PayPal Dispute with OzBargainer - Anything I Can Do?

AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:34
Last edited 10/09/2019 - 22:23

update Shung has posted my full name and all our texts: https://ibb.co/3pmzcDR

Hi guys anyone know what I can do in this instance?

Sold a laptop on ozbargain via paypal. The buyer kept it for a month then told me the fan is too noisy

He has now lodged a complaint with PayPal that the item wasn't as described and PayPal is siding with them

PayPal said even if the buyer is lying or committing fraud there's no protection for sellers. They told me I would win the case and now they are saying they made a mistake…

One of the staff said I need to receive the item back then lodge a counter claim saying they didn't send it back in good condition… Wtf?

I have all the texts emails and photos where the buyer admits lying. PayPal said they cannot review any information unless it's from the buyer.

The special HP warranty I gave the buyer also let's hp go to his office or home and fix or replace on site for free. No cost and no delays.

.——————-
Hi Mark,

I finally started up the laptop last night and spent a couple of hours setting it up. Unfortunately I could not come to terms with the loud noise from the ventilating fan and as exaggerating as it sounds, it gives me a headache everytime I hear the noise.

Would it be possible for me to return the laptop? I will of course be happy to bear the cost of shipping the laptop back to you and am only seeking the refund of $1600 and nothing more.

I really wanted it to work and I am sorry.

Shung

Hi there Shung, that's strange are you running it in high performance mode? And have you done all the windows and Lenovo updates. It was sent in factory reset mode so there is a lot of updates.

The warranty is very good HP will come to your home or work for free and fix or repair or replace as need be if there is a problem with the fan. It should be quiet unless gaming or in high performance mode. Happy to call HP for you if it helps or find the warranty number and pass it to you. If you're still unhappy after they visit you, they should be able to replace it with a new one.

I'm just at work at the moment but let me know later how I can help :)

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Comments

        • gimme on 08/09/2019 - 23:19
          +1

          People can weigh up their own risks. I never sell anything on ebay. Gumtree and cash. Have managed to sell everything at a price I was happy with. Sure it may take longer but I don't personally care and don't need to worry abt anyone changing their mind 6mths later. If it works for you great but not for me

        • WhyAmICommenting on 09/09/2019 - 21:24

          Whoa $100

      • Kiro on 09/09/2019 - 07:39

        We a gang?….. thug life.

  • profar on 08/09/2019 - 10:17

    For me simply tag X % amount of PP going to be bad , same as around 1% of standard postage is going to go missing . Should be around 1 in 500 for standard postage .

    Cost of goods slightly higher obviously to cover the easy solution .

  • [Deactivated] on 08/09/2019 - 10:22
    +14

    Hey Mark,

    PayPal pretty much always side with the buyer. Anyways, if/when the dispute is decided in the buyer's favour (wrongfully), lodge a complaint with these guys (AFCA) who will get you in direct contact with PayPal's executive escalations team, who will make the necessary adjustments, if you are found to be in the right.

    • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 13:26

      Thanks very much for this

  • Pantagonist on 08/09/2019 - 10:33
    +5

    Given the circumstances, at this point I think your best option would be to accept the return from the buyer, cop the PayPal fees and hope that the laptop is still in the same working order as when it was sent.

    If there's an issue then you can kick off the warranty claim with HP.

    When you decide to sell it again, don't accept payment through PayPal unless the transaction is handled by Gumtree (no buyer protection for PayPal payments through that platform).

    Based on the profile and post history of the person who bought it off you, they don't come across as a dodgy or dishonest operator to me. The user's acccount has been active on here since 2013 so you're not dealing with someone who's created a disposable account for the transaction (generally a red flag for someone who might try to scam you).

  • Herbse on 08/09/2019 - 11:03
    -1

    Accept the return and be happy you have that much.
    Selling using PayPal gives buyers protection, allows you to sell interstate and thus and increases the value of what you're selling because you're open to more buyers. So you have to accept the fact that this can happen.

    It's either that or lower the price and sell in cash to whoever is within driving distance to you.

  • Gaz1 on 08/09/2019 - 15:03
    +1

    Name the buyer & get them to post their side of the story.

    • capslock janitor on 08/09/2019 - 15:22
      +1

      Hiz name Shung

      • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 15:35
        +3

        I'm not listing his ozbargain name as I don't think it's fair. If he wants to reply here he can but he won't reply to any msgs ..he just told me sorry and not to take it personally

        He can reply here if he wants but I'm coordinating with PayPal and amex at present

        I mean he's a student using his parents Paypal and $1600 is probably a huge amount of money to him (it's a lot to everyone but more to a student is what I mean), and all previous correspondence was respectful and courteous so I feel it's not nice to name his ozbargain account.

        • capslock janitor on 08/09/2019 - 15:58
          +9

          Did you send him this thread if he wanted to reply.
          Sounds like he simply changed his mind or fkd around with it.

          Especially after a month.
          Dick move by him for not talking to you before engaging Paypal.

        • Randolph Duke on 08/09/2019 - 20:24
          +8

          “he just told me sorry and not to take it personally”

          Oh that makes it ok then. Shitty action and an even shittier thing to say. Not sure why you’re defending them so much.

          • AussieMark on 09/09/2019 - 08:22
            +5

            @Randolph Duke: Yeah me neither lol

            He finally texted last night and was not very friendly.

            All well I've lodged a dispute with the financial ombudsman against PayPal and also a $850 dispute with amex for PayPal taking it out of my amex to try to get my negative balance back to 0

  • macrocephalic on 08/09/2019 - 15:38
    +3

    And this is why you should avoid PayPal. I use them when they're the only option, but their 'protection' isn't worth shit.

    If you'd just done a bank transfer then you wouldn't be having this problem.

    • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 15:40

      Yeah funny thing is he said he was happy to do bank transfer. I just didn't have payid setup until the next day.

      Lesson learnt hehe

      • capslock janitor on 08/09/2019 - 15:59
        +3

        I'm so glad for OSKO. People need to get on it. Especially businesses that offer a service

      • gimme on 08/09/2019 - 16:18
        -2

        Don't really need payid… bsb/ac# would have worked the same way and just as fast

        • capslock janitor on 08/09/2019 - 16:29
          +1

          BSB/ACC takes 1-2 bus days to receive/process, no?
          PayID/OSKO is "instant" if that's what they wanted… immediate action.

          edit: Looks like OP mistaking Bank trans as payid only..?

          • spaceflight on 08/09/2019 - 18:06
            +4

            @capslock janitor: If both banks support PayID/OSKO then they can also process BSB/ACC transfers as fast payments.

            A PayID isn't needed.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/09/2019 - 17:23
      +3

      The 'protection' is only for the buyer. Seller protection is a joke. Even with a tracking number they will sometimes side with the buyer claiming non-receipt. Happened to me last year. Luckily it was only $25.

  • imurgod on 08/09/2019 - 17:17
    +4

    Sounds like one of the many laptop scams out there using PayPal, swapping for defective machines or parts and complaining to paypal.

    It's the reason I only accept cash for this stuff now.

    Paypal are useless and charge extortionate fees.

    • netjock on 08/09/2019 - 17:48

      Block-quote Paypal are useless and charge extortionate fees.

      Definitely agree with that.

      Was looking at setting up shopping portal.

      It seems like Paypal takes 30c + 2% per transaction. Physical stores through commonwealth bank is averaging 1.65%.

      • macrocephalic on 09/09/2019 - 10:49

        Card present transactions always get a better rate than online. 2% is much better than it used to be; 10 years ago I worked for a payment processor (doing mostly higher risk transactions) and the default rate was about 7%.

        • netjock on 09/09/2019 - 11:01

          10 years ago we were also paying through the nose for an Intel Q6600. We've introduced surcharging but we can't get the cost down.

          30c per transaction was back in the days when the terminals need a phone line. Bandwidth is almost free these days, not sure how they can get away with that. (in case why people wonder min eftpos is $10 it is due to the 30c charge)

  • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 17:52
    +8

    wow paypal has actually decided to look at the case again…. after being told OUR DECISION IS FINAL NO APPEALS lol

    • SnoozeAndLose on 08/09/2019 - 18:17

      Did you tell them you will escalate this?

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/09/2019 - 09:22
      +7

      It's because you've lodged a dispute with the financial ombudsman. They always do this. Filing a dispute is the only way to get PayPal's attention.

  • ganymede on 08/09/2019 - 18:29

    The fan might be running a max speed because of background processes (e.g. updates), has the fan quiet down since or continue to be loud?

    • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 18:45
      +1

      its a geforce 1070 on hp omen for 1600

      so of course the fan wil be loud when its on high performance…. mode i explained it to the guy :(

  • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 19:20
    +1

    Thanks guys I have went through and captured all the emails and correspondence showing the buyer knew the laptop was not brand new and unopened as he is claiming i promised him… Paypal say they dont need ANY documentation from me but I am sending it to them anyway.

    Attachments
    Aug 3, 2019, 9:20 PM
    to vajrachanyao

    Please note that order date was Dec 2017 but took a month or two to arrive.

    Also note HP gave me $1000 discount as they ran out of stock and upgraded my order as I had to wait a few months (happy to provide proof) :)

    Hello Mark
    Your purchase order number SCPO816090 has invoiced. Please refer following invoice details for your reference.

                      TAX INVOICE

    ACN 603 480 628
    ABN 16 603 480 628
    HP PPS AUSTRALIA PTY LTD
    Rhodes Corporate Park L5 Bldg F
    1 Homebush Bay Drive
    Rhodes, NSW 2138
    AUSTRALIA Purchase Order No. SCPO816090
    Order Date 6 Dec 2017
    Invoice Status Fully Invoiced
    Invoice Date 25 Dec 2017

    • peco on 08/09/2019 - 21:49
      +3

      Not saying he deserves his money back or anything but your post did say "GeForce GTX 1070 HP Omen (New)" even though the description and the pictures showed otherwise.

      • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 22:05
        +1

        yeah That's probably my fault I meant 'as new' / in new condition as it did sit in the box for ages but I guess i was meaning new not brand new and sealed as i explained in the photos and description

        but fair point - i shouldn't have written that perhaps.

  • t_c on 08/09/2019 - 19:46
    -3

    Why are you so terrified of accepting the return and selling it to someone else?

    Do you think you sold it at such a high price you wont be able to find another buyer?

    If its in different condition do as paypal told you and lodge a counter claim.

    • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 20:11
      +9

      ? why do i need to be terrified lol. I sold it at a good price, and even had another ozbargainer offer 1700.

      It's the principle my paypal account has been locked up for 1-2 weeks causing all sorts of issues.

      And I have literally photos, texts and screenshots all showing that he is lying to paypal.

      It's more about the time and principle.

      "If its in different condition do as paypal told you and lodge a counter claim."
      It costs money to get an independent 3rd party to test the laptop and provide documentation, you also only have 3 days to do this.

  • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 19:47

    This is the paypal REVIEW:

    Case history
    8 SEP 2019

    Under review

    PayPal
    6 SEP 2019

    Waiting for the seller's response

    PayPal
    Email sent to the seller

    PayPal
    Email sent to the buyer

    PayPal
    Evidence provided by the buyer

    Buyer
    Under review

    PayPal
    5 SEP 2019

    Waiting for buyer response

    PayPal
    Email sent to the buyer

    PayPal
    Email sent to the seller

    PayPal
    Under review

    PayPal
    Email sent to the seller

    PayPal
    Email sent to the buyer

    PayPal
    Email sent to the seller

    PayPal
    1 SEP 2019

    Email sent to the seller

    PayPal
    28 AUG 2019

    Waiting for the seller's response

    PayPal
    Email sent to the seller

    PayPal
    Under review

    PayPal
    Email sent to the buyer

    PayPal
    Email sent to the seller

    PayPal
    Email sent to the buyer

    PayPal
    Under review

    PayPal
    Case escalated to PayPal

    You
    Email sent to the buyer

    PayPal
    Open

    PayPal
    Email sent to the seller

    PayPal
    Email sent to the buyer

    PayPal
    Open

    PayPal
    Created

    Buyer

  • Jaskie on 08/09/2019 - 20:08
    +22

    Hopefully this isn't one of those threads where I get emotionally invested and never find out the outcome :P

    • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 20:12
      +11

      haha I wont leave you hanging but give me 3-7 days

      • Jaskie on 17/09/2019 - 18:38
        +1

        Remember the time you promised me an answer in 3-7 days but then didn't give me an update? :P

        • AussieMark on 17/09/2019 - 18:46
          +1

          Hi there hah well there has been other updates but I do apologize. The buyer has been cropping my posts here and sending them to PayPal (leaving out the context and parts of the msgs)

          So I've had to be a little more cautious

          PayPal case is still pending but I will give an update when I have it.

          I have HP coming Thurs to inspect the unit

  • funnysht on 08/09/2019 - 22:32
    +2

    waiting for the other thread on ozbargain "item not as described what to do"

    • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 22:33

      I did see that one but it seemed quite different to mine so I hope you don't mind me.posting (and I wasn't really sure if it was rude just to post my story in someone else's thread)

  • xuqi on 08/09/2019 - 23:58

    This is why you only sell things face-to-face and with cash. Paypal always side with the buyer whatever the reason/case, it's that simple.

    Not even sure how 'not as described' is valid for a private sale on Ozbargain, but until someone takes Paypal to court and wins (perhaps AFCA https://www.fos.org.au/), nothing will change.

    • topstuff on 09/09/2019 - 00:17

      Is there a BIOS option to turn off any fan 'always-on' setting? I have seen many HP's default to always-on or high.

      • xuqi on 09/09/2019 - 09:08
        +1

        I doubt you'd find that in a higher-end laptop like with a heat producing GPU. A newer BIOS may address hear/fan curve issues HP may have found, but this just sounds like a seller trying to return something after they've had a play with it (change of mind), or worse (trying to rip the OP off).

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/09/2019 - 09:24
          +3

          buyer trying to return something after they've had a play with it (change of mind)

          Clearly this. The buyer is a kid and bought a very expensive toy.

          • outlander on 09/09/2019 - 10:32
            +2

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: My thoughts exactly. He bought the laptop, then had second thoughts about it, so he started looking for something wrong with it. Look for something hard enough, and you will find it. Every time.

            Or just as likely, he bought it, then found something cheaper that would do the job.

  • Kiro on 09/09/2019 - 10:25
    +1

    OP you state he is lying although not clear on what and to who, you or paypal. Anyway it's a shame that people act like this on an impulse buy them have regret and want a refund. I hope you have all the specs taken down as I would hate for them to swap out parts for lesser speced or faulty items.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/09/2019 - 10:50
      +1

      Had you taken the time to read OP's posts, you'd clearly see they said the buyer is claiming the item isn't as described as they expected a new not used item. The conversation back and forward make it perfectly clear the item was used.

      • Kiro on 09/09/2019 - 11:32
        -1

        Sorry I did read the thread including the replies from the OP but as I stated it's bad when an impulse buyers come along do this sort of stuff. Also I have seen people buy stuff and swap it out for items faulty and make a false claim.

  • Team Ozgiftcards on 09/09/2019 - 10:39
    +2

    I don't accept PayPal for for 3 (now 4) reasons.
    1. PayPal takes a fee so I can't pass on the full discount anymore.
    2. I've had bad experience where a buyer used a stolen credit card to pay which subsequently led to the transfer reversed and me out of pocket for thousands.
    3. Its also potentially a tax dodge which some people use to cash out their online sales without being taxed. As an accountant I rather not get involved.

    1. Common buyer disputes as per OPs experience.
  • 00000000 on 09/09/2019 - 11:25
    +2

    clearly a case of buyers remorse.
    (profanity) paypal

  • ballsau on 09/09/2019 - 11:43

    I will never buy a HP laptop ever again. The particular model I have has the loudest fan, I installed latest firmware which had option to reduce fan noise but still so loud! Sitting in the drawer, will probably never be used again, can't sell it.

    • blehgg on 09/09/2019 - 11:57

      Google replace noisy HP fan with after market?

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/09/2019 - 12:09
      +9

      …Shung?

      • ballsau on 09/09/2019 - 12:47

        Maybe Mark?

        • AussieMark on 09/09/2019 - 13:09
          +1

          Hey?.I'm at work hah WhatsUp. I cannot keep up with all the love and feedback here hah

          I'm going to post back when I have news

          I didn't even expect anyone to reply this is my first forum post and I've been a member for like 10 years 😂

    • oshe on 09/09/2019 - 15:08
      +1

      WD40 fixes alles

  • netsurfer on 09/09/2019 - 14:18
    +1

    Mark,

    A few things:

    • Do not believe in what PayPal Support and eBay Support tell you over online chat or even phone calls, UNLESS in the entire conversation, you were 100% objective. Support have a tendency to calm you down and when the story you present is one sided, they will side with you (in that conversation). However, that is pretty useless because when it comes to ruling, it works differently.
    • Get the laptop back as soon as possible. When it comes to item not as described, as soon as you realise the buyer insists on return, you should get the item back (unless that item has $0 value to you).
    • Once you get the laptop back, re-check and decide what to do. Need to check the laptop under heavy gaming. For example, I have a PC which is quiet most of the time. However, as soon as I put heavy GPU based games on it, the PSU has a pretty heavy coil whine.
    • Don't try to raise a counter claim, it will be fairly useless. The buyer can get his bank / credit card provider involved in this. If that were to happen, you will be on the losing side for sure. Unless, that counter claim is some form of seller protection insurance (managed by a 3rd party provider).

    The more expensive the item, the lower the success rate of the transaction. Recently, I accepted a return due to user error - full refund to the buyer (I really tried to help the buyer, but just couldn't get the issue resolved using the instructions provided). Got the item back and sold it again and the new buyer was quite happy with the item.

    Most sellers don't realise that we still need to adhere to the AU consumer laws. Buyers can return the items within specific period of time. When you sell on feeBay or use PayPal, you need to provide big retailer (i.e. OfficeWorks, Apple) like after sale service. PayPal won't fight for you. It's not worth their trouble for that 3% cut. Need to be prepared for transactions gone pear shaped. Try to handle them professionally. It's just business, and no business can have 100% success in all transactions.

  • [Deactivated] on 09/09/2019 - 14:24

    When i sell used items, i write 'as is'.

    • netsurfer on 09/09/2019 - 14:27
      +1

      Makes very little difference. Buyer can state that you did not mention the fan is noisy under load - i.e. still false advertising.
      Also, on eBay, you can state "no return" all you want, feeBay won't give a damn. Return still needs to be provided if the item is not as described.

      When it comes to an used item, don't oversell the condition of the item. In fact, purposely state the condition to be inferior than the actual condition is more beneficial. Trust me, when you state an item is in very good condition, it'd better be in damn good, pristine condition otherwise some buyers will really pick on you.

      If you are not prepared to handle return / refund, then only do cash on delivery / meet up type sales with zero return. If you want to accept PayPal, then know that you need to provide top notch service in the worst case scenario sometimes.

      • [Deactivated] on 09/09/2019 - 14:58

        May be thats why i have not sold anything via ebay since 2012.

        Facebook marketplace and gumtree all the way now for selling.

        • netsurfer on 09/09/2019 - 15:29

          Yeah, those are better. FeeBay and PayPal are leeches. There are also people which hacked other people's feeBay account to buy stuff (esp. non-physical items).

        • macrocephalic on 10/09/2019 - 10:19

          This is what has happened to ebay. It used to be a place for people to sell things, now it's just a aggregated online store. Private sales on ebay are all but gone.

  • Hunter14 on 09/09/2019 - 14:48
    +2

    Sorry I can't help but I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading both buyer and seller's emails. Polite, to the point, and respectful. My dream is a world where everyone sends emails with this type of integrity and tone. Thank you for reading.

  • [Deactivated] on 09/09/2019 - 16:10
    +1

    Never sold an item to another tightarse, it's obvious isn't it?

  • Dack Smith on 09/09/2019 - 19:35
    +1

    Just about all laptops with discrete graphics cards above 1060 will have heavy fan noise. It does sound like a jet taking off when gaming, but at least it won't overheat and die.

    Many people have little to no financial impulse control, me want me do me no think? then cry afterwards and try to pull this kind of crap, quite common when selling on Ebay.

  • HeWhoKnows on 09/09/2019 - 21:08
    +2

    Everyone get this FACT in your heads

    PayPal offers NO SUPPORT or PROTECTION for sellers even though the seller is paying the fees.
    Its the only business I know that does not support the paying customer.

    The one exception is that PayPal acknowledges proof of delivery when it comes to a claim of non-delivery by the buyer.

    The buyer could be blatantly lying about the goods and PayPal doesnt care.
    PayPal's point of view is to get the goods back to the seller so they have a chance to sell the goods again.

    Therefore I strongly advise anyone selling goods to avoid accepting PayPal.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/09/2019 - 16:30

      The one exception is that PayPal acknowledges proof of delivery when it comes to a claim of non-delivery by the buyer.

      They don't even do this lol. I sent a $25 item last year, with tracking number. Long story short the buyer had a very elaborate story prepared and won the dispute :(

      • HeWhoKnows on 10/09/2019 - 18:31

        From PayPal:

        PayPal Seller Protection is a form of protection that we provide for sellers with a PayPal account. It's available for eligible payments made through eBay and outside of eBay which involve buyers purchasing through PayPal accounts in any country. If your buyer files a reversal, claim or chargeback against you due to unauthorised transactions or for items not received, PayPal will reimburse the full amount of your eligible transaction and waive the chargeback fee if applicable.

        Perhaps zeggie should have read this back to PayPal and ask for the reimbursement.

        But yes, PayPal to be avoided as a form of payment.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/09/2019 - 20:02

          Yes I'm aware of their terms. I did copy and paste it back to them with no luck.

          Essentially the elaborate story the buyer used was, the address is a commercial property with no mailbox, deliveries only received via a storeman via a roller door. Storeman had no recollection of anyone delivering that item.

          So despite my receipt with tracking ID, and tracking ID on Austpost website saying delivered, they still sided with the buyer. Maybe I should have posted from the counter with the option signature required, but that's an extra 10% on top of the selling price of the item lol.

  • shungyiu on 09/09/2019 - 23:30
    +5

    Hello all, I am Shung, my apology to the fellow ozbargainers who had been mistaken by others as me. I have only seen this post earlier this afternoon and thank you for the opportunity for showing my side of story.

    This was the deal in question:
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/474614

    Please note that all my communications with Mark were via ozbargain's pms and sms. With PayPal I have only used their website so all were documented.

    3 Aug
    I purchased a laptop from Mark as the item description says "…No negotiation on price as you can see it has never been used…". I have only ever purchased brand new computers as you cannot tell what the device had been used for.

    6 Aug
    Mark sent me a txt saying that the laptop was posted.

    9 Aug
    The laptop was delivered. However I have been ultra busy with work and study so I never got a chance to even open it.

    27 Aug
    16 days after the laptop had been delivered, I finally got a chance to open it up.

    My excitement was quickly overtaken. I noticed the keyboard was dirty, with hair and lots of dust. The hair were stucked under the keys, it was disgusting.

    I also noticed that there are dirt marks on the gaming keys and speaking of experience(I played FIFA a number of years ago), these dirts can only be accummulated after around a week of intensive gaming.

    At this point I still tried to make it work, I began setting it up. After it has been setup (office suite, internet security installed etc), suddenly the fan began blowing furiously and to the extent that I cannot concentrate on performing any task on it. No games or cpu/gpu intensive apps were installed or running.

    Believe it or not, even after turning the laptop off, I could feel something very negative from the laptop and I developed a massive headache overnight and could not sleep, until I moved the laptop out of my room the next day.
    (I understand saying this wil not do me any favour but it's the truth and I am offering nothing else but my true experience)

    28 Aug
    As things did not work out I regrettably contacted Mark for a return. He asked me to contact HP for warrantly. I explained that the noisy fan was only one of the reasons and I was going to escalate the case to PayPal as I do not want to waste anybody's time.

    6 Sep
    I received an notification from PayPal asking me to send the item back to Mark, I sent it back using the same postage method (with signature and insurance) that Mark used on the same day.

    8 Sep
    I received sms from Mark accusing me repeatedly as liars.

    Please see a snapshot of the conversations between Mark and myself via sms.
    https://ibb.co/3pmzcDR

    PayPal's case details:
    Case details
    Seller information
    Mark

    Transaction amount
    $1,600.00 AUD

    Transaction ID

    Shipping address

    Date reported
    28 August 2019

    Your notes
    Contrary to the advertised "Never been used" condition of the laptop, when I first opened the laptop I could immediately notice there is a lot of dust and hair on the keyboard, as well as dirt marks from the red keys (directional keys of a gaming laptop), indicating the laptop had been used extensively for gaming for at least a week, this is speaking from my personal experience as a gamer.

    File
    hp omen.jpg
    Additional information
    Item issues
    Other

    Refund requested
    $1,600.00 AUD

    Your responses
    Date added
    6 September 2019

    **************, Australia Post eParcel
    File
    IMG_20190906_142221.jpg
    Your conversation with the seller
    You
    Contrary to the advertised "Never been used" condition of the laptop, when I first opened the laptop I could immediately notice there is a lot of dust and hair on the keyboard, as well as dirt marks from the red keys (directional keys of a gaming laptop), indicating the laptop had been used extensively for gaming for at least a week, this is speaking from my personal experience as a gamer.

    28 August 2019 at 6:42:48 PM AEST

    Hi there, Thanks for your email. Just to clarify on Aug 3rd I received $1,558.10 via paypal from you due to the fees for the Omen laptop in question. As we discussed I also paid the registered post and insurance and you paid the auspost postage. I was surprised I didn't hear from you until now as it has been almost a month and it's a shame you are not happy with the laptop. As I said in text messages the laptop does come with a $300 warranty (already paid for by me) with HP where they will visit your home or office and fix any issues with the laptop or replace onsite as needed. You dont need to take it anywhere. They will even offer a replacement laptop after testing if it's appropriate. I recommend contacting them first to see if they can fix the issue or I am happy to contact them also. You are also getting a $3500 machine for $1558 I do feel at this stage I have tried my best so let's escalate to paypal to see what they think is fair in this instance. Warm regards, Mark

    28 August 2019 at 10:30:11 PM AEST

    • cdaddy on 09/09/2019 - 23:34
      +9

      🍿

    • DogGunn on 09/09/2019 - 23:40
      +2

      So, did you take a photo of the dust and hair, and the wear on the keyboard?

      • shungyiu on 09/09/2019 - 23:53
        -3

        I did take a photo of dirt marks and it had been sent to PayPal, however, regrettably without the said hair and dust as I pulled all the hair out and vacuumed the keyboard, it was done on instant response to a mess.

        • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 07:30
          +5

          Just to be clear here PayPal said he sent a photo of 4 keys… And they had no idea why so they contacted him again

          Those same 4 keys also have came with a spare set in the box.

          Never received any photos of hair or dirt. I don't think it's possible given the setup of the keys. There's no gap under them but happy for him to provide proof

          • Ryxxi on 13/09/2019 - 10:12

            @AussieMark: do you have photos of the laptop proving that it wasn't used ? Should have atleast cleaned it before selling if what the buyer is saying is true.

    • spychiatrist on 09/09/2019 - 23:59
      +2

      The plot thickens…

    • tomsco on 10/09/2019 - 00:06
      +1

      Thanks for stopping by :)

    • xinyi on 10/09/2019 - 00:44
      +9

      Used electronics are like used cars, there is no way to assess the value of the thing until you use it ie. no pictures or words can describe what it is actually worth.

      Obviously the laptop wasn't worth $1600 to you and that is perfectly reasonable. I don't think you have done anything wrong, in fact OP is acting like Karen and wants the whole community to guilt shame you into accepting a dud machine.

      • SirFlibbled on 16/09/2019 - 10:58
        +2

        I disagree. The buyer was getting something second hand which has inherent risks. It's buyer beware and personally I'd never buy a computer second hand from a rendo online without the opportunity to check it out before parting with my money.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 19/09/2019 - 22:56

          To be fair xinyih posted that before further facts were known.

    • rave75 on 10/09/2019 - 04:57
      +11

      I reckon OP's ad was misleading. Upfront he said "No negotiation on price as you can see it has never been used."

      You don't say on 1.5 year old laptop. Clearly a false advertising.

      • ssquid on 10/09/2019 - 06:43

        Which ad? He posted it 5 times with different prices every time.

        • rompastompa on 10/09/2019 - 11:07
          +13

          WTS: Brand New HP Omen Laptop GeForce 1070 & Extended Warranty $1200 Discount (OMEN by HP - 17-An062tx (Part Number: 2JQ43PA)
          Brand New HP Omen Laptop GeForce 1070 & Extended Warranty 1000+ Discount (OMEN by HP - 17-An062tx (Part Number: 2JQ43PA)
          GeForce GTX 1070 HP Omen (New) & Extended Warranty (OMEN by HP - 17-An062tx (Part Number: 2JQ43PA)
          GeForce GTX 1070 HP Omen (New) & Extended Warranty (OMEN by HP - 17-An062tx (Part Number: 2JQ43PA)
          GeForce GTX 1070 HP Omen (New) & Extended Warranty (OMEN by HP - 17-An062tx (Part Number: 2JQ43PA)

          All posts say:

          Basically I purchased this as a reward for myself but never actually got around to using it as I've been using my old (much smaller laptop). I have however tested it to make sure it works and setup the warranty.
          No negotiation on price as you can see it has never been used and is already $1000-$1500 off and includes the extended warranty I purchased

          OP stating that there's photos to show it is on, therefore 'used' contradicts the description. It has obviously been used, and OP has convinced seller that it's never been used by saying I have however tested it. What OP meant, is that they have thoroughly tested it for 6 months, and is not actually new.

            • rompastompa on 10/09/2019 - 11:23
              +14

              @AussieMark:

              "I have had it for 1.5 years and sat in the box for 1 year" - source

              And you're still claiming that you never used it? You didn't turn it on when you first bought it? Never installed a game, browsed the internet, checked out Red/YouTube?

              Look, we're not the judge or jury here.. One thing is clear though, you need to work on your title/descriptions and be clear and concise to avoid confusion and therefore dissatisfied transactions.

              Also; being sealed doesn't necessarily make something brand new, nor does not having a seal make it used.

              My understanding, is that brand new is marketing term to ensure that a product has not been removed from the manufactured packaging (not all items are manufactured 'sealed'). New can be removed from original packaging, but still unused.

              If you use something, even if for thirty seconds, it changes that condition to 'Demo', 'Used' or 'As New' (unless demoing for purchaser).

              • timetoquit on 10/09/2019 - 12:14
                +7

                @rompastompa: Agree with everything rompastompa has said.

                I would be pretty annoyed myself if someone sold me something titled 'new' and it was clearly used for a week or 10 weeks. Fact that it been sitting in the box for a years means nothing to me, it's just another story to add to your justification that it will be in good condition. My Xbox1 probably looks 'newer' then your laptop and it has been sitting in the box for more than 3 years.

                Would be good if buyer could cost more pictures.

                Anyway you've both learnt a lesson here!

              • rave75 on 10/09/2019 - 13:48
                +4

                @rompastompa: I am wondering the same whether @AussieMark has used the laptop OTHER than testing it as he described in the ad. He has been asked that question several times already and seems to avoid answering a simple yes or no question.

                He did mention somewhere in the line of the laptop was too heavy to be carried around and has bought a lighter laptop (X1 carbon). Also he mentioned he has had it for 1.5 years and sitting in the box for 1 year which indicated that it has been used for 6 months. OP should've clearly marked his ad as "used" and do not use the term "new" at all. For 1.5 year old laptop which could be had last Nov for $2k (https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/416377), I don't think $1700 is even a decent price at all.

                • ssquid on 10/09/2019 - 19:43
                  +2

                  @rave75:

                  I don't think $1700 is even a decent price at all.

                  It's not. I suspect the buyer might have seen the discounted 9th gen omen machines during HP's August price blitz and realised they got a bad deal.

                • AussieMark on 20/09/2019 - 08:12
                  -2

                  @rave75: I've replied 6 times now 😂

                  I'm not going to keep answering the same question. If you think using it for a few hours makes a laptop no longer new, I cannot argue with that.

                  I still consider a suitcase brand new if it's never been used. Carrying it home from the store doesn't count

      • AussieMark on 20/09/2019 - 08:18

        ? It clearly says in bold the purchase date before the money was even transferred

    • HighAndDry on 12/09/2019 - 09:56
      +3

      indicating the laptop had been used extensively for gaming for at least a week, this is speaking from my personal experience as a gamer.

      Hahahahaha nah F off mate.

  • xinyi on 10/09/2019 - 00:41
    +5

    Everyone loses here ->

    *Paypal refunded whole $1,600 inclusive of its fees, so they made nothing and has to deal with a dispute and now more potential headaches from the credit card company and the Ombudsmen's office.

    *Buyer loses return postage and wasted time trying to make a dud laptop work

    *Seller loses postage plus has to see if laptop was returned in original condition.

    What does the community gain from this?? Nothing.

    • moo on 10/09/2019 - 02:02
      +11

      What does the community gain from this?? Nothing.

      Lesson learnt, comic relief, excitement… just to name a few. The winner here is actually the OzBargain community minus the 2 members. Well Scotty ultimately wins, as the drama keeps people coming back, therefore keeping the OzBargain hamster wheel turning.

      • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 07:23

        Lol I'm happy for him to share his side of the story

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