowindex: Don't do Gumtree - Ebay I think would be better. Others may have better ideas

    • cerealJay on 01/07/2015 - 15:56

      3 years in not a reasonable time for it to last

      God no. 3 years is TERRIBLE. My LG top loader purchased in 2004 finally gave up the ghost just this year. That's 11 years without any repairs or problems in a share house with lots of use. No matter what you think of LG, at least in this instance their top loader machine lasted the distance. Think I paid about $450 new. Great little machine.

      So again, if your brand new washing machine only lasts 3 years, it's a lemon, or the brand is no good. Buy a different brand next time.

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