New Home Network Hardware Suggestions

themadman on 22/11/2019 - 15:27
Last edited 22/11/2019 - 15:36

I'm looking for an upgrade to my current home network as my current Belkin router is getting old and having network connectivity issues. The features also seem pretty sparse in the interface.

Ideally, the new setup will last me a while, allow me to easily expand when I move out to someplace bigger (currently renting a granny flat), have a decent set of features and ability to set up VPN's (to manage smart home gear). Is it worth going with something commercial (such as Uniti gear) or just get a regular home router?

The Unifi gear looks really cool and fun to work with, however I'm not sure how feasible it is on a budget (<$200 preferably, although I can probably spend a bit more if it's going to last a decent amount of time?). I'm assuming as this deal (Unifi AC Pro V2) is only an access point (wireless repeater?) I'd need to get a switch and some other gear to manage the NBN connection. I can't just hook this straight up to my NBN box without a router, right?

Also, I imagine the Unifi AP's would need a physical connection to whatever switch/router I bought, so wouldn't be able to place it anywhere without knocking holes in the roof/walls for cabling?

Computing

Comments

  • iampoor on 22/11/2019 - 15:42

    I would go with a mesh router and a satellite if you need the coverage.

    After looking at them all I went with the ORBI 40 bought off one of the deals here, really happy with it.

    NBN worked connected straight to the Orbi but since I have a vodafone modem which switches to the 4G network if the NBN goes down, I put did NBN>Vodafone Router>Orbi

    Edit: Just saw your budget, Tenda/Kogan should fit within your budget and most reviews are positive.

    • themadman on 22/11/2019 - 16:05

      Yeah, I don't want to go with budget brands if I can help it. From the sound of it I can get a Unifi router and AP for around $250 which isn't terrible. I'd rather get decent quality for a little more. :) Is Orbi basically a netgear equivalent to Unifi's stuff?

      • iampoor on 22/11/2019 - 16:06

        Yup, Orbi, Unifi, Synology, all good.

  • incipient on 22/11/2019 - 15:45
    +4

    For a home setup you can really go two ways.
    1) Simple, easy, adequate.
    - Get an Asus 68U (for a <$200 budget), turn it on, follow steps, and you're done. It has built in few-click OpenVPN setup too.

    2) Big, robust, bit more complex, highly flexible. This is the Unifi route. You'll need the below:

    Modem/Router:
    Ubiquiti offers the "USG" for this. About $150. It's a very capable box. Will do vpn, dhcp, fireweall, etc. This will require the Unifi controller installed somewhere to set up and configure.
    Alternative is to use a small/cheaper router like a Draytek or something.

    Access Point:
    The above modem/router wont have wifi. The Unifi APs (there are a bunch of options ranging from 130-$250+). "strongly recommended" to use the Unifi controller to set this up.

    Swtich:
    There are some ubiquiti options. $150 or so for a managed 8 port with PoE. Controller required.
    Alternatively get the $40 tp-link non-POE unmanaged metal one. It's a beauty.

    Overall this setup will give good transparency of incoming/outgoing data, users on your network etc. The more unifi bits you add to the network, the more details and control over your network you'll have.

    Honestly for 95% of home users I would recommend the 68U. If someone had a massive home, I would recommend one of the mesh alternatives instead.

    Unifi hardware is truly amazing and compared to Cisco etc cheap for the price…but it's still ~$500+ for a setup, and takes more time/knowledge to get it working.

    • nfr on 22/11/2019 - 15:53

      Amazing in what ways?

      • incipient on 22/11/2019 - 16:11
        +1

        The unifi stuff is really as full featured as you would like. Breaks down traffic by type, source, etc. Shows device loads/network bottlenetcks. Nice visual maps of what is connected where. Solid content filters (look at their SPI/DPI documentation). Solid, well built hardware. Cheap for quality and what it does.

    • themadman on 22/11/2019 - 16:01

      Thanks for the summary, this is what I was after. :) I just really don't have much idea how much a decent setup will cost as I don't know what other pieces will be required. Could I start out with just a USG and AP without the switch, and then add a switch later when I've got the funds? If so, that's around $300 for a good AP and a router which I can easily expand.

      I'd muuuuuch rather go with a system which is robust and leaves room for whatever smart home gear I intend to get, which was the other reason I didn't just want to get a basic router.

      • incipient on 22/11/2019 - 16:21
        +3

        The 68U is super reliable too. It's no second rate hardware.

        You'll need a switch, unless you're not plugging in a single wired device other than the AP, and even without the switch, the config will be more fiddly. The solid $40 tp-link (or any) will be fine if you dont plan on upgrading. or a cheap $10 one if you will upgrade!

        You'll need to set up the unifi controller software on something (or buy the hardware, but it's money you dont need to spend). I personally put it on a VM…but that's because the work server had some spare resources to fit it. The controller on a Pi should also work fine.

        Just confirm the USG will work with your internet (e.g. NBN).

        The main case i'd personally recommend the unif is:
        - large household, 4+ ppl
        - mixed/broad data use. some wired/wireless, with gaming, streaming, maybe some IP cameras.
        - interest in tech/tinkering

        This is really because:
        - it'll help you identify problems. e.g. AP overloaded, router/internet overloaded, etc.
        - it'll handle the higher demands well
        - you'll get some satisfaction/enjoyment out of playing with it all :)

        • themadman on 22/11/2019 - 16:54

          Oh yeah, I get that the 68U isn't junk. I'm just not sure how well it will age compared to the Unifi gear.

          With the switch, I don't have anything using ethernet at the minute so that's not really a major factor. Is Unifi the kind of system where you really shouldn't mix and match other brands? Just curious as I have a friend in IT who apparently has loads of used cisco switches and stuff sitting around and that could be a cheap way to temporarily fill that area?

          I do enjoy tinkering and plan to expand my smart home gear to include cameras, lights, etc over the next 5 years, so realistically I think this is one of my biggest likes about the Unifi system. :) I just don't have a huge budget so need to figure out if I can justify it haha.

          There's only 2 of us in a small house, so you're right that the 68U is probably enough, but I don't want to move out of this place and then realise I need to replace the router because of inadequate signal strength, outdated firmware etc.

          • incipient on 22/11/2019 - 17:04
            +2

            @themadman: My general recommendations stand above. But see below for my thoughts =P

            If you're got this far and haven't been freaked out by multiple devices and spending an afternoon or two setting it up. I'd say go for it! It's well rewarding (and you'll learn a bit more about networks haha)

            The switch, consider if you need PoE. If you're going to be running some ethernet to put the AP somewhere, PoE may be helpful. Otherwise, if power points are plenty, a cheap switch could work…and upgrade to a Unifi PoE switch when/if they release a PoE compatible USG.

            I don't recommend the below, but I do this myself
            On the budget side of things. It is a bit more expensive. As someone mentioned the USG is getting a bit old…so a 2nd hand/gumtree option may not be a bad idea. I haven't checked what they're worth however. I was running some ANCIENT Cisco switches from 2005 which i got for $10 a pop and they lasted me 3 years and were still going great. but as with anything 2nd hand. it's a bit of pot luck.

            • themadman on 22/11/2019 - 17:21

              @incipient: Thanks so much for the advice. :) Really appreciate it.

              The POE sounds like a smart idea if I'm planning to get cameras and AP's, so I'll probably look into switches that support it in the long term. Sucks that the UGS doesn't support it. I imagine when I'm starting out it still comes with a standard power supply to plug into a wall socket?

              Definitely understand the pot luck with used gear as I've tried doing it in the past haha, however I do consider myself a 2nd hand lover so I'll definitely be looking into what I can get used without compromising too much. I don't really want to mix and match too much if i can help it though.

    • iampoor on 22/11/2019 - 16:08

      Great write up, this is the reason I went with Orbi, probably not as flexible/good but does everything I need and was pretty much plug and play.

      Downloaded app on to phone, scanned QR codes and within 2-3 mins everything was working. Paid about $280 with full signal at every corner of a 400+ sqm block.

    • themadman on 22/11/2019 - 16:13

      Wait, so when you're talking about the Unifi controller. Is this a separate $150 piece of hardware in addition to the router? Or does the router have this functionality built into it?

      • trankillity on 22/11/2019 - 16:20
        +1

        The controller is just a piece of software that can be run on any existing hardware. It's only required for setting up your devices (no built-in web UI on the Unifi products). You can buy a piece of hardware called the CloudKey whose sole purpose is to run this controller and monitor your network, however I just have my controller running on my NAS.

        • incipient on 22/11/2019 - 16:23

          Correct! Sorry I didn't explain that well at all.

          A raspberry pi is also a good cheap alternative to run the controller software.

        • themadman on 22/11/2019 - 16:45

          Awesome. Just looking in Home Assistant and found this add-on which looks like it.

    • trankillity on 22/11/2019 - 16:28

      I second the Unifi suggestion. I went whole-home Unifi a while ago and couldn't be happier.

      However, I would not recommend the USG anymore. It's one of their first products and is very aged now. In fact, they've just released an amazing all-in-one product called the Unifi Dream Machine which has built-in managed Switch, CloudKey, AP, and Router. If you get one of these, it will be able to manage your entire home network with ease, and will be able to power any additional Unifi devices that you add later on.

      They've literally just become available, so they're not cheap (and I wouldn't expect sales any time soon) - but they're definitely great:

      • themadman on 22/11/2019 - 16:47

        Yeah, well and truly out of my price range and at that price I imagine it'll not drop below $300 for a loooong time. I guess it is an AP, router and switch all in one so not that bad value. What is "aged" about the USG though, out of curiosity? I imagine they still do regular firmware updates?

        • trankillity on 22/11/2019 - 17:32
          +1

          The USG is running on a very old processor that isn't capable of doing all the advanced features that it supports AND running at a decent WAN speed. When you enable IPS/IDS (for preventing external attacks to your network), it caps the internet speed at 85mb/s and runs at about 60 degrees celcius (the whole unit) whenever under load. While this may not be a problem for Australian internet right now with caps of 100mb/s, there is the possibility of many NBN service providers offering 1gbps/20mbps plans for anyone on HFC/FTTP/FTTC within a year.

          Until very recently, it also wasn't able to do deep packet inspection, as well as IPS/IDS, as well as QoS/Smart Queues at the same time either. Thankfully they managed to squeeze that functionality out in a firmware upgrade.

          They are still doing quite frequent firmware upgrades, and I don't expect they'll stop any time soon as there's no real alternative product in their Unifi range at that price point.

          If you wanted a middle ground that has easy expansion options later (and is even easier to configure), you might even be interested in the Ubiquiti Amplifi range, or even the Google Nest Wifi range. The Nest Wifi even has built in Google Nest Mini devices in each puck if that floats your boat.

          • themadman on 22/11/2019 - 18:32

            @trankillity: Hmmm, I see your point. Unless I can get it pretty cheap, I don't really want to buy it only to have to fork out more in a few years for a speed upgrade. To be fair though, I assume most basic routers don't have IPS anyway, and I'll be ok for basic security even with it turned off? I'm hardly

            Does this limit apply only to external network access? ie. I assume internal traffic such as IOT camera feeds and file transfers won't be impeded by IPS filtering.

            • trankillity on 23/11/2019 - 11:26
              +1

              @themadman: IoT cameras are, by their very nature, external. So they would be affected by IPS filtering. If you just mean IP Cameras, then they won't be affected.

              But the speed throttling doesn't just occur when using IPS/IDS - if you turn on Smart Queues as well (their version of QoS which is probably the most important feature), you'll also be limited to 85mb/s.

      • incipient on 22/11/2019 - 16:50
        +1

        The UDM is an interesting item. It's a one-shot SOHO device. Could see some adoption, just not at that price! So it's a bit hard for me to recommend just yet.

        On the USG. You're right it is a bit old, and the lack of PoE input annoys me more than it should. In terms of slow, it's still ok. If you have IPS turned on it caps at about 85mbps. We're using telstra 50/20 so have no issues, and a lot of 100/40 connections will likely get 92mbps or so. So there is a bit of a haircut there… But for a device you can pick up for about $130, I think it's pretty damn good! Or just turn off IPS and you're fine!

        For me the main advantage of the AP/router(USG)/switch set up is the fact they ARE separate. Firstly for updates. Upgrade your router firmware? OK lose internet for a bit, but your LAN keeps working fine! Wireless playing up? Restart the AP and your wired devices don't miss a beat. Also for replacement. Switch fails? Just replace that! Keep the rest. Feel like upgrading to an wifi-AX capable AP? No need to replace the switch/router!

        • trankillity on 22/11/2019 - 17:25

          Yeah, for sure. I would have much preferred they just upgrade the USG for a better processor and built-in CloudKey, but no love there :(

        • arkdog on 24/03/2020 - 13:56

          I know this is an old thread - but I'm looking at a UDM right now - trying to assess on a $530 price point. Thoughts?
          SCRATCH THAT - I see it's been down in 400s, so I answered my own question

          • incipient on 24/03/2020 - 15:07
            +1

            @arkdog: With our dollar collapsing, may not come down to that again. But on topic the UDM is a good simple one-shot device. If you want set and forgot it's good, but you pay a premium.

            • arkdog on 26/03/2020 - 13:12

              @incipient: Thanks for the response - I might just do it.
              You're not wrong RE: aussie dollar - $540 might be quite ok, given I was looking at spending $300 on an asus simplex one.

  • shagaroo on 22/11/2019 - 16:32

    This is my set up at home:

    Optus Modem -> UniFi Security Gateway (Router) -> UniFi Switch 16 (150W).

    2 AC Pros and the Unifi Cloud Key hang off the switch. The Cloud Key is optional - just run the controller software off a PC or Raspberry Pi

  • philliphs on 22/11/2019 - 16:40
    +2

    Based on my personal experience, Unifi gear will give you better experience, possibly save you money down the line as they are very solid in terms of stability, hence you probably don't need to change it for many many years, unless you are looking super fast and most recent technology like wifi 6 etc.

    Unifi gears comprise of 4 elements (which in normal router are crammed into 1 device). I'm simplifying it but in easy way to understand.
    1. USG - this is the part that connects to NBN modem. It is the gateway for all internet traffic. You can have unifi system without this (optional, though I wouldn't recommend not having it). Internet connection stability depends on this thing. You can use your existing router to act as the USG.
    2. AP - this is the part that broadcast the wifi signal. Instead of your normal router, this solely handle the spread of your wifi signal. They provide better signal stability to your internet system. You can use just the AP with your mobile phone to set up, but that just beat the whole purpose of Unifi system. One more thing, the APs can connect to each other using mesh network, means you don't have to pull LAN cables. Just connect the APs where there is power point (though the speed depends on the signal strength between the APs). You will need at least 2 APs to do this, with one being the main one and the other are 'extending' the signals.
    3. Controller - this is the brain that controls all other equipments (USG, AP, switches etc), and make all the parts work in cohesion. This is a must to run compete unifi system. Unifi sells their dedicated cloud controller that runs 24 hours. It's a set up and forget device. If you want to save some money, and have the expertise, you can download the controller software and run it in any computer (your PC, raspberry phi etc). The controller does not need to run all the time just during set up, except if you want to have guest portal access (then you will need the controller to run all the time).
    4. The switches - this is optional as well, but having it provides general system stability. They are managed switch, which means all the traffic are monitored with all the bells and whistles. The switches possibly can save you some money for cable installation as they provide PoE (power over Ethernet - essentially power over the LAN cable). They can power the APs (you don't need power connection), cameras, the controller etc. You can use cheap unmanaged switch (non PoE) but it won't power your device and won't monitor your traffic and any other advanced networking system).

    The main advantages for home user over the consumer based router is all the tasks are handled by different equipments, making in stable as rock. Where as the consumer all in one router crams multitask 4 different roles, and they choke most of the time. This is why they require multiple restarts over certain period of time.

    I'm not professional but this is based on my experience. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    • themadman on 22/11/2019 - 17:01

      Cheers for the write up! :) So realistically I could just get the AP and hook it up to my current router and it'd work? My current router issues stem mostly from wireless connectivity dropouts (not due to distance), so this could be a decent temporary fix. That'd let me buy pieces as I could afford them too, which is nice.

      Also, I imagine using the AP's as repeaters is also worse than just hooking them both up to your Router? More convenient in a rental environment though, that's for sure.

      Thanks for the heads up on POE as well, didn't realise you could power the AP's using ethernet exclusively. Super handy! Is the same true for most smart home security cameras? If so, seems like a handy thing to have.

      • incipient on 22/11/2019 - 17:15
        +1

        If it's just a wireless issue, you can just tack on an AP for now as a cheap(er) fix! They technically CAN be configured without a controller too! Acceptable way to go for a standalone controller (I think this has to be done over SSH?).

        Generally you shouldn't be using APs as a repeater. Either plugged in with ethernet (or over powerline) or using a mesh setup if you need to extend without cables.

        PoE is amazing, especially for APs as you just run one cable. Cameras will generally support PoE too. PoE works by using a spare pair on an ethernet cable. For PoE there are 4 different types:
        1) Passive-PoE; using an 'injector' (google images) it just applies a permanent voltage to the pair, if the other end wants it or not.
        2) PoE af: one type of PoE protocol. Negotiated from both ends to ensure it delivers power only when needed.
        3) PoE at: another spec like af above.
        4) Proprietary Standards: Cisco has some. Otherwise not super relevant.

        • arkdog on 26/03/2020 - 13:14

          Another question for you…sorry!
          Outside of cameras, what major use would I have for PoE?
          (I'm the one thinking of a dream machine FYI - which naturally, I'd need to manage another device if i wanted to do PoE)

          • incipient on 26/03/2020 - 14:05
            +1

            @arkdog: Haha no worries; all questions are good! For a business, there is a good use case - remote access points and phones. A powered switch in a server room, connected to an AP on the ceiling and phones around the office. Only need to run a single blue cable and saves a lot of GPOs/power bricks.

            For home use? Less valuable. 99% of people would only have a wireless router, no AP. But even if you do have a single AP somewhere, chances are it'll be near a GPO. remote cameras are the big use case for PoE at home.

            • arkdog on 26/03/2020 - 18:28

              @incipient: Thanks! This settles it for me.

              When I want to add cameras, I can get one of the ubiquiti PoE switches.

        • shagaroo on 30/03/2020 - 19:54

          If you want to run the controller 24/7, another way is to put in on Google Cloud. There is a free option I believe. See this guide.

      • philliphs on 22/11/2019 - 17:16
        +1

        Yes it will work. You'll have to set up from unifi app on your mobile phone. This won't give you as much control as having a cloud controller. Keep in mind the wifi dropout also stems from the inability of the router to handle the load. I have a friend who use their existing set up, using only APs with mixed result. He was still having dropouts and ended up getting the whole system.

        Yes you are correct. Cables are much more reliable for backbone connections.

        You can power security cameras which has the PoE capability. Unifi has their own cameras and recorder (no mixed brand). But other brands with PoE capability will still able to use power from unifi switches. You can also use unifi camera system with other brand PoE switches.

  • Bystander on 22/11/2019 - 20:08

    For my needs I just bought a single Unifi AP and plugged it into my modem. c$110 is all I spent. The controller sw sits on my Mac and it gives me a ton of controls. If I ever move somewhere bigger I'll just buy another AP.

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