• long running

Stake Super SMSF $990 p.a. for 1st Year (Full Establishment Setup & All Admin Costs) + Extra $200 off via Referral @ Stake

1622

Folks,

I was very surprised to find that there has never been a 'deal' lodged for this product offering, which from using & comparing to their peersI think is incredibly good value on a number of levels. So I place it up in the spirit of the 'long term' deal thats already up for Stake's brokerage service. i.e is a long term great deal - BUT there's also two other shorter term promos on which take whats already very good value and make it even more compelling - and yes in true OzB style you can combine the two offers.

OFFER 1.
Stake Super has three plans for their annual SMSF services:

  • Stake Super (ASX & US listed equities only) $990)
  • Stake Property, which ADDS ON the ability to also have property ownership within the SMSF ($1690)
  • Stake Super Plus (which can contain all ATO approved SMSF assets e.g crypto, property, precious metals, art etc) $2490
    For existing SMSF holders who transfer their SMSF to Stake Super, all of these plans are currently $990 for the 1st year. i.e saving of $1500 on Stake Super Plus.

OFFER 2.
Stake Super has just initiated a referral program which at present runs until 11NOV26 - where new members to Stake Super who sign up using an existing members referral link get a further $200 off their 1st year's fee (the referrer also receives the same deduction on their next annual fee) - T&C's i.e Stake Super plan for $790 p.a (free setup etc if no SMSF or higher plan at lower price if you have an SMSF & transfer)

In my experience with using their product I believe the main points of difference they offer over their peers are as follows:

TLDR Version: Incredibly low and transparent annual fee plans, hassle-free & intuitive SMSF setup process that assists new adopters, excellent overall product offering, true 'one stop shop' for SMSF services.

  • their setup process for new SMSFs is incredibly hassle free, simple and easy as its nearly 100% electronic (they handled everything inhouse from certifying ID documents for our incumbant Super provider to all required establishment documents etc) - they liased directly with our old Super Fund and made what seemed like an overwhelmingly complex process very straight forward, transparent and stress free.
  • ZERO setup/establishment fees for people wishing to start an SMSF - many other providers charge significant sums to do this
  • Inhouse Stake brokerage service is very highly rated (see the linked deal's ratings), its an excellent product with terrific, intuitive app and desktop access - very low brokerage fees of $AUD3 on up to $AUD30,000 trades on the ASX. Their US exchange stuff has mixed feedback mainly with FX fees but their ASX stuff is very well regarded.
  • THIS IS A BIG ONE - when they establish your SMSF they provide you with a Corporate Trustee & all it's requirements at $0 extra cost (a corporate trustee is considered a superior approach to using an Individual Trustee) - their peers often charge up to $1300+ providing this optional extra e.g Esuperfund one of the other low-cost SMSF providers charge $899 extra for just this.
  • Their security is excellent (multiple 2FA methods available), customer service is susprisingly good (calls available on appt, otherwise Aussie based team that responds within a few working days in my experience).
  • All services (except for their Auditor) are done inhouse via their own staff - brokerage, accounting, reports etc keeps all simple as a one-stop-shop only to them.
  • Stake Super/Stake are also a full CHESS Sponsoring broker - so you have the strongest possible protection for your ASX holdings (many others use the custodian model)

If it simplifies things, you can book a 'no-commitment' video/voice call to one of their SMSF experts and simply talk through - they're all Australia based and for some things an old fashioned chat is easier than reading umpteen webpages etc. We made several of these before moving ahead with anything - there was no 'sales pitch' just explaining to us how an SMSF works & if it suited our expectations & needs.

NOTE: Nothing stated here or in any of my comments is intended as 'financial advice' - as with any product or service please apply appropriate consideration to your specific personal circumstances before making any changes or decisions. Stake themselves have an excellent article on SMSF risks all considering should review.

I've been Stake Super & Stake brokerage customer for several years, however I'm receiving absolutely nothing for posting this up & have NOT done it at anyone's request or instruction.

Stake Referrals

Brokerage: random (889)

Referee: $10 bonus after funding account within 24 hours of sign-up.
Referrer: $1 off brokerage for 12 months for each referral.

Super/SMSF: random (88)

Referee & Referrer: $200 off annual fee.

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Comments

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  • And FWIW we moved as it reduced our overall costs (a benefit of a corporate trustee is that you can have up to six(6) members), provided us with vastly superior control & transparency on our investments and also through holding DIRECT assets allowed us to avoid the stripping of unrealised CGT which is done in Industry & Retail pooled Super funds - as is explained in this excellent article:
    https://passiveinvestingaustralia.com/the-problem-with-poole…

    When done correctly all unrealised CGT accumulated over the life of the SMSF will, when it's status is changed from 'Accumulation' to 'Pension' be 100% tax free. i.e your contributions over 20yrs have capital growth of $500,000. In a retail/industry fund you would have automatically had $50,000 in unrealised CGT removed - but if you hold directly this is tax free.

    Anyway happy to discuss our journey with SMSF's in general and Stake Super in the chat - but we have found them excellent in all regards and having just looked at the entire marketplace to compare pricing they're still far and away the best product offering and near the absolute cheapest too…..and thats without those two extra bonuses for new customers.

    While you should not get overly focused on fees they are regarded as one of the only variables investors can control so other than the annual Stake Super fee (which can be potentially as low as $790) we only have our brokerage costs when we purchase more units (thats a negligible cost overall) and then the investment costs/MER of any equities themselves (ETFs for example, direct shares are $0).

    Not that we do it very often but also having the ability to instantly trade assets etc and make changes compared to several working days with most Super providers can be of significant value when you consider the cost of this when the market moves etc.

    • Thanks for the write up, this is interesting

      • i went with these guys they are really good https://www.andromedae.com.au/ currently invested in property development CPA very nice returns at the moment admin fee is about 250 a months for andromedae and thats it.

        • I mean look if you are happy with them, great…..but:

          https://www.andromedae.com.au/faqs

          SMSF setup fee: $3490 is the minimum cost!!!
          Monthly fees: $249 (no property - $2988p.a), $289 (with property - $3468 p.a)

          Not sure exactly what you perceive they might do for others or indeed you that Stake Super Property would not do for $1690 ($1490 using a referral) and $0 setup fee. I mean over the first 5yrs alone thats a massive saving ($12,580!!!!!).

          Apply some compund interest to that over the remaining lifespan of your Super and it'd be easily a $100,000+ saving by instead using Stake for your own needs. :-/

          • @Daniel Plainview: when i signed up it was 1000 bucks setup fee. didn't realized the price went up for those guys. They do a good job they do everything for you with all your approvals, setup bank accounts setup the CPA fund and invest the fund automatically if you choose. the admin fee offsets from the returns from the cpa fund. whichj so far have been very nice indeed, the higher the cost of housing the better it gets thats with investing in development (not a single house with rent). With the amount of returns I get it out ways ths cost of admin fees with andromedae. But hey it depends on how risky you investing is, if you go all in like I do then the cost of admin fees isn;t an issue. Eventrually the plan is to move over to buying houeses over time and build the porfolio thats the 2 year plan.

            • @kungfuman: Understood, but the investment returns have nothing to do with the performance of the administrator i.e saying you get good returns so the outgoing fees being literally 100% more than Stake Property is moot.

              Again get a compound interest calculator and compare that fee difference and then factor in 6-8% annual returns on it for the remaining time you expect to be in Super. I guarantee you it's a very large number and all for what? :-/

              Even a $1000 setup fee is $1000 more than Stake Super, who charge $0.

              All that other stuff you stated that they do is standard for a property SMSF administrator. Anyway I do wish you all the best with them and your future investments. :-)

              • @Daniel Plainview: doing somethign for free is more suspicious to me because nothing is free you always end up paying for it in the end. so a $0 setup fee means they will be making there money off you somewhere else.

                • @kungfuman: this review is interesting on stake super
                  Richard
                  Richard 2 posts

                  9mo
                  Not worth their fees – I have had endless issue with this company. There is no phone number to phone which means you are constantly waiting for someone to get back to you. It takes days to sort out the most simple of issues. The app is also very unreliable, you go through all the steps to transfer AUD to the Wall Street section and the transaction will fail without any notification to you. If you are time sensitive with your investments, this is just an awful company to deal with. I am waiting to buy stock and need Stake to confirm whether my currency has been transferred, but of course there is no phone number and now I must wait until they can be bothered to reply to my email. last week I had to wait days before somebody from this company provided me with a simple document my super company needed to complete the rollover. These guys have been an endless hassel to deal with

                  • @kungfuman: Firstly, perhaps chuck a link up rather than just referencing as thats a tad more transparent. Can you link this please?

                    Secondly, so your point is they've had a customer who was disgruntled? I mean ok….I am sure there is plenty more, but by the same token we both know there'd be many positive ones as well - and I would put it to you they would significantly outweigh the negative ones in total.

                    As you said you're happy paying literally double in annual fees with your SMSF provider - whats more to say?

                    FYI if you setup your SMSF with your Andromedae mob, the EXTRA cost to you vs Stake Property would be……and buckle in $2336,536.
                    30yrs, $3490 setup, $1778 extra in annual fees, assumed 8% returns (long term historical average in Australia).
                    https://moneysmart.gov.au/budgeting/compound-interest-calcul…

                    So thats near 1/4 of a million $$$ less. I rest my case.

                      • @kungfuman: Cool, as I said a single negative review is unfortunate but when viewed in perspective with all the others a tad more meaningful? i.e sample size.

                        • @Daniel Plainview: only takes one alot of review site have alot of paid reviews so its negative reviews are usually the real reviews.

                          • @kungfuman: kungfuman, You just keep spouting terribly poor judgements you've made. i.e getting it completely arsebackwards!

                            As I literally wrote a REAL REVIEW as mine is one of the ~100 positive reviews for Stake Super on that site and I didn't get anything from them nor anything but my actua experience. That site will not show you who is best - thats subjective and highly personal - but it will show you who is utter rubbish. Where's your provider by the way? ;-)

                            You post up one bad review implying it's gospel, recommend grossly overcharging service provider who I have SHOWN would charge ~$250,000 more over a 30yr span using them, have banged on about hidden fees despite having the FULL fee schedule posted up.

                            You have now shown several times to have very little insight about this subject - your current provider, that you came specifically to recommend unquestionably proves that beyond a reasonable doubt.

                          • @kungfuman: That's nonsense

                      • @kungfuman: 4.8 out of 5 is pretty impressive review. That is gold standard.

                        • @No ONE: To be fair Product Review.com is known to be pretty easily manipulated - so I'd take all the service provider's ratings with a grain of salt, Stake Super included.

                          They do tend though to highlight who is ghastly and to avoid at all costs - posting up here a single bad review though as that user did is pretty pointless - especially given the maths I ran on his current provider, who is too obscure to even rate a mention pretty much anywhere online though that that price I'd hope they were outstanding.

                    • @Daniel Plainview: Stake super are a business they make money like any other, terms like $0 setup fees etc are all gimmics to suck people in. So i would be more interested in what hidden fees that have

                      • @kungfuman: I've already posted up their itemised fee schedule twice - but you'd have me do it again?

                        https://assets.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte98f61d722cde430…

                        Not sure why you are overly fussed given you found a single bad review froma customer and you're paying literally double what Stake would charge you for your assets in annual fees via your own provider.

                        Compound interest is an interesting thing now then isn't it. ;-) I wish I could be on the income you must be to not sniff at a six figure saving just by changing your admin provider. Nice work if you can get it I guess. :-)

                    • @Daniel Plainview: TYPO: The additional fees & lost investment returns from @kungfuman 's recommended provider is $236,536 over 30years. Assumptions in calculating this stated in the original post - I can't edit the amount and accidently put an extra 3 in there.
                      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/17085966/redir

                      Screenshot of the calcs:
                      https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/4772/125424/screenshot…

                  • @kungfuman:

                    If you'd like to speak to a Stake representative over the phone, give us a call on (02) 8294 6149 between 9:30am-4:30pm (AEST/AEDT), Monday to Friday (excluding non-trading days).

                    Doesn't help when it just plays a recorded message that they are too busy to take your call.

                • @kungfuman: Yeah I have no idea what i can say back - as my calculations below showed the company you posted up to recommend is over 30years going to be nearly $250,000 more expensive in fees and lost returns due to these fees not having instead been invested.

                  So if thats your expert judgement i.e no setup fee is suspicious. I would refer folks back to the product you recommended and ask them to make their own mind up as to the validity of your judgement vs mine. Best of luck with Andromedae.

                  • @Daniel Plainview: I appreciate all the information but untill I know more about there fee system I can't say yay or nay

                  • @Daniel Plainview: do you work for these guys or something?

                    • @kungfuman: :-/

                      Clown question.
                      No, I don't. However, the question instead should be, what inducements are you receiving to come here specifically to recommend another provider who currently charges:
                      SMSF establishment/setup fee: Minimum $3490
                      Monthly Fee: $289 ($3468 p.a)
                      https://www.andromedae.com.au/faqs

                      Instead of for the exact same ATO compliancy with Stake Super Property pay $1690p.a ($140p.m) with $0 setup fee. So if you are not being paid by them - you should be as all other motivations tend to look rather unflattering on your financial accumen.

                      PS. Yes I know you don't work for your SMSF provider as you didn't even KNOW their fees yet still came to recommend them. e.g had no idea the setup fee was $3500, said it was $250pm when it was $289 - rank amateur effort!
                      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/17085673/redir

                      • @Daniel Plainview: I know the fees I never said I didn't, I went with them because they are highly recommended, the other reason is I can go to the physical office since they are only on the gold coast.

                        • @kungfuman: Cool story - keep us all posted. Best of luck.

                          • @Daniel Plainview: show me where I said I didn't know the fees of my own provider? and yes there address is on the gold coast and I can go to there office can you do the same with yours? Cool story my arse.

                            • @kungfuman:

                              show me where I said I didn't know the fees of my own provider?

                              Why do I have to educate you on your repeated ignorance?

                              when i signed up it was 1000 bucks setup fee. didn't realized the price went up for those guys.

                              at the moment admin fee is about 250 a month

                              Need more? Go look at your own posts, wake up man.

                              • @Daniel Plainview: setup fee was different when I did this just because I wasn't up to date on todays fee doesnt' mean I don't know all the fees I signed up for are.

                                • @kungfuman: You didn't know the fees for the product you were recommending to other members! Its that simple.

                                  I can literally quote your errors verbatim back to you and you STILL make excuses - LOL. Like I said, best of luck as IMHO you are going to need it with your demonstrated judgement or rather lack there of.

                                  • @Daniel Plainview: I wasn't recommending a product i was recommending the company is all i was doing. So what excuse are you talking about ? because I didn't know 1 setup fee lol. thats what your hung up on?

                                    • @kungfuman:

                                      I wasn't recommending a product i was recommending the company is all i was doing.

                                      I know I shouldn't but I can't let such outlandish comments get by unchecked.

                                      That company you came here to recommend to other users, despite not knowing their fees - and now you're saying "I wasn't recommending a product, but instead the company" - well they ONLY HAVE ONE PRODUCT/SERVICE they provide.

                                      They do absolutely nothing else but setup, administer and ongoingly manage client's SMSF's: https://www.andromedae.com.au/

                                      So you can walk back, deflect or feign ignorance all you like but by recommending them you by default recommended their very highly priced SMSF services as their business does absolutely nothing else but this!

                                    • @kungfuman: You sounds like their sale rep tbh….. and you are not doing a good job i must say.

                      • @Daniel Plainview: Thanks for sharing the maths Daniel.

                        Based off Andromedae fees I would never go with them… Kungfoo is trying to push them and it's backfired badly based of their schedule of rates.

                        1000s of people will see this and avoid them! what kind of person is willing to pay an extra $250k over 30 years….

                        • @Jessie Ryder: Yes, well I have serious issues when someone comes into an existing deal thread solely to recommend a product/provider instead of the deal itself and is completely ignorant to things as basic as pricing, which is in anyone's book a core part of any critique. I've zero issues if folks prefer other providers, but constructively discussing them is a floor requirement to me - rather than making assertions with no factual support or logic.

                          However I will defend his service provider and say just maybe their service and the ability to facilitate face to face with them is worth it for him and others. But they're literally just administrators….so it's not like they can recommend superior assets etc to make up that fee disparity etc.

                          Personally I think that individual had/has no idea such a fee disparity makes that much of a difference over the long term - but thats why it's critical to atleast be aware of such things and certainly not to mislead others and imply that it's neither here nor there as the investments are performing well NOW.

                          This excellent article deals with a tangentially related issue all of us should bear in mind, when we look at the fees incured by our super funds:
                          https://passiveinvestingaustralia.com/how-1-percent-fees-cos…

                          Cheers again for your reply as he was if nothing else very 'sure' of his recommendation. Go figure.

    • keen to look at this for myself and the missus, how difficult is it to add members? Does one of you sign up then add a member or do both of you have to sign up?

      • I've only done it the once, my wife and I were both added as trustees as part of the initial setup process. Was very simple, all forms were edocs, click to complete type thing.

        Adding additional members later on should be relatively straight forward - it can work out quite well if a family for example brought their adult children into it etc - all costs are shared. You can even 'partition' off holdings etc - so that for example if your 25yr old son insisted on directly holding some TSLA stock etc - this could be done rather than just having his share of the 'shared' investments.

        PS. I have copied this from the Stake Super Hub (like an info wiki that members have access to once they sign up):

        Adding a member requires the individual to complete a member application and ATO Trustee Declaration for the SMSF and some other relevant minutes and declarations. Any new members also need to be added as directors to the SMSF trustee company. The ATO also needs to be updated and it can take up to 28 days before the new members can elect to transfer existing super to the SMSF. Please contact us by emailing smsf@hellostake.com to confirm the information required and fee applicable to add a new member.

        And from their fee schedule a new member added(or removed) costs $199 fee.
        https://assets.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte98f61d722cde430…

        • You can even 'partition' off holdings etc

          I was told separate holdings was not possible and also if there are multiple members and one enters pension mode, selling assets will trigger cgt for others on a proportional basis. Confusing. Also sad because I literally signed up on Saturday and this deal pops up today.

          • @soan papdi: Hmmm oh you might be right on that point - I believe some SMSF providers do this but hey I've been wrong once so could be again.

            Yes, so you'd be right if the assets are not partitioned off - then asset sales would affect other members - but this said generally you;re looking at spouses and maybe children being in the fund - so it's a problem but not the worst one…….it'd be a brave person who goes into an SMSF with a bunch of pals.

            Ummm I'd contact them and ask about it - meaning maybe trying to add a referral code retrospecitively. In my experience they're very logic based rather than beng hard and fast with rules - I mean you could likely say "Look I could cancel now and get a full refund, and do again with the code so can I not just add it now as a friend sent it to me in an email but it went to my SPAM folder etc and I did not see it etc" Any white lie will do, often the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

          • @soan papdi: Replying to myself. I called Stake and they confirmed that partitioning/separating investments is not possible. If any asset is sold, the Capital Gain/Loss is proportionately (as per contributions) allocated to all members, then futher rules apply if any of them are in pension/accumulation mode.

            • @soan papdi: Cheers for doing this. Another person was asking later in the thread, so appreciate your efforts to clarify.

    • when it's status is changed from 'Accumulation' to 'Pension' be 100% tax free.

      if it's status is changed from 'Accumulation' to 'Pension' be 100% tax free. Pension accounts are limited by the personal Transfer Balance Cap with any balance remaining in an accumulation account.

      I have a SMSF but I'd hope nobody would jump into a SMSF on the basis of this thread.

      • Pension accounts are limited by the personal Transfer Balance Cap with any balance remaining in an accumulation account.

        True but I didn't state otherwise. It's indexed and is currently $2m. For most people thats something to aspire to and a BIG portion of that will be made of capital gain, not contributions.

        Therefore not paying a single cent of the 10% or 15% super tax on this is potentially very signicant. There's a reason why an increasing number of super funds are very reluctantly giving some of this money back to members often terming it a 'retirement bonus' etc but it's generally capped and calculations on it are very opaque. Its a very dodgy area overall that they are loathe to discuss for good reason.

        • You know someone with a $1.6M personal Transfer Balance Cap will never currently be $2M.

          At least make the referrer bonus sales pitch a bit more even-handed.

          • @flywire: Actually I hadn't looked into it much as I'm a ways off - the TBC is currently set at $1.6-2m - my point remains that being able to avoid CGT on much of this is a significant benefit as that article I linked explained.

            At least make the referrer bonus sales pitch a bit more even-handed.

            How so? Its not my promo - I've literally stated it as is and given the T&C etc for it , what more could I do? I mean sheez there wasn't even that referral on the site at all until i went and requested it be put in place by the mods and now a few hours later there's 22+ people standing to save $200 each from it.
            https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/17073387/redir

            By definition the same reward for the inviter as the invitee would be considered pretty 'even handed'. But please let me know what you feel I should also have done? :-)

    • I don't like the bank account arraignment with Stake, with esuperfund you get your own ANZ account, this is better for $250000 reasons

      • You simply ask Stake and they will set you up with a Macquarie Bank CMA, which is a superior product to the ANZ V2 account. There's zero fee for doing this.

        If you're leaving too much cash in your SMSF you're somewhat missing the point regardless. Cash assets, which have near identical traits (as they too are literally held in cash deposits) like AAA, MMKT and BILL tend to return higher than SMSF accounts themselves - which are notoriously poor interest payers.

    • Hi Daniel,
      A good share. And some great research and insights here.

      I will just point out one thing. One matter that you have repeated brought up is CGT on unrealised assets as one moves from accumulation to pension phase - while this may not be true for every retail fund, in recent years, many retail funds provide their members with a refund of provisioned CGT in unit prices - just google retirement bonus which will discuss how public offer funds provide a credit as a member moves from accumulation to pension phase.

      • Hi Rahul,

        Thats a fair comment and I'd not expected you to find it in my myriad of replies but I did touch on this a few hours before you posted up:
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/17084107/redir

        Alas as stated it's still very much the exception and not the rule. Its something a handful are doing very reluctantly and so imagine all those years they simply pocketed those funds themselves (the funds).

        Now that said the 'retirement bonus' a handful of them give is very opaquely calculated and generally limited - so to me thats more of a minor concession rather than actually giving the members what they're owed - for the member calculating such a thing is near impossible. Conversely an SMSF at any point should have have a very good idea where it sits with it's capital growth etc which makes it much easier to do utilise the tax system for your advantage. Full transparency for the member/s is a huge advantage IMHO.

    • Please note anyone considering changing SMSF Administrator (eg to Stake or any other provider) will be carrying over their SMSF Trust Deed from inception.

      This is a substantial legal document that details the scope of the fund to operate. It will need to be reviewed carefully to ensure it allows you to do everything that your platform (eg Stake) offers as well as what is possible with current legislation.

      Depending on the quality of the existing deed, it may trigger the need for a Deed of Amendment. The Stake Super Fees schedule lists a “Quote on Request” charges for this service.

      My understanding is that a review with Stake may be free upon request, but if an SMSF solicitor is required to draft a Deed of Amendment there would a cost involved.

      Make sure you check before you leap!

    • How do I get a referral? Thanks

        • Thanks you I have sent a message I am planning to get 990 plan over the holidays. I have been managing my portfolio and if there is a forum for investment into stock it would be great to be part of. I know high quality forums but not in Australia. Good thing stake allows to invest in usa

          • @onegpt: Hi,
            Share ownership is so widespread these days that quality discussion of it often can be found in forums which are non-specialists in this subject and personally I find this preferrable as the expert share ownership places are often focused on day trading, derivatives etc.

            The one I found to have the best community interaction is over at Whirlpool:
            https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/150?g=387

            The Financial Independence Australia sub at Reddit is good too:
            https://www.reddit.com/r/fiaustralia/

            Beyond that sure there are dozens but I think it can end up becoming paralysis by analysis with too much info and competing opinions. WP is best as people get very constructive replies, very rapidly and it's a very civil and mature crowd (which I think is an advantage as they tend to have done it already on the super/SMSF front).

            Hmmm yes look if you must invest directly into the USA, sure but as mentioned earlier with many folks wanting ETF exposure as their primary focus there's very little that you can't get already on the ASX thats in the US. Sure they might have a different name and a slightly higher MER but for all intents and purposes it's the same underlying assets - and you don't have the extra potential issues and FX stuff that comes with foreign holdings. :-)

  • Anyone using stake super plus? And if so what investments do you have ?

    • As flagged I am only in Stake Super (ASX+US equities) - but this article covers what an SMSF can legally invest in - all of which are acceptable in the Stake Super Plus options:
      https://www.bottomlinecontrol.com.au/info/what-can-smsf-inve…

      I will simply note that it's not a bad idea to take a balanced approach to compliment whatever assets you hold outside of your Super i.e if you own your PPOR, you may not wish to own additional property within your SMSF and instead you may wish to have exposure to foreign assets to reduce the risk of currency fluctuations etc.

    • I also manage my own portfolio. This is not a stocks forum but I would be happy to be part of a stocks forum and if you want to connect that would be great as well

      • ye lets get in touch send me a dm!

  • Are we able to switch to a different plan next year?

    • Yes.

      Say if in the 1st year at $990 (potentially minus $200 from the referral) you might hold some crypto and precious metals - as long as they are off the books of the SMSF by the end of that 1st year, you can contact the Support and ask to move to an alternative plan i.e you instead hold only Equities and Property within the SMSF so you can move to the Stake Super Property plan for the next financial year.

      • Thx for sharing

        • Mate, sorry I feel compelled to tag you in a reply as I had to correct my OP as I had something wrong - the any fee for $990 (less $200) only applies for existing SMSFs transferring to Stake Super - new ones which have to be setup do not get this. APologies for any confusion.

  • This is a low price, but Stake are absolute bottom of the barrel

    • In which regard did you find them not up to your expectations? This is their Super or general brokerage services?

      • Just beware of these tech companies. They lure people in at low costs the boom, start jacking when they want to list.

        • Sorry but that might be true of others but Stake Super has had the same pricing since their launch several years ago - so this is definitely not a bait & switch/pricejack situation.

        • There's a valid point here. Stake (share trading) does have a history of rug pulling after a baiting campaign. Got a lot of people to transfer portfolios over with the then touted pricing structure, and within 1-2 years introduced a whole bunch of new trading fees.

          • @bigbadaboom:

            and within 1-2 years introduced a whole bunch of new trading fees.

            What were the new fees? I've not seen anything new on the ASX side of things in the 5+ years I've used them on the non-super brokerage. The US stuff I have never used, as I find the ASX stuff more than covers the exposures needed.

            • @Daniel Plainview: They offered free trades. That was their whole brand, even in advertising pointing at the competition and touting their fee structure (taking their cut off FX fees instead). . International trades were completely free. Now $3 per trade. On top of the other places they take a cut. I ditched them after that… Few years ago. eToro, IBKR and similar ended up way better for most.

              • @bigbadaboom: Isn't stake still heaps cheaper than commsec?

                • @m0tyrider: CommSec was generally the worst of the lot. Worst UI, unusable on mobile, $10 per trade, etc. So it wasn't hard to get better than them.

                  Though I think CommSec has made some improvements very recently.

              • @bigbadaboom: Hmmmmm I've been with their brokerage side (ASX only) since the first year they came into Australia. Now they never offered free trades as anything other than a short term promo thing i.e they I think still have a certain number of free trades you can get if you transfer your existing holdings over to their non-super brokerage business.

                But free trades period? Not while I've been with them - has always been $3 for up to $30,000 of assets on the ASX.

                Its a pretty mature business model they have now so I would be relatively confident that they, unlike some of the very new guys in the market like Webull, Moomoo, eToro etc would have a relatively static offering on the price front for some time to come.

                • @Daniel Plainview: I've also been there from the start. They definitely had free and did the bait and switch March 2023 or so. here are Reddit convos discussing the older fees: https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/ioqojq/stake_pr…

                  AFR: https://www.afr.com/wealth/investing/zero-brokerage-trading-…

                  • @bigbadaboom: Appreciate the links but I never doubted you - it was just that you had never stipulated what exchange this fee issue was on - as mentioned I've always stuck with ASX stuff with them and their pricing in the 6+yrs hasn't changed essentially at all.

                    But from what you've said I can see they've changed on their US stuff but I dunno if a price increase alone could be fairly termed a 'bait & switch' (especially when you have the price at $0 for six(6) years BEFORE increasing it!) as it could just be that variables on their side changed to make such an offering no longer financially viable. But I get it, thats not ideal - but I mean I've been through a dozen or so brokers in my life, so you just switch and get on with things.

                    Brokerage costs for SMSF are pretty darn low compared to everything else - so if that is a concern I'd model out the projected costs and weigh it against everything else. Its one thing to pay $0 at ABC broker for trades etc but get stung with any number of other fees.

                • @Daniel Plainview: Stake has definitely not had $3 up to $30,000 from the start. Stake was a flat $3 ASX brokerage then bait and switched to $3 up to $30,000 then 0.01% above.

                  It was well discussed on forums how they were ripping off customers with FX fees. https://www.reddit.com/r/StakeStockTraders/comments/1b95yil/…

                  They also have the gall to offer instant funds transfers in for 0.5%. You know, the thing other brokers and banks offer without cost.

                  Stop schilling

                  • @HarrietTheTortoise: First, I'm not 'shilling' for anyone - as that would require being paid by them - so get your facts straight.

                    Second, I've said umpteen times I have never used Stake's FX services but still conceded they have gotten bad press in what I've read - I know they reduced rates recently and other Australian brokers also cop poor feedback on their FX rates.

                    And finally, thats a fair point re: the $3 brokerage limits changing but I genuinely didn't recall that as it's been such a long time now. So happy to be corrected.

                    That said I really have no idea what the relevance of a business changing their pricing structure once in 8yrs or so is? The accusations of bait & switch are laughable when you examine that they kept their US pricing at $0 for six(6) years and only then changed them….that is by definition not a bait & switch which is done quickly AFTER the customers have moved across.

                    So I get it prices increases are a PITA but one in 6yrs on the US side and one in 8 years on the AU side isn't exactly predatory or questionable given the inflationary pressures in that time - and their Super product - which is what this thread is on, has stayed at $990 since launch. :-)

                    • @Daniel Plainview: According to the Wayback Machine Stake wasn't offering AU shares in 2020. Again you're incorrect stating they haven't changed their prices in 8 years when they haven't offered the service that long.
                      The hellostake.com domain was only registered in 2018.

                      • @HarrietTheTortoise: It's somewhat ironic that a user who tosses completely baseless and unsupported accusations at others of being a paid shill is when it comes to other things a stickler for detail.

                        But again I was just going off the cuff while I tried to prepare breakfast for my family and as this detail is being belaboured I have checked and you are in this regard 100% correct - so thank you for correcting me on that detail. I've been with their AU brokerage since 2020, which has had a single change to their pricing model in that time limiting the parcel on a $3 fee to $30,000.

                        The eight(8) years was more meant for their US side - which a previously linked article from 2023 stated had been in place for 6 years - 2 +6 is 8 - but is a quick, simple error. Unlike others I try to respond to people ASAP out of respect, talking crap and ignoring this seems to be par for the course here but I do TRY to give back the respect I am shown and would hope for myself. :-)

                        Now that said as I have conceded my errors perhaps moving forward if you're going to expect spot on accuracy from others, try likewise doing it for yourself as well as I don't appreciate utterly baseless accusations of being a shill.

                        PS. Congrats on being a member since…hmm literally last night, and your only comments EVER were in this thread accusing me of being a shill. Is there anything you wish to disclose on any business associations etc ? ;-) https://www.ozbargain.com.au/user/588950

                        As I've been a member here at time of writing for ~150% more years than you have been a member in HOURS I will give an observation on new members who immediately either aggressively attack or support a business. A very high % of the time they are either associated with that business or a rival of theirs. Just saying…

  • This is a good deal but needs to be said if you don't have experience managing a decent sized share portfolio this probably isn't the product for you.
    If you are going to panic sell or put your entire super into speccy mining stocks or crypto you will get burned and the negative effects are life changing.

    But if you can manage your investment mindset it's great.

    • Excellent advice and I agree 100% - though to be fair, with the access we now have to our own general Super funds etc - we can make pretty much as much of a mess via them as well - though I will concede that as an SMSF trustee has more leeway with asset selection this has a wider range of ways one could do that.

      Superannuation is a long term investment. Thus reacting to short term events is generally not advisable.

      There's an often cited study that Fidelity Investments did in the USA, contacting their best returns getting members and they found that a very high % of them were DECEASED. The take away is often doing nothing rather than short term changes, gives the best results in the long term.

      As for asset selection there are now so many top tier investment options available the 'not being able to select an asset' rationale doesn't hold the sway it used to. i.e all in one already diversified products like DHHF, VDHG etc
      https://www.betashares.com.au/fund/diversified-all-growth-et…
      https://www.vanguard.com.au/personal/invest-with-us/etf?port…

      Furthermore as has been established passively managed products tend to outperform actively managed products over the long term - so one can pick some low cost index fund ETFs and do very little to them for a long period of time.

      • It's got nothing to do with the products on offer. I'm well aware of DHHF and VDHG.
        When you manage an SMSF you are forced to make decisions, I think you overestimate the financial literacy of the average person.
        For the average person, an industry fund that automatically invests their super fortnightly or monthly is superior to an SMSF.
        Most people don't even log into their super fund to check the balance more than a couple of times a year.

        For people with financial literacy an SMSF can be great, as long as their super balance is actually high enough for it to have lower fees. This is a minority of people though, probably not even 10℅ of the population.

        • Firstly, I understand what you are saying. As stated earlier - with any super fund, the member is essentially forced to make decisions - the only difference is that if you don't they'll put you on the MySuper products, which are far from a great idea - it's just better than what they used to do many years ago.

          That said this thread/deal is not financial advice and I am not in a position to say whats best for people, especially without specific knowledge of their circumstances. So by the same token I would say you cannot say for the average person an industry fund is superior. It works both ways.

          There's honestly too many factors to cover to decide which one is the 'superior' choice. As with most things in life, yuo get out what you put in - i.e very little effort often gives very little returns.

          From experience it's no where near as complex as I thought, in fact massively less so than simply owning shares (as most Australians do) in non-super - as all the returns etc are done for you. One of the good things is that it gets people taking more interest in their own finances, which traditionally is a major challenge for many.

          Again though I in NO WAY intend any of this deal to be seen as SMSF's are the best thing since sliced bread - you have to have a certain level of super, financial accumen or willingness to get it (which is very simple!) and put a few hours in a year.

          I suppose I would also point out that there's a reason why SMSFs have a disproportionate amount of the overall Super funds within them i.e the % of folks that have them hold a much higher % of overall super funds. Lots of good info on the trends with them at the ATO:
          https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/super-for-in…

        • Even though it's a long term investments. The tax advantage on short term is compelling. Stocks can fall a lot for eg dominos and ASX had fallen a lot and I think they will recover . Even if you don't intend to hold for 10 years it's a good trade and if you want to hold for ever something like brk or spy you are better off doing that in taxable account instead. Hope that makes sense

      • Superannuation is a long term investment. Thus reacting to short term events is generally not advisable.

        That's only if you delegate the management to "professionals". If you're gonna do it yourself, you can't just think "oh, it's long term it's gonna go up ultimately." That's how you end end holding the bags. Hence agree with alphas, if you don't have a minimum experience with a decent portfolio, best to stay away.

        • If you're gonna do it yourself, you can't just think "oh, it's long term it's gonna go up ultimately." That's how you end end holding the bags.

          Stats just don't back this up. i.e not meddling with your investments is more often than not the vastly superior thing to do.

          The bottomline is that if people are bad investors, they will be bad investors with or without a SMSF - over on the investment forums I'm on there have been numerous threads in the last week alone from people with super funds asking if they should go completely into cash, as they're worried abuot a global market correction.

          In this way the SMSF is a furfy i.e it doesn't make a difference - what really needs to be done is self education for those people. Now all that said I 100% agree with both you and @alphas in that SMSFs like MOST products are not for everyone. Some will benefit from them massively, others will financially disadvantage themselves. :-)

    • Dammit was gonna all in on Crypto.

    • +1 vote from me - and I tried to keep as short as possible but it's really hard to cover things that a new to SMSF's person will not know like the free corporate trustee setup they provide etc.

      I wanted to cut corners on the info but felt I'd chuck it up and HOPEFULLY folks could ignore me and just go to the link and see what they say themselves. But I do agree I wish I'd written less. My bad.

      • Is it worth being on an SMSF to invest in ETFs when most regular super funds let you invest in index funds?

        • Chalk and cheese. the investment options via most funds, even those that have direct asset holding otions are incredibly limiting compared to an SMSF. Good luck finding out which underlying funds the super funds use as some are a lot better at tracking their nominated index than others. I mean look it's great that you can now get low cost index options via most suer funds - but you still have the rest of the super fund issues e.g you are losing your unrealised capital gains tax component every year, slow responses, asset change delays, lack of choice etc.

          Plus many of them still have silly fees for total assets under management etc, which a lot of folks are paying blindly.

  • Imagine putting your retirement assets into a broker which never bought your assets.

    That's what you're dealing with in return for cheap fees.

    • Can you elaborate? is this like synthetic assets with stake?

      • Yes Stake is a front for PFOF, that's why they started as a US only trade business. The later introduction of ASX trading is front to ease you into their model.

        Ask yourself how they can offer ETFs so cheaply and why they recommend them: front running your orders. You are betting against yourself on long positions.

        Also why do they charge exuberant fees for direct registration transfers when other brokers are free or next to free? Pretty obvious they never bought your assets.

        Don't care what people say. Just ask yourself if that's the type of custodian you want holding your multi-decade long portfolio.

        • https://www.asic.gov.au/about-asic/news-centre/find-a-media-release/2021-releases/21-224mr-asic-consults-on-payment-for-order-flow-rule-amendments/#:~:text=Payment%20for%20order%20flow%20(PFOF,Under%20Rule%205.4B.)

          Payment for order flow is not prevalent in the Australian equity market

        • You have no clue what you're talking about. Stake is not the custodian for ASX-based ETF's, it's CHESS sponsored. Stake could go broke tomorrow and you could log into your registry and move your assets wherever you want.

          They're not that much cheaper than other ASX brokers, but they do make a killing on the FX transfers to trade other markets.

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