$4/Litre Diesel? Diesel Rationing?

source:
https://fxtwitter.com/HormuzLetter/status/210429067586903247…

BREAKING: Australia could face diesel rationing within weeks and prices above A$4 a litre, nearly 40% above today, if the US goes ahead with its export ban, the most worrying development in global fuel markets since the war began, per MST Marquee's head of energy research.

Australia is the world's largest importer of diesel in absolute terms, accounting for 1% of global fuel demand but 10% of the world's seaborne diesel imports, and it runs an economy weighted to agriculture and mining. A ban could force the government to stage 3 and 4 of its National Fuel Security Plan, which covers demand reduction and directed allocation of supply.

The US exports about 1.3 million barrels of diesel a day, a quarter of its refining output, and has been covering the gap left as Russia and China stopped exporting refined fuels.

The UK is now preparing rationing plans of its own, with 42 days of diesel left as of July 2026.

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  • It's the big transition.

    Big players like BYD will likely be releasing long-range electric SUVs and Utes in the near future.

    Battery technology is also advancing rapidly, and we’re likely to see new batteries with substantially better range, charging speeds and efficiency over the next few years.

    Everyone will suddenly realize how ridiculous it is to be over-reliant on archaic combustion technology and fossil fuels, where the typical Australian vehicle (an enormous diesel-powered Ford Ranger) needs to be filled up every few days with $400 worth of cancer-causing liquid shipped all the way from Iran.

    Of course, a few clueless bogans will hang on, claiming that EVs are unsafe, polluting, and a "left-wing scam", just like climate change is "left-wing scam".

    Within 10 years, Australian streets will be much quieter than they are today, and you'll be able to walk along a busy street without inhaling a lungful of nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, volatile organic compounds, ultrafine combustion particles, soot/black carbon, and various partially burned hydrocarbons.

    People living on busy streets, corners and near intersections will no longer have to endure the constant, deafening roar of ICE vehicles accelerating from a standstill or up a steep hill.

    • Your reply is very blinkered and metro-centric.

      Trucks run on diesel. Pretty much everything gets moved around in trucks.

      Agriculture uses massive amounts of diesel. The trucks and ag machinery simply don't exist in any other form than diesel powered.

      But you worry about your world, while food isn't grown and goods aren't moved to your local supermarket

      • Trucks run on diesel. Pretty much everything gets moved around in trucks.
        Agriculture uses massive amounts of diesel. The trucks and ag machinery simply don't exist in any other form than diesel powered.

        Like I said, it's the big transition: "Everyone will suddenly realize how ridiculous it is to be over-reliant on archaic combustion technology and fossil fuels."

        Ultimately, batteries will power a lot of those vehicles and machinery, because in the 21st century it is not efficient to dig up fossil fuels in the Middle-East, refine them, ship them through a narrow, disputed strait, then across a massive ocean, then on a train/truck for 500km to a little farm in outback QLD to power a motor.

        Things are changing, but feel fee to be stuck in the past.

        Just for example: Linfox is currently deploying 26 battery-electric Volvo prime movers in Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide, doing roughly 500 km per day on existing freight duties.

        The transition will initially be slow, but will rapidly gain momentum, due to the increased price of diesel and rapidly evolving battery technology.

        For reference, I live on acreage in a semi-rural area. I cut the grass, weeds, and plants/trees on my large block with 100% battery-powered lawnmowers and brush cutters/line trimmers/hedge trimmers/chainsaws. The number of EVs in my area has increased massively in the last few years. You can live 20-50km from the inner-city and an EV still makes sense with current battery technology.

        • On a similar topic.

          CATL Tectrans II

          https://eletric-vehicles.com/catl/catl-unveils-heavy-truck-b…

          Or in 2 min video form. Dr Ben Miles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXZEsntjwCo

        • Get your thoughts in order. AI will end humanity before your wet dream emerges

        • Ultimately, batteries will power a lot of those vehicles and machinery, because in the 21st century it is not efficient to dig up fossil fuels in the Middle-East, refine them, ship them through a narrow, disputed strait, then across a massive ocean, then on a train/truck for 500km to a little farm in outback QLD to power a motor.

          Apparently it is! Japan can purchase our coal, we can dig it out of the ground, transport it to a port, load it, ship half way around the world, unload it, send it to a coal fired station that ends up producing cheaper electricity than what Australians pay per kW. The same is probably true for China.

          "Everyone will suddenly realize how ridiculous it is to be over-reliant on archaic combustion technology and fossil fuels."

          Its ridiculous and laughable to think thats going to happen anytime soon or into the near future. Until there is a breakthrough in energy density and charging times, its an industrial fantasy. Heavy industry will be running on fossil fuels for many many years.
          Australias overall energy mix is predominately coal/gas/oil, comprising of more than 70%.

          But the EV fanboys purchase an EV and a whipper snipper and somehow think it scales up. It does not. That is beyond a fantasy. The impact of EV's is a drop in the ocean. Presently EV's consume less the 1/100% (yes, less than one hundredth of a percent) of Australia's energy mix.

          Just for example: Linfox is currently deploying 26 battery-electric Volvo prime movers in Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide, doing roughly 500 km per day on existing freight duties.

          Keep an eye out on facebook market place for Volvo prime movers…

          • @bigticket:

            Japan can purchase our coal, we can dig it out of the ground, transport it to a port, load it, ship half way around the world…

            Japan is hardly the other side of the world.

            send it to a coal fired station that ends up producing cheaper electricity than what Australians pay per kW

            Their electricity rates look pretty similar to ours, from a quick look. And that's more to do with the incredibly cheap gas we export in giant quantities without proper royalties or a gas reservation that protects our domestic market.

            • @klaw81:

              Their electricity rates look pretty similar to ours

              Yeah, they're similar, but you're forgetting during the conversion, the yen has tanked recently, meaning it was cheaper not too long ago. Nevertheless, the point is Japan can buy our coal and with the added costs of land/sea transport and all the addition intermediary steps like loading/unloading and still produce electricity comparable to Australia from our 'home grown' product.

              The gas argument does not hold, electricity costs in Japan from either coal or gas would be similar. It adds further to my point. when even factoring considerable transport costs other countries are producing electricity at a comparable cost to Australia using our gas.

          • @bigticket: Even the big miners have started to transition as they see the writing on the wall for diesel. FYI japan electricity prices are NOT cheaper

          • @bigticket: all emerging technologies get over exaggerated in the short term, but underestimated in the long term. ultimately the speed of adoption depends on how quickly the costs come down and economies of scale ramp up.

      • it's meant to be metro-centric. most people live and activities happen in metropolitan areas.

        nobody is suggesting that the rest of the country doesn't matter, but when we're talking about stuff that clearly applies to metro areas, it would be tiring to add "of course, things are different in regional areas and the ag industry" every time you make a general comment.

        • I guess it's ok because when the rationing starts, that will also be metro-centric :)

          • @oscargamer: well… yeah… obviously? of course if rationing were to happen it would be directed to places with the most capacity to deal with that.

            why do you have such a bee in your bonnet about this?

            • @jrowls: dunno, having spent years in the city, and now more years in the country, I realise that city folk are incredibly selfish

              • @oscargamer: I’ve spent plenty of time in both. Selfish people are everywhere, there are just more of them in the city.

      • Trucks run on diesel. Pretty much everything gets moved around in trucks.

        Sure, but short- and medium-haul trucking is an obvious place where electric can not only reduce significantly diesel consumption, but also significantly lower transport costs. We're already seeing rapid adoption in the trucking industry in Australia.

        Long-haul trucking currently isn't viable to switch to electric, but that will slowly improve over time as technology and infrastructure improves. Even a hybrid long-haul truck has massive potential to improve efficiency and the technology already exists for other large vehicles like buses.

        Agriculture uses massive amounts of diesel. The trucks and ag machinery simply don't exist in any other form than diesel powered.

        Agriculture accounts for less than 10% of Australian diesel usage. Utes and light commercial vehicles use more than double that.

        Agricultural machinery will probably be the last thing to convert to electric, but there's a lot of stationary diesel engines in agriculture (irrigation pumps etc) that can easily convert to electric and the rising cost of diesel will only accelerate that change.

        The elephant in the room is mining, which represents about 25% of our diesel consumption. We can already see a lot of mines moving from diesel generators to on-site renewables + storage, and some of the more forward-thinking mines are also switching to electric haul trucks and digging equipment.

        TLDR: the technology exists to convert at least 40% of our diesel usage to electric and the transition already makes financial sense in most cases. If the price of diesel rises, the need to transition just becomes stronger.

      • exactly

    • Of course, a few clueless bogans will hang on

      In a decade, skyrocketing diesel and petrol prices and relentless suburban gentrification will push bogans deep into the outback, where they will live in perfect, off-grid harmony with sovereign citizens and anti vaxxers. Together, they will build sprawling, tin roofed shantytowns and establish their own vax-free healthcare system, operating on the strict medical principle that alcohol cures everything. Pooling their cash, they will construct towering, refinery style diesel storage tanks that are conveniently co-located with the town's communal distillery.

      • I’ve been through very remote Australia recently. Pretty sure I saw one of these guys. Guy in a 20YO Hilux wearing shorts with the Australian flag that said ‘fit in or f..k off’. Charming fellow

        • Eureka flag decal on the bonut, Such Is Life and Ned Kelly stickers on the back window.

          • @payton:

            bonut

            lmao this spelling is doing me dirty

        • Uncle Ian's nephew?

      • Shiny and Chrome!

    • You actually answer the reason why some of society are yet to upgrade to EVs, because they are betting on the technology moving fast like it has and being able to drive 1000kms on one charge so are happy with their near new petrol car for now. It doesn’t automatically make them all climate hating bogans.

      • they are betting on the technology moving fast like it has and being able to drive 1000kms on one charge

        I strongly doubt there will be many BEVs that will have a true 1000km highway range. It simply isn't necessary for any but a tiny minority of buyers, and the additional weight, loss of efficiency and the extra cost associated with such a battery would make it unattractive for most people.

        It's pretty hard to see applications for vehicles with a real world range more than 500-600km. Perhaps vehicles designed for heavy towing?

        so are happy with their near new petrol car for now

        That's fair enough - in most cases, it doesn't make financial sense to get rid of their current ICE car to get a BEV.

        But once the current car is aging out, or an upgrade is needed for other reasons, it would be silly not to at least consider PHEV or BEV options.

        • Unless you drive less than 5,000km/year or plan to sell the car within 3 years, you'd be a fool to buy a new petrol only car these days. That's why EV cars are the most popular car in the entire new car market. EV drivers couldn't careless about this petrol rationing or petrol price hikes as they simply fill up fore free at home on sunlight which doesn't change it's price tag of $0.00/kWh.

        • They won’t need it when they can charge them in 5min, which might happen , the technology is moving so rapidly. There will always be a use case and I think towing is a good example like you have said

          • @Onemoredeal: BYD are already up to 10-70% in 5 min. That's about 350km of range.

            10-97% in 9 min. Over 500km.

            (Obvoiusly that requires the flash charging network to roll out)

          • @Onemoredeal: I bought this up and got negged into oblivion - Yes, they CAN charge in 5 minutes - but nowhere in Australia is there charging infrastructure to allow 5-minute charging and there won't be for a long time.

            • @arkie0: I’m not an EV expert as one doesn’t make sense for me right this moment but will one day. Re the 5min charging, would this destroy your battery if you used it a lot ? A lot of people live in apartments so free solar overnight charging isn’t an option yet

              • @Onemoredeal: I asked the same thing about fast charging battery life, on this forum there's too many Chinese EV fan boys for a constructive answer

                Short answer - if you listen to BYD marketing, no it doesn't. If you don't trust BYD numbers, wait for real life tests in Australia but this won't be for a while because we don't have charging infra and even if we do, most if not all EV users trickle charge anyway.

            • @arkie0: Without seeing the other comment i cant say why you were negged but based on this comment it could just be for being incorrect.

              but nowhere in Australia is there charging infrastructure to allow 5-minute charging and there won't be for a long time.

              BYD are expected to have the flash chargers available here from next month.

              Are there going to be thousands of them immediately? Obvoiusly not. It is starting though, not it some far distant future.

              • @Duff5000: Yeah at Denza show rooms - but who would drive to one just to access fast charging, we'll have to wait and see about a wider roll out

        • Yes but most cars are overkill for what most people use them for. There will be a range that most will be comfortable with, and thats when more of the outliers will decide to switch.

    • Of course, a few clueless bogans will hang on

      No electric ute will fulfill my work needs for a long time, I love electric vehicles but my work in the rural space with a lack of infrastructure and (as yet) unproven off road capabilities of these electric utes means they are useless for me and thousands of other rural workers. We don't all live in cities with charging infrastructure everywhere and short day trips, I regularly do over 2000km a week in remote and rough country with little access to charging.

      • Sure, but you're in a tiny minority.

        • That tiny minority are the ones that put food on our plates.

          • @Calmago:

            That tiny minority are the ones that put food on our plates.

            Sorry, this is just jingoistic BS.

            I grew up on a farm. Over half my extended family are farmers. I've spent a fair portion of my lifetime on farms, and I know the conditions in which they operate. My family don't ever drive 2000km in a week, not even when they go on holiday. They drive 45 minutes to town once or twice a week, and their work utes do less than 100km each day on average, maybe 400km on a really rare occasion.

            Yes, there are some farms that are super remote, and EVs wouldn't be viable there. And there are other people who also live and work in those areas. And that's fine - that's a tiny number of people, and if EV's don't suit them, that's totally okay.

            The vast majority of farmers live less than 100km from a regional city, and those farms are where most of our food is grown. They could easily be driving EVs (or at least PHEVs) and it wouldn't be a problem at all.

            No go back to the original statement and put the previous comments in context:

            Of course, a few clueless bogans will hang on, claiming that EVs are unsafe, polluting, and a "left-wing scam"

            That's not a shot at farmers and tradies who have a genuine need for a diesel ute that can tow heavy machinery, and for whom an EV doesn't have sufficient range. That's about wilfully ignorant and narrow-minded idiots who swallow and then repeat the misinformation they get from Murdoch's propaganda machine.

    • As much as I agree with this about passenger vehicles use of diesel (which includes Ute and 4WDs) the bigger issue is changing diesel use in mining, farming and logistics. That is very difficult and expensive to change as the options are not great (as far as I know) and requires significant upfront capital

      • Sure. But also, the more diesel is removed from situations where their are ready made alternatives the more will be available for situations where there isn't.

        If fossil fuel diesel stays stupidly expensive biodiesel and renewable diesel becomes economical.

        • If fossil fuel diesel stays stupidly expensive biodiesel and renewable diesel becomes economical.

          Biodiesel currently costs around $5/L to produce in Australia. If they can increase production to get some economies of scale, maybe that figure could come down to $4/L.

          But how much of the Australian economy can tolerate diesel at that price for an extended period, and how much of our imported supply could we replace? I doubt we could produce any more than 10% of our current consumption, even with a major effort, within 5 years.

          Electrification is clearly the correct solution for most applications. Not only can we scale up production with relative ease, but it can be produced close to the point of consumption in many cases, and it brings energy input costs way down.

    • Big players like BYD will likely be releasing long-range electric SUVs and Utes in the near future.

      How is this going to help farmers put diesel in their tractors???

      • Well, in the shorter term, reduced demand for diesel could help bring diesel prices down.

        In the longer term, advances in battery technology will inevitably flow through to other types of vehicles.

        • Reduced domestic demand for diesel won’t do jack. About 30% of diesel by volume is sold to retail stores. Even if 100% of that was private passenger vehicles, eliminating that usage won’t put a dent in the price of diesel because we are exposed to the global market.

        • reduced demand for diesel could help bring diesel prices down.

          Reduced demand???

          Passenger cars on diesel are < 10 % and many of these are used for towing where there is very few EV options.

          EVs are not replacing diesel…

          • @jv:

            Passenger cars on diesel are < 10 % and many of these are used for towing

            About 20% of Australia's passenger vehicles and light commercial vehicles are diesel-powered.

            An enormous number of diesel-engined passenger vehicles are urban assault vehicles used for nothing more than carting kids and shopping centre trips, and are purchased not for their off-road or towing capabilities, but for perceived safety and/or prestige. It only takes driving past your local private school at drop-off time to witness the parade of Hausfrauenpanzer first-hand.

            Even among "commercial vehicles" like the Ranger and Hilux, plenty of them are used for "lifestyle" family duties rather than tradie's work vehicles, thanks to the generous tax incentives on offer.

            • @klaw81:

              About 20% of Australia's passenger vehicles and light commercial vehicles are diesel-powered.

              Nope, 9% and many of those can't be swiched to EVs because they can't tow 3 tonnes like diesel can to tow a caravan.

              • @jv: The GWM Cannon Alpha tows 3.5t with a plug in hybrid diesel.
                So you can burn the diesel to tow the caravan twice a year and electric the rest.
                No need to be defeatist!

                • @mskeggs: Small clarification. Canon Alpha, Canon hi4t and BYD Shark are all petrol PHEV's.

                  Upcoming Stockman is coming out as a petrol or diesel PHEV.

                  All can tow a caravan. (i think the standard Shark is lower towing capacity, Shark performance has 3.5t)

                • @mskeggs:

                  The GWM Cannon Alpha tows 3.5t with a plug in hybrid diesel.

                  Not really much use though when towing…

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luEbthdR5x4

                  • @jv: A big help all the other time tho.

                    • @mskeggs:

                      A big help all the other time tho.

                      True, but these buyers buy it specifically to have the ability to tow…

                      They will not be the typical consumer switching to EV.

                  • @jv: That did not show it cant tow. It did show you need to be careful with your weights when towing 3.5t. That applies to all utes. Most people aren't towing 3.5t

                    It also isn't the only PHEV ute. The Canon hi4t has about 150kg extra payload.

              • @jv: The Australian government report on this topic says otherwise.

                https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/BITRE…

                • @klaw81: My stats are from here.

                  https://www.dcceew.gov.au/

                  • @jv: I can't see that figure on the front page. Got an actual link?

                    For your reference, the figures for diesel powered vehicles in my linked document are on page 9.

                    There's no way 9% is correct. A quick glance around the shopping centre carpark shows that way more than 1 in 10 vehicles are diesel powered.

                    many of those can't be swiched to EVs because they can't tow 3 tonnes like diesel can to tow a caravan.

                    Towing a giant caravan around the country is a niche recreational hobby that is unlikely to remain popular in an environment where diesel prices remain high. Lots of grey nomads were halting their trips when diesel cost $2/L - how many could afford it at $4/L?

                    The caravan industry is about to hit a massive downturn. A few companies have already collapsed.

                    • @klaw81:

                      A few companies have already collapsed

                      Not due to diesel costs.

                    • @klaw81:

                      Towing a giant caravan around the country is a niche recreational hobby

                      There are over 800,000 caravans registered in Australia.

                      • @jv: And most of them are used once every few years.

                      • @jv: An awful lot of these are going to be parked at home before long. When towing your caravan costs $80/100km, how many people can afford to go on the Big Lap?

                        Hey, at least they can be used as affordable housing.

                        • @klaw81:

                          An awful lot of these are going to be parked at home before long.

                          Most are parked at caravan parks or national parks.

                    • @klaw81:

                      A few companies have already collapsed.

                      Because there are too many….

                      https://www.gorv.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/caravan-i…

                    • @klaw81: 9% is obviously correct because he’s talking about diesel consumption. A passenger vehicle refills once a week. Commercial and industrial vehicles are chugging through a buttload of diesel daily. Only 30% of diesel goes to servos and then most of that is used by commercial vehicles like delivery trucks and utes etc.

                      • @BigBook: These figures are a little out of date now, but 2020 figures from the ABS say:

                        Diesel powered light commercial vehicles (ie utes, vans and similar under 3.5t) used an estimated 5000 megalitres of diesel for the year. Diesel powered passenger vehicles used about 3600 megalitres for the same period.

                        That 9% figure continues to look pretty damn shakey.

                        https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/tourism-and-trans…

                        • @klaw81: The total sales volume of diesel in 2020 was 29,351.1 ML per enegy.gov.au’s Australian Petroleum Statistics (APS) publication. If your figure is accurate it puts passenger vehicles as 12% for 2020. That fits in well with the 9% for 2022-23 period that JVs data gives and the APS giving retail outlets as selling only 25-32% of diesel by volume. It sounds about right that light rigids are buying 1/2 - 2/3 of the fuel being sold by retail servos.

            • @JIMB0: Do you have a link? because that link is about 'testing' locomotives.

              • @jv: I CBF finding one. There's plenty of electric locomotives that get their power from overhead wires which have been operating for many decades.

                • @JIMB0:

                  There's plenty of electric locomotives that get their power from overhead wires

                  So maybe we can get 4WD utes to use overhead wires???

      • diesel while currently critical to farming only makes up a relatively small part of the diesel consumption in this country, so reduced use elsewhere helps supply the current legacy farm equipment. Electric tractors are actually starting to become available from the likes of John deere and others already too.

        • farming only makes up a relatively small part of the diesel consumption in this country

          You need to include the distribution of the produce too… Not just what is used on farms…

          Also, diesel is about 85% of energy used on a farm, so if the price doubles, the energy cost almost doubles… Then there is also the increase in transportation, so food prices skyrocket…

          • @jv: All the more reason to push forward faster with the transition away from diesel.

            • @gromit: Not an option yet for farming machinery…

              • @jv: Nit yet but it is coming over the next couple of years as is ev trucking

              • @jv: It is an option for a lot of farm equiment. Gotta start somewhere, so choose what you can get now and then add extras later.

                • @Euphemistic:

                  It is an option for a lot of farm equiment.

                  Not really…

                  • @jv: Maybe not the specialised stuff, but basic tractors, trucks, vans, side by sides and other vehicles. Electric pumps, battery storage instead of generators. Even small loaders and excavators are available with larger euipment getting made every day.

                    Start electrifying now. Get to the specialist stuff when its more common.

                    Plenty of farmers are realising that even having a road going EV like a model 3 can pay off using it to run into town for groceries and dr appointments but it sits home during most days collecting free fuel from solar panels. Save the diesel ute for when its really needed as a ute.

                    • @Euphemistic:

                      Electric pumps, battery storage instead of generators.

                      That won't make a dent in their reliance on diesel… Nearly all of it is for heavy machinery and batteries are far from being an option at present…

                      • @jv: So its pointless to save any diesel? You need to start somewhere, but of course spending up big on smaller items when a large machine will be available soon might mean it takes longer to get enough capital for that large machine.

                        There are already example farms using 100% electric equipment. A well known one is a cherry farm in NZ.

                        Saying you cant do it today is just defeatist.

                        • @Euphemistic:

                          So its pointless to save any diesel?

                          It will make very little difference to primary production at present… Maybe in 5-10 years there might be some viable options to change.

                          • @jv: "Very little difference" at $4 /l will add up quickly.

                          • @jv: You can rely on farmers to find unconventional solutions when their bottom line is under threat. It will only take a couple of years of high diesel prices and/or diesel scarcity to find alternatives that work.

    • I think I have seen this movie somewhere.. Max.. something.. I think he is mad or something.

    • Personal transportation running on diesel is such a minor issue in the big picture. Can BYD fix the escalating logistics costs for groceries? BYD isn’t god but I can understand why people might think it is here with the endless glazing of BYD.

      • Personal transportation running on diesel is such a minor issue in the big picture

        In a global sense, that's kind of true. But it's a big deal for the people spending money on filling up the tanks of their diesel-powered vehicles.

        If you extend "personal transport" to include light commercial vehicles (which are almost inseparable these days) it's a much larger chunk of the diesel we consume as a nation, and a much larger chunk of our emissions/pollution.

        Can BYD fix the escalating logistics costs for groceries?

        Absolutely.

        BYD make medium and heavy BEV trucks - they're not currently sold here. BEV trucks represent a major reduction in energy and maintenance costs compared to diesel trucks - this has clear potential to lower the cost of grocery logistics.

        BYD isn’t god but I can understand why people might think it is here with the endless glazing of BYD.

        An exaggeration - the "glazing" is about the accessibility and affordability of practical EVs that have long been out of financial reach, not that BYD are so more amazing than any other brand.

        Having said that, BYD is clearly at the forefront of EV technology, both in terms of longer range and faster charging.

        • I think people with diesel cars will naturally move to other fuel sources which is honestly a good thing. There must be heaps of people running diesels unnecessarily just because they want a big Ranger or Landcrusier. I am sure they will asking themselves do I need that Landcruiser or will a RAV4 hybrid work…

          Can BYD fix it? Maybe… Are they? not really. Coles have Volvo electric trucks. Wooles has Foton electric trucks. The mines have EV Hilux. Cant see BYD any where here… Auspost has Mercedes Electric trucks… Where is BYD??

          BYD does have a lead on charging but that goes hand in hand with Chinese govt supported infrastructure, none of which is here.

          As I say it's BYD glazing where it doesnt really deserve any credit.

          • @Brick Tamland:

            I think people with diesel cars will naturally move to other fuel sources which is honestly a good thing.

            Totally agree. If nothing else, pure economics will drive that change over time.

            Where is BYD??

            As I said, BYD don't sell their trucks here (yet). But there are quite a number of electric truck options available, which is a good thing for the truck market.

            BYD does have a lead on charging but that goes hand in hand with Chinese govt supported infrastructure

            It has very little to do with government support. BYD have naturally concentrated their efforts on the charger network in their largest market at home. But they'll be starting construction in Australia in the near future, albeit only in a few select locations for now.

            As I say it's BYD glazing where it doesnt really deserve any credit.

            Can you give an example of this "glazing?" I'm not seeing it.

            • @klaw81: The facts that there are no BYD EV trucks here. As listed above it’s from all other makers. The biggest installer of recharging infrastructure here is Tesla and AMPOL, again no BYD. That BYD charger is one at a dealer, thats not even built yet, that’s gonna be used to sell cars, not recharge general cars.

              I am sorry but the BYD hype is out of control. While BYD and other fanbois hypes products there are other companies quietly building ev infrastructure and selling actual EV trucks here.

              • @Brick Tamland:

                I am sorry but the BYD hype is out of control.

                Is it in the room with us?

                Seriously, can you identify a single instance of "BYD glazing" anywhere in this discussion? I'm really struggling to understand where this is coming from. It seems as though you got triggered elsewhere and came here to vent.

                • @klaw81: Just gave you examples. You talking about BYD coming up with these solutions is not inline with reality here.

                  • @Brick Tamland:

                    Just gave you examples

                    So your examples of the "out of control hype" and "glazing" are:

                    1. Me pointing out that BYD trucks exist, but aren't available here yet; and
                    2. Somebody else pointing out that BYD Flash Chargers exist, but aren't available here yet.

                    Can you point out on the doll where BYD touched you?

                    You talking about BYD coming up with these solutions is not inline with reality here.

                    I didn't say a single thing about BYD "coming up with these solutions." I just mentioned that they're at the forefront of developing fast-charging and new battery technology, which is just a fact.

                    I'm far from a BYD fanboy. I've sat in a few and I took a friend's Seal for a quick drive once, but never even come close to owning one.

                    • @klaw81: I am unfortunately taking it out on you but there is lots of unbridled BYD praise here. I think putting BYD on the pedestal
                      to solve our issues when they have literally zero investment into trucking and charging infrastructure here just hit my buttons. Also that fast charging can only exist significant electrical backbone. Like the NBN rollout it’s going to require immense govt spending before BYD can even think about rolling out fast charging akin to what they are doing in China.

                      • @Brick Tamland:

                        I think putting BYD on the pedestal to solve our issues when they have literally zero investment into trucking and charging infrastructure here just hit my buttons.

                        I agree with that sentiment in general. Although I have to say I don't see it here on OzBargain much.

                        BYD's biggest influence in Australia thus far has been via selling a lot of affordable EVs to the masses, and a ute for the slightly more refined species of bogan.

                        Also that fast charging can only exist significant electrical backbone.

                        That's true of all rapid charging technology, to some extent. But the pressures placed on the grid by Flash Charging (as currently implemented by BYD in China) are not nearly as extreme as you might expect, precisely because there are very few places that could support the full charging rate directly from the grid.

                        Have a closer look at the way Flash Charging actually works - they don't require a 1.5 megawatt rated grid connection. Instead, they use a much smaller grid connection (250kW per charger) combined with an on-site high-discharge buffer batterywith a capacity of around 400kW capacity. When an EV charging session is initiated, the battery and the grid connection are used in tandem to deliver the full charge rate, with the battery supporting 75-85% of the load. When the charging session is complete, the grid connection is used to refill the buffer battery, ready for the next charge.

                        BYD says they can charge 4-5 vehicles in quick succession before the buffer battery is too depleted to maintain full speed charging. They use very high voltage to keep current lower, and have active liquid cooling to keep the battery, charger and cable cool.

                        Obviously a grid connection sufficient for 250kW per charger is still pretty hefty, but it's not dissimilar to the requirements for a modern Tesla Supercharger bay, and installations of >8 Supercharger bays are becoming commonplace in Australia these days.

                        In general, I totally agree that Australia's electrical networks are going to need a lot of strategic upgrades over the next 15 years to accommodate the growth of EV charging and electrification more generally. But it's a change that can happen relatively gradually as adoption rates climb, and it's buffered somewhat by all of the storage and solar that's sitting behind the meter these days.

                        • @klaw81:

                          Australia's electrical networks are going to need a lot of strategic upgrades over the next 15 years … it's buffered somewhat by all of the storage and solar that's sitting behind the meter these days

                          The beauty of EV chargers with battery backup is that they can easily be added to lretty much any point on the grid and if necessary, be backed up with installation of sokar panels.

                          Yes, the grid is going to need some decent upgrades, but that is going to be well offset by battery and solar on local small scale. Dont need to uograde transmission lines anywhere near as much when you can add new generation locally.

      • But I didn't know about "cancer-causing" It is so hard to keep up with what is killing me.

        Diesel engine exhaust is categorized as a class 1 carcinogen.

        The premise is that Carbon dioxide is not the primary source of life on our planet, but the primary destroyer.

        What are you talking about? Is this another rightwing straw man fallacy, where you create some nonsense argument and pretend that your opponents believe it to make you feel better about your own "superior" beliefs?

        From there we all descend in a million rabbit holes like nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, volatile organic compounds, ultrafine combustion particles, soot/black carbon, and various partially burned hydrocarbons.

        No, these are the actual particles emitted in ICE vehicle exhaust and present on Australians streets where people breathe them in, and which are not emitted by EVs.

        Some of these particles increase the risk of dementia/alzheimers through long-term exposure, while some increase the risk of cardiovascular diseases, respiratory diseases, and stroke.

        Anyway I just read that the world has spent almost $30 Trillion to save us

        Thanks world. That was very generous of you.

        and "Renewables" have achieved 3% market penetration.

        But seriously, BloombergNEF says cumulative global renewable-energy investment over the past decade was a little over $4 trillion, not $30 trillion.

        Renewables supplied roughly 32% of global electricity in 2024, and that’s looking like around 35% for 2025, with a reasonable estimate for 2026 of about 36%, which is already more than one-third and edging towards 40%.

        Plenty of European countries are already far beyond that. In 2025, renewables supplied about 92% of Denmark’s electricity, 83% of Austria’s and 83% of Portugal’s. Across the EU as a whole, the figure was about 47%.

        That $30 trillion figure you cited is some weird prediction floating around on the internet regarding future investment into renewables.

        Would you like to estimate how much the “world” has invested in fossil fuels over the past 50 years?

        It’s funny how right-wingers portray investment in renewables as a waste, even when it’s doing exactly what it’s supposed to do: generating power, improving energy security and grid resilience, and reducing pollution.

          • @Cognitive Consonance:

            What is it that 8 billion humans & every living creature on the planet exhale all day every day of their lives?
            It's carbon dioxide.

            And?

          • @Cognitive Consonance:

            And then you want to nitpick me on numbers?????

            I would like you know where you are pulling the 3% figure from given you didn't bother to reference anything. What specifically are you claiming when you say "Renewables have achieved 3% market penetration".?

            This states "Renewable energy accounted for more than 30% of the world’s electricity" (and that was years ago.)

            https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/08/…

            Solar and wind especially are showing basically exponential growth in generation: https://imgur.com/a/YVC0xsm

      • The premise is that Carbon dioxide is not the primary source of life on our planet, but the primary destroyer.

        This is a commonly cited strawman. The premise is not that CO2 is a "primary destroyer" - that has never been the claim.

        CO2 is a natural part of the atmosphere, and vital to the balance of a healthy ecosystem. The issue is how much extra CO2 is present in our atmosphere - which is now very significantly higher than any level on record, based on ice cores and other natural sources of long-term historical data.

        The scale of additional volumes of CO2 and other greenhouse gases that are constantly being added to the Earth's atmosphere through human activities (primarily burning fuels, but also releasing methane etc) is what is causing massive concern.

        Your mis-representation of the issue is a clear and deliberate mis-representation of climate science.

        Who said the "Renewables" industry doesn't require/produce the exact same inputs?

        This is super basic science that even a child can understand.

        The manufacturing of renewable energy infrastructure has an impact, which nobody disputes. It might even have a higher impact compared to building an equivalent fossil fuel generator. But that only happens once. During the operation of renewable energy infrastructure over a ~30 year period, their impact is practically zero, whereas fossil fuel generators add to their impact all day, every day they're operational.

        You can dig into the minutiae as much as you like, but the basic principle is simple and irrefutable.

        Anyway I just read that the world has spent almost $30 Trillion to save us over multiple decades and "Renewables" have achieved 3% market penetration.

        Citation definitely needed. That 3% penetration is clear and obvious BS.

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