What can I do about my Neighbour's Air BnB property ?

firebucket on 08/06/2019 - 08:50
Last edited 13/06/2019 - 10:52

Hi everyone,

I live in a small block of beachfront residential units on the Gold Coast in Qld. Recently, a neighbour has decided to rent his unit out through Air BnB. He does not live there anymore. Suddenly, we are having frequent issues with extra noise, parties, unruly behaviour, unknown people wandering around day and night and people knocking on neighbours doors asking "how to check in".

I have complained to the Body Corp and owners about these issues who claim there isn't much that can be done. The owners do not seem to care and do nothing to address the concerns of permanent residents.

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on how to combat this ? Do I lodge a complaint with Council, Police, ATO, Air BnB ?

Thanks for any assistance.

UPDATE:

Thank-you everyone for your insightful comments and helpful suggestions ;) They have all been taken onboard.

I will just wait now until I hear back from the GCCC and I will be sure to let you know the outcome of that investigation.

It may very well be the case that they can't take action or shut it down immediately, and I am ok with that.

But what I do know is, the laws will only change when long suffering neighbours stand up to absent investors turning residential buildings into quasi motels and report them to the relevant authority.

If we do nothing, nothing will change.

All the best.

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Comments

  • newbiesh on 10/06/2019 - 17:55

    tell the owner about this, he should have set of rules for the guests, my experience with aribnb is most of the guests like 99.9% of them are respectful to the neighborhoods and rules i think either you're too senstivie about this or he doesnt have his rules pinned.

    • firebucket on 10/06/2019 - 18:11

      It's not just me taking umbrage about the noise. A couple of other tenants have also lodged complaints. And Yes, he has rules about noise, doesn't mean drunk guests follow them.

      • Cluster on 11/06/2019 - 01:32
        +1

        Indeed. You can have all the rules you want, but it doesn't mean A) people will actually follow them and B) even if they do, the next guest arriving tomorrow may choose to violate the laws.

        The problem here is there's no penalty for the AirBnB customer (they'll be gone tomorrow and therefore don't care) and none for the owner either. It's not like police charge a call out free to the property owner when they're called to tell the guest to quieten down. Council can't do anything, and neither can the state government.

        • firebucket on 11/06/2019 - 06:07

          Exactly Cluster

  • Zotech on 10/06/2019 - 18:11
    +10

    Rent the place and install a hidden camera (doesn't have to be connected to anything).
    Next time you see a new airbnb guest, be nice to them and say "I would be careful in there, I think they have hidden cameras installed".
    What happens next is, guest finds camera, reports it to airbnb and police, he gets banned from airbnb and charged by police. That way you never see him or the guests again :)

    • pformag on 10/06/2019 - 18:27
      +4

      that's so evil and I like it.

  • bikboy on 10/06/2019 - 19:23
    +3

    At night, put super glue in the front door key hole and wait for the next renter to have a fit when they can't get the door open

  • 00000000 on 10/06/2019 - 21:16
    +3

    Call Tracey Grimshaw

    • supaderp on 12/06/2019 - 12:23
      -3

      she's too fat to even rock up

  • sunnyc on 10/06/2019 - 23:00
    -1

    You can't ban airbnb as it's unconstitutional.

    • TheBooleanOne on 10/06/2019 - 23:31
      +3

      Care to elaborate on which part of the Constitution?

    • sunnyc on 11/06/2019 - 11:47
      -2

      Idk, its not the word Constitutional but something in the lines that if you do ban it, it means nothing because it can be reverted almost immediately regardless of strata decision

  • AEKaBeer on 11/06/2019 - 08:30
    -1

    Buy the place from your neighbour, use it to store your miniature train collection or your antique felt hats that your had made for you in the late 1800's. You remember, before the great war…

    People have a right to use their property as they see fit. As others have said if it gets too loud, call the council or police to lodge a noise complaint. Seeing "unfamiliar people" is just part of being on earth.

    • firebucket on 11/06/2019 - 12:49

      Sure he can do whatever he wants with his property, I couldn't give 2 hoots. They could even Air BNB it!

      Just so long as it doesn't adversely impact on my life or that of my children.

      Nobody has the right to behave in such a manner which makes the lives of people around them a misery.

      When you live in close proximity to others, you should be mindful of how loud your music is and how loud you are screaming at your drunk mate.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 11/06/2019 - 13:28
        -1

        Actually, they do have long standing rights. Rights to use, enjoy or benefit from their property as they see fit.

        You choose to live in close proximity to others. That's a potential caveat of your situation, you could end up being in close proximity to people you may not like.

        • firebucket on 11/06/2019 - 17:31
          +1

          Incorrect. That's why there are laws against loud noise, parties and offensive behaviours. It's not the people I don't like. I don't know them. It is their noise and behaviour.

        • firebucket on 11/06/2019 - 18:26
          +1

          You really don't know the law if you think that people can do whatever they see fit within their property in a residential area.

          They can't make excessive noise, have a chicken pen, run a brothel, use power tools after a certain time. The list in endless. The problem lies in getting the Police and Council to enforce these laws within a reasonable time-frame.

          • [Deactivated] on 11/06/2019 - 22:06
            -1

            @firebucket:

            You really don't know the law

            Psst.. I'm pretty sure @zeggie is a lawyer.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 12/06/2019 - 12:03

            @firebucket: Non sequitur.

            Making excessive noise is not the same as:

            1. a chicken pen - actually expressly allowed by law in GC; or
            2. a brothel - conditionally permitted based on the planning scheme in GC.

            Feel free to point to anything that grants Police or Council have power to enforce excessive noise against the owner. I can tell you there is none.

            As long as the airbnb property doesn't breach planning or bylaws then Council is powerless. If the property is rented, Police can only issue a fine to the occupant ie. the airbnb renter, after repeated visits and warnings.

            I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that's basically how it is. I've tried to assist as much as possible, thus the quantity of my posts here.

            • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 12:35

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I feel like we agree on this. I am happy for them to remain there provided they do not make excessive party noise that could be deemed offensive, and therefore unlawful.

              Furthermore, I am not in favour of any Airbnb listing where the operators have not obtained the correct planning approval – which is often a material change of use – the application fee for which is in excess of $8,000), and the GCCC have the power to penalize those who are non-compliant.

              I am not after any special treatment. I just ask that my neighbour behaves in a lawful manner.

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 12/06/2019 - 12:43
                -3

                @firebucket: You missed the key point. Your airbnb neighbour is likely exempt from requiring planning approval. Most airbnb operators are. I believe it is usually advertised as 4 or less occupants and requires the same safety requirements as a normal rental, ie. smoke detectors, heating (VIC) etc.

                Nothing Council can do if they are exempt.

                If the property is exempt from planning approval, Police can only issue a fine (usually only in extreme cases) to the occupant, ie. the airbnb renter, not the owner.

                I just ask that my neighbour behaves in a lawful manner.

                As annoying as it is, he likely is behaving in a lawful manner.

                • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 12:50

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: That is the reason that I have notified the GCCC, to ensure they do have the correct approvals or exemptions in place. I admit I do not know. If they do, then fine. I agree with you.

                  However, from a bit of research - I do know that to be exempt :

                  1) You must live at the property - They don't and never have.

                  2) You must live within a residential zone

                  3) No impact on the amenity of the area

                  Intuitively, a home-based business cannot present any nuisance to the surrounding area in the form of noise, odour or other miscellaneous annoyance to the area. Additionally, there may be no more than one delivery to the property per day. This is likely on the basis that a home-based business is regulated with the intention of preventing disturbances to neighbouring properties. Further, there can be no more than four guests at any one time, and only one motor vehicle (if any) associated with the business.

                  • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 12:55

                    @firebucket: Quote From a Qld based Solicitor:

                    For those new to the world of Airbnb and eager to join the sharing economy on the Gold Coast, the circumstances differ. Without existing use rights, hosts are under the control of the City Plan. If they reside in a zone that does not permit short term accommodation (such as low density or medium density residential), they will need to apply to the Gold Coast City Council for a Material Change of Use development approval (MCU). With no guarantee of success, and an undesirable price tag in excess of $8,000.00, the prospect of renting out your extra bedroom now seems a lot more complicated than it used to.

                    There is certainly no one-size-fits-all answer for Gold Coast Airbnb hosts. Unless a host is covered by existing use rights, or is in a zone which permits short term letting (such as high density residential), they will need to apply for a MCU in addition to a rental property licence. Whilst the rental property licence itself is free, another important consideration for hosts is how this licence affects council rates. In essence, the minimum general council rates imposed for lots engaged in short term accommodation activities are significantly more than the rates imposed on a principal residence.

                    The local hosting community is unhappy with the Gold Coast City Council’s decision to enforce development application obligations for Airbnb hosts in the area. Airbnb National Manager Sam McDonagh has condemned the move, and in 2016, it was reported that two Gold Coast hosts received show cause notices from the Council after being found letting their properties without the appropriate permits. Whilst at this stage, the figures seem low, hosting an Airbnb without first obtaining the applicable planning approvals opens Gold Coast hosts up to a variety of risks and penalties down the track.

                    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 12/06/2019 - 13:52

                      @firebucket:

                      However, from a bit of research - I do know that to be exempt

                      First link in Google eh? Those 3 criteria don't correlate with the GC City Plan.

                      Quote From a Qld based Solicitor:

                      It is quite easy to copy and paste quotes from Google. Unfortunately those quotes are vague and haven't considered any of what I just posted in my previous comment.

                      For a constructive conversation would you care to share the zone code in which your property is located? Unless you live in 2 particular zones then the previous 2 posts of yours are simply moot points. If you do happen to live in 1 of the 2 particular zones I can show you exactly what your neighbour will be doing to avoid planning permission.

                      • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 14:11

                        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I have been googling and talking to people about this over the past week. Can't see why that would be an issue. You would have had to google to find out that I googled. Soooo.

                        And I believe that the information is very relevant. I live in medium density residential area of the Gold Coast.

                      • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 18:46

                        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: It sounds like you are actually speaking from experience here zeggie. Full disclosure, do you have any interest in short term rentals/Air BNB? I'm still waiting for you to let me know how my neighbour is avoiding planning permission.

                        Also, the Gold Coast is in QLD, so NCAT and VCAT don't really apply.

                        And the Air BNB advertisement that my neighbour has, advertises his unit for 6 persons. Not 4. So that doesn't apply either.

                        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 12/06/2019 - 22:29

                          @firebucket:

                          It sounds like you are actually speaking from experience here zeggie

                          Experience in Council matters and property law? Yes indeed.

                          Full disclosure, do you have any interest in short term rentals/Air BNB

                          Nope.

                          I'm still waiting for you to let me know how my neighbour is avoiding planning permission.

                          Some of us have work :)

                          And I believe that the information is very relevant.

                          Googling a random article to counter my argument is a waste of everyone's time when that article you quoted doesn't even delve into home based occupation, zoning requirements, planning assessment requirements and the fact no state based legislation exists. (pssst. this is how your neighbour is exempt.)

                          ss 6.2.2
                          https://cityplan.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/pages/xc.plan/print.as…

                          You would have had to google to find out that I googled. Soooo.

                          No, I googled your quote to see where you copied and pasted it from as it was clearly not your own insight :)

                          Also, the Gold Coast is in QLD, so NCAT and VCAT don't really apply.

                          Thanks captain obvious :)

                          The reason I haven't posted a QLD citation is that none exist - no OC has taken a matter to a tribunal. At least none that appear to have handed down a decision. Likely because QLD state legislation doesn't exist to rely on and OCs know they have buckley's chance.

                          Again, your airbnb neighbour is likely exempt from requiring planning approval. If he isn't exempt, he can easily make himself exempt if given a useless "Show Cause" notice from GCCC.

                • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 22:47
                  -2

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: The lady doth protest too much, methinks……

                  I guess we will just have to wait and see whether he is exempt or not once the investigation concludes. I will be sure to let you all know either way.

                  And incidently, I did say that they were quotes from others and they are cerainly far more relevent and on point than many of your rambling references to VCAT and NCAT.

                  But honestly, thankyou for your spirited input on the subject, but I think I will wait until I hear further from actual people enforcing the legislation to tell me whether or not they are acting lawfully.

                  Another interesting Google Post is copied below for your enjoyment. And fair warning, it actually relates to the Gold Coast in Qld, not Melbourne, Victoria which has entirely different legislation I'm sure.. Peace.

                  The Gold Coast Bulletin last year reported the Gold Coast City Council had taken the extraordinary step of cutting down key boxes to stop homeowners flouting council zoning laws by subletting their apartments through Air BnB.

                  Tony Kyle, a partner of ABKJ Lawyers, said he had seen an increase in the number of owners being issued with show cause notices by the council.

                  Gold Coast Acting Mayor Donna Gates said Council officers investigate every complaint regarding illegal holiday letting.

                  “I am not aware of anyone who has ignored the letters from council,” Mr Kyle said.

                  “Fines can run into the hundreds of thousands so people either apply for a change of use of their property or stop,” he said.

                  The council was unable to provide the number of notices issued in 2018.

                  Acting Mayor Donna Gates said the City encouraged extra tourism dollars to a point.

                  “The City is committed to finding ways to diversify our economy and ensure that the tourist dollar stays in our city,” Cr Gates said.

                  “However, if an owner wishes to start renting out their property on a short-term basis then they need to make a development application. How a rental property is advertised is immaterial, as someone who is running a business on a site must have appropriate approvals to operate.”

                  “Council officers investigate every complaint regarding illegal holiday letting and take appropriate action according to the outcomes of those investigations.”

                  REIQ Zone chair John Newlands said the prevenance of short-term rentals had not affected the availability of affordable rentals.

                  “Owners of units feel they can earn more though short-term letting in some cases, but a majority of those moving to Airbnb occurs in managed resorts, or existing holiday accommodation.

                  “We haven’t seen an impact on rentals all together but we have seen a growing trend towards more real estate agents managing in the Airbnb space.”

                  Destination Gold Coast and the Accommodation Association of Australia did not return requests for comment.

                  Read the original article here as published on goldcoastbulletin.com.au

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 12/06/2019 - 23:12

                    @firebucket:

                    rambling references to VCAT and NCAT.

                    I think decisions made in tribunals that actually do have state legislation restricting short term rentals are far more relevant that an article in the GC Bulletin lol.

                    until I hear further from actual people enforcing the legislation

                    You entirely missed everything I've typed. There is no legislation. Not in QLD. GCCC have their "City plan". They can only enforce planning rules.

                    The sad thing is you won't get any resolution for about 1-2 years - the predicted timeframe the QLD state government predicts enacting legislation. Even then, they face the same problems in 1-2 years time that NSW and VIC currently have as of right now. No powers to investigate. No powers to do anything but fine someone.

                    I wish you luck. I mentioned earlier - I didn't wish to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm giving you the truth of the situation.

                    Fines can run into the hundreds of thousands

                    All fines are public information. I challenge anyone to find the "fines" that Mr Kyle claims exist. They don't :)

  • THICKnSLOW on 11/06/2019 - 09:07
    +3

    Swear to god there should be a sister site to airbnb called airbnb-neighbour where you can personally critique the guests yourselves.

    Level playing field then.

    Because if you drill down to the cause of the noise it's always the bloody occupants.

  • Dack Smith on 11/06/2019 - 10:19
    +2

    Gotta keep calling the cops, and write bad google reviews.

  • slick7 on 11/06/2019 - 11:55
    +4

    Put up a sign on your door referencing the units who dont care if there's AirBnB in the building.

    For any trouble checking in or fresh towels please see unit 2,3 and 6.

    I think they will soon start to care if they get knocks on the door. If you want to avoid confrontations you can even slide a piece of paper under the door with those details. This is relatively easy to solve if all the other units are onboard.

    • No ONE on 11/06/2019 - 21:45
      +1

      For any trouble checking in or fresh towels please see unit 2,3 and 6

      and if every unit owner does it, it will be more fun. Treasure hunt for the visitors and they will be like f**k it. I am out of here!

  • automated on 11/06/2019 - 14:14
    +2

    Book into the property for the night and sew prawn heads into the curtains and the cushions.

  • echelon6 on 11/06/2019 - 20:01
    +2

    Maybe you should put yours up on AirBnB too.

  • dufflover on 11/06/2019 - 20:03
    +1

    Lucky I got out of flat complexes and dense townhouses already! This thread really brought back memories of how many days it was impossible to sleep cos our block was basically full of renting Uni students and only 2 or 3 out of 12 townhouses were owner-occupiers.
    That suburb is now very rent heavy and even denser and can tell the people who live there just don't give a crap about the place because it's all temporary for them, no investment in the place.

    And that's before Airbnb which just makes it 10x worse!

  • sa-ozzie on 11/06/2019 - 21:14
    +1

    Post a deal for free drink and canapés on ozbargain….see how the Airbnb guests enjoy some extra guests

  • MementoMori on 11/06/2019 - 21:22
    +2

    Have you spoken with the owner?

    You never know, they might be quite reasonable and fix it.

  • No ONE on 11/06/2019 - 21:41
    +1

    book the property under fake name and destroy it.

    Actually, don't do it

    Post a poster on your front door like
    " No Air BNB" or
    "Get off my f**king lawn" or
    "Gun owner"

    • mubd1234 on 13/06/2019 - 13:31

      The poster idea would be a good way to get the body corporate to bring in a new by-law saying that the corridor-facing side of front doors must be painted white and not have anything posted on them.

      The last one would also be a good way to get the police to kick your door down…

  • Evelyn288 on 12/06/2019 - 03:27
    +1

    Did you consider when you bought a unit that maybe there would be noise.

    I've lived in apartments (multiple) for a good 5 years, both renting and as owner in separate locations. People who live there who get shitty at living in close proximity to others really grind my gears. It's what you signed up for.

    If its serious, call the cops. But I hope you aren't one of those people who call the cops every weekend because you can hear people talking and laughing. :S

    • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 20:11

      It comes down to the use of the property. Most residential properties are designed as dwellings for a single household to live in long term. Once you start renting out rooms, or the whole dwelling, it changes the use from a dwelling to either short term accommodation, rooming accommodation or other uses. These do require planning approval from GCCC depending on the land use zone you are in as well as building approval from a third party building certifier as in most cases you need to change the features of the building e.g. fire warning systems, exit signs etc etc.

      For a home business, such as a bed and breakfast, you do need to reside in the dwelling while your guests are there. If you leave the dwelling and let them use it, then it is not a bed and breakfast.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/06/2019 - 21:42
        +1

        These do require planning approval from GCCC depending on the land use zone you are in as well as building approval from a third party building certifier as in most cases you need to change the features of the building e.g. fire warning systems, exit signs etc etc.

        If this is correct, why isn't your bodycorp or council doing something about it?

        • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 22:03
          +1

          As previously stated. I have reported the issue to GCCC and they are investigating whether the correct approvals are in place. They have asked for screen shots of the Air BNB advertisement. So I guess from here they will see whether or not they have the necessary approvals.

          This was only done a few days ago - So I do not expect instant results.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 12/06/2019 - 22:35
            -1

            @firebucket: GCCC will issue a "Show Cause" notice. The owner can simply dispute the allegations. GCCC have no powers to investigate. Nothing happens.

            Life goes on.

    • Cluster on 13/06/2019 - 15:22
      +1

      There is a large difference between buying an apartment and expecting occasional noise from people you know and can complain to, and the next door apartment being turned into a hotel where there could be a different guest every night who simply doesn't care about your complaints.

  • Salty Pretzel on 12/06/2019 - 10:20
    +1

    Move to a new place?

    • Cluster on 13/06/2019 - 15:20
      +1

      Why should the OP move if they are not the ones causing the problem? It's like victim blaming.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 13/06/2019 - 15:22

        OP should not have to move. Agreed. Unfortunately moving is usually the easiest and quickest solution.

        • firebucket on 13/06/2019 - 17:00

          Not that quick and easy when you own the property and have done so for several years prior to the arrival of Air BNB.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 14/06/2019 - 07:23

            @firebucket: Just putting it out there. Sometimes it is easier.

            I once lived next to a very drug affected individual who regularly hosted her other drug affected family and friends. Police called at least once a week. OC twice a week for damage. Incidents ranged from knocking on every unit owners door at 3am demanding $20 to buy cigarettes, falling asleep at the wheel of her car in the middle of the common driveway meaning no one could leave for work, to hosting a drug fueled party in which everyone's unit fronts were damaged. She and her friends were always smart enough to smash up security cameras and hide in their unit and not answer the door whenever police rocked up.

            Best outcome was a reprieve of 2-3 days when police arrested her when she made the mistake of smashing windows of a neighbour at 4am and then falling asleep in the middle of the common driveway. Then it started up all over again.

            After 6 months of that BS with no resolution it was far simpler to just sell up and move.

            • firebucket on 14/06/2019 - 12:20

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Thanks, but I definitely won't be going anywhere.

              It's a marathon, not a sprint.

              “The only thing necessary for the triumph of Air BnB is for good neigbours to do nothing.”

  • releasethekr4cken on 12/06/2019 - 18:14

    Gold Coast? beautiful, I am booking now

  • [Deactivated] on 12/06/2019 - 20:02

    OP, if you were in his shoes, would you leave your apartment empty? Or would you try to maximise your return on investment?

    • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 20:19
      +1

      He does not have to leave it empty and I haven't said anything like that. There are plenty of options apart from Air BNB. The long term rental market in this area is very competitive and lucrative. I don't even have an issue with Air BNB per se. I just have an issue with the people he is renting it to and the amount of loud partying they do.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/06/2019 - 22:08
        +2

        OP, I feel for you. There's nothing worse than having loud, disruptive neighbours. But the truth is that Air BNB is way more lucrative than long term rental. For instance, I own a 2 bedroom apartment with 'cityscape' views. I've had long-term tenants living there while one of the neighbours is Air BNBing his similar-sized apartment. Based on his calculations, his ROI is 67% more than mine…

        • firebucket on 12/06/2019 - 22:18
          +1

          Yes it's definately an interesting argument and I have an investment unit that could be rented through Air BNB, but I choose not to. It's pretty much set and forget with a long term tenant in it. And I don't have the headaches of cleaning, utilities, damages, complaints, increased rates and charges etc. The extra money would be nice, but I like the quiet of a long term tenant.

          • [Deactivated] on 12/06/2019 - 22:21
            +2

            @firebucket: Same :)

  • idonotknowwhy on 13/06/2019 - 08:47
    +1

    I just had an idea. The owner would probably prefer couples or families hiring the place rather than scummy house party people right?
    If the owner sets a minimum booking period for like 2 or 3 days, this would likely illuminate the shitty guests, as they won't want to book 2-3 nights just for 1 party.

    If you think that's a good idea, might be worth contacting the owner and suggesting it.

    Better for the owner in terms of damage to the property, and better for the neighbors.

  • firebucket on 13/06/2019 - 10:48
    +2

    Thank-you everyone for your insightful comments and helpful suggestions ;) They have all been taken onboard.

    I will just wait now until I hear back from the GCCC and I will be sure to let you know the outcome of that investigation.

    It may very well be the case that they can't take action or shut it down immediately, and I am ok with that.

    But what I do know is, the laws will only change when long suffering neighbours stand up to absent investors turning residential buildings into quasi motels and report them to the relevant authority.

    If we do nothing, nothing will change.

    All the best.

  • netsurfer on 13/06/2019 - 12:12
    +1

    Rent your unit out through Air BnB also and buy another one elsewhere (and live there).
    P.S. only kidding…

  • [Deactivated] on 13/06/2019 - 16:11

    Rent it yourself and be really quiet.

  • firebucket on 24/04/2023 - 16:45
    +1

    UPDATE: In case anyone is still following along. The GCCC can, does and has enforced short term rentals - contrary to zoning. Air BnB currently has been struck from this unit block and quiet enjoyment has been restored. Be sure to screen shot any advertisements of STR's to prove to GCCC and assist them with the investigation. I actually found them quite helpful. Best of Luck.

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