• long running

Think Markets $8 Per Trade ASX HIN Support CHESS-Sponsored

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I've been using Selfwealth for my ASX trades because they are $9.50 per trade and HIN sponsored.

I just noticed that these guys are offering $8 trades and no other fees. 0.05% for trades above $200,000.

Support for real-time deposits via Poli. Limited to $1000 at this stage - will be raised at some point according to Reddit post.

Poli limit now $40,000 as per rep.

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Comments

  • +9 votes

    Reddit thread with some discussion on this

  •  

    I opened a self wealth account just last week. :(

  •  

    If it is solely broker fees impacting your decision - have you looked IG? https://www.ig.com/au/share-trading/charges
    Online rates: [ 0 to 2-trades ($8 / 0.1%) 3+ trades ($5 / 0.05%) whichever higher ] : month before

    • +29 votes

      Unfortunately, IG charges an inactivity fee if you don't do 3 transactions per month and is not CHESS/HIN sponsored.

      •  

        I think its if you have any open positions after every quarter. So it’s not really a good deal for investors looking to buy and hold. For traders its ok.

        • -4 votes

          Traders typically wouldn't care about CHESS sponsorship though

          • -4 votes

            @blighst: I would say CHESS sponsorship is essential for traders as if you are not, it could take months to receive the paper work to sell the shares again.

            •  

              @Nick939: No, IG and others aren't issuer sponsored, they're held through a custodian which keeps costs lower.

              You still buy and sell instantly, it's just that the shares aren't technically in your name

              •  

                @blighst: Yeah, but if it’s held through a custodian it would still be CHESS sponsored then, just held under a different name with the owner as a beneficial owner.

                •  

                  @Nick939: Yes, which is the IG and Interactive Brokers etc. model.

                  It's convention to refer to them as not CHESS sponsored as they're not CHESS sponsored in your name. The same issues with what happens if the brokerage was to go bust arise, but a trader should not really care as they're not in their positions for that long.

            •  

              @Nick939: Incorrect. IG/IB and any custodian, buy/sell is still instant as any CHESS. The difference is, they’re not under ur name. Pros (u don’t have to manage many registry account) & Cons (if ever they go bust).

              •  

                @hanofee: I don't know why everyone is so confused. Custodian is CHESS sponsored, therefore CHESS sponsorship is essential for instant trading.

      •  

        Where does it say this? The inactivity fee info I see kicks in after two years

          •  

            @abc: Thanks. Weird rule. You’re exempt if you’ve made 3 trades, or “Hold no open positions in your share trading account at the end of the quarter.”

            Open positions would be trades that haven’t been completed? So this fee doesn’t really apply unless you don’t use that account, but have set an unrealistic trade that just sits there for ages hoping for some dramatic price change or something.

      • +1 vote

        Agreed - CHESS/HIN sponsorship is important.

    •  

      In IG, you are trading CFDs, which is a derivative. The prices do not always reflect real price. And you do not own the shares. It is also different from custodian accounts. Only invest in chess/hin sponsored, unless you really know the CFD risks.

  •  

    Can you only place a trade if money is already cleared in their trading account? Or can you transfer in on settlement

    • +1 vote

      only cba offers T+2 , i think

      • +1 vote

        Westpac does as well

    •  

      From their Cash equities FAQ page:

      Do I need funds in the Trading Cash Account before I execute an order?

      Yes, funds must be available in the Trading Cash Account before placing a buy order. The order will fail if there are insufficient funds in the Trading Cash Account.

  • +1 vote

    Good to see competition. Hopefully Nabtrade brings down their international inactivity fee and lowers their brokerage

    • +7 votes

      touche with Commsec. They have free live data and the most stable platform but are a bloody ripoff.

      •  

        i realised recently how much of a ripoff Commsec is and about to transfer to selfwealth last week!

        •  

          How are Commsec a rip-off?

          • +5 votes

            @jaydn: People who want live data but don't want the fees.

            Those who want their cake and eat it at the same time.

          •  

            @jaydn: Commsec fees for trades above $1k are double, triple or even higher multiples of what selfwealth charges as per the table in the link
            https://www.selfwealth.com.au/online-trading/

  • +17 votes

    Good to see more competition but I’m not moving from SelfWealth for $1.50 less. I really like Selfwealth’s simplicity, and their focus on customers.

  • -2 votes

    There is one popular investment platform called Robinhood , how is this one compared with

    • +1 vote

      Robinhood is for US, this is for Aus

    •  

      When it is free you are just lucky they don't lose your cash. You will name your first born after them because trades go through.

      Race to the bottom only means one thing… Expect something to go wrong. There is no magic money tree that grows and funds everything.

      • +3 votes

        Not really, Robinhood sell your order flow through hedge funds and market makers who arb cents off your trade.

        The model only works because the cost of actually placing the trade is close to 0 in the US because of competition.

        • +1 vote

          Exactly. You are the product and magic money tree. Like Facebook is free to use.

      • +3 votes

        As someone who recently studied this, unfortunately we will never have free trades in OZ. Both Chi-X and ASX charge a sum for transaction. Unless you are able to offset that, we can't get free trading. In America because you have massive hedge funds with high frequency trading paying for preferred routing + some of the hedge funds paying first offer preference + some markets paying for trades, its possible. In Oz, we aint got the volume, competition and most importantly the infrastructure for innovation.

        Chi-X is the only real competitor to ASX. If we get more of these guys and some actual ETF guys willing to pay for preferential routing, we might get the final race to zero in our market too.

        • +1 vote

          Maybe do some more research… The US brokerages make more money from loaning out uninvested funds.

          https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-10/brokers-p...

          • +1 vote

            @brawndo: Or your super fund making money from lending out shares to short the market.

          • +1 vote

            @brawndo: Yeah, the reason I didn't mention that is because our brokers already do this to a certain extent. I was trying to point out the differences between the two financial markets.

            I mean, majority of the traders do this. Traders like IB, SelfWealth & Vanguard also allow to buy into their ETF's for free. They charge a management fee to maintain their ETF.

            https://www.vanguardinvestments.com.au/retail/ret/investment...

            Point is, there are multiple ways to do it but only a few differentiating markers between the 2 financial markets.

            Also, your own article states the same. The US brokerages make more money from payment to order flow. For Robinhood that is 70%.

            https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkauflin/2020/08/19/the-insi...

        • +1 vote

          Exactly my point. Someone is paying for your trade and it could very much be costing you.

  • +1 vote

    Does anyone know if think markets have live updates on watch lists? The thing that really annoys me with SW is that feature doesn’t exist whilst all the bank platforms do.

    •  

      I believe there is a 20 minute delay.

    • +2 votes

      It's because it costs SW money for the live data. Can't have everything

      •  

        Live data is a must have.

      •  

        If SW kept their $9.50 trades but included live data then people wouldn't even look at other platforms like OpenTrader!

        • +6 votes

          Actually you can get live data with SW. At the trade page. Click on market depth.

        • +1 vote

          Noob question…. but cant you just use you SW for trading and then have a dormant COMSEC amount to view live prices?

  •  

    Here come liquidity, like it when this happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbxjTzEbLmI

  •  

    Do they have share analyst ratings like SW has refinitiv in their premium subscription? If not - where do you guys get them?

  • +2 votes

    Do you know if they support Osko payments at all? Those instant transfers would be enough to make me change over.

    •  

      They support Poli, which is real time transfer as well. But only up to $1k right now.

      •  

        Osko? I guess you could do multiple Poli transfers?

      •  

        Now limit is 40k

    •  

      List of banks supporting Poli transfers.
      https://www.polipayments.com/Banks

      I've only used Osko payments though, which is automatic between compatible banks and results in an instant transfer. Is Poli the same?

      •  

        The banks don’t support Poli. It’s the other way around.

        Banks say poli isn’t secure and I agree. Even though they’ve been around for ages, I’d never put my bank password into a third party site.

  •  

    Poli limit now 40k!

  • +2 votes

    Anyone use / heard of superhero.com.au?

    $5 per trade, 9$ a month billed annually @$108.

    https://www.superhero.com.au/pricing

    Was in the news recently, backed by Zipmoney.

  •  

    Any comment on this compared with Selfwealth - is the app better? do they allow for stop losses? Is the data RT when placing a trade?

    • +1 vote

      Any feedback on thinkmarkets share trading would be good to hear.

      • +2 votes

        Run Away…Run fast
        I lost so much money using them, I wouldn't recommend using them.

        So many bugs in their trading system: it's not worth saving $1.50 on trading.
        1) No stop Loss so there is no limit on amount of money you lose
        2) When buying bigger amounts, number of shares does not display correctly most of the times, you have to chat with them to update them to correct number of shares, for some reason their system does not add them correctly so if you want to quick buy and sell you can't, in simple small amount of shares it might work but not for bigger amount. Does not happen all the times but happens frequently.
        3) As the shares displayed are incorrect app does not allow sell order for all the purchased shares it only allows for the number of shares displayed in the positions which are less than the actual, once you chat with them they will update the shares manually but it takes 1 or 2 days to update and you will have to chat with them to put the sell order by their internal system and those sell orders not listed in the app for you, i always add the shares in excel don't know what happens if you don't do that. Do they even realise their app is displaying incorrect shares unless you tell them, their internal system shows correct number of shares
        4) Partial orders does not fill the remaining amounts for the next day despite within the price range
        5) Despite what their website says you cannot put orders more than 100k as their system does not allow, you have to split the trades and they will add credit for the trading fee in second trade if you ask. And same when selling also, if selling amount exceeds 100k it does not allow.

        Brokerage Fee $8.00 Per trade below $200,000 (This should be below $100,000 as their system does not allow more than that through app)
        Brokerage Fee 0.05% Per trade above $200,000 (Not possible through App)

        6) UI Design not good, i ended up putting buy orders instead of sell orders and it happened few times and lost money because of that
        7) When placing buy orders order button does not work sometimes so when you click the button twice it creates two buy orders and without realising you will end up with 2 buy orders and end up buying unwanted shares
        8) Somethings are really weird, App allowed me to purchase CAN share but when i placed Sell order, order getting rejected with a message this stock is not allowed to trade in this platform. They have to manually place the order for me with their internal system
        9) Can't trade some ETFs for example ETPMAG, PMGOLD etc.
        10) Also the Macquarie Bank Statement notes does not look professional when you buy multiple shares as they does not make any sense. They just mix up the amount withdrawals from bank for example statement looks like CBA buy order 100 * 81= 25,000, it doesn't show withdraw amounts individually mix up and show some and doesn't show some. Even though actual amount of all the shares are correct the way it looks in bank statement is worst and unprofessional.

        • +1 vote

          One good thing is they have live support, with the number of issues they have it is must to have.

          This is one thing which Selfwealth lacks, even though they say they have live chat no one is online during trading hours so its more like a offline message

  •  

    Selfweath use OpenMarkets, Thinkmarkets is OpenMarkets' retail arm.

    Edit: I got this wrong. I was thinking of OpenTrader which is OpenMarkets' retail arm.

  •  

    Bookmark 👍

  • +2 votes

    I had a chat with Thinkmarkets online support and they reply to email support almost instantly which is good. Seems they support stop losses and instant POLI transfers. I could not confirm if they support Osko, but they use Macquarie.

    •  

      hi. how do you setup stop loss? TA