Will You Be Trying to Boycott Chinese Products?

Hey All

With the diplomatic row between Aus and China over the last few weeks culminating in the tweets from the Chinese embassy, there’s been an obvious rising of tensions between the countries.

Given how ridiculous and ironic china’s position is, to have the gall to call out Australia for human rights abuses do you feel more strongly about trying to avoid products manufactured in China?

The report itself was Australia holding itself to account, it could have easily been covered up never to see the light of day but Australia relative to the rest of the world is one with more integrity than that.

I don’t see how China could ever lecture a country like Australia when it comes to war crimes/human rights abuse given their long track record, most notably the persecution of the Uighur population as well numerous other violations ranging from censorship to imprisonment/torture of dissidents. I don’t see China holding itself to account for those crimes anytime soon.

I like the idea in theory of boycotting Chinese made products but the reality is unfortunately from my perspective is that the supply chain is far too integrated in China to be able to boycott anything. Hopefully western businesses are more incentivised now to move their supply chains away from China but that will a long and slow process over many years possibly decades.

So TLDR will you be trying to avoid Chinese made products or are we in a situation that these products are so pervasive with our current lifestyles there’s nothing we can really do at the moment.

Edit: Poll added. Good suggestion.

Poll Options

  • 839
    Yes I will and do avoid Chinese made products wherever I can
  • 34
    Yes but only if the equivalent product is the same price and quality
  • 332
    Would like to avoid but can’t because of limited choice/availability/price
  • 239
    Don’t care whatever’s cheapest
  • 131
    Don’t care at all and would still buy Chinese made even if there was a choice of equivalent produc

Comments

  • +25

    I was surprised by the Tariff being placed on Aussie Wine.
    Australia's largest wine company, Treasury Wine Estates, says its imports into China have been slugged with a massive 169.3 per cent tariff
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-30/treasury-wine-estates...

      • +69

        Because you don't tariff your own exports - that would be shooting yourself in the foot. If we tariffed China's exports to us that would start a trade war. Which would be a headache because Australia has a large trade surplus with them

        • +73

          We need to help Free China (ROC/KMT/Taiwan) liberate Communist China (PRC/CCP/Mainland).

          "It is better a hundred guilty persons should escape than one innocent person should suffer." – Benjamin Franklin

          "Better to kill a hundred innocent people than let one truly guilty person go free." – Chinese Communist Party

          • +48

            @Scrooge McDuck: For all the 50 cent army soldiers, this is what was hidden from you:

            Tiananmen Square 1989-6-4

            • +6

              @Scrooge McDuck: I don't see anything?

            • +1

              @Scrooge McDuck: What you got against fitty?

            • -105

              @Scrooge McDuck: I always had doubts in my mind about the events happened during the Tianamen Sqaure, all I ever see is places on fire and a few people runaway. I have been searching for footage for the MASS KILLING people are talking about like soldiers shooting through the crowds and kills many but there is none online. I am sure USA would have released it had they had any.

              There is also the clip of a man in front of the Tank which is very famous online, interesting thing is when he stood in front of the tank, the tank actually try to avoid him. And the solider didn't open the hatch until he climbed on it.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq8zFLIftGk

              CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THE SOLDIERS WILL DO IF THIS HAPPENS IN THE US???????

              I think (with bias) that Tiananmen Square is just a protest which got out of hand and the WEST Media made it looked a thousand times worse. Unless someone show me an actual mass killing video to convince me otherwise. My view will not change.

              By the way alot of these people who talks on camera end up with US citizenships. So if self interests are in there, how truthful can their statement be?

              • -61

                @Aerith-Waifu: Yes I agree with you. I had people from Hong Kong gave me photos about 89 movement and they thought these photos would shock me, but I saw them in Chinese TV at the time. You see student running away, but that all.

                There were so many western journalists at Tiananmen Square at the time, none of them catched anything more than students running away. Not to mention many students had camera.

                That photo of tankman and video was broadcasted in China at the time. That man is brave but at the same time it also shown tank driver/soldier were very professional and restraining to him

              • +24

                @Aerith-Waifu: NSFL/NSFW

                Might get in trouble for this pls don't ban me mods just tell me it's not okay and delete my comment:

                Go here and look through the links in the comments if you want to actually see the massacre:
                https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/gw2y6b/the_real_p...

              • +12

                @Aerith-Waifu:

                I always had doubts in my mind about the events happened during the Tianamen Sqaure, all I ever see is places on fire and a few people runaway. I have been searching for footage for the MASS KILLING people are talking about like soldiers shooting through the crowds and kills many but there is none online. I am sure USA would have released it had they had any.

                I think (with bias) that Tiananmen Square is just a protest which got out of hand and the WEST Media made it looked a thousand times worse. Unless someone show me an actual mass killing video to convince me otherwise. My view will not change.

                I always had doubts in my mind about the events happened during the Nanjing Massacre (AKA: R__e of Nanjing), all I ever see is places on fire and a few people runaway. I have been searching for footage for the MASS KILLING/R__E people are talking about like soldiers shooting through the crowds and kills many but there is none online. I am sure CHINA would have released it had they had any.

                I think that the Nanjing Massacre is just a protest which got out of hand and the CHINESE Media made it looked a thousand times worse. Unless someone show me an actual mass killing/r__e video to convince me otherwise. My view will not change.

                If the above offended you (and it rightly should), you should take a long hard look at yourself.

            • +13

              @Scrooge McDuck:

              For all the 50 cent army soldiers,

              Actually it's 80 cents now.

              https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1249365366930919429...

              Selling all those organs and scamming nations with the belt & road have paid off

              • -27

                @Blitzfx: Can you read Chinese? I can and I can tell you those post topic look like posted by someone who can thrown mud on China, like some post saying nursing home is living hell. Chinese government employs people to thrown mud on itself!!!

                • +15

                  @jowu15: Doesn't matter who posted it. It's called evidence. Something China doesn't believe in.

                  • -10

                    @Blitzfx: wrong, most Chinese believe in what happened in tianan Square.

                    but western media like to add toppings or cut corners to mud China other than showing the whole picture or telling the story behind

            • -23

              @Scrooge McDuck: typical western double standards.

              how about aboriginal massacre?

              shit happend 150 years ago is too long ago to remember? or because no real footage makes it does not count? or wiping out nearly a whole country population makes people hard to tell who are the real foreigners?

              where is the human rights here?

              history is history, just like what happened in tianan Square. Mao is gone, but shits happening in Afghanistan is today.

              • +19

                @ghostdom: Classic case of whataboutism.

                • +26

                  @Griffindinho: Just to add, Australia (Kevin Rudd) also acknowledged and apologised for it in a lengthy address to the nation.
                  China buried their massacre and arrest people who talk about it lol.

            • @Scrooge McDuck: And the crazy thing is people don't think this can happen here…

              or even, that it couldn't be happening… right now

          • @Scrooge McDuck: Just wondering where did you get that quote? Couldn't find anything when searching.

          • @Scrooge McDuck: It is too late Mr Dan already signed deals with CCP for cheap fiat $

          • -3
          • +9

            @Scrooge McDuck:

            We need to help Free China (ROC/KMT/Taiwan) liberate Communist China (PRC/CCP/Mainland).

            Yes, it's pretty lame when free democratic countries condemn China's human rights abuses, among other issues, but then refuse to recognise Taiwan as an independent country. The Nationalist Chinese have been there since before WW2. The communists have NEVER been there. They don't have a leg to stand on in their "give us our land" attitude…

            • -17

              @papachris: Since when Taiwan is a country???
              Why people always want to get in other country's domestic affairs???

              • +3

                @lily99: because of emotions , and it gives the media something to talk about.

                imagine coming from another country , visiting or settling here and all your friends and family talk about whats going on in your home country.

                you feel helpless , because the people close to you are suffering , the only thing you can do to help is protest and use social media to try to support those close to you.

                in the end you don't achieve anything , its just a lot of huffing and puffing and wasting your own time and energy , its basically people wanting to "feel" like they have a purpose when the reality is they don't have any , but most people like to believe in something no matter how little it is to someone else.

                at the end of the day its just sunk cost fallacy because the reality of it is , hundreds of thousands of people based in another country cannot dictate or change anything that is happening half way across the world no matter how much they huff and puff. the only thing it does is cause chaos for the local citizens while they have to endure people who just "want to have a say".

              • +2

                @lily99:

                Why people always want to get in other country's domestic affairs???

                Yeah, right? I don't understand why people/government of PRC feels they have any saying on what Taiwan/ROC is doing?

              • @lily99: Since Taiwan said they are a country.

                Taiwan is the real China - the CCP on the mainland are the interlopers.

          • @Scrooge McDuck: I don't think the CCP spoke English.

          • @Scrooge McDuck: Where did c2p quote that?

        • They need the iron ore for their extensive belt & road project. Taxing something they need from us is playing tit for tat like they are. But, yes Xi will be very happy with not taxing it and getting it for cheap.

          • +2

            @jdf: you'd be delusional to think China is dependent from our iron ore, iron is cheap as chip and every second country has it in abundance. The issue is not iron or coal or cherry but Western democracy's fault in turning a blind eye to China to get everything done on the cheap and China has become a major force. Boycott whatever you like but it's probably too late.

            • +1

              @lgacb08: Yeah sure it's one of the most common elements in the world but it comes down to where it's actually economical to mine. Australia has the cheapest and highest quality iron in the world. The Chinese could get it elsewhere but would be far more expensive (and hence hurt their own economy) or get it from a poor African country where there is historically a large sovereign risk making the supply unreliable.

            • +2

              @lgacb08: Nope. I work is this industry. Iron ore is everywhere but not at the quantities and quality that makes it viable to use. China, for instance has loads of iron ore but it's of very low quality - roughly 20%. Australia delivers the 62% Pilbara blend into China at the best price and at very low risk to China - which is why the love it so much. They have geared their steel mills to use it. The only other country that can deliver it into China at the quantities that they need is Brazil. Australia and Brazil control the seaborne iron ore market. Brazil currently has massive problems in their industry (which they will eventually sort out). There is a proposal to build the Simandou mine in West Africa but that's 10 year and at least USD16 billion away. Given the corruption and total lack of infrastructure in West Africa, it is doubtful that this mine will get built anytime soon.

        • +10

          Because you don't tariff your own exports

          Actually…

          The Australian Government should respond in kind with the threat of a 10% China-only export tariff on iron ore, coking coal and natural gas.

          Australia is the dominant global supplier of these commodities, which are essential to China’s economic development. Moreover, China’s stimulus almost always manifests in empty apartment and infrastructure building, which are dependent on Australian commodity inputs.

          • @wisdomtooth: I think they meant 170%
            10% must be a typo.

          • +1

            @wisdomtooth: They'll just get coal from Africa and Russia.

            • +3

              @DisabledUser370657:

              They'll just get coal from Africa and Russia.

              Russia sure, but Africa? Unlikely. Coal exports from Africa are 1/10 of Australia's. Indonesia, is a more likely substitute. Yet, not all coal is good for forging steel, which is what China mostly uses it for.

              • +2

                @wisdomtooth: Indonesia is in chronic energy shortage and they won't be able to sustain exporting their coal for too long.

            • @DisabledUser370657: Looks like it's Canada right now. Fortunately, China is not Australia's biggest customer for coal.

          • +4

            @wisdomtooth: We may be the dominant supplier but we are by no means irreplaceable.

            • +1

              @gromit: Not necessarily arguing for it; just pointing a country can—and in some circumstances should!—apply discretionary tariffs as part of its geoeconomic strategy.

              • @wisdomtooth: Sure as long as we understand most of the pain of that would be felt by us not them and it may have long term consequences in trade that see us reduced for decades.

                • @gromit: So it’s okay for us to sell them what they need at reasonable prices while they hit our exports with huge tariffs after they reach China.

                  Out of curiosity, who can they go to for their huge demands of iron ore while having the flexibility of being geographically close to make it economically viable??

                  • @jdf:

                    Out of curiosity, who can they go to for their huge demands of iron ore while having the flexibility of being geographically close to make it economically viable??

                    Africa and Brazil, both have large amounts of Iron Ore supply coming online soon (on top of existing supplies) and many of the large mines have been running not at full capacity as worldwide supply has been outstripping demand for a long time now. (though that recently has changed so many are ramping up). China also has a large domestic Iron Ore supply (though not enough to meet needs).

                    and no it isn't ok for them to tariff us, but the reality is a trade war is NOT something we can win here, every way you look at we lose as the balance of power is with them, every action cuts us 10 times to the bone to give them a razor burn. diversification away from china (which will take many years) and diplomacy are the only viable ways forward that don't see us in economic ruin.

                    Back in November it was reported that China is already favoring coking coal from other regions putting downward pressure on Australian prices even though it meant they had to pay a premium price from places like North America. This is how we will be displaced. Not in a big bang but gradually over time, China pay higher prices initially to do it but that is a minor cost to them that leaves their supplies uninterrrupted.

                  • @jdf: They can't.

        • Would love to see more people questioning how the average Aussie on the street benefits from our mineral wealth.

          Overseas companies get these insanely huge $$$ benefits and pay us next to nothing.

          • @MementoMori: State Government Royalties and Company Tax. was something around 40 billion in 2019 plus jobs, service industries etc etc. I agree it should be more, but the average Aussie benefits hugely from it already.

    • +62

      Any company that hitches their entire wagon to China deserves what they get. Selling to China is dumber than buying from them.

      • +9

        We should be hedging our bets with everyone, if trade is so important then we should have trade delegates working every other country on the planet even if we are pretty sure we aren't going to do any meaningful trade anytime soon there. Why not cast a wide net and try to drum up demand in all countries. Or is Australia already doing that?

        • +3

          The problem is China is aware and taking over parts of other countries with belt and road initiatives. See Darwin port, Victoria as local examples.

          Should we boycott countries that have belt and road initiative?

          • +2

            @orangetrain: No. But we should try to compete with the belt and road initiative. Make a better offer, so that china isn't the only country calling shots in developing countries. Make it so that said developing countries have multiple partners, and that one partner cannot threaten them using debt diplomacy.

            • +1

              @sangohan: China belt and road initiative is similar to World Bank. Already exists but there's a reason why politicians prefer China over World Bank. See criticism online.

            • +3

              @sangohan: I think we'd better focus on our own issues. We are a small country any way. Don't put us in the middle of US and China.

      • +3

        Australia Wine system has always been broken, as a South Aussie, 80s, 90s, 00s = endless stories of 100s of tons of grapes being dumped into landfill as was no demand.
        Ironically most likely is truth over dumping, as grapes hold no value.

      • But we haven't hitched our entire wagon. But there's enough hitching that it really hurts.

    • -21

      We have relied on Chinese money to fund our extensive welfare system for far too long already. Best to start by cutting our enormous welfare budgets to save costs. Also reduce our personal income taxes to incentivise working and not have the free loaders leaching off hardworking Australians by relying on Jobseeker.

      Too many citizens on the dole despite fruits going to waste for want of fruitpickers (because they are too lazy to pick fruits despite being unemployed and need fruitpickers from third world countries to do the job for us, really??) are the reason why China has a financial leverage over us.

      • +13

        The bulk of welfare money goes to older people, disabled stuff and families and THEN the unemployed. In that order.
        If you don't believe me, a quick google can show you that even by cutting people off job seeker you can't take on China.

        • +1

          dont forget the almost free healthcare. i work at an eye hospital and everyday i see many people coming in for emergency reasons and with a single swipe of medicare it's all paid in full. Would have cost an average of $5,500 or more. Our tax barely covers the cost of road maintenance, defence and public transport cost.

      • +2

        We have relied on Chinese money to fund our —extensive welfare— extravagant lifestyle and overinflated wage system for far too long already

        Money spending on welfare is miniscule compared to our overpaid tradies, councillor or FIFO worker.

        • -4

          I upvoted this because I agree with the additional point you made. The elegant solution to this would be to cut minimum wages and the costs of doing business so that manufacturing can be brought back into Australia and we can be more self-reliant. Wages and welfare in Australia are way too high and have been previously subsidised by the huge Chinese trade surplus, driving up the costs of business and disincentivising Australians to do any real work.

        • Not sure what tradies you know.

          Work in the industry for 5min, and you'll see through that mirage.

          • -2

            @Ulysses31: Excessively paid tradies and high penalty rates are the main reason why Australia is relatively under-developed and can only support less than a tenth of the USA population as compared to the continental USA which has the same land mass as us.

            Given our massive natural resources and land mass, we could have been a much more powerful country to stand up to China if not for piss poor government policies and all too powerful (and often corrupted) unions.

            • +1

              @dofdaus: rainfall might have something to say about supporting a population.

        • 'extravagant lifestyle and overinflated wage'

          Economics 101 - the cost of labour is based on the availability of labour. That's it.

          When labour is in short supply, its cost goes up.
          When labour is abundant, its cost goes down.

          Therefore the market decides what people should be paid - so if wages are 'overinflated' it's because the market has to pay those wages.

      • +1

        Been watching channel 9 have we?

    • +16

      The ironic thing is, the media uproar and outrage only started when they started taxing our wine. The coverage on the south china sea and the human rights issues with the uyghers paled in comparison.

      Guess when our wallets start feeling the pinch is when we start yelling.

      • +12

        Agreed, human rights take a small stand as it doesn't affect many of us, however when our wallets are affected suddenly people want to start hating the Chinese. GROW UP PEOPLE! Many of us depend on the Chinese for our livelihood, they fund our economy in a massive way. Let's not make enemies and do our best to end a trade war before it gets out of hand. Hating on them won't fix the problem, resolving our differences will. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, we have a mutually beneficial relationship.

        • +5

          In the meantime, enjoy half priced lobsters!

    • +3

      I'm confused, isn't this what people want? People don't agree with the way they run things but still want their money? Or are people just mad it's on their terms and not on ours. If people want to boycott products, surely it should go the other way around as well.

      • +5

        Nooo, we have double standards.

  • +64

    Dick tried a long time ago, and failed. Consumers are mostly driven by price. China wins.

    • +10

      Even Dick told yesterday its a bad idea, if we banned Chinese products, Chinese will ban ours, and it will go in circles.

      • +5

        It would go in a horseshoe. They can live without our trade. We are up shit creek, though I'm happy to take a hit to GDP if the alternative is to give China the greenlight on Hong Kong, Xinjiang, etc.

        • +4

          its actually not that difficult
          Try to check the made in China label.
          if YES
          see if alternatives are available
          if YES - Buy
          if No- Buy only if its essential and if its Non Chinese owned brand, though made in China.
          IF NO
          BUY IT
          The supply chain are too integrated now, but we can make smart choice.

          • +3

            @vivekannd: Try to check the made in China label.
            if YES
            see if alternatives are available
            if YES - Check if it is made of parts or ingredients from China
            if NO
            if NO
            if NO
            if NO
            if NO
            if NO
            if NO
            if NO
            if NO
            if NO
            if NO

        • +1

          HK, Xinjiang, etc are all of CCP's internal problems which they see as their "core interests".
          I'm afraid no amount of "GDP sacrificing" would make any difference.

          But if Australia really wants, we do have the capacity to send a force of about 6 F-35s to attack China to show solidarity to our freedom loving HK friends.

          • @berry580: Please do. I'll be watching

        • +6

          I'm happy to take a hit to GDP

          let's see if you change your tune when your job is gone, and you cannot make debt payments for the house/car etc. Food/daily necessities are 10x more expensive, and your quality of life is drastically reduced.

          • +1

            @sangohan: This… Mate this is pure scaremongering. How would food get 10x more expensive if the GDP would take a hit? Most of the food is produced in OZ, the country could be self-sustaining. Necessities? Lot of clothing made out of China. Chemicals? Same. Sure, Eu imports might be more expensive, but 10x? C'mon man!

            • -1

              @D3HUN: Love your essay.
              Forget about even costs increasing.
              You lose your job, I trust the tone would start changing promptly.

              I know there is jobseeker, is that enough to pay rent or mortgage?
              If you're still leeching off mum and dad, then ok, I understand. You win kid. Lol

              • @berry580: Mate, is there anything else you can say other than trying to deliver a (misdirected) personal attack?

                You can't even react to the point….

                • @D3HUN: No idea why you see everything as personal.
                  Is Australia willing to trade principle for economic fortune?
                  Many in ozBargain wants to say the answer is no, they'll stand up to China on human rights, Taiwan, South China Sea. Everything that's deeply important to Australian's hearts and welfare apparently.

                  Everyone has a plan until their hip pocket gets hit.

    • +12

      It's not so much China, but whichever country has the manufacturing scale and efficiencies to manufacture the product.

      It's hard to achieve any degree of scale and efficiency in Australia due to the costs not being offset by demand from the local market.

      We are comparing ourselves to a country with a work force of a billion people, and even the united states has a workforce of close to 160 million and a factorial increase in local consumers.

      Cheap shit comes out of China because the white guy goes to china and says you're china make this shit for nothing and here is 10 cents. The product comes back to the white guy who complains that china only makes cheap low quality shit, on his made in China iPhone.

    • +2

      I feel our friends in the US and Europe are pushing us to the very frontline to confront China by saying they will buy our wine. Making it harder for us to make peace.

    • +4
      1. 'Given how ridiculous and ironic china’s position is, to have the gall to call out Australia for human rights abuses do you feel more strongly about trying to avoid products manufactured in China?'

      Is it really ridiculous?
      https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/19/austr...

      1. 'Australia relative to the rest of the world is one with more integrity than that'

      Nah, they thought Trump would win. He didnt, so Aus is left standing in the cold alone.

      1. 'I don’t see how China could ever lecture a country like Australia when it comes to war crimes/human rights abuse given their long track record'

      Apartheid, Stolen Generation, Warcrimes.

      Who is the pot and who is the Kettle?

      1. 'Hopefully western businesses are more incentivised now to move their supply chains away from China but that will a long and slow process over many years possibly decades'

      Theres only 1 incentive for businesses. Money. They will blow up the moon if they got a tax break from that.

      eerga uoy fi etovnwoD

      • 'I don’t see how China could ever lecture a country like Australia when it comes to war crimes/human rights abuse given their long track record'
        Apartheid, Stolen Generation, Warcrimes

        What about now in modern times? Every country was a POS back then.

  • +133

    Even before this I have refrained whenever possible from buying anything made in China. I mean who in their right mind would buy any Chinese foodstuffs when they use human waste as a fertiliser.

    • +5

      Why is this being downvoted?

      • +84

        I believe you will find a lot of downvotes for anything critical of the Chinese communist party.

        • +33

          50 cent army.

        • +12

          Because the nearly 1 million Chinese born "Australians" are loyal to the CCP, and not to Australia. Let the downvoting begin!

          • +12

            @dcash: Says who? Your overlord in D.C? There are Chinese who actually suffered from CCP or not happy with CCP then came here or went to other countries. Don't make baseless accusation.

          • +1

            @dcash: I agree but there's about 1m ethnic Chinese people - from all countries and many born here - living in Australia, not 1m people from Chinese born people.

            • -2

              @R4: The Home Affairs website states that "At the end of June 2018, 650,700 Chinese-born people were living in Australia". So two years later, it's quite likely that number is pushing much closer to the 1 million mark. The PRC also represents about 10% of Australia's overseas born population. Absolutely staggering numbers, I'm sure you will agree!

              • @dcash: So two years later, it's quite likely that number is pushing much closer to the 1 million mark.

                Given our migration numbers are around 200k/year, it would be a pretty big stretch that 87% of them were Chinese.

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