Which COVID Vaccine Should I Get?

I'm 32, I work in private practise health care (part of 1b) and I'm not sure whether to get the AZ vaccine, as I'm planning to have my second child later this year. i'm in regional NSW and we haven't had any COVID cases here for the last 9 months

Should I play russian roulette with the AZ and try to dodge a blood clot (higher risk as I'm female)

or

Wait for more Pfizer imports

or

Wait for either Novovax or Johnson & Johnson to be approved and available.

Poll Options

  • 179
    Roll the blood clot dice with AZ
  • 531
    Wait for Pfizer import for 1b
  • 10
    Wait for Novovax imports
  • 13
    Wait for Johnson and Johnson
  • 235
    Stay unvaccinated and wait for herd immunity

Comments

        • +1 vote

          All public hospital staff in Queensland are getting Pfizer - most frontline have had it already I believe.

          •  

            @morse: A fair few have already had a shot of AZ and will have the second.

            •  

              @Hardly Normal: Which hospitals? Where I’m at we’ve all had the Pfizer one. I thought that was the same across QLD public hospitals.

              I know a lot of the general public, GPs and aged care sector have had AZ.

              • +1 vote

                @morse: Anywhere regional. The old plan was to only have Pfizer in a few hubs due to the storage and transport requirements. Unsure if it was national or just a state approach.

                •  

                  @Hardly Normal: That makes sense. I’m guessing the strategy will change now and there will have to be more hubs.

                  • +1 vote

                    @morse: Yeah the logistic considerations are going to be immense. It will be a busy few weeks for those in charge.

                    • +1 vote

                      @Hardly Normal: It has been a busy year for all those in charge. When things go FUBAR it is very often because decisions have been made by desperately tired people.

                      I used to work in Canberra, and I've always said the worst planning and policy decisions are always made after midnight.

        • +1 vote

          Not sure how accurate that is….I got my Pfizer jab alongside health professionals at the hospital.

        • +1 vote

          As of today, nsw health not giving AZ to hospital staff under 50

        • +2 votes

          This is incorrect. I know for a fact that all hospital staff in NSW I personally know have received pfizer.

          •  

            @JungliChilli: I can tell you as a fact that medical professionals have been getting AZ within Australia as a whole. Even if your friends within Allied Health have received Pfizer.

            • +2 votes

              @Hardly Normal: I never said that wasn't happening. I was responding to blank-404s comment claiming that all hospital staff are getting AZ(in Nsw atleast) which is incorrect.

  •  

    Pfizer. Had a few friends who got the Pfizer vaccine and they've not had any issues or major complications.

    • +1 vote
      • +5 votes

        Sore arm then? No surprise, they already tell you about it.

        • +2 votes

          A sore arm is a likely side effect of any injection.

      • +1 vote

        Fake.

        •  

          Excellent thank you very much for sharing

          Led by the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance (NCIRS) and funded by the Australian Government Department of Health, AusVaxSafety is a world-leading national vaccine safety system.

          AusVaxSafety was established in 2014 to monitor adverse events following immunisation with influenza vaccines in children. AusVaxSafety has now grown into a multi-component system, including:

          Active surveillance
          Clinical assessment network
          Hospital surveillance
          Safety investigation using linked data
          AusVaxSafety is a collaboration between immunisation providers, private enterprise, research institutions, state and territory governments and the Australian Government Department of Health, which has significantly improved Australia’s ability to monitor, detect and respond to vaccine safety events.

    • +17 votes

      I know of about a dozen people personally who've had either the Pfizer or AZ vaccine and not a single one of them had a pleasant experience.

      Two required hospitalization within 48 hours (one of whom was a mid-20s volunteer firefighter in perfect health and never had any kind of medical emergency in his life) and took weeks to recover and the rest of whom took considerable time off work just to feel somewhat normal again (all of them experienced extremely severe, flu-like symptoms along with bizarre ailments like a complete loss of appetite for days, inability or severe difficulty to swallow liquids or foods and a strong metallic taste in their mouth). I might also add that some of them still complain of lingering health issues even months after having the vaccines and the volunteer firefighter spoke to hospital staff about it and they remarked they've seen hundreds of cases of severe vaccine side-effects from both Pfizer and AC vaccine since the roll-out began.

      I also know a nurse at a smaller hospital whose entire staff was vaccinated and not a single person out of several dozen, overall young nurses/orderlies, didn't have severe side-effects for weeks.

      • +1 vote

        Friends in Europe who has the Pfizer shot went through similar unpleasant experience. Although apparently its the 2nd shot that did it. First shot they didn’t have any problems with..

        • +4 votes

          Although apparently its the 2nd shot that did it. First shot they didn’t have any problems with..

          Yep, that seems to be the common thread from the stories I've heard as well. Most (not all) felt fine after the first dose but the second was hellish.

          • +1 vote

            @Gnostikos: Not really hellish, just feels like you've got the flu for a day and someone punched you in the arm (for me at least).

      • +2 votes

        “”months after”? What country?

        •  

          I know of a few who are front-line healthcare workers in the UK and Germany who got the Pfizer vaccine early (around January) and still don't feel like they're back to their pre-vaccine state of health.

          • +1 vote

            @Gnostikos: What lingering health issues are they experiencing? I want to google it to see what comes up.

            •  

              @baskinghobo: This is a very late reply due to my account being in the penalty box for 2 weeks, but if you're still interested, check out r/CovidVaccinated for the kinds of reports I'm referring to. Yes, there's some confirmation bias at play there and people are only inclined to post there after suffering intense side effects and health complications post-vaccination, but the sheer number of horror stories on there is eye-opening and very much contrary to the spin given by media coverage on the vaccine roll-outs thus far.

              I've noticed that many of the lingering post-vaccination side effects that drag out for months seem to be identical to the "long COVID" symptoms that have been extensively reported in the past year.

              This thread here is a pretty lengthy and interesting one, given how many people also share the OP's predicament and echo their concerns about when these side-effects and symptoms will clear up.

              The other under-reported and highly unusual phenomena in vaccine side-effects is bizarre changes to female menstrual cycles, sometimes lasting more than a month, which you can see plenty of reports about on r/CovidVaccinated and in mainstream articles as well. There are even anecdotal reports of women experiencing menstrual cycle disruptions and even miscarriages after merely being in the presence of vaccinated individuals for a period of time, who had severe reactions to the vaccines.

              The other curious oddity that people have noticed, is that many of these intense and prolonged side effects reported after COVID vaccinations are extremely similar to the intense side-effects that were reported in the past after swine flu vaccinations.

      • -2 votes

        A friend's dad in Israel got bell's palsy after pfizer jab. They don't know if it is permanent. I don't know anyone who has had serious complications from covid.

        • -2 votes

          evidence?

  • +24 votes

    That dice you're talking about rolling would have 800,000 sides for death, and about 200,000 sides for getting clots at all.
    You're significantly more likely to get them from pregnancy than the vaccine.

    As a side note, your chance of being struck by lightning is about 1 in 500,000.
    So you've got better chances of being struck by lightning than dying due to clots from AZ vaccine.

      • +25 votes

        Actually, chances of getting COVID in Australia based on the past year is 29,385 out of 2,536,0000.
        The chances of death (overall) based on the past year is 909/25,360,000.
        (Acceptably lower due to no active community transmissions right now, but still not zero.)

        Even if we vaccinated everyone over 18 with AZ vaccine, there would be a total of approximately 20,000,000 people vaccinated and at a rate of 1 in 800,000 would result in 25 deaths.

        So while there is no COVID spreading in Australia, it is 25 unneeded deaths, but so are the people that die from other common things every day that we don't protect.
        People are too coddled these days and are risk adverse.
        If you're that worried about dying, you should be more concerned with the fact that 5.4 people die due to car accidents per 100,000 (54 per million). Since that means your chance of dying in a car accident is also 50 times higher than from AZ vaccine, and that's just 1 out of thousands of ways you could die which are significantly higher than 1 in 800,000.

        • +19 votes

          so we gotta sacrifice 25 healthy young ppl when we could have just bought a better vaccine? tell that to the poor Melbourne guy in intensive care after takin it.

          • +10 votes

            @silenthillrocks: I understand this sentiment, and I don't believe we should sacrifice anyone.
            The vaccine has always been a choice, no one was made to take it except frontline workers.

            It's better to advertise the statistics and chances and make it very clear to the public how unlikely it is with real life scenarios people can understand.

            If you can understand that the chances of dying to everything else is much higher, people can make informed decisions.

        • +16 votes

          The chances of death (overall) based on the past year is 909/25,360,000.

          Much much lower if you're under 70 years old.

          People are too coddled these days and are risk adverse.

          That's why I won't get the vaccine straight away, if at all 😂

          •  

            @ozhunter:

            Much much lower if you're under 70 years old.

            That's true for all medical fatality statistics…. actually, you can just say;

            The chance of dying is significantly reduced by being under the age of 70.

        •  

          People are too coddled these days and are risk adverse.

          This is how you sell vitamins to people who don't need it. 2/3 of people are classified as obese, I would expect to extract vitamins out of them rather than putting more in.

          •  

            @netjock: Except for vitamin d, the one we actually needed to avoid this entire pandemic.

      • +10 votes

        You have a higher risk of clotting from paracetamol or the birth control pill.

        People just don't follow or scrutinise normal drug testing in the way they (and the media) have followed this product.

        • +5 votes

          its not so clear cut, they are calling this blood clot a completely new disease, uncomparable to other clotting

            • +1 vote

              @lunchbox99: PM me new convos are blocked and you have peaked my interest.

              • +1 vote

                @Bjingo: piqued*

                •  

                  @TEER3X: Thank you, its too late to correct but good to know.

                  Edit: Though peaked is not necessarily wrong as my interest on the topic was in fact at it's peak

          • +1 vote

            @silenthillrocks: I haven’t seen a scientific resource that says this, can you justify your claims with a quality source rather than fear monger?

            • +2 votes

              @Milkywayss: it was said by the chief medical officer of Australia during last night's press conference, is that not reliable enough

    • +1 vote

      I agree that DVT/CVST is far more likely in pregnancy, but I'm not quite sure I agree with your initial statement.

      If a dice has 1,000,000 (800,000+200,000) sides, you're implying a 20% chance of blood clot from the vaccine (200,000/1,000,000).

      In fact, if you were to roll the dice, the risk appears to be 999,996 sides of 'no clot', and only 4 sides of 'clot' i.e. the risk of a clot is 1 in 250,000, or 0.0004%.

      • +1 vote

        Sorry, I think you misunderstood. It was 2 separate dice…
        The first is 1 in 200,000 of getting clots at all.
        The second is 1 in 800,000 of dying due to clots.

        If you were using 1 die, it would be 1 800,000 die with 4 sides showing "Clot"

        • +3 votes

          While I agree with the way you have worded the risks in line 2 and 3 [1/200,000 risk of clots, and death rate of those is 25% so 0.25*(1/200,000)=1/800,000)], we both have the same understanding of the risk, for anyone following I'd like to clarify your last statement (mainly because it's a little confusing without symbols and using the plural of dice haha).
          If you rolled a single dice, it would be an 800,000 sided dice, with 4 sides showing 'clot'. So, all in all, an extremely low risk of clot :)

    • +18 votes

      So… If Australia has a population of 25M, can we assume that 50 Australians are struck by lightning every year?

      Data shows "There are between five and ten deaths from lightning strikes in Australia each year, and over 100 injuries" (University of Western Australia fact sheet, not sure how reliable it is).

      Are other factors that contribute to people being hit by lightning. I don't have the data, but I suppose that someone who lives in the city between high buildings is very unlikely one of the 50 dying every year.

      According to this ( https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00690909 Full article here ):
      -The group that has been most at risk in Australia is that of males aged 15–19, followed by males aged 20–34.
      -About 86% of fatalities have occurred outdoors and 14% have occurred indoors.
      -Approximately three-fifths of fatalities have been work-related, and the group of workers that has traditionally been most at risk is that of land-workers.
      -The recreational activities of water sports, golf, and cricket have had the greatest number of lightning fatalities.

      Therefore, there are many known and unknown variables there. If OP is not exposed to those situations, it is very unlikely that he will be hit by lightning, and the probability is far less than 1 in 500000 for him/her.

      The article has the number for different States and territories, and age groups.

      Now, let's assume the initial risk of clot with AZ is 1:800000 for all age groups.

      "The European Medicines Agency, which has assessed data from around the world, estimates there is around a one in 100,000 risk of a CVST in people under the age of 60 who have been given the AstraZeneca vaccine."

      If OP is younger than 50, that's probably more than 1:800000. If OP is younger than 40, the risks are even higher. Everything is new and we don't have the data yet, but I would (and will) postpone my vaccine until the Pfizer (or other safer alternative) is offered, particularly while the risks of getting COVID in Australia are minimal.

      Again, not enough data, but if I can choose not to be exposed to the risk (AZ vaccine) when the risk of getting COVID in Australia is minimal, and when other option might/should be available soon, why would OP or I get AZ? No, thanks… I prefer keeping the minimal risk of being hit by lightning, and minimal risk of developing clot.

      *Disclosure: my partner got the AZ vaccine last week and developed flu-like symptoms that lasted for about 30 hours, which is fine/acceptable/not life-threatening. Friends who got the Pfizer had no symptoms at all. I'm extremely pro-vaccines, but I don't wanna be one of the 100-200 (ish) people who will develop clot or one of the 30 (ish) who will die after having the AZ vaccine in Australia (supposing the majority of the 25M receive the AZ).

      • +3 votes

        I appreciate your research, and shows a real effort to understand.

        I was only using being struck by lightning as a quick example to show that there are other significant dangers in the world than a 1 in 800,000 chance of dying due to the AZ vaccine.
        Pregnancy alone is much more dangerous than the vaccine is (6.7 in 100,000 in 2018; https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/mothers-babies/maternal-deat...).

        As I, and others, have pointed out, driving your car has 50x more chances of dying in 1 year.

        I could list hundreds of more likely ways you could die than 1 in 800,000.
        Ultimately the point is that a lot of people have difficulty grasping straight numbers, I can say it's 1 in 800,000 but most people won't understand how little that really is until you put it into perspective.

        •  

          Actually pregnancy for non indigenous is about 5x safer, and the date is dropping for non indigenous.

          But with awareness of the unusual clotting issue that may be genetically linked (which means if one Tasmanian is effected…) the caution and prompt treatment should lower the death and 'impacted' rate. There are a lot of states between living and dead, as the OP would be aware.

          Working in a HealthCare setting, the OP may assume that they would notice. This is not always the case, but with the sensitivity of this issue should be high in people's mind.

          Over 50 and jabbed with AZ I live and work with immuno-compromised people. And I do have a clotting disorder.

        •  

          As I, and others, have pointed out, driving your car has 50x more chances of dying in 1 year.

          I could list hundreds of more likely ways you could die than 1 in 800,000.

          Yeah bit of an odd line of thought. Concerned about the vaccine but go get pregnant, hop in a car daily, maybe some heavy doses of alcohol, red meat, maybe some nice sun exposure and countless other "known carcinogens".

          Disclosure: I would wait for Pfizer too, unless they can narrow down the risk factors in getting the clotting issue.

        •  

          I understand your point, but even if I choose to drive a car, or drink alcohol, or walk on the beach when it's raining, still don't have the risk to develop clot because of the AZ vaccine. I choose not to increase my chances of having a clot, because there are other options that should be available in Australia if the government had not put almost all its coins in the AZ vaccine. As I can't travel anyway, I will wait for the Pfizer.

      •  

        I would like to see the stats about reactions based on age groups. My wife’s good friend is 80 odd and full time carer for disabled daughter who is about 60. Schedule for jab today, who knows which one, but can’t afford to be laid up in bed with flu like symptoms. She will rely on her GP today, who probably doesn’t have the information either.

      •  

        I am suspicious of vax agenda (i guess you could call me anti-vaxxer if pointless labels are that important).

        But I do like your post and the balanced analysis which was done.

        One glaring omission however. You are taking the blood clot issue (which appears to be the most dangerous NEAR TERM complication) as as the only potential medical complication.

        And maybe it is. But without some proper longitudinal long term effect studies of these medical experiments, I for sure wouldn't be counting blood clotting as the only potential medical complication.

    •  

      Yes chances of being hospitalized with AZ are incredibly small but based on the current situation in Australia the 1 in 100000 chance of an adverse reaction to AZ is worse than the risk of an under 50 being hospitalized due to Covid.

      The reason Australia is saying 50 and the UK is saying 30 is that you are more likely to be hospitalized from Covid in the UK due to the levels of community transmission.

      So current expert advice would be wait for a non-AZ vaccine and evaluate this if their is a significant change in the situation.

    • +1 vote

      Hold on, clots and prothombotic thrombocytopaenia are NOT the same thing. Risk of DVT from pregnancy or the pill, both of which happen over time. VCST or splanchnic vein thrombosis with thrombocytopaenia that can't be treated with heparin, from a single dose, without knowing any risk factors? No.

      I'm a HCW. I'm going for Pfizer. I feel very cynical about the attempts to conflate this adverse event with pregnancy and the pill, very cynical. We have pulled vaccines from the market for less adverse events than this, we have no community transmission right now and we have the luxury of choice. It should be up to the individual.

    •  

      Now factor in:

      • the number of people in the world
      • the survival rate of Covid infection (99.8%+)
      • the average age of 'Covid death' (85)
      • the number of people who have received the AZ vaccine
      • other potential side effects (short and unknown long term)

      and what do you get?

  • +26 votes

    I had the AZ vaccine and I died.

    • +4 votes

      holy jebus

      • +6 votes

        Holy Lazarus

    • +1 vote

      @arkieoldcrow ……….Which started the whole world living

    • +4 votes

      Press f to pay respects.

      f

    • +2 votes

      What’s it like on the other side? Grass greener?

    •  

      thanks for sharing your experience Jesus.

    •  

      are you better now?

  • +5 votes

    I had the AZ vaccine. No drama. No fever, no rash, no headache. Nothing except a little arm ache at the injection site.

  • +9 votes

    so u work in a private practise health care, i'm guess u had some medical training?
    yet you want to get advice from randoms in ozbargain……

    i vote bikies

    • +5 votes

      It is kinda like on Millionaire where they choose the option to Ask the Audience.

      • +1 vote

        That analogy goes bad though, when you think the question is about healthcare, and their phone-a-friend is a doctor (as they work in healthcare, surely they have some doctors they can ask). There are situations when ask the audience is the wrong option.

    • +1 vote

      They might work in admin, in a semi skilled role like phlebotomy or they could be something like a chiropractor with that sort of scope of knowledge.

      They didn't actually say they were a clinician.

    • -1 vote

      I was taught at school democracy works though…