Product Recall, My Rights for a Refund? (Philips CPAP)

Hi everyone,

So apparently anybody with a sleep apneoa machine made from Philips is being recalled due to some potentially nasty stuff in the airways when you are using it (not great for a health device right). You can find more information here and here.

With the recall, of course I went out and purchased a new one (Resmed) due to the advice to NOT use it anymore. I was also told that there are 4 million of these devices sold in AU, which would take a VERY long time to replace/repair.

When I called them and told them about buying a new machine, they said my device has been 'flagged' to talk to management about a refund.

Now, I'm just wondering if anybody could give me some advice/strategies on how to talk my way better into getting this refund?

Thanks fellow OzBargainers!

Comments

  • +3 votes

    I think this would be a case of be patient grasshopper. Philips are yet to officially recall in Australia from what I can gather.

    Philips may insert an official refund procedure on their website if it is an option to do so in the future.

    talk to management about a refund

    This just sounds like a handball to me. The operator had no idea and just wanted to fob you off in a positive way. I highly doubt an email to some random middle manager in Philips will result in a refund.

    I was also told that there are 4 million of these devices sold in AU

    Simple maths tells me this is BS.

  • +1 vote

    There isn't any mention of this at:
    https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recalls

  • +2 votes

    I'd say you're entitled to a refund as it would count as a major defect, ie you wouldn't have purchased it if you'd known about the flaw. If they don't want to refund then I wouldn't hesitate to do a chargeback on it. Document all the times you contact them and ask for a commitment as to when you'll have a decision.

  •  

    With the recall, of course I went out and purchased a new one due to the advice to NOT use it anymore

    Reading the recall links, it appears the foam can degrade and break away if you are using non approved cleaning methods.

    Has this been the case? If not, then not too much to worry about. Plus sounds like a easy fix, aka replace the foam with something else.

    into getting this refund?

    How much was this machine? Do you want a spare machine for when your current one fails?

    It might be a wait and see what the recall notice says. Normally these are return for repair or refund.

  •  

    anybody with a sleep apnea machine made from Philips is being recalled

    Thank god I don't have one of those machines… I hate it when I am recalled!

    With the recall, of course I went out and purchased a new one due to the advice to NOT use it anymore

    So you saw the recall and went a bought one?

  •  

    With the recall, of course I went out and purchased a new one due to the advice to NOT use it anymore.

    I read this several times over thinking you just purchased the same model after seeing it was under recall and now want it refunded.

    I believe you mean that you went and purchased an alternative model under the advice that your current one should not be used, and the assumption it may not be remedied for a long time, as you have an immediate need for it or an alternative product. Now you want to ensure you get a refund for the current one rather than a repair/replacement and ending up with two expensive items.

    I personally believe you should have the right to a refund. You might have to argue your point and provide some consumer law references. But I would imagine that they would give in for such a major issue. As per the ACCC link provided above.

    When you have a major problem with a product, you have the right to ask for your choice of a replacement or refund.

    A product or good has a major problem when:

    it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
    it has multiple minor problems that, when taken as a whole, would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about them
    it is significantly different from the sample or description
    it is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time
    it doesn’t do what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time; or
    it is unsafe.

    •  

      Sorry, I probably should have been clearer. You're right, I went and bought a competitor product (Resmed).

      Thank you for the link! I think this will be helpful.

  • +2 votes

    Thanks to the Op for letting me know about this recall.
    I am surprised the merchant did not contact me about this matter considering they have my email address.

    •  

      Possibly because it isn't officially recalled just yet in Australia, but the US is now doing it. My merchant sent an email about it and gave a pretty good discount on a Resmed device.

      To be honest, I'm enjoying the resmed much more than the philips, so I'm happy either way. Now it is just about trying to get some money back on a refund.

      •  

        I have double check the specific recall. As of 1st of July 2021 the TGA has classified this as a "Product Defect Correction Notice".

        Product defect correction - Repair, modification, adjustment or re-labelling of a therapeutic good. The corrective action may take place at the user's premises or any other agreed location.

        https://apps.tga.gov.au/PROD/SARA/arn-detail.aspx?k=RC-2021-...

      • +1 vote

        A reminder that the ACCC does not deal with individual ACL complaints. You need to lodge the complaint with your relevant consumer protection in your state.

        I spoke to Commerce WA (Consumer Protection WA).

        The Consumer Protection WA have actually received information about this and however they told me to give the TGA a call for further information. I also asked them my rights under the Australian Consumer Law (ACL) against the retailer and the manufacturer. They couldn't actually give me an answer. It was as if I was speaking alien to them.

        Either way I have written an email to the retailer who sold me the goods. I have requested a refund remedy under ACL (I don't believe a repair would be achieved in a timely manner). I know for a fact there going to tell me to speak to the manufacturer however under the ACL they are required to provide me the remedy and can not tell me to go to the manufacturer even if it is a manufacturer defect. I think they will find it hard to argue the goods are merchantable quality, last reasonable period or fit for purpose when I have attached a pdf of the manufacturer recommend customers discontinue use of the product. I have included the link were Phillips recommends customers discontinue use of the product.

        It should be noted in the manual the product only has a useful life of 5 years. My product is less than 2 years old.

        https://www.philips.com.au/healthcare/e/sleep/communications...

  •  

    I read about this via someone who had a 12 yr old machine and was wondering why it was leaking black bits into the humidifier, I'm thinking what the f** do they think the unit is to be used for 50 years without some servicing or replacement?

    (I use a resmed system, but I cannot find info from resmed if they use the same foam, it would seem likely they all use the same sound deadening. fortunately mine is under 12 month old so I'm feeling a bit better.

  •  

    I have received a couple email about this.

    For anyone who has received the standard response about the TGA Recall.

    Please print and email your relevant supplier the information in the link.

    https://www.tga.gov.au/book-page/accc-and-recalling-goods

    The TGA role in the recalling of therapeutic goods is clarified under the uniform recall procedures for therapeutic goods, V2.2. This recall does not prevent us from claiming our rights under consumer guarantees specified by the ACL.

    It would also be best to remind them this is a consumer goods and it falls under the consumer guarantees. Also it would be worth reminding them it is their responsibility to provide a remedy under ACL and they can not tell us to go speak to Phillips.

    If your at the same stage as me I suggest you also raise a complaint with the relevant consumer protection agency in your state and be prepared for a long grind.

    •  

      Hey, I just found out about this recall. Did you get anywhere trying to get a refund from the retailer/supplier? I would like a refund since I only purchased it only months ago, but not sure. I will raise a complaint as you suggested.

      •  

        Apply through the retailer - even though its a hassle for the retailer.

        The ACL specifies resolution through the retailer unless the manufacturer opts to directly provide a resolution. Behind the scenes, the retailer then seeks remedy from the manufacturer.

        This is statutory federal law.

  •  

    Anyone had success getting a refund yet? Mine come with a 5 year warranty (only 3 years old) - (yes I still have the warranty card and original receipt) and it says to make a claim through the "homecare provider". I'm seeing my provider tomorrow…so far the repsonse has been too bad go talk to phillips. wondering if I should get my health insurer onto them as they funded $500 of the orignal purchase price.

    • +1 vote

      I got a replacement. The business swapped the Phillips for a Resmed.

      It should be noted even under a home care package you are still entitled to ACL. The only problem would be the invoice was billed to the home care provider. It's really the home care provider responsibility to follow up with the retailer for a remedy.

      If your home care provider is similar to my mom all you receive is a statement. You won't know the company they have purchased this from.

      In practice the homecare providers wiped their hand clean of this matter once they purchased you the goods. The provider also makes a mark up % on top of the product you have purchased.

      Look have this in writing request and explaining the problem with the product. Reminder them consumer law is not optional and this is your right. Request the home care provider chase the approved vendor for a remedy. I recommend replacement with another brand.
      If they refuse get Older Persons Advocacy Network (OPAN) involved https://opan.org.au/ 1800 700 600.

      •  

        thanks pandadude they didn't even pick up the phone to tell us there was an issue. I had to call them. And they are a pharamcy so I'm pretty annoyed. appointment today was cancelled and rescheduled to tomorrow so will wait and see what can be done. as you would imagine, resmed is mostly sold out australia wide. They are trying to get me to buy a new BMC machine, not even contemplating offering a replacement. so cranky… my wife says just get a new one and move on…..maybe that's sage advice.

        • +1 vote

          Hi Mate.

          I just spoke to Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission about another item we purchased via a home care package. Based on what the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission has told me our complaint should be with the provider if you purchased the equipment via HCP. We engage the provider. The provider engages another provider. It's their responsibility to deal on your behalf.

          You can raise a complaint with the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission about this matter, but they do not get involved in negotiation but are able to enforce matters. Literally I got told speak to your provider. If that fails speak to OPAN to speak to your provider. If that fails then lodge a complaint with them.

          Be clear on what resolution you would like.

          I have yet to get a response from consumer protection about item purchased via home care package. I wouldn't be suprised if they give me a differnet response.

          Note our Phillips CPAP was purchased with directly from the merchant without any funding. We got consumer protection involved on this matter and it was resolved in the end.