Should I Seek Reimbursement for Funeral Expenses from the Deceased's Estate?

I was recently named executor of a friend's will. At the time of his passing, I believed the estate was quite small and potentially insolvent as his bank accounts held only about $80. As a close friend, I chose to cover his funeral expenses personally without assessing the full scope of the estate.

Three months later, I discovered that he held shares valued at approximately $10,000, which could be liquidated. I had also paid off his credit card debts under the assumption that the estate had no assets.

Now I am considering whether I should seek reimbursement for the funeral and debt payments. I understand that funeral expenses typically take priority over other debts, but I am concerned about potential creditor claims. Technically since I cannot distribute an insolvent estate, is this actually classed an estate distribution or not?

Or have I screwed up and I take the L and distribute the funds from the shares to the beneficiary? Or if I was going to do this, alternatively should I try to reimburse myself and then gift an equivalent to the beneficiary from my own funds?

Would it be advisable to file a notice of intention to distribute the estate, even if I am only reimbursing myself, to ensure proper protection and transparency.

The total funeral costs were $18,000 and the beneficiary listed on the will helped to plan it.

The question is I have now is whether this amount which is a reasonable amount for a funeral. I believe it was but the creditors if any exist might believe cremation for sub $2,000 is more acceptable… I do not think there will be any further creditors as my friend had no borrowing capacity and I'm surprised he had a credit card, but you never know in this crazy world.

Have you guys been through something similar and what were your experiences?

I'm leaning more towards not taking the reimbursement, but also wondering if there might be a better way to protect the beneficiary because I don't want to go through all this and then for some random debt collector to suddenly appear making my efforts pointless, i.e. both myself and the beneficiary is out of pocket for no apparent reason except my hubris.

Comments

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  • +37

    Sounds like you didn’t take executor training

    • +17

      I did not know there was such educational training and overall, the cost of seeking legal advice would probably outweigh the cost of the debt.

      The estate was not going to need to be probated, but I was quoted around $3,000 for assistance.

      Credit card debt was $1,389.73 in total as given on the Statement of Position.

      Feel free to list free types of services others can use in the future. Otherwise I suspect, unless I tell my story, that others will likely fall into the similar situations. I searched and hadn't found anything on Ozbargain at the time.

      I'm still wondering if I can recall that transaction because I felt like I was pressured over the phone, but I'm happy to take the L on that. If it really was as simple as people put it out to be, then I wouldn't have paid. I was not calling them after being prepared; it was the bank calling me and I felt like they put me in a position where I was obligated to pay…

      The call was recorded by the bank, so I might possibly be able to get it back, but recovering that would probably cost more in legal fees. Do you know what I mean?

      In my shoes I was just someone who had finished planning a funeral, and was now going through the motions of discovering if there are any assets, notifying banks, cancelling subscriptions & utilities, cataloguing and valuing any valuables (was only a bed and tv). Is this just one of the risks we have to take with small estates? I wasn't going to spend $3,000 on advice and then there are additional fees for disbursements or every time they distributed something…

      Even if I knew there were shares, I still would have unlikely spent $3,000 + disbursement fee related to the shares sale. I'm not sure what the exact figures would have been because the solicitors never quote it in full, but I'm sure it would have been at least another $500 to help assist with disbursing the $10,000 in Telstra shares. It doesn't make sense to seek that kind of advice, especially since I thought there was actually nothing there. Remember that…

      If it's a small estate and many people leave the world with not much, then what I did was perfectly reasonable. Except, maybe becoming pressured into paying the credit card debt, but that's my fault.

      • +7

        It seems you re over-thinking it. $18k for a funeral may be extravagent, but $10k is not. Just take it. Who is going to object?

        If asking for legal advise, you should say you are in NSW.
        Also, I have found that AI gives more helpful answers on such legal issues. Give it a try. Just lay out the facts concisely, including your jurisdiction.

        • +1

          I have found AIs give attitudinally helpful but not correct answers on many issues, not just legal. Even processing something as simple as 3-page document broken into titled sections, I've experienced AIs missing while sections to give entirely wrong answers to closed yes/no questions.

          One of the problems with using AI is you don't know what you don't know, so you also don't know what the AI doesn't know &/or hasn't factored in.
          The risks of getting something horribly wrong increase exponentially in these circumstances.

          That said, the most significant downside of AIs is they make people dumb and therefore more reliant on AI.
          Case-in-point: the little information sponges & enthusiastic learners better known as children.

          Teachers are experiencing severe reductions in what children are intellectually capable of from one generation to the next. Where students used to be asked 8-12 questions about non-factual learnings or inferences drawn from a 750-1,000 word passage, the current generation of children at the same age are struggling to answer a single factual question about a single 75 word paragraph.

          At the high school level and beyond the observable effect has been people losing the ability to think critically & problem solve.

          Please don't use AI as a search engine or stand-in for a professional/expert.
          It's bad for the environment and very bad for the human brain.

          • +2

            @BinaryPirate: Does not need to be 100% reliable to be helpful. Always confirm before acting!

            • +3

              @bargaino: First you say legal advice does not need to be 100% reliable to be helpful if you're seeking legal advice…. then you follow it up with advice to always confirm before acting.

              Wouldn't it make more sense to skip the unreliable first step and go straight to the reliable professional opinion at step 2?

            • @bargaino: AI regularly gives incorrect answers or hallucinates. Use AI to narrow down your query, then get proper advice on that.

          • @BinaryPirate: Wrong thread?

  • +44

    You sound like a good person.

    Most definitely make a claim of the funeral costs and debt payments.

  • +89

    I had also paid off his credit card debts

    Why? If there was no money in the estate, nothing would come of it, that's one of the risks credit card companies take on.

    • +12

      Oh, will someone think of the big banks?!

    • +3

      Yep, was thinking the same.

      Paying off a funeral because you are a good friend? sure, but paying the banks who already have those kind of risks built-in? foolish.

  • +34

    I'm trying to figure out why you paid his credit card debt?
    And yes, you should claim the funeral expenses.

    • Exactly, it seems pretty straight forward to me. You should be able to use whatever is in the estate to pay for the funeral/debt expenses, especially if it was planned with the beneficiaries who have full rights to whatever the inheritance is so there's no dispute. Can't claim the credits in an inheritance and pass on the debts lol, it doesn't work that way.

  • -3

    Executor 101

  • +25

    I had also paid off his credit card debts under the assumption that the estate had no assets

    You did WHAT?!

    • +5

      how do i become OP"s friend and get my credit cards cleared without dying?

      • Step 1: Become his friend

        Step 2: Don't die.

      • how do i become OP"s friend Link1

        and get my credit cards cleared without dying? Link2

  • +37

    Paying a deceased mates credit card debt is bonkers yet nobel.

    • +5

      They deserve a nobel prize.

      • +14

        Like that farmer who stood in his paddock for a week?

        Outstanding in his field.

    • I did the notification of deceased through the "Australian Death Notification Service", a few days later I got the call to bring in the death certificate to the bank and to come in with my ID and a copy of the will; and then a few weeks later the bank called me stating my friend had credit card debt and if there was anyway to pay it off.

      I didn't really seek advice prior to this but whilst I was on the phone (they called me) I proceeded to transfer the required funds to the deceased's bank account which was still open at the time. After I had done that, they told me the next step was to close the account and I told them to proceed. The call felt like it was very high pressure.

      This was around 2 months ago. I was never given a copy of the final credit card statement. I was only given a "Statement of Position".

      • +35

        the bank called me stating my friend had credit card debt and if there was anyway to pay it off.

        They tricked you.

        • +2

          Well, if the credit card debt did exist, they certainly found a way to pay it off.

          • +5

            @Muppet Detector: Not really, they simply asked him as the executor of the estate if there is any way to pay it off and the executor said yes. It’s not their job to figure out how that’s funded, that’s what the executor is for.

            • +1

              @Hydrool: And by asking, did the bank find a way to have the debt payed off? I said "yes", now what are you saying?

        • +9

          They tricked you

          What a bunch of bankers.

      • +2

        Which bank. I would contest this - claim duress or something.

    • +1

      how is it nobel? The only winners are the banks here….

  • +61

    Sorry for your loss - I've lost friends as well, and I know it can be hard.

    You might cop some criticism here for not being wiser, but you're a good person and your heart is in the right place. Society can sometimes be cruel to generous people - often we laugh at when generous people get screwed over rather than taking it as inspiration to be generous ourselves.

    I'm leaning more towards not taking the reimbursement, but also wondering if there might be a better way to protect the beneficiary because I don't want to go through all this and then for some random debt collector to suddenly appear making my efforts pointless, i.e. both myself and the beneficiary is out of pocket for no apparent reason except my hubris.

    Ultimately, I think there's two ways that you can think about this.

    First is to seek legal advice, have everything done properly. This will likely cost you even more, and leave the beneficiary with even less (if anything at all).

    Second is for both you and the beneficiary to acknowledge that your friend passed away not having very much. As such, there really is nothing for the beneficiary to inherit. Your friend's funeral costs will need to be paid, and debts will need to be paid. There's no reason why those costs should fall on you, and what the beneficiary is entitled to is what's left after the estate has been executed.

    In other words, this has nothing to do with your deceased friend anymore. If you choose to cover his funeral costs (and / or credit card debts) personally, then all you are doing is giving your own personal money to the beneficiary. You may wish to do this, and that's fine, but you need to be clear that this is what's happening. Without your personal contributions, then the funeral costs and debt would come out of the estate.

  • +11

    As the solicitor said when my father passed many years ago leaving very little, "They can sing for it." Meaning any creditors.

  • Yes

  • +4

    Your friend played it well by leaving nothing behind.

  • +35

    The short answer is you did everything in the wrong order and paid off the wrong things.

    • +6

      Everyone knows that any debt accrued is not passed on after the persons death, thats just insane.

      What is insane is if even one person believes this.

    • +12

      Wow.

      Is it fun being so nasty?

      The poster was obviously a loyal friend to his deceased friend and a decent person on the face of his actions. There are plenty of bad people in this world to gloat at.

      I pity you.

  • +7

    "The total funeral costs were $18,000"

    Wow. You spent 18k for a funeral on someone you thought had no money.

    • +8

      I'm just alarmed that a funeral costs $18,000.

      If the deceased is able, it is he who pays for it but it's not for his benefit, only for those who are left behind.

      • Funeral can surely be cheaper than that, 8-10 grand is that

      • +4

        It was a close friend from high school, but he was living in public housing.

        I am quite well off compared to him and basically let's just put it simply - I didn't have many friends in the past, and today I still don't many friends, and he just happened to be one of them.

        When I'm referring to the funeral, it includes cost of burial plot, internment fees and so on… I think it could have been cheaper but after selecting the flowers and coffin, I don't think I was too extravagant about it. I opted for the short 30 minute eulogy at the funeral parlour rather than organising for a church service, but it still came out to be quite higher than I originally expected given the estimates online… There were only three of us present.

        I don't believe the estimates on the NSW government website are good estimates. The cost for the funeral director was around $4000 and he told me that was around the average fee and looking online that fee looks quite reasonable, so I don't see how you could also get cremated too which costs another $2000 without the minimums falling closer to $6000 for a cremation and then there is a fee for internment of ashes and so on. I think those numbers need to be doubled to be more realistic since we are in the period of post-covid19 inflation. The figures on the moneysmart website seem more realistic, but I think the higher end needs to be doubled for more extravagant funerals since I didn't even select all the bells and whistles such as having a priest present and church service.

        • +3

          It would be a wonderful world if everybody had such a wonderful friend as you are and have been to this man :)

          Don't ever worry about the quantity of one's friends. It is the quality of those friends which is the true test of character.

          I am sorry for your loss and hope that fond memories quickly replace your grief from this loss.

          Best wishes.

          • @Muppet Detector: I'm still other people's comments below and I'm not sure if I overpaid, but I'm also including costs of writing the words onto the headstone too which was surprisingly expensive at $1,500… Stonemason cost…

            Are these supposed to be separate expenses, and is that why the estimates are different? My figure is for the whole total cost.

            I don't see how I can achieve the estimate from the NSW government

            • @ExecutorPains: I'm sorry, it has been over thirty years since I have been involved in the final preparations for a deceased person to this extent.

              I just found it startling to realise that it is more expensive to die than it is to be born. It never occurred to me that the final preparations for ordinary people were this expensive, that's all.

              I honestly have no idea if the costs you have covered are usual, but when you itemise everything that you have (so kindly) paid for, I guess those figures do add up and seem reasonable.

              But if I were in your position, if I weren't placing the intended beneficiary into a vulnerable position, I would certainly look to have the estate of the deceased cover any funeral expenses.

              If not for you, somebody else would have had to take on this task and the estate would still be expected to cover this expense.

              The beneficiary was involved in the organisation and could have raised any concerns or made alternative suggestions at any time, you didn't do this without their knowledge or in a vacuum.

              I can only imagine that to be an executor is an arduous job made even worse if it is for someone with whom you are close, particularly when everything is still so raw. The beneficiary is indeed fortunate that you were there, willing to step up and take on this role. Don't feel guilty or penalise yourself because you did.

              You have given your friend a respectful farewell whilst easing that burden for the beneficiary and others.

              • @Muppet Detector:

                I honestly have no idea if the costs you have covered are usual, but when you itemise everything that you have (so kindly) paid for, I guess those figures do add up and seem reasonable.

                There are a lot of what appear to be little things that all need paying for, whether for a cremation or burial.

                Cremation there's a council cost of around $1,300. A burial would be far more than that. Admin charges, celebrant chargers, catering (most won't allow you to do that yourself anymore.

                It isn't until you have to organise a funeral that you realise just how much is involved.

  • +5

    Who in the world had the final say in $18 000 for a funeral?….

    • +5

      Probably the next of kin who didn't have to pay for it and wanted a piss up at the wake.

      • +3

        Weird that this next of kin wasn't contacted for the credit card debt…

        • I find it more weird that a new account was made just to post this and that their profile picture is an AI generated man in a suit holding a clipboard.

          • @JIMB0: Nah, weird would have been using an avi from Thriller in which the OP photoshopped his face over Michael Jackson's.

            What do you think a man wearing a suit discussing the obligations of being an executor of a deceased estate should be holding?

        • No, it is dealt with all by the executor and no one else is the legal personal representative of the estate.

          What I've learned from the experience is that the next of kin isn't contacted at all.

        • Why would anybody contact the next of kin over credit card debt of the deceased if they weren't the executor of their estate?

          That wouldn't even happen unless that debt was secured in both names and the debt fell past due.

  • So the beneficiary helped plan the funeral, but did they know the approx. cost beforehand while planning? It seems very unfair on you (before discovery of assets). Were you aware of the approx. costs?

  • +3

    I had also paid off his credit card debts under the assumption that the estate had no assets.

    Why?

    • Because the executor had reason to believe that the deceased either didn't own any assets at the time of his death or that he distributed what he did own before he died which may explain the $10,000 that OP wasn't expecting.

      • +3

        Does the executor personally assume liability for the deceased's debts?

        • +4

          Apparently this one did. I would really want to like them if I were to do it though and even then, I can't think of a single reason why I would.

          Okay, Maybe to cover up some embarrassing or shady secret that would come out if that debt was of that nature, but as I said, to protect their reputation, I reckon I would really have to like them

          Imagine if that was a legal requirement. Nobody would ever agree to acting as executor to an estate. Just bananas!

          • +1

            @Muppet Detector: Paying debts can be seen as a matter of honour. I guess that is a bit old-fashioned.

            • @bargaino: Well yes, that is an excellent example.

              If it was somebody whom I really liked, of course I would want to protect their reputation and honour their commitments. It would be terrible if someone thought badly of them or was denied justified remunerations because of them.

              But I can't reimburse other creditors on behalf of people to whom I have no real attatchment. That is up to their friends and families to sort out. I'm not Elon musk or Bill Gates. I need to draw the line somewhere.

              • @Muppet Detector:

                I'm not Elon musk or Bill Gates.

                It was $1389.

                • +1

                  @bargaino: Clearly he really liked that person as he agreed to be their executor even though he wasn't a beneficiary and paid for an $18,000 funeral without assurance that he would be reimbursed.

                  Now multiply that by 27 million people.

                • @bargaino:

                  It was $1389.

                  We lost both in-laws last year. We will be blessed if mine last until 2030.

                  Care to send your contribution in full now, or just prefer to send the $2780 now and send the res along later?

                  All four old fashioned and honourable.

                  FTR, mum's requesting white roses covering the coffin.

  • +1

    Many wills say “after funeral expenses have been covered” and then goes on to detail how the assets will be dispersed.

    I certainly would not have paid the credit card bill. I would tell the bank they could try to recover it from the estate. They would probably write it off.

    With the funeral expenses you could see if the beneficiaries will help cover the costs for you.

    I think you have a generous personality but you’ve left yourself financially exposed.

    • Ya know the really funny thing about that?

      People often include plans and preferences for their funerals in their wills.

      In most cases, the will is read after the funeral.

      Rule of thumb, funeral parlour invoices for payment at a later date cos he knows things take time, but ultimately

      Funeral director gets first dibs on the estate despite what the will may say.

      Where financial, estate must pay funeral first.

      • +1

        Where financial, estate must pay funeral first.

        Banks are generally happy to pay the funeral invoice if funds allow. Just have to present the account to them.

        • Banks shouldn't be releasing any funds until probate, should they?

          That sounds shady.

          • +1

            @Muppet Detector:

            Banks shouldn't be releasing any funds until probate, should they?

            They will pay the funeral account. And I'm pretty sure they were paying the utilities bills on my brother-in-law's estate whilst the bills accrued were in his lifetime. Then it stopped and the solicitor now pays them out of the trust account until the estate fully settles.

            • +1

              @sam-1966: I've sadly been executor twice in the past year. Can back you up that Yes banks will pay funeral expenses upon presentation of the invoice and the interim (doctor's) death cert. Also no funeral provider I queried would accept payment after the funeral. Money up front.

    • I certainly would not have paid the credit card bill. I would tell the bank they could try to recover it from the estate. They would probably write it off.

      I think they would write the debt off in a situation like this.

      But either way, once they are notified of the death they are supposed to stop charging interest on the account. This applies to credit cards, not mortgages.

  • +11

    Hi friend,
    I can see why your friend trusted you as his executor, you've done a brilliant job, may God reward you for your effort.
    You did a great act, but you are not required to carry the financial loss if the estate later proves solvent. While you had no obligation to settle your friend's debt legally, you've freed them from their debt. If you paid thinking there was no estate, you retain the right to reclaim once assets are discovered because your intention was necessity, not charity. You look like you've acted in good faith and made reasonable efforts to identify his debts, take reimbursement from the estate and if you want to do more then gift the beneficiary personally.
    Peace

  • +1

    If it was me, I would have told the relatives it's direct cremation for $2,000 unless you pay for it.

  • +1

    Depends were you are.

    Funeral costs are typically paid from the deceased's estate first. If there are insufficient funds, the person who arranged the funeral becomes responsible. Family members are not automatically liable unless they authorised the arrangements.

    It depends on the type of liabilities you are dealing with. If there a security your dead out of luck.

    Note most rich people die without a cent in their estate. However, the family will generally cover the cost.

    The decreased estate is anything they individual owned and could benefit from while they were alive. Joint accounts (depends the type), trust fund and super (under 65) is generally not part of the decreased estate.

  • +4

    Funeral expenses are a testamentary expense with priority over most things; creditors won't have much luck, I'd seek reimbursement.

    • This. I have just been executor for my mothers estate..

  • +4

    Document your expenses in your capacity as executor, and reimburse yourself.
    Distributions are only made after the estate is settled.

  • +7

    Schedule 3 Part 1 of the Probate and Administration Act 1898 (NSW) governs the priority of payments when an estate is insolvent. Funeral, testamentary and administration expenses get priority over all other creditors (this includes reimbursement to executors who incur those costs on behalf of the estate).

    Given the funeral costs exceed the value of the estate, there won't be any funds available to creditors. You should write to the creditors advising the estate is insolvent and there are no funds available to pay the debts, and seek confirmation they have waived the debt.

    As far as paying the credit card debt goes, an executor is generally not liable for the debts of the deceased, including in an insolvent estate. You should contact the bank and request they refund you the amount you have paid on the basis that you were not informed you are not liable for the credit card debt and were pressured by them into paying it. If they refuse, make a complaint to the AFCA (easy to do online).

    Given the estate is insolvent, you should really be seeking the advice of a lawyer to ensure you do everything correctly, even if that appointment is limited to initial advice only.

  • +2

    The executor is usually not responsible for the deceased debts & the funeral costs are usually deducted from the estate. This is my understanding after being involved in 4 separate estates in NSW.

  • +1

    Keep it simple…….what do you think your deceased friend would say to you they'd want you to do?

    I strongly suspect they'd be very grateful for all your hard work and want you to be reimbursed as much as possible for your out of pocket expenses.

    Being an executor is a lot of unthanked and unpaid work, you're not meant to be out of pocket for the funeral expenses as well when a decent portion of funds are there to cover some of it.

  • +1

    You were clearly a loyal friend to the deceased.

    It is a sad indictment of society and pitiful keyboard warriors that your actions have been mocked for being kind and decent.

    It is only right under the circumstances to seek to claim the cost of your expenditure. You spent a lot of money.

    Don't feel any self-doubt because of the nasty comments on your post. These people deserve our pity.

    Good luck with everything moving forward.

  • Of course you need to reimburse your expenses. It sounds like you won't be fully covered anyway. The credit card is 100% not your responsibility. Claim that and some of the funeral expenses so you can get something back. You have up to 3 years to settle an estate so there is little urgency. You need to ensure there are no further debts including possible ato debts before you distribute anything. There may be cgt expenses if you sell the shares but I guess that is unlikely to exceed the income threshold. If the likely income is less than the threshold ($18-19000?) then you won't need to do an estate tax return.

    • You do need to be aware of the benficaries as well. They can challenge excessive expenses and $18k does seem excessive.

      • Too late to shut the lid once everything else is bolted.

      • What would you consider a reasonable cost for a funeral?

        Please itemise these reasonable costs

        I think you'll find 18k is not excessive. It will depend if the funeral arrangements were catering to 300 people or 3 and is the body was buried or not and what customs comes with that.

        • generally in the $5-$15k is reasonable range, the upper end being more extravagant. I suspect just like the banks with the paying credit cards he has been taken for a sucker.

          and if he is catering for a pissup for 300 of the deceased closest friends then that better be in the will or agreed to by the beneficiaries for it to be covered.

          • @gromit: If 15k is reasonable, I don't think 20% above makes it excessive.

            Sure, an OZB approved funeral would never be 15k, but I think that up to 20k is a reasonable cost to factor if we are starting at say, 50 people for a church/wake with basic amenities.

            • @serpserpserp: I definitely think that is excessive for something not approved. Even most funeral insurance companies only go to a max of $15k. $15k is top end and definitely above that it is fair to challenge it.

      • I read about some bloke st a funeral in Melbourne a few weeks back.

        The body was housed in like an office draw. Draws going all the way to the ceiling. Along the entire length of wall.

        Cost was $180,000

        Never seen one myself, but that was the second time I had heard of it. Sounded like huge filing systems.

        This Might Be a Picture.

  • +3

    Don't forget to look into the final tax returns for the deceased. Seeing as they had shares, there is a good chance a date of death return would need to be lodged, and if not then there would need to be an estate return lodged.

    You MAY need to go through probate to finalise that side of the estate. I have found the ATO to be quite inconsistent in how they apply small estates and requiring proof that you are the LPR.

    If you were to dispose of the shares, then the Estate would also need to lodge a tax return for the capital gains on the sale.

    • Oh, yes. Husband is executor on his brother's estate.

      He needs to do a tax return for the year he passed away, and then another one (with a new TFN) for the actual estate.

    • I'm a bit confused about this part of it as my advice on the phone from the ATO is that they would not provide a new TFN without being LPR, but I filled out the form to notify the ATO and it states on the form that it won't assign me as LPR unless I seek probate?

      Does it force me to go through probate which is free for estates under $100k in NSW? I'm not really sure what to do at this point…

      Do I actually need a new TFN, or can I just leave it to do the withholding since it's just doing DRP? There haven't been any claims for franking credits, but I looked online through the SRN number and it shows there is a TFN attached (not sure if I should have done that, but I needed to find out how to calculate the CGT, but it turns out the full history of purchases is not available online and I didn't want to create an account as the person is deceased)… But I notified the ATO that the person is deceased, so shouldn't the TFN just fall off and they will withhold tax from the dividends when doing any future DRP which might occur before I get the paperwork done to sell the shares?

      It's below the tax free threshold anyway… I'm also not sure how to calculate the capital gains since I can't find the full history of the share purchases through that online portal. Would it be acceptable to just use the cost base as $0.01? I might need to go visit the MUFG office to ask about what to do about that…

      • In regards to the advice from the ATO, you need to understand that there are 5 or 6 difference call centers with differing degrees of knowledge.

        Although some ATO correspondence states that low balance estates don't require probate to formalise the LPR, if there was a refund due to franking credits, they may withhold until the LPR is sorted.

        We have had a client that had no assets (everything held jointly with spouse and all assets transferred) and had a $5k refund due to PAYG being refunded. The ATO decided that an LPR was required to finalise the refund for payment (note that this is in QLD).

        You would need an estate TFN for any income that is processed as part of the estate and that can be any dividends paid after date of death and the capital gains tax on disposal of the shares. If the total income is below $18,200 and shares sold within 2 years, then there is no taxable income and the estate would receive the franking credits as a refund.

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