Refusing Credit Cards from October

I've had about 3 or more business I engage with across child care, professional subscriptions and some other bills that seem to pop up quarterly like Strata costs are now saying that I need to add direct debit details ongoing from September as they're no longer offering or providing credit card payment options.

Anyone else seeing more of an uptick now that October is getting closer?

The DEFT one will be my first main hurdle as my strata bills are paid via DEFT and no chance I can direct debit pay some of these bills in one lump sum given the size.

https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/969382

Additionally child care costs will add another layer to the rebate and payment of these services a well.

Any other bill providers or business just flat out refusing Credit card in the lead up to the October changes?

Will there be a uptick of new ways/providers to get around this?

Comments

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  • I don’t get it… wouldn’t the merchants be better off just raising the advertised price of items by a blanket 1-3% ? I lost count of the number of times my MYOB and Adobe subs have increased.

    • TBH that's what I thought would happen. But some businesses can't do that, e.g. DEFT and StrataPay, so they've just stopped accepting creditcards.

  • The only country in the world with CC/DC surcharges. What’s next? Electricity surcharge? Rent surcharge? FFS. Payment processing fees belong to what’s referred to as “cost of doing business”.

    • Cost Of Doing Business Surcharge.

      • Cost of convenience surcharge.

        It’s not convenient if it’s the only option…

  • I personally am unaffected by the change, and is a net positive for me with the surcharge ban.

    • You'll be affected. Some prices will go up.
      Do you pay with credit card? Not any more with some vendors.

  • I feel like I mustve been living under a rock….

    when i was growing up (I'm 40+), we had credit cards, but the price was the price. You never saw signs about extra fees. The most would be "AMEX and Diners Club not accpted". (my understanding is that fees were exhorbitant but the price it eh price so vendors account for fees when setting margin)

    Then I can recall seeing signs for a surcharge on AMEX / Diners.

    Then we got to the X flat fee for card transactions

    Then only percentage fees that were supposedly what the merchant was being charged were added on sometimes

    and then now it sounds llike the sky is falling, but we're back to the place we were in at the beginning except (as I understand it) with tighter regulation on how much the processors can charge as a credit network fee.

    But so much messaging, even from people I know who are older than me are talking like this situation is unprecdented and we're in uncharted territory… but seems llike a near circle. What am I missing?

    • It was indirectly introduced by ACCC, another own goal moment.

      Their intend was to stop certain businesses from charging excessive fees, but inevitably signalling all businesses they should charge a fee as long as it is not excessive.

      More and more businesses saw it as a revenue stream and surcharge became commonplace.

      https://www.accc.gov.au/about-us/news/media-updates/ban-on-e…

      • And the fees dropped, then started creeping up again when companies like Square came to market and offered POS software, stocktake and ordering software, and the cost of transactions all in the one fee.

    • You missed the period when they all decided you had to spend a minimum of $20 to pay by card :)

      • Back in the days EFTPOS machines had to dialup to the bank which incurred a flag fall, the minimum spend was intended to cover that connection fee.

        That is no longer valid as the machines are always connected. Dodgy business continue to use that as an excuse to charge extra fees.

    • yep I remember this too.. exactly that..

      then the airlines were doing surcharges of crazy sums that didn't make sense and then all the sudden everyone was able to charge surcharges and became a mix of a tax grab and way to pass on a cost…

      I feel this is a return to those days soon but they're all panicked over these changes for some silly reason

      • airlines ha…. they are hardly regulated when it comes to payment and ACCC don't care

        500% increase in price for flights during grand final

        that would never happen for a regular flight even if it was booked out everyday

    • if my memory serves me right it was blue sky until late 2006 something (I was working at a bank credit card section) and came this change. IMHO, it is pure bureaucratic bu***t at RBA. To create things for the sake of creating things to validate their fat pay check and justify why they should be there.. same for any subsequent back and forth changes….in the name of responding to market changes.

    • Remember how Amex/ Diners weren't accepted? Well now Master card and Visa are in the same category.

    • Times change. Who knew?

  • It is my understanding that the vast majority of banks have opted to shift the cost to consumers directly via fees and interest. I'm curious to know the anti CC logic post October or are there 'hidden' fees that businesses are still paying (outside of the normal cost of business)?

    • Businesses are still paying a credit card fee, just a smaller one. They've gotten used to being able to recharge all the fees (to the point getting paid in cash is usually far worse for them).

      IMO it's just a silly overreaction, once they realise it's a bigger headache than benefit to limit payment options they'll start building the cost back into their pricing. There'll be piles of late/missed payments in October and they'll stop relying on the consumer to do all the hard work for them.

      • There'll be piles of late/missed payments in October

        Those with predatory late fee surcharges will be laughing all the way to the bank

  • ill pay cash, give me 20% off

    • Will only work if people are avoiding paying tax.

      • Let’s be honest, who isn’t avoiding it

        • Yeah, there are legal and non legal ways though.

  • I'm a little confused. I had a business for 12 years from 2003 and I was charged merchant fees etc from my bank. When it came time to do my quarterly BAS those fees I was charged went into the BAS statement and reduced the amount of tax I owed, so I was getting back the fees I paid by paying less tax. Is this no longer a thing? Are businesses claiming the costs of the mech fees etc on their tax and then getting their customers to also pay for those fees? If so, isn't that double dipping?

    • You're not getting back anything, just paying less tax because you made less money.

      • His lack of understanding of business and tax explains why he had a business back in 2003 and no longer today.

        How can a business owner not understand basic finance, it's a sure way to be out of business.

  • Receiving payment by debit card should be an option for these businesses.
    As far as I know all bank issued debit cards in Oz except Macquarie are dual network - so they can use the EFTPOS network - at a cost of 10c to 30c for just about all transactions.
    Trouble is that 3rd party payment gateway providers don't make it easy.

  • now that the sticker price includes card payments, -> discounts for cash

    • Keep dreaming!

    • Funny thing, this sushi train restaurant used to give a 5% discount for cash, and a 1% surcharge for card payments. Now they’ve removed the card surcharge altogether but also removed the cash discount!

  • You can pay for services like Sniip but with banks reducing points earn it won't be worth it. You can still pay DEFT by BPay so you can drip feed payments from your savings account if that's what you want to do.

    • Yeah I'm confused on what the OP's issue is in terms of being forced to pay everything in a lump sum. As you say, BPay is certainly still an option and payments can be broken up via that method.

      • Cashflow I suppose is the best term for it - bills pop up and expenses are ongoing and all over the place with kids activities and now most services moving to this finding ways to manage the change of some places refusing credit cards is just an impact on the day to day.

        Simply put, pay goes in to account, I pay off credit card, remainder goes to offset account - rise repeat month to month.

        now would have to keep more out of the offset to cover some bills or payments that won't accept credit cards.

        in my situation, i'd pay the surcharge for the convenience but net the points gain too, now seems that will be gone and the only winner here will be the banks.

      • No doubt the want points or to delay payment.

        Rich person is missing the old regime.

    • Oh, how do I use BPay to 'drip feed' payments if they expect payment all at once?

  • I pay my strata fees with Bpay. I dont pay the full amount at once but do a number of transfers. No issues. However I am on the EC of my strata and we decided to remove credit cards as a payment option so we do not incur fees.

    • even if you did have cc they now will be passed through body corp from the cc company and then added as part of your admin fund

      • no, it's just not available. The payment services I'm familiar with: StrataPay and DEFT, have both announced credit card payments won't be accepted from 01 Oct.

        • Yeh

          If you did have I meant

  • Ask for BPay option, you can use your credit card to pay BPay bills

  • Seriously screw the banks here… Why on earth in this world they don't need to absorb any cost passed on to them.. Aus banks probably the only ones in the world who doesn't absorb cost of cash rate. They did warn ridiculous amount of money in the tens of billions every year too… Ridiculous!

  • cash is king, for now

    • Nah mate. There are only certain shops that have to accept cash. Some places have dumped accepting cash because it is too difficult and expensive to handle. The only real reason I can see for accepting cash is if you don’t want the tax man to know about it.

      • Cash is a legal tender money and all retail should accept cash

        • cash is disgusting and no retail worker should have to handle it.

          • @SlickMick: I disagree, retail workers are disgusting and they should all have to handle my cash.

      • never been refused paying cash where I live

        • Certainly I know stores that no longer take cash.

          • @try2bhelpful: like who?

            • @[Deactivated]: Some Nandos, some Kripy Kreme, some McDonalds, some Industry Beans stores will take card won’t take cash. Also try and pay cash for any online store. They will take your debit card but you can’t rock up with cash. Especially for online stores the credit cards provide security the debit cards don’t. Much easier to back-out a credit card transaction than a debit card one.

              • @try2bhelpful: lol who eats that sh;t
                no nando, kripy cream here ;)

                • @[Deactivated]: Me neither but you did ask for examples so I gave you big companies. Some specialty bakery places also do and I do frequent them.

                  • @try2bhelpful: you just like a argument and have a answer for everything, must be fun to live with lol

                    • @[Deactivated]: I feel like you just don’t want anyone refuting that cash is king.

                      I personally prefer to have $100-200 in the wallet just in case (eftpos terminal fails), or places that have excessive surcharges for card payments.

                      I too have been to places that don’t accept cash. For example, Vapiano pasta/pizza stores in QLD don’t take cash anymore.

                      You asked, they replied.

                      • @cowiie: and you butted in, couldn't help yourself eh maybe change your picture to a goat lol

                        • @[Deactivated]: Greatest Of All Time might be over stating it.

                          • @try2bhelpful: please don't reply to me ever again, try to contain yourself

                    • @[Deactivated]: You asked for an examples so I gave you some. If you didn’t want an answer then why ask?

                      Actually I am a hoot to live with according to the guy I’ve been shacked up with for 46 years.

      • casino

    • and forego buyer protections that come with credit cards? and risk unauthorised transacations where the onus and legwork is on me to have them reversed? thanks but no. if you won't accept my credit card payment, you don't need me as a customer.

      • Buyer protection for strata or childcare? You’re absolutely nuts.

        • DEFT isnt just for strata and childcare. My most recent DEFT payments were for our business's insurance, for example. What protections exist for a duplicate direct debit? Last duplicate credit card transaction, I flagged it in my app, and had funds almost immediately. Last time a direct debit was run in error, we had to wait for them to do their next payment run to be credited, but they refused to credit us the bank fees their errant debit caused.

          • @b0son:

            What protections exist for a duplicate direct debit?

            The fact that direct debits are legal contractual agreements? If they have breached it, you have legal avenues.

            Last time a direct debit was run in error, we had to wait for them

            You were lied to. You can ask your bank to reverse it.

            You can read more in Australia's favourite bank: https://www.commbank.com.au/support.digital-banking.stop-or-…

            And regarding your earlier comment

            and risk unauthorised transacations where the onus and legwork is on me to have them reversed

            How's this different for a credit card? You still have to file a dispute.

      • I use Sniip for strata as well. I don't need insurance or protection for paying strata. This is the only push back I'm seeing, which makes sense, because card fees should not be the responsible of all owners.

      • Direct Debit is actually easier to reverse than credit card transactions.

        That's why most businesses make you separately agree to direct debit t&cs.

    • Yes I'd much rather be paying the hidden fees and having surprise random %'s added to my bill that don't correspond to the actual cost. Or better yet, when those same fees are added to my debit card that doesn't even have those fees.

      What nonsense that this is a bad change. You haven't used a credit card in the last year if you think these are bad changes.

      Happy to pay extra so long as it's actually upfront and I know what the final cost is. Hate the BS of its $20 + 2% CC fee type nonsense.

      • Oh no, your $6 coffee was $6.06 at the point of payment, the horror of this surprise fee.

      • Yes I'd much rather be paying the hidden fees and having surprise random %'s added to my bill

        Every place I'd been to had the cost disclosed, it is the current law…

        Also, you had the option to pay with cash or debit card and avoid the fee…

        Now, you will be paying more regardless…

        • You aren't paying more regardless because the credit card fees are less.

          Current the amount is disclosed but how that amount was calculated is not. I suspect some garnishing is going on.

          There are inherent costs associated with using cash that are currently covered by people not using cash. There should be a usage fee to cover that. The technology to use debit cards is basically the same as credit cards, so that should be charged as well. You do understand the user pays principle, don’t you?

      • Forcing businesses to be upfront about the costs would have been the right thing, not enforcing them into absorbing a genuine cost.

        I am not sure where you had to pay $20 + 2% but in real world, those costs were mostly between 1 to 2% of the total transaction.

        What people fail to understand is that the businesses have costs that they need to pass on to the consumer to stay functional and profitable, so if you force them to remove the cost without providing a solution, the businesses will find another way to avoid or pass it on.

        And if you look around the world hard enough, you will find that countries have found solutions that work for everyone.. India did this almost 7 years ago where they built their own transactions system called UPI.. owned by the government and for it's people.. Government pays running costs of the platform from taxes collected and no one pays any other charges for using the platform.

        Albo has no vision and he is driving this country into a ditch.. And just to be clear, I am not a business owner but I am worried that Albo and his policies will one day drive most of these businesses into liquidation and a lot of us lose out on our jobs.

        • Forcing businesses to be upfront about the costs would have been the right thing, not enforcing them into absorbing a genuine cost.

          I agree with you but then how do you fix the weekend surcharges that you only know after you have your food and walked over to the counter to pay?

          Forcing businesses to remove hidden fees and be more transparent can be done in anyway but unfortunately there isn't a straight forward way and larger enterprises are still abusing this like Uber with their service fees.

          I'm not defending either side but just pointing out that its harder to enforce.

          • @meong: It's just not a strong argument. If you don't like creditcard fees, don't use them.

            But for a government to step in and forcibly remove the fees so that you can use them for free is backfiring already.
            You won't be able to use a creditcard in many places now because they simply won't accept them.
            So you don't win, but those of us willing to pay a creditcard surcharge for the utility it provided also lose.

            Everybody loses when you have a moron making the rules.

            • @SlickMick:

              But for a government to step in and forcibly remove the fees so that you can use them for free is backfiring already.

              Actually the government is not forcibly removing surcharge fees, it is the card schemes. The RBA had put in place a rule prohibiting the card schemes from activating a "no surcharge" rule, hence allowing businesses to charge it. The RBA is removing that prohibition, and now it is the card schemes rushing to implement the "no surcharge" rule on merchants.

              • @leigh8904: Good job, you got me on a technicality. The government only publicly initiated pressure for reform, announced funding for the ACCC to pursue excessive surcharging, and said it was prepared to ban debit-card surcharges subject to the RBA’s review.
                So yeah it was all the RBA, and Albanese had nothing to with it./s

            • @SlickMick: Government was not making fees illegal, they were just making sure price is transparent.

              Some countries like US for example, their prices are not always what you pay because the tax component is added in the end.

              In Australia, GST is always needed to be included in the quote or displayed price for the sake of price transparency.

              So, in reality, they're allowing fees but sellers need to incorporate that into the price. Similar to let's say what Afterpay has been saying to any of their merchants although in turn it increases the prices overall on their merchants' website regardless whether Afterpay is used or not.

              Government is still allowing discounts if you pay cash. So the new regulation is basically telling sellers to always display their maximum price that customers should pay.

              That's why i think eventually they will crack down on weekend charges and eventually service charges too

              • @meong:

                Government was not making fees illegal

                Incorrect. Merchants will no longer be able to impose a separate surcharge on payments using mastercard/ vis credit/debt cards or etfpos.

                they were just making sure price is transparent

                This is the incompetence everyone is complaining about. They shove in an ill-informed policy with no vision of the consequences, and no concept that they've done more damage than good.
                As simply as they said GST must be included, they could have said any surcharges or fees need to be included.

                So, in reality, they're allowing fees but sellers need to incorporate that into the price

                Yeah sellers can calculate thier cost however they like. Are you really using that as an argument than surcharges aren't banned?

                So the new regulation is basically telling sellers to always display their maximum price that customers should pay.

                No, that's probably what they should have done. Instead, they've disrupted the entire payment industry. There will be no winners, though those who want do defend the morons making the rules don't admit that it won't actually benefit them.

                • @SlickMick: Whats the actual damage here?

                  • @meong: well, before this even starts, I've had 3 vendors say they will no longer accept card payments and my credit card annual fee has gone up

                    • @SlickMick: Credit card annual fee increase is not a legitimate damage. There are many other cards available that are without annual fee but no rewards.

                      There is really any more incentive to spend more money as banks are unable to make more money from you spending your money.

                      So, in reality we should go back to the default which means that there should be no fee to use our money and there should be no incentive for us to spend our money just like how cash transactions work but more convenient cause they're digital.

                      • @meong: Mate, what isn't damage to you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Clearly we are of differing opinions here, and repeating our opinions isn't going to get us anywhere.

        • Everyone was against the surcharge when it came in and most smart countries have done away with it. Businesses can just increase prices to cover it, that’s how you ensure it’s in the price upfront and everyone knows what the full price is. We include GST in the price, right?

          Businesses can’t include a “cash price charge” despite that reconciling cash and taking it to the bank is a real cost to the business. It will be better for everyone since it’ll be a level playing field. Businesses will be able to price knowing their competitors can’t undercut them by hiding a fee.

          India’s parliament just pushed forward legislation to charge merchant fees on UPI too. The banks are wearing the cost of the infrastructure and it’s expensive.

          • @freefall101:

            Businesses can’t include a “cash price charge” despite that reconciling cash and taking it to the bank is a real cost to the business.

            Who says?

            • @YesPleaseThankYou: Huh, you're right, I assumed they couldn't. Seems like they can (and still will be allowed to after the ban on cards too)

          • @freefall101:

            The banks bank's customers are wearing the cost of the infrastructure and it’s expensive

            FTFY

          • @freefall101:

            Businesses can just increase prices to cover it,

            The increase is nearly always more than the fee… eg. $6 coffee with a 20c fee, is now a $6.50 coffee… #Alboinflation

            • @jv: Absolutely this.. We have just been slugged with a 6% fee increase from 1st October for a child activity where the surcharge was 2%.. reason, increased operating costs due policy changes.. surely no one saw this coming?

        • Forcing businesses to be upfront about the costs would have been the right thing, not enforcing them into absorbing a genuine cost.

          How can businesses that will take Uber Eats orders or accept Afterpay not be able to eat a 1% fee?

          Accepting credit cards is a marketing, obviously business are totally free to not accept this.

          Businesses absorb plenty of costs. I don't get a discount if I use less of the staff's time (labour), spend less time in their premise (rent), did not go through their PPC channels (leads) so why is credit card fee so special?

          • @nubix: Every restaurant that I have compared in restaurant prices vs uber prices, had at least a 20% markup on uber advertised prices.. so, no businesses dont absorb those costs, they pass it on to the consumber by inflating the prices based on the platform and people pay it for the convenience of it.

            CC surcharges are no different, you can always use cash to pay for it but it is not as convenient as just tapping a card.

        • There is PYNG app which is transaction fees free just like UPI in India

    • Aren't banks already passing on the costs by reducing benefits and/or increasing fees?

      And cafes/restaurants increasing prices, so the final price you pay (withouth fees) is now more… Even if you pay in cash…

      • Except the fee costs have bern reduced.

        • How so? Businesses build the fee into their prices, we all potentially pay more, but sure I am fine with that, but then the double whammy is now the credit card offering is more expensive and less useful. So pay more for the card and at the checkout. All so karens on social media didn't have to worry about big bad surcharges costing them bugger all per year.

          • @Nebargains: You don’t have the additional fee costs associated with using a credit card. Whatever dude on the rest of your comment.

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