Tenant Requesting for Small Dog in Apartment

CheapSticks on 14/02/2018 - 22:59

hi

I am in NSW and my tenant has requested for a small dog. Generally they have been good in terms of paying rent, my agent tells me that they maintain the property well. Agent is for us letting them have a dog. I am told that I can't ask for a "pet bond".

My concern is around that both the partners work - though some day from home. Our lounge/dining/hallway has pretty expensive laminate (recently laid) which won't withstand the dog relieving himself - i cant say about scratching surface etc.

Wondering if anyone had any ideas before i say "No"!

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Neimad on 16/02/2018 - 10:45
    +7

    You've obviously got a good tenant as I'd say a lot of other people with pets would not bother asking for permission.

    People talking about dog shit on the walls etc you guys cant be serious?? I don't know what you've seen but dogs generally don't poop all over the walls and most dog owners arent going to treat youre place like a public bathroom and live in filth..

    However, having rented an apartment with a dog I would probably say no. For the owners and the tenants sake. It's much easier with a backyard and much less chance for accidents. Landlords of places with a backyard who decline pets should pull their head in though and stop dictating how people should be living their life..

  • ganymede on 16/02/2018 - 10:48

    Seriously, if the property is that precious to you then don't rent it out. You can't monitor the tenant 24/7, they might have a dog in the property without informing you.

  • PAOK11 on 16/02/2018 - 11:36
    -1

    If they want a dog tell em to buy their own house

  • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2018 - 11:37
    -3

    Anything in possession of an exposed arsehole should not be in the house.

    Disrupts the whole Feng Shui of the thing…

    • geoffs87 on 16/02/2018 - 13:07

      does that mean i shouldnt run around naked in my own house?

      • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2018 - 13:55

        There's an implied exemption for transient exposure, so you should be fine.

        Thank you.
        Thank you very much.

  • Chubbsmcfatflabs on 16/02/2018 - 13:32

    Don't know why you want a Dog , and not be home to look after it.

    Maybe they could rent one for a few hours a day when they want to walk it/play with it.

    I don't understand why people want to keep animals in apartments that barely fit two humans. Dogs are pack animals, not solitary animals.

    Get a goldfish.

    • THICKnSLOW on 16/02/2018 - 15:13

      Actually that's a good idea.

      If OP works odd hours with partner, they could be dog walkers on the side and offer the service of walking/playing other people's dogs while their owners are at work or away. Win win situation.

      Someone should make a phone app to facilitate this, call it Doogber

    • wordplay on 16/02/2018 - 20:28
      +1

      I think part of the problem is potential for accidents and spills on the expensive floor. a glass box full of water that may need changing occasionally could result in a spill on the special floor - which would do thousands of dollars worth of damage. a fish is probably just as bad as a dog in this case.

  • Chochkee on 16/02/2018 - 20:44
    -3

    Have a soul and let them get the dog. Something like 1% of rental properties in Sydney allow pets, it's disgusting, much more developed cities like Vancouver are full of animals and they are much nicer places to be.

    If they destroy the laminate, then take their bond, that's what it's for isn't it?

  • Dreamcast on 16/02/2018 - 22:18

    Y U kick my dog

  • webster on 16/02/2018 - 22:39

    Its not hard, if you dont want a pet there just say no. Its quite simple.

  • ozzpete on 16/02/2018 - 22:40
    +1

    Maybe inrease the rent slightly, not so you get more money, but just exactly enough to cover some sort of insurance for your property . ie. Insurance for if the renters leave your property in need of repairs excess of their bond.
    Surely there must be insurance for property owners renting out their place, whom want insurance coverage for any nasty surprises from renters.
    Ps. Im not on either side of this. Not a property owner, not a renter.
    Im a houso houso !!!! shakes thong :)

  • freshofftheplane on 16/02/2018 - 23:01
    +4

    Having recently relocated to Australia I'm absolutely astound by the amount of intolerance that is showed towards dog owners renters.
    Reading through the comments I'm disgusted by the amount of ignorance some people show.
    Dogs are great house animals and even the worst of them would usually never be able to destroy anything related to a property… and even if that happens - surely it could be replaced! that's the reason people pay bonds.

    I hope these stuck up landlords that think they can dictate the way people live their lives will eventually stay tenantless - and hopefully pending new rules (specifically in Victoria) would make an end to this intolerant phenomena.

    • lord henry on 17/02/2018 - 00:06
      +4

      It's not just dog owners who are treated poorly - it is renters in general. It is that many people who own investment properties seem to think they are some sort of landlord class looking down on serfs.
      The attitude is really unbecoming.
      The problem is made worse by the comparatively wear renter protections here.

      I was once assured by a landlord that they wanted to let the lease lapse into a monthly lease. Then, 2 weeks before the end of the lease I was told I had to move out. 2 weeks to find and move into a new apartment in Sydney.

      • nayfon on 18/02/2018 - 16:57

        2 weeks notice? I don't think that's legal in NSW..

        • lord henry on 18/02/2018 - 17:54

          It is if the lease is going to end at that point.
          I stupidly believed the RA when they said the new owners didn't want to move in.

    • Quantumcat on 17/02/2018 - 18:04

      The $1000 bond would not cover replacing the laminate floor if the dog pees on it. And he isn't allowed to all for extra bond.

    • Baghern on 17/02/2018 - 21:35

      property in Australia cost a crap load of money that's why… bond doesnt always cover it

      I know people who have pets, who would not let pets in an investment property, they understand the smell, they understand 'accidents'… they understand potential noise.

      If you can guarantee pets won't damage, causes issue landlords would be happy with pets.

      As it is legally they don't have to take the risk

  • BartholemewH on 17/02/2018 - 00:49
    +1

    We have two purebred maltese shihtzus that live inside and we are in a house on 1/4 acre. If your tenants want our dogs and they can wrestle them off my wife they can have them.

  • Cerdig on 17/02/2018 - 01:33
    +3

    Houses with indoor dogs smell of dog.

    • Baghern on 17/02/2018 - 21:39
      -2

      incense doesnt take away the cat smell…

  • Yummy on 17/02/2018 - 01:34

    You can't say NO to doggi… erm… CC's.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjG7kDi9swQ

  • [Deactivated] on 17/02/2018 - 01:52
    -2

    Just say "No". If I was a landlord it will be a strict no for ANY pets. Also, don't forget to tell your agent to do an extremely thorough inspection next time to check for dog hairs etc.

    Literally most people I meet who rent are pricks and have pets anyway despite the landlord saying no. It's disgusting and I always hope they get caught.

    • Baghern on 17/02/2018 - 21:40

      have a friend who does that, who also wouldnt let pets if she had an investment property…. people are selfish

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 17/02/2018 - 07:21

    As a fellow landlord HELL TO DA NO - Tenants have way too much rights pets simply break shit, if you can come to an agreement where they triple there bond then maybe you can consider it but otherwise damage to walls, carpet etc can easily out weight the pathetic 4 week bond tenants give.

  • jace88 on 17/02/2018 - 07:54
    +1

    As both a renter and LL with a dog, I know this dilemma.

    Your agent should advise you on what T&Cs you need to add into your lease agreement and ask them to write their commitments to you if you want more. Also helps if tenant provides context to you (eg will dog be toilet trained, how big are they, etc)

    eg. As a renter, I had to get the unit fumigated, everything steam cleaned, etc.. at my expense at the end of the lease. I also had to register the dog and get strata approval from the apartment building, and if anyone complained or BM asked for dog to go, then it has no impact on lease term or the conditions (ie even if they kicked our dog out after a week, I can't break the lease and I still have to fumigate, steam clean, etc).

    Don't forget you can also add more rent/etc to cover damage to furniture/etc.

    I personally also made additional commitments such as installing CCTV/IP cameras (I already had these) and being close-by to come home if anything happened or if BM called about the dog barking (my office was 5mins away). Never had to come home though.

  • save my dollarydoos on 17/02/2018 - 11:23
    +2

    As both a landlord and renter I can appreciate/understand the concern.

    Here's how I would go about it.

    First check out other similar properties in the area. Is there a surplus of rentals in your area?

    If there's a few around in a similar price bracket and you are approaching the end of the lease then you may risk losing a good tenant, and then a vacant property for an unknown period of time - the next tenant could be a nightmare costing you more than a dog ever could.

    While pet bond may not be option in your state, is there scope to organise insurance for pet damage, then renegotiate the lease? Increase rent to pay for insurance? Or make it a requirement they have appropriate insurance?

    What kind of tenants are they? Do they have young children going to school in the area? Or do they have steady jobs nearby?

    If that's the case then they might end up staying long enough to the point where you might consider replacing the flooring anyway.

    While the carpets a different story, if it's the same type of laminate I put down in my place then it's fairly durable - dog pee and poop will clean off easily.

    You also need to remember that it is flooring after all. It is there to be walked on - scuff marks and whatnot from general wear and tear WILL happen dog or not.

    If your tenants move out then it's likely to scuff up more as their furniture is moved out and the new tenants furniture is moved in.

    Those floating laminate floors from memory are just that and are set down in pieces or sections. The advantage here that if somehow a part of the floor is horribly damaged then it's likely you won't need to replace the whole thing just a small section.

    Hopefully you ended up with spare bits and left overs for just that. (Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong) - Find out if this is the case and what a typical quote would be to repair one small section.

    Finally leave the emotion out of it all together, look at what could be the worst thing that could happen financially, if you said yes or no.

    I learned that the hard way myself.

    My experience as a landlord is limited - my first tenant I rented privately (watched the rent come in, organised repairs where needed etc, did the inspections etc)

    It was a rough but friendly family whom my brother vouched for as he was living next door to him at the time.

    I aimed to be a good landlord, its what I wanted to do and I figured that was the right way to go especially with a tenant that knew us personally.

    Unfortunately where I gave an inch the guy took a mile. I said it was ok to hang some photo frames up and stuff. I expected maybe 10 at the most spread throughout the house. There must have been fifty to sixty which made me wonder why I bothered to paint in the first place.

    I said it was ok for a pet or two which ended up being - 2 dogs, 3 cats, aviaries and aquariums with the first two being let loose into the carpeted rooms.

    He was a lazy (profanity) slob and no surprise the arrangement ended messy, he did a runner instead of handing his keys in, did bugger all cleaning and skipped out paying the small amount of remaining rent he agreed to pay after letting him out of his lease early by several months.

    I now rent through a property manager who advised me at every turn. The tenants a single mother with a few kids and a full time job.

    The property manager advised me that she was going to breach this tenant for general untidyness and cobwebs. After my first experience I thought "Is that all?"

    The softy in me came out again, and I objected to the property managers action, thinking about the tenants situation and how hard it must be.

    I knew first hand the cobwebs are difficult as the house is near a bushy area. When I cleaned the place myself I did three rounds with pesticide/barrier spray and a broom to rack up the webs. They were back the next day.

    The property manager reassured me about the whole thing and set me straight.

    Told me to take emotion out of the whole thing or you'll never get anywhere for yourself and that it's possible to be a good landlord without letting yourself be completely (profanity) over.

    So tldr

    Work out the worst case scenarios if you say yes or no, the potential financial impact of each scenario then work out what you are able to do to minimise the financial impact - insurance, request dog stay out of carpeted rooms,request a dog training certificate, renegotiate rent, risk the tenant moving out and gambling on the next one, house being vacant for a period of time, the fees associated with re-advertising and releasing the place, whether you can ask them to re-home the dog if the neighbours start complaining, are you planning to move in yourself the near future etc etc etc

    Then make your decision based on the math/risk and leave the emotion out of it,don't worrying about "brand new floors" unless you plan on moving in yourself in the near future. - they are made to be walked on. If you calculate the costs / maths and it says "No" then you say No. Do the tenants definitely want a dog or just a pet? Would you consider an alternative animal?

    Also: Out of pure curiosity from a fellow laminated floor dude - what laminate did you get and how much did it cost you/how bigs the apartment? If I remember rightly it cost me under $5k to get my large area sqm 4 X 2 house done. This would be in WA however

  • Gauntlet on 17/02/2018 - 11:36

    I've seen humans do a lot more damage to a house than a pet could ever do. I've never seen a dog punch holes in walls and break doors off of hinges.
    Carpet and laminate can be easily cleaned and replaced down the track.
    Don't rent your house out if you don't want people to "live" in it.
    If you have a rental, just accept the fact that it's going to require maintenance.

    • Quantumcat on 17/02/2018 - 18:10

      Difference is, landlord insurance covers malicious damage (human damage) but not pet damage.

  • jace88 on 17/02/2018 - 16:26

    I agree with some of the other comments here - scrutinise the rest of the tenant's application/details (I know they are already there at the moment but either way, think about the bigger picture) and see if it makes sense.

    I like to think my wife and I were in a relatively good position (both full time employed, reasonably decent incomes, working nearby, etc, and also we happened to own other units in the same complex but they were already tenanted hence why we needed to rent) and that's why the LL/agent were willing to allow our dog even though they would generally advise their LL's not to allow pets.

  • A fish on 17/02/2018 - 17:44
    -1

    y u dnt jst sl n gt a diffi rntl prpty

    • Stucuts on 17/02/2018 - 18:27
      +4

      Can i buy an o ….. i think i can solve this.

      Why don't you just say no and get a different rental property?

      • gimli on 17/02/2018 - 21:56

        you win the special prize!!!

      • A fish on 18/02/2018 - 08:49
        +1

        Close enough

        • gimli on 18/02/2018 - 17:20
          +2

          why you don't just sell and get a different rental property

  • rickysmum on 17/02/2018 - 18:13

    Oh dear, I just need a help!!! I recently discovered the tenants have 2 dogs in the house. But they didn’t tell us when they applied for the house. What can I do now?

    • jace88 on 17/02/2018 - 23:24

      If your lease says no dogs then it's a breach. Agent can handle it.

  • gimli on 17/02/2018 - 20:43
    +1

    I would talk to your agent and generally go with them. (if you have a good one).
    I think they usually want to have good outcome for both parties.

    Other thing would be to check with agent what details about the pet they have provided. If they have done there research and understand the risks and precautions they must take I think it would be OK.

    I think you are right to be cautious and to want to maintain your property. If you concerned, I see nothing wrong with saying no.

    • CheapSticks on 17/02/2018 - 21:02

      Very balanced response - thanks

      • gimli on 17/02/2018 - 21:55

        the other thing I am not sure about is how this would affect your choice of future tenants.

        Would you then be obliged to allow pets/dogs with future tenants or would it be a case by case decision again?

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 17/02/2018 - 21:27
    +4

    What ALOT of people forget is that the renter has taken the time to ask for permission - they could easily get a dog and noone would even know. The real estate agent inspecting twice per 12 months …. big deal, anyone can take their dog out for a very long walk when they come.

    The dodgy tenants would just get a dog without asking - this tenant sounds like a good one.

    • Baghern on 17/02/2018 - 21:45
      +1

      Someone being nice, shoudnt change a financial decision.

      As most others have commented, they possibly already got a pet… just wanted to make it official

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 18/02/2018 - 08:19

        I am just pointing out that the OP's tenant appears to be on the better ones ;)

        Did not suggest that "being a good tenant" overrides the rights or wishes of the landlord ;)

    • gimli on 17/02/2018 - 21:54

      i think most tenants are good and reasonable. (But we only hear about the bad ones)

      Just because someone is doing the right think by asking does not mean they should be allowed.

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 18/02/2018 - 08:20

        I am just pointing out that the OP's tenant appears to be on the better ones ;)

        Did not suggest that "being a good tenant" overrides the rights or wishes of the landlord ;)

  • DiscoJango on 17/02/2018 - 22:28

    is keeping a pet goat socially acceptable like keeping a pet dog

    • gimli on 18/02/2018 - 06:53

      Yes

  • snook on 17/02/2018 - 23:28

    I'd like to know if you're going to blame (and then ban) any women in the place from wearing heels? As I hear it, they do the most damage to flooring.

    WHY would anyone lay expensive flooring in a rental property? $60 sqm?? I wouldn't even use that in my own house because I would have totally wasted MY HARD EARNED MONEY!

    Sounds like your first rental to be doing something like this. You're going to lose the floor anyway. If you have tenants that will stay long term and otherwise look after the place, I'd allow one lousy little dog.

    That plastic stuff from Bunnings is the ants pants. Withstands anything. Lay it yourself. Something like $12.50 sqm
    Yes, I have a few rentals. Go cheapest for the best return and ease of maintenance.

    • gimli on 18/02/2018 - 06:55

      Depends on what other property in the area is like.

      Also op already mentioned he was planning to live there until situation changes.

      At the end of the day op is making a nicer property available on the market rather than not caring because it is rental.

  • Jensu on 17/02/2018 - 23:59
    +3

    i don't see a problem with it. if you've been happy with your tenants, then allowing them to have a dog will make sure they (your good tenants) will continue to look after your property for you. Pet owners are very careful tenants who actually care a lot of the cleanliness for the well being of their pets. They're generous when it comes to spending for a lifestyle and maintaining the quality of their environment. As a landlord, I prefer pet owners than family with children under 10.

  • ladybug1 on 18/02/2018 - 02:07

    At some point, the law is going to change all over Australia and people will have a right to keep a pet in their property, as has happened in NSW-generally a good idea for renters'stability and mental health; but at the moment, if you don't want to take a chance, don't. You may lose them as tenants but you should be able to get another one. Remember that if they are careful now though, they will probably still be careful with the dog around, maybe more so.

    • gimli on 18/02/2018 - 06:58

      I don't think you can assume what there skill with pets would be.

      They may not have ever had a dog before for all you know.

      It's really not that hard to be careful, especially in an apartment which usually doesn't need much maintenance as opposed to a property with a garden.

      • gimli on 18/02/2018 - 15:58

        Their

  • sherene on 18/02/2018 - 08:29

    Answer is no way!! Firstly both working no time for the dog during the day. Dog might be locked up in a room, be prepared the dog might chew the walls, pee on the tiles and floor board. Ur house will stinks.

  • shaybisc on 18/02/2018 - 12:18

    Even optimally, indoor dogs stink up the joint. If you are living with a dog you probably can't tell but everyone else can. I don't know if you can de-stinkify after they're gone.

  • [Deactivated] on 18/02/2018 - 13:40
    +3

    I am both a renter and a landlord.

    It promotes goodwill and stickiness from the renter, so I let them have 1 pet (providing reasonable for the property). The renters know that it is hard to get this in another apartment. On the other hand, if even 1 week without the rent being covered, you have to ask if it was worth it.

    As a renter, I waited 6 months before asking the landlord to let me have a very cute spoodle. He asked me to sign a new 12 month lease with this clause added and a $5 rent increase. This worked out well for us both.

    To the OP I would say that insurance/bond should cover if the flooring was damaged. I would say yes if it was a long term tenant who you want to keep. Otherwise you kind of guarantee they'll be looking at alternatives, which they may or may not find.

  • neosin on 18/02/2018 - 14:37
    +2

    If the tenant wants to have kids are you going to say no! you can’t have kids???

    Because kids will do a f@&$ load more damage than a small dog!

    • Chubbsmcfatflabs on 19/02/2018 - 08:56

      Right. So you are saying that children are the same as dogs.

      Will a child play fetch with you ? Yes, until they are 11, then they say they can't be stuffed. Dog 1, Kid 0

      Will a Dog wash your car for $5 ? No. They'll Pi$$ on the tyre though. Dog 1, Kid 1

      Will a Child crap on the carpet / Generally not as they wear nappies, or become house trained. Dogs will crap on the carpet even after they are house trained. Dog 1, Kid 2.

      Can you get your child de sexed ? not legally. Dog 2, Kid 2.

      Will your Dog take you to medical appointments when you are old and frail ? No. Kid 3, Dog 2.

      Will your Child look after your Dog when you are on your 3rd world trip after you retire ? Yes Kid 4, Dog 2.

      I think we see where this is going..

  • donotuse on 18/02/2018 - 17:04

    Tell them NO. If they insist, tell them to move out snd find another place. There are many tenants looking for place to stay.

  • Baghern on 18/02/2018 - 18:34
    +1

    Please update the topic, especially if you find out they already got the dog…

  • nayfon on 18/02/2018 - 19:22

    If they're a good tenant then I'd say yes. If they've been looking after the place for a year already and there are no issues, I can't expect a dog to change that.

    Going through the process of finding a new tenant and then developing that trust can be costly.

    As a tenant (with two cats) and a landlord to a couple with a dog I have no issues with letting pets in the house. In my experience little kids do more damage than pets.

  • [Deactivated] on 18/02/2018 - 22:01
    +1

    We have a number of investment properties and we make extra cash by telling the tenant that its an extra $50.00 per week for each pet and the pet(s) needs to live outside.

    A pet bond is good but you have to return the bond. We rather pocket the extra $$$ then keep the bond.

    4 of our properties has tenant who has a pet and they are happy to pay extra for privilege of having a pet.

    • shaybisc on 19/02/2018 - 07:40

      Holy hounds- gobsmacked!

    • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2018 - 10:10

      You obviously don't live in Victoria.

    • burns13 on 19/02/2018 - 14:54
      +3

      This is why I hate your kind. Greedy blood suckibg Vultures

      • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2018 - 19:00
        -1

        Here are the options
        1) you own your home out right - good for you.
        2) or you rent from the bank for 30 years and live in the banks house until its paid off - good for the bank.
        3) or you rent and pay the landlord - good for the landlord.
        4) or you can sleep anywhere on the streets anywhere in the world.

        Take your pick! Everyone's got a choice.

  • nuclearMC on 19/02/2018 - 13:07
    +4

    I own my own house, but I can't believe the way that many people are talking about renters like they are inmates in a prison and don't deserve any reasonable rights.

    A small, low energy dog will be fine left alone for several hours a day, especially if they are crate trained, or even better if they use a play pen. A scratched floor or minor scent will do little, if no damage to future rental interest, or property value. It's laminate (no matter how expensive) not mahogany. Sure, maybe ask for a pet bond, but losing good tenants because they want a dog, is pretty dumb!

    • Baghern on 20/02/2018 - 21:10

      When you dont own the property that is being rented its easy to look at the nice side…

      People who take the risk, look at the potential downside

  • burns13 on 19/02/2018 - 14:50
    +4

    Allow the dog….geez thank god Im finally Im OUT of the rental market and now a home owner.

    I think NSW has some of the most oppressive attitudes in favour of 'the investor' and give very little value to high quality tenancy. This state is filled with greedy or precious landlords that have an unreal perspective on the rental situation. Managers have their way in my awful experience, violating my rights or privacy without batting an eyelid, Renters are basically treated as glorified house sitters.

    I had a much more favourable experience living in the UK where the renter is valued as something like a customer, provided service for £££ and thats the way it should be. Since I was a good tenant playing by the rules and basically paying off their investment for them.

    Anyway so many people are perpetually stuck in the rental market these days and this will only get worse. Id like to see landlords ease up and give the demonstrably good, high quality tenants some leeway to enjoy their lives a little bit.

  • Pratty on 19/02/2018 - 16:06
    +1

    Put yourself in someone else’s shoes. Have you ever wanted a little dog/animal in your life?

    Look after your tenants and they’ll look after you. If they don’t, that’s what a bond is for.

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