Coronavirus Epidemic COVID-19 (formerly 2019-nCoV) Mega Thread

Mega Thread for COVID-19 discussions (Description Updated 30/3/20)

For more information about COVID-19. Please use this thread for any general discussions about COVID-19, rather than making a new thread. Also see below for other specific/related threads.

Related links:

Health.gov.au - General information
Coronavirus Australia - Apple App
Coronavirus Australia - Android App
COVIDsafe Contact Tracing app for Apple
COVIDSafe Contact Tracing app for Android

Other Specific Discussion Threads:

Covid Safe App Megathread - Wearing Masks -Wearing Masks 2 - Shops with Masks
Lockdown Activities - Lockdown Tips & Tricks - Lockdown Deals - Lockdown - Entertaining Kids - Shopping List -
Hand Sanitiser - Expired Hand Sanitisers - Cheap Sanitiser
Reporting Price Gougers - Punishing Price Gougers - Retailers & Empty Shelves - Retailers & Empty Shelves 2 - Infected Goods from China - Raising EFTPOS Limits - Amazon US Warehouse Only Re-stocking Medical & Staples - Reselling Lysol Wipes
AMA with a Doctor - Parcel Delays - Buying/Selling Home - - Gym - House Inspections - Private Health Insurance - Energy Providers
Overseas Travel - Singapore Airport Closed - QLD Border Closed - Flying to Closed Country - Flying to NZ - Flying to Tasmania
Hotels.com Refund - 3rd Party OTA Refunds - BYOJet, Aunt Betty Changes/Refunds - Groupon Refund - Travel Insurance - Travel Insurance 2
Schools/Universities - Keeping Kids at Home - Keeping Kids at Home 2
Your Job - Work from Home Companies - Pay Cut - Qantas Staff - Tips to Protecting Yourself (Financially)
What Steps should government take to better control COVID-19

Other:

OzBargain's Guide to Self Isolation (Deals & More)
Deals for Healthcare Workers


Mod: Original Description (From Jan 2020):

Placed this in the travel category as it related to travelling to China and, at present, a few affected nations.

Despite control measures put in place by the Chinese government, confirmed cases of COVID-19 are rising rapidly and spreading across the states. As of this post there are 585 confirmed cases and almost 400 suspected cases across 29 states/territories of China. 17 have since lost their lives.

I only know that Sydney has set up health monitoring stations for any Wuhan-Sydney direct flights, but with this spread it may come from anywhere.

Aside from protecting oneself by delaying/cancelling trips to China, what should we do as Australians? Should we be expecting greater monitoring of ones health from other major hubs other than Sydney? Should this be mandated for all flights from China, or just all incoming passengers in general? (This is a standard practice in some airports around the world).

Prevention is better than a cure, but are we in a place to prevent an outbreak?

(Not trying to use fearmongering, just better safe than sorry)

E: As of 25th January, Melbourne has Australia's first confirmed COVID-19 case.
E2: Also 25th January, Sydney has 3 confirmed cases.
E3: Avg incubation period of 10 days. Source:Translation
E4: Asymptomatic infection appears possible (Meaning it is contagious without symptoms).
Another paper thanks to @MissG

Comments

                            • -1 vote

                              @Vote for Pedro:

                              Lockdowns do not work for all things

                              But lockdowns in general can and do prevent more deaths?

                              Like less cars on the road means less vehicle deaths. Less people interacting with each other would mean less assaults and murders.

                              • +2 votes

                                @ozhunter: Coronary heart disease is the leading underlying cause of death in Australia, followed by dementia including Alzheimer disease. Cerebrovascular disease (which includes stroke), lung cancer and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) make up the top 5 leading underlying causes of death in Australia in 2018, for males and females of all ages combined.

                                Lockdowns will not help with any of these. Stop trying to oversimplify things to force your argument. Like i said, it’s not as simple as yes no or black white. There is nuance. I understand deniers like to make it a yes no discussion and diversion.

                                • -2 votes

                                  @Vote for Pedro: You're the one that wants to continue the lockdown until there is 0 covid deaths, right?

                                  I'm saying why wouldn't you want to continue the lockdown if it lowers other causes of death, even if it is just by 1.

                          • -1 vote

                            @ozhunter: If we wait until it's at 0, most of the deaths will be from suicide, people losing jobs, houses etc.

                            Will also be lowering road safety related deaths, everyone in Vic has to stay home so they can't crash their cars, or get hit by a bus. Everyone can ver safe forever in their little bubble!

                          • +1 vote

                            @ozhunter:

                            Now don't you think we should continue the lockdown until all other causes of death are 0?

                            If car accidents were contagious, then yes.

                            But they're not. You're not comparing something that is comparable.

                            •  

                              @iDroid: Oh, this thread was only 10 days ago

                              If car accidents were contagious, then yes.

                              Doesn't need to be contagious for a lockdown to reduce the deaths.

                              If he is saying we should be lockdown until the deaths are 0, then there are so so many other areas of our daily lives where we could have restrictions so we minimize deaths.

                              I mean, we could just outright ban it. That would reduce the death toll, but we don't. We see it as an acceptable risk, even if people die.

                              PS(the flu is contagious and kills more people each annually than covid has in Australia)

                              •  

                                @ozhunter: They are just not comparable.

                                I car accident does not increase the dangers after it is cleaned up and done.

                                1 infection could infect every Australian.

                                It just doesn't make sense to compare these "what-if's"

                                •  

                                  @iDroid:

                                  They are just not comparable.

                                  Comparable in the sense that they are both causing deaths. If 0 is too many for covid, then it should be for everything else. It isn't though as people are willing to accept the risk so we can enjoy the benefits it has on our way of living.

                                  •  

                                    @ozhunter:

                                    Comparable in the sense that they are both causing deaths.

                                    There's more to consider though.

                                    They're just not comparable.

                                    •  

                                      @iDroid:

                                      There's more to consider though.

                                      Yes, yes there is, lol

                                  •  

                                    @ozhunter:

                                    Comparable in the sense that they are both causing deaths. If 0 is too many for covid, then it should be for everything else.

                                    The issue is that the argument is not really for zero deaths, but achieving zero additional deaths through having near zero cases.

                                    The idea is not about avoiding the initial deaths, but stopping the spread so the death toll doesn't continue to rise exponentially.

                                    The rate of increase in deaths from non action with Covid is exponential. The rate of increase in deaths from non action from car accidents (or any of your examples) is zero or linear at worst. They are so different. Comparing them make as much sense as questioning the marital status of the number five.

          •  

            @tshow: Slippery-slope argument is not valid.

            •  

              @Tunblor: Not a slippery slope argument, althought I agree that it can be misconstrued as an argument for precedence.

              It was more to do with definition of "too many deaths".

        •  

          It is unfortunate that a small number of Australians have died with COVID. However, the damage caused by the measures implemented by the government is far more destructive to more Australians than COVID.

          • +3 votes

            @whooah1979: Yes a small number of Australians have died BECAUSE of the restrictions. Otherwise we’d be like the US

      •  

        So how many people should be allowed to die?

        • -3 votes

          Nobody is purposely allowing people to die with COVID.

          VIC is in lockdown while NSW isn’t. If lockdowns work then why is VIC still recording higher tolls from people with covid than NSW?

          • +3 votes

            @whooah1979: Victoria had an easing of restrictions and is now in lockdown to reduce the spike. I walk around Sydney and am gobsmacked how few people are following the rules. Honestly, I suspect we have low numbers from sheer luck than anything else.

            • -1 vote

              @Vote for Pedro:

              Honestly, I suspect we have low numbers from sheer luck than anything else.

              Lol, or covid has just been exaggerated or that others possibly like their freedom.

          • +1 vote

            @whooah1979:

            If lockdowns work then why is VIC still recording higher tolls from people with covid than NSW?

            You can still die if you're wearing a seatbelt. Does that mean you shouldn't wear one?

            •  

              @ssquid: There haven't been any reports of people dying with COVID because they didn't wear a seatbelt.

              • +1 vote

                @whooah1979: I think you'll find practically 100% of COVID fatalities weren't wearing seatbelts.

      •  

        The lockdowns on the other hand is causing high unemployment and long term disruptions to Australian’s economy

        What a load of BS.

        The UK/US didn't have heavy lockdowns at all and their GDP are down 20% and 30%. Mixed with lots of death and no control over COVID spreading.

        Compared to NZ/AU who did much heavier lockdowns are seeing GDP reductions of under 10%. Australia had a 7% GDP reduction

        •  

          Did they also hand out billions willy nilly? Jobseeker and jobkeeper have to end at some point…

          Although according to some economists, we can just keep paying them out forever with no I'll effects.

          •  

            @brendanm:

            Did they also hand out billions willy nilly?

            There had been many rounds of hand outs in the USA, including one of the largest ever, $2 trillion dollars. So yeah most taxpayers in the USA will get a check from the $2tn economic package, the largest in US history! Compared to Australia that only a select few got a handout.

            https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/us-coronavirus...

    • -2 votes

      Should have never locked down in the first place or at least for only a couple weeks.

      Can still do all the washing hands, sanitizing, and social distancing without locking down.

      • +2 votes

        People had MEANT to be doing all those things, but yet cases boomed to over 700/day. So yeah nah.

        •  

          but yet cases boomed to over 700/day

          and…

          More people have died from the flu each year, and yet there's no lockdown.

          •  

            @ozhunter:

            More people have died from the flu each year, and yet there's no lockdown.

            Not any more, more people have died from COVID than the flu this year. way more.

            Flu deaths are pretty nothing this year

            https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/coronavirus-restricti...

            • -1 vote

              @JimmyF: But the people that have died from Covid this year is less than than those that died from the flu each of the past years. way less

              Yet the response is no where near. I guess the flu just doesn't have a fancy name.

              • +1 vote

                @ozhunter:

                But the people that have died from Covid this year is less than than those that died from the flu each of the past years. way less

                Globally covid is the largest killer of people this year compared to anything else that kills us.

              • +2 votes

                @ozhunter: There is a vaccine for flu. I get it every year. Lockdown is not needed as a vaccine is available

                No vaccine for covid. Id prefer not to catch it, so am happy with lockdowns

          • +2 votes

            @ozhunter:

            Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%. However, mortality is to a large extent determined by access to and quality of health care. (Source: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2....)

            There is a big difference between COVID-19 and the flu, which is why it's being tackled differently.

            What's more, unlike the flu, for which there is a vaccine, everyone in the population is theoretically susceptible to COVID-19. So while the flu affects 8% of the U.S. population every year, according to the CDC, between 50% and 80% of the population could be infected with COVID-19, according to a study published March 30 in the journal The Lancet. In the U.S., that would translate to 1 million deaths from COVID-19 if half the population becomes infected and there are no social distancing measures or therapeutics, the Post reported. (Source: https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu...)

            This is based on American numbers but still relevant. More people can get COVID-19 with a higher mortality rate. That's why it's so serious.

          • +1 vote

            @ozhunter:

            More people have died from the flu each year, and yet there's no lockdown.

            That's not true based on the stats in my state. If anything there has been a decline in confirmed influenza cases in the last couple of years. Thanks to COVID most people have received both flu shots instead of just 1 this year.

            You can see the line for 2020 going flat for when our lockdown started and has continued to stay flat with our borders closed to non-essential.

            • -1 vote

              @Clear:

              If anything there has been a decline in confirmed influenza cases in the last couple of years

              And we didn't need a lockdown.

              • +2 votes

                @ozhunter: That's right we didn't because influenza is nothing compared to COVID in severity.

                • -1 vote

                  @Clear: Well it has caused more deaths for years in a row…so there's that

                  • +2 votes

                    @ozhunter: Not everywhere.

                    • -1 vote

                      @Clear: But In Australia, the country we live in.

                      • +1 vote

                        @ozhunter: The federal government doesn't decide lockdowns for each state though. Why should one state having significantly less influenza cases each year be subjected to the same restrictions as those who don't?

              •  

                @ozhunter: I wonder why an island with closed borders didn't need a lockdown…

      •  

        And have a result just like the USA?

        Sounds fantastic, I can't wait!

    • +1 vote

      The United States currently has

      The United States is NOT a country you want to be aiming to be like for COVID.

      How many people should be allowed to die in Australia if restrictions are relaxed?

      None….. But at a guess you have no family/friends in the high risk groups, so you see that as acceptable if someone you don't know dies.

      Put it this way, would you willing die so everyone else can go about as 'normal'?

      •  

        Oops, someone is jumping to false conclusions. I’m for an elimination strategy. Hard lockdowns like NZ is my preference

        • -1 vote

          Your post is written in a way you seem to justify having more death than we currently have, not less.

          •  

            @JimmyF: Well, that's just, like, your opinion man

            •  

              @Vote for Pedro: No thats your poorly worded question.

              • +1 vote

                @JimmyF: The question: “ How many people should be allowed to die in Australia if restrictions are relaxed?”

                A possible answer: “Too many already, let’s keep the lockdown for elimination”

                Definitely suggests I’m for the US model. I see that now.

    •  

      Who is voting for elimination?

      Elimination wont happen until a vaccine happens.

      So vic stays locked down until mid 2021 ?

      • +2 votes

        New Zealand has implemented an elimination strategy to control the COVID-19 pandemic. Compared with the mitigation and suppression approaches used in most western countries, elimination can minimise direct health effects and offers an early return to social and economic activity free from the constraints of circulating Sars-CoV-2 virus. Elimination requires highly effective border controls, contact tracing and quarantine measures, high levels of testing and surveillance, and an initial period of intense physical distancing (lockdown) to extinguish virus transmission.

        • +1 vote

          Didn't work though, they said they'd eliminated it and started going back to normal and boom, new cases. Now they're back to restrictions. Rinse and repeat forever.
          It is not a feasible solution.

          • +1 vote

            @ssquid: Works better than here. At least they know the goal and whats needed.

            They were virtually living normal lives between periods and could go hard and fast by region

            •  

              @Vote for Pedro: It hasn't worked here because a certain government let people come back into the country, into slum towers with people packed in like sardines. They also let security guards fraternise with people who were locked up for covid quarantine, and then refused outside help.

    •  

      One of the articles I've read recently is the people who died are either the elderly or otherwise obese.

      Some people hold the staunch view that a death should be prevented at any cost. And in the case of covid, many people's livelihoods are ruined just to extend the lives of some by a few extra years.

      I've got a chronic illness myself and I support some reasonable restrictions, but not locking down nearly the whole of the State.

      Edit: and I should add that whenever I went to get takeaway at a small shopping area, it was often the elderly milling around, or chatting with each other (and they're not waiting for takeaway). And they should be the ones who should be taking extra care, yet they often are the ones flouting the rules with social distancing which then makes me even less agreeable with worrying about their deaths if they don't care about themselves.

      • +3 votes

        so it's okay if someone who's old, fat, diabetic, etc, who is otherwise expected to live a perfectly normal life for many years to come, to die prematurely?

        it might surprise you but you could find that a lot more of your friends and family fall into these categories than you know.

    • +9 votes

      It’s all: “open it up, let the economy recover! It’s just a version of the flu that kills people every year already…” right up until they catch it or a family member catches it and causes that family member a severe case of the deaths.

      Then it’s all: “Why didn’t the government lock down the community and protect my *insert family member* from this virus… 1 death is too many…”

  •  

    Well that was a nice way to kill an active robust discussion @ mods

    •  

      Over the last 9 months this discussion has gone from what if to hell and back… I should have just stayed in China, things seem normal over there now and have been for months.

      •  

        Majority of the reports sound great.

        I wonder if it has anything to do with the mass expulsion of foreign reporters.

        •  

          Or you could have friends in China who tell you first hand that it’s fine. Disneyland is packed. I cant trust news here either it’s all Murdoch trash trying to appeal to certain types of viewers. Need to dissect every piece.

          • +3 votes

            @ATangk: My Chinese friends also tells me it is fine.

            They also told me that there are no reeducation camps in Xingjiang, Hong Kong got what it deserved and censorship is important for national security.

            (He doesn't believe any of it. Sarcasm was heavily implied but he needs to be safe.)

            •  

              @tshow: There’s no need to enforce western values to a non western culture. Look how well it’s going in the Middle East.

              • +1 vote

                @ATangk: Freedom of speech/press.

                If you don't want that "western value", what's the point of talking about what's happening in China? All you can know about the place with what is approved by the state.

                •  

                  @tshow: Freedom of press? Murdoch controls so much it’s just a figure of speech that it’s freedom. You only get to see what they want you to see.

                  Democracy we have now is not democracy as most people think it is, it’s just run by those with money. Especially with so many bots on the internet, promoting ones agenda is easier than ever. Why do you think there are so many dictatorships rising up around the world.

                  •  

                    @ATangk: We should build a great firewall around our internet to keep the bots out… oh wait…

                    •  

                      @ssquid: You clearly haven't been paying attention. It was to keep out the digital rabbits.

                      But what I'm getting at is that misinformation is everywhere, and for everything else.. theres mastercard.

        • -3 votes

          lul, it is fine, believe it or not, it's probably the safest place on earth if you don't want catch COVID19. Shanghai,home to 25 million, only reported 750 cases since the beginning, Disney Park is open, cinema is open, the only hint of covid is that masks are mandatory on public transits.In comparison, I just wonder what the flip is Victorian doing? Anti-lockdown protest, BLM protest, lockdown after lockdown, protest after protest, really?

      •  

        fly out before you hit the 6 months mark?

        •  

          I flew out in February.

  •  

    It’s about time someone is held legally responsible for the effects of the lockdowns.
    https://apple.news/AT72iobIZSD2rm4QTstOzeA

    • +1 vote

      China?

  •  
    Merged from Donald Trump tested positive for coronavirus, what's your thought?

    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/don...

    What r u guys thought?
    What are the impacts to the election and Australia?
    He deserve it
    Not really bother me
    A sense of sympathy

    •  

      Covfidfid

    •  

      Bleach anyone?

      •  

        Can we get the light in there? I hear great things about light.

    •  

      I guess trash people will be celebrating this.

      It wouldn’t surprise me though if it’s some kind of “4D Chess” or whatever the meme is.

      •  

        I doubt the families of 208 847 deceased due to Covid-19, in the USA, think that this some kind of “4D Chess”.

        •  

          He probably is infected, but out of however many millions of people there are in the US that lost loved ones, you don’t think any of them will be claiming he is just saying it so that he can make a quick “recovery”?

          • +1 vote

            @mapax: With Trump and his campaign nothing is 'off the table'. If he does have it, as widely reported in the US media, he could be in for a hard time given his demographic and health/lifestyle (again all based on hearsay).

            •  

              @DashCam AKA Rolts: I just saw that people are already claiming he isn’t infected with their conspiracy theories but they’re not being facetious. Some of the claims I’ve heard include “avoiding the next debates”, “getting sympathy”, “his polls are bad so he wants to pull out of the running for president”.
              I was meant to be joking about “4D Chess”…

        • -2 votes

          208 847 died with covid, not because of it.

    •  

      Everyone at the debate has to get tested now.

      • +1 vote

        That wasn't a debate, it was a debacle.

    •  

      all good, he's got his injections of bleach to flush it out of his system

      •  

        The Hydroxy…chloroquine.
        He claimed to be taking that.
        Worked a treat I hear.

  • +1 vote
    • +1 vote

      My favourite reddit comment was something along the lines of….

      Trump is high risk. Elderly, overweight and low income status.

    • +1 vote

      All the downvotes to anyone who doesn't agree covid is the most dangerous thing ever found 🤣

      • +1 vote

        I thought Trump was the most dangerous thing ever found.

        But I guess the Covid-19 has Trump'd Trump.

  •  

    Anyone got a recent deal/link for some masks?

    I bought these last time (https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B089LXRHJF/ref=ppx_yo_d...), unless someone can share something better?

  •  
    Merged from What Happens if There Is Never a Vaccine for Covid-19

    I never hear anyone discussing long-term issues surrounding the closure of state borders and international borders.

    Most states want a 28-day COVID free timeframe before reopening, but I can't see how that will ever happen, not in the next 6-12 months at least for the major states that have over 1 million people.

    Do you think we will move a suppression strategy, rather than this elimination ridiculousness?

    What are your thoughts?

    •  

      nothing. human will still lives.. the death toll is not significant to wife humanity from earth

    •  

      I treat it as the new Influenza it ain't going away.

    •  

      To early to say one way or another. Wait and see if the upcoming vaccines work on a large scale. Two issues with eliminating the virus assuming it works: people who are worried about the side effects of the vaccines and the anti-vaccine community.

    •  

      Funeral business will bloom

  •  

    Uk scientists are starting to concede that Covid-19 could become endemic and that any vaccines will not offer full protection from the virus.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-disease-not-likely-to...