IMO, the solution for both businesses and consumers to avoid card fees while staying digital is to use PayID. However, I know only a handful of shops and stalls that accept PayID. I wonder why, since most people use it to transfer money.
Why Is PayID So Underused in Shops?
doutorrr on 01/10/2026 - 13:47
Last edited 01/10/2026 - 14:03 by 1 other user
Last edited 01/10/2026 - 14:03 by 1 other user
Comments
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Yeah, the pain and stress of typing in the 10 digit phone number of 11 digit ABN on the phone, making sure each digit is correct, filling up the correct payment amount etc.
Why isn't there a standard URL format for PayID payments, using the payto:// scheme, where a merchant can generate a QR code containing the right info & amount, and the customers can just scan, confirm and let the banking app take over?
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That sounds like a vibe coded app idea.
Maybe you can post it free as a deal so the mods can move it to the megathread.- 21
QR type payments are used in parts of the world. I am not sure there's much value in Australia given we have card and phone tap-n-go.
Next step will be facial recognition type payments.- 2
@logistics: In Brazil, we have a payment method called PIX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) (It is similar to payid but much broader)
For those who don't know, Brazil has one of the most advanced banking systems in the world, with a long history of pioneering financial technology. PIX is a great example of that. It wasn't "vibe coded" š it was developed as a national payment infrastructure and is now deeply integrated into everyday life.
I've always wondered, with all the surcharge issues happening here in Australia, why there isn't an easier way to pay directly from your bank account using PayID and a QR code.
In Brazil, virtually every bank has a PIX button right on the first page of its app, so you can make a payment in just a few seconds. It's completely free for individuals and accepted basically everywhere, from large retailers to small cafĆ©s, restaurants, markets and even street vendors and USA is looking at it https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/brazil-us-clash-oveā¦.
You simply scan the QR code, confirm the amount, and the money is transferred instantly. No card, no EFTPOS machine, and no surcharge.
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Or we scam a QR like in China
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No one likes a scam
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@Some Random Guy: I like the idea of QR codes.
WeChat pay and AliPay have instant confirmation- but they are from/to same institution.
Even Cambodia has a QR code for payments.
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@JimB: So how many of the various other third-party platforms that have tried this in Australia have you actually tried?, there's three of them actively now built on top of PayTo.
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Just back from Saigon and they have their act together. VietQR codes very common and replaces the need for wads of cash or else paying a 3% interconnect fee when using a card (remember those interconnect fees from last month š¤)
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You know whatās easier than VietQR? ApplePay.
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There is a standard for QR but no bank app supports it.
Another possible option is bank apps display a QR code to pay and the merchant scans it and then we accept the charge in the bank app using payto.
Most banks already support payto as well.
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Why isn't there a standard URL format for PayID payments, using the payto://(rfc-editor.org) scheme, where a merchant can generate a QR code containing the right info & amount, and the customers can just scan, confirm and let the banking app take over?
From memory, this was some of the stuff that they were looking into originally. As they were looking to implement QR codes, but I think it's mostly because this payment platform is not really designed for in person business transactions.
Some companies have supported it in certain circumstances that it does sort of makes sense, but really, those circumstances really mean that customer should probably eventually move those types of payments to the PayTo solution.
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Which gave opportunities to alternate apps such as Beem which uses eftpos network to perform instant fund transfer. Unfortunately not all banks support eftpos, notably one of OzBargain's favourites, Macquarie.
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Which gave opportunities to alternate apps such as Beem which uses eftpos network to perform instant fund transfer.
That product is an interesting story because it was essentially the Commonwealth Bank, stepping on an effort led by the industry.
Their product had a more faster go to market strategy. As it was built on existing payment rails at the time, e.g. Visa/Mastercard for taking the payment and eftpos for the instant refund. Eventually adjusted to be full eftpos. Eventually, everything got rolled into Australian Payments Plus. and now Beem been sold off as it was in decline for quite awhile now.
Versus the effort led by the NPP/BPAY. Which involved quite a few things simultaneously and long turnaround for bank integration as essentially as it was a long-term Infrastructure upgrade.
AP+ did eventually player round with QR Codes for taking in person payments through Beem before selling it. But that was also talks of having QR codes implemented in pretty much most of the NPP a lot of it didn't eventuate originally most likely I believe because BPAY wasn't successful, bringing it to market several years earlier.
Unfortunately not all banks support eftpos, notably one of OzBargain's favourites, Macquarie.
Don't know when this will change, but it will eventually. Macquarie, essentially use their exit as leverage to get a seat at the table when the rollup happens in to Australian Payments Plus.
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This.
Bank transfers (which is typically what QR codes/PayID fundametally are, just with jazzed up clothes) are never really meant for business-consumer transactions. There's actually quite a lot that goes into a single transaction like fraud protection (is the cash being sent legit?), account confirmation (does the account actually exist?), and most crucially: who's guaranteeing the business actually receives the cash.
With card transactions, all of these factors falls onto the banks: the merchant's bank "takes the effort" to compile a list of questions like "check this account" "is it legit" "please send cash" etc and to send comms to the cardholder's bank who then "takes the effort" to check all the "questions" that the merchant's bank has sent over and send comms back to the merchant's bank confirming all those questions and then the merchant's bank then "takes the effort" to issue a "send cash over please" comms that the cardholder's bank then "takes the effort" to send cash over to the merchant's bank who then "takes the effort" to confirm to the merchant that money's come through properly and safely. All of these "efforts" is literally the reason why we have card surcharges in the first place; banks are not going to take all this "effort" for free.
QR codes / PayID doesnt do any of this. All that security and guarantee of legit cash coming through becomes nothing but a "trust me bro" from the customer. Not many merchants will be willing to take that risk en masse for their daily transactions.
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Was there not a shop back pay where you scan a QR code or something a while back?\
Anyone remember what happened to that? sounds similar…
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ShopBack stopped the in-store purchase.
LivenPay still works.
But these are limited to restaurants.
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@JimB: I used Liven a lot a while back, but noticed a lot of merchants stopped accepting it, even though it was listed. I reported one as stopped accepting, liven just apologised, credited me the amount and 1month on it was still there. 2, 3 months on, it was still listed on liven, when I went to ask the shop if they accept liven, they said no.
Liven seems not interested in removing merchants to appear more popular than in reality. I think I went from spending thousands on liven each year to nothing this year.
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@cloudy: That's lazy of Liven. I think they lost their way. They even launched a cryptocoin.
I still use it for Master Lanzhou, I buy the bonus credit from time to time. It was great at the start- 100% bonus credit. Now it's like 20% or so. Still better than nothing. But that year I had $1,000 brand dollars, I did eat quite a number of bowls lol.
A few Ramen places have 10% credit when I last used them.
Laksa King use to be 10%, now it's down to 2%. Not even worth the effort.
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Indonesia has a system called QRIS. Most merchants display a QR code - anywhere from a street food cart to a luxury shopping mall. People scan the QR code, enter the amount they want to send and the merchant's phone dings to say the funds have been received.
It's such a simple system, pretty sure other SEA countries have similar things. We don't have to go full China where we wave our palms, but at least a standardised QR code system would make life so much simpler.
You could even have it built into the merchant's POS, so they generate a QR code for each transaction, the customer scans, authorises the amount the merchant is requesting and then walk out.
The reason we don't have this is because the banks and Visa & Mastercard have us cornered and are addicted to the fees.
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They can't even choose PayID because they dont have actual money in their bank account when they owe the bank interest fees debt from last year spending.
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How did I miss this saga?!?
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I wish my autism could have given me useful abilities like insane pattern memory , or incredible at math/ all round savant ā¦ instead I got the āobsessed with Ozbargain loreā , and āgolden era Simpsons quotesā
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Literally experienced it recently where a store's POS was down so they posted their payID details. It took an additional 5-10 mins at least per customer to be processing the payment, was a nightmare!
Personally I don't mind paying through payID (have seen another store in Springvale with note indicating they accept payID), however it definitely have to be improvised to facilitate quick payment (which seem like it was never the original design intended)
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Like being stuck behind a pensioner at auspost.
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ā¦.arguing over when stamp prices rose from 21c - itās happened to me more than once.
Also dry cleaning and lotto/scratchie nonsense.
Jeez the PO can suck!
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In my experience it's less arguing and more that they love to have a good long chat with the people behind the counter, though that one is also on the people behind the counter for not discouraging that behaviour (especially when there's people waiting), or that they just take forever to do anything.
It also seems mandatory to have miserable and rude middle aged women staffing most locations.
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Foolish For Selling
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That's the experience of shopping in store.
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Some banks put a 24hr hold on transfers to new payees. Imagine how great it would be if you pay using PayID, your bank holds the payment, merchant doesn't receive the payment so won't give you the goods. You then have to leave without your stuff. Payment clears next day. You have to come back and get your stuff. Not to mention the confusion and chaos with the consumer thinking they are being robbed and the merchant worried they are being scammed etc etc
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This is why I refuse to bank with CBA and Bankwest. They're the two main offenders.
IMO PayID should be 100% instant at all times, that's exactly what it was designed for. There's always going to be people getting scammed, that simply can't be stopped… but banks who butcher the system that was designed for instant transfers grind my gears.
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It seems like the banks are being held responsible for when their customers do get scammed these days, even when it isn't the bank's fault.
We can't have it both ways. Either we accept that the banks may want to add extra protection for those who do get scammed as well as themselves, or we can't expect them to be held liable for any of their customer's losses incurred via these scams.
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If a customer authorises a bank transfer to a scammer, it is 100% the customers fault. These media cry me a river stories from the pensioners who lost their life savings and are demanding the bank refund them are a joke.
Society should not demand that the bank covers losses if one of their customers willingly transfers money to a complete stranger and never sees it again.
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You're right but surely PayID could whitelist legit businesses.
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Those holds are on the bank side, banks can also refuse to honor card transactions as well.
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PayID was never intended to be used this way.
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The shopkeeper's time understanding and verifying this rare payment type isn't free.
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Good point. How about, to compensate the shopkeeper we add like some sort of extra fee to account for the extra effort. Problem solved!
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And get the banks to pay some engineers to add PayID to chips on physical cards so they can just tap them on POS machines that the banks spend billions rolling out to read these PayID chips and instantly verify the purchase to the shopkeeper, and just charge the merchant about a modest one percent fee for the troubles of setting up and maintaining this system.
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You know what, I think we've got something here.
Gimme a sec I'm gonna fire up Claude and vibe code a site for investors!!
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And imagine if this fee was included in the price of business operations such that customers are not slugged with a fee at checkout, and the final receipt price (the number that shows up on screen) includes all taxes, fees, discounts, etc!
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It's not a fee, it's a service that's chargeable because there's value and cost to it. Maybe call it a sercharge
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Great. Go to shops to buy milk, 24hours later.after payment clears i get my milk
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Got milk?
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He's got a few hours left to wait on his 24. "17 hours 8 min ago."
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Imagine the holdups while the cashier has to check they received it, then the ensuring delays and arguments when it didn't go through. Then you'll have the Deon Hung types who just fake the transaction before quietly retreating to their AMG when challenged.
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Asian countries solved this with QR code payments. Australia a decade + behind like usual.
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Australia Tax and lazy will not let it happen.
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That doesn't solve anything since you can't charge surcharges. Otherwise Paypal has this function ready.
Back to square one.
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"Solved". Quoting myself:
Why is a QR code better than tap & pay? There's still a corporation sitting behind that, taking fees & mining your data.
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- Some banks hold the funds for 24+ hours
- No security on transfers.
2a. Refunds will prob be a pain in the ass as it's not a common transaction
Furthermore, the card fees will be baked into the product and service pricing now, so even if payID was a common form of payment to avoid fees, you'll still be paying fees now through the product and service prices.
I have paid businesses through PayID but usually they are small businesses, just as long I get a receipt I am good. But one rep said it's annoying to follow-up on cleared transfers when the bank (mainly commbank) holds it for 24+ hours and then they can release the product, etc…
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In terms of convenience, nothing beats tapping with your phone/watch/card.
And I want to pay with bank's money, so I use credit card, not transferring money from my offset, with payid, QR or any other means.if it's too expensive for vendor, that's understandable, and they can decide to remove that option
I, as a consumer, can decide I don't want to spend my money with the vendor that thinks my convenience is too expensive for them.So far, coffee joints nearby haven't raised their prices and still accept credit cards. We'll see in next months if it's a real problem
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Why Is Payid So Underused in Shops?
Just ask yourself: would you sell a item on Marketplace with a PayID?
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Yes if the money has cleared in your account, why not?
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I have never had any issue in many years. As long as you check your own bank account and don't fall for the email payid scam, it's not a problem.
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Yes, already did.
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If I can see the payment in my account cleared, why not? What's the problem?
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When I sell on MarketPllace, I take PayID all the time. I hate cash, and won't accept it. Electronic transfer only. PayID is the most common.
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You got poo for brains mate. I've sold a car on FBMP using PayID.
What's with some Australians and their love for paying to implement bureaucracy in every day tasks… Like you don't need carsales pay.
You know you can trust people? We live in a very high trust society and our court of law is pretty much based on ensuring contracts/agreements between private parties are held.
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Are you one of those people who believe court only costs tree fiddy and you get your case heard that afternoon? Dumb. Real legal costs for something not settled by QCAT or similar will cost you $10,000 minimum. Even rolling the dice with QCAT is no guarantee as those who have had the pleasure of using it know. Then there is the process of getting the money out of the other party if you are successful.
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I said our country's court of law is based on the system of enforcing private agreements.
You sell a car and they send you money and they sue you? That's frivolous and will get thrown out (and you could represent yourself as its such a cut and dry case)
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Yes, heaps of times
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I don't even like PayID when selling items on Marketplace. I just want to say hi, hand the item over, receive the cash and say have a good day. 30 seconds max. I don't want to stand there on my doorstep while I tell someone my number for PayID and wait for them to sort it then check I've received it.
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Cash>PayID
But its not like payid is unusable. It's completely valid, fine, and inoffensive. And if you don't wanna give your number just give then your BSB and ACC num (or use an email).
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It takes time for the technology to evolve and for people to adapt. But it's the future. As we can see, it's faster to tap and walk out of a store than putting the cash into a machine.
Same principle applies here. PayID can attach a QR code where people can just scan. But again some people would have problem with using QR code.
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I was BSB confirmed bank transaction before departure, cash on pick up (with a witness of mine present and transaction recorded) and PayPal as options for a buyer to pay me $8,000 for an item at pick up. Ability to completely inspect whist there.
Lots of back & forth negotiating on a price that I said was form, no negotiations. "I'm poor, grandma's dying"..
Tried for a few different meeting spots, including one at local police station which has clear Perspex booths for these situations. Not happy at other public places such as shopping centres where CCTV etc. asked me to post.
Eventually met up with me at front entry to Westfield shopping centre saying he only had $6k and asking to use Pay ID or he would report me for being a scammer.
I said NOPE and let them walk way with nothing.
I still have no idea what PayID is.
Went to list a heap of my mum's very old, but good condition vintage designer bags. Said PayPal only for those too and got a bunch of insults cos I wouldn't use PaY id.
I'm too old to be using these new payment methods that don't include Nigerian oil riggers and hoping they're secure. Leave my risk taking activities somewhere else, but not with my money.
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With payid all you need to do is verify that the money has hit your account before you let the buyer walk away with the goods. BSB likely uses the same underlying tech, OSKO.
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Without it, I don't need anything to do with it.
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The same scams can still happen, ie false app emulating bsb transfer. Its best to always ensure the money has hit your account before handing the goods over. Giving out my bsb and account number has opened me up to more scams. Someone set up a direct debit using my bsb and account number, and it was a pain to get the money back.
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@Quarter Pounder: In eBay days there was only direct bank transfer ie BSB & a/c # (or cash on exchange or PayPal and we were taught direct bank transfer
Nobody can scam or take your money back or use the deets to do anything else other than deposit more money.
Person can't draw any money out, only put it in.
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@Quarter Pounder: There's no way you can take money out with only a bsb and acc num. Had they had stolen some of your ID too?
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@Some Random Guy: Its a legit thing that happens, my friend didn't believe me, but then he had $150 taken out of his account after he willingly gave me his bsb and account number. It happens.
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@Quarter Pounder: Your experience made me check online and yeah it does happen however fortunately people can only set up a direct deposit if they're an authorised merchant, etc andlegally the fraud as to be reversed (which would be a b*tch). Atleast it means the money is safer/eaiser to retrieve than if you transferred to money to them (I.e. scam item on FBMP)
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Recently came back from a trip to India. Forger pay id, all stores have a QR code that you can scan to pay them. Such a simple idea and works well, Aus is well behind.
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I just hand over cash or tap my card and it's done. How is that problematic or more difficult than scanning a code & then tapping on various buttons on your phone?
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Why is a QR code better than tap & pay? There's still a corporation sitting behind that, taking fees & mining your data.
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If the "corporation" is Visa or Mastercard, or Alibaba or Tencent, then QR code is no better than tap & pay.
However if all banking apps can support a standard PayID URI scheme, then no 3rd party interchange is required. I scan a QR code, my phone pops up a list of banking apps that support the PayID URI, switch to that specific app with all the details filled, press confirm — and it's done. Money is transferred between two banks via NPP.
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Sounds like a less convenient EFTPOS network
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@Randolph Duke: There are single-network debit cards that don't work on EFTPOS, i.e. Macquarie & Southern Cross Credit Union.
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Direct bank2bank transfer (instant), low/none upfront cost (no pos machine, no proprietary software/portal, maybe a few piece of paper and a speaker for successful transfer) and commission fee (domestic operator), easier to integrate promo code/loyalty and pos platform (could just vibe code to customize per transaction account), easier fallback (multiple bank/app could be used)
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How is the register getting confirmation of payment? Honour system? Itās not instant either, some banks hold PayId for 24 hours.
Serious businesses arenāt vibe coding their payment/transaction systems. Who wants the headache and have no support.
If someone ba multiple apps theyāll have multiple cards.
Personally making me using apps on my phone to finalise payment sounds like slowing me down - imagine less technically proficient people.
It works in Asia because they have mega apps that hold money - which compared to the regulatory oversight of banks here, Iāll take the banks.
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Even SriLanka is there with LankaQR
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Kebab shop near me does cash or payid only.
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Australia should try to get away from Mastercards, Visa and American Express. do some qr code payment processing without the need of those 3.
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Australia should try to get away from Mastercards, Visa and American Express
They could call it something like, say, Bankcard. What do you reckon. Would it take off?
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We already have our local alternative, but the banks, even though they own and control most of it, choose to heavily focus towards the US companies because they get a decent cut from them, despite our homegrown solution. Mostly because the liability and fraud handling is done by those schemes instead of being needed to handled by the bank and underwritten by them.
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Already done. It was wildly successful, until the big boys came to town.Then it wasn't cool anymore to have a Bankcard. There's a bit more to it than that but that's the synopsis.
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I really surprised nobody has mentioned China in this thread yet.
If you have been to China then you will know how alipay and WeChat pay work as itās literally impossible to get around without it.
Itās not the same as ājust use payidā but in my opinion it would be an enhancement of payid and the NPP to turn it into a QR code based payment system similar to china. And thereās no need for visa and Mastercard to be involved.
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WeChat Pay has a transaction fee for merchants. Merchants there have been absorbing it in the final price. Go figure.
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Absorbing a cost of doing business? Say it ain't so.
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Honestly, Aussie payment system has not kept up well with many of the Asian systems. Though, I have to give credit where it's due - payment systems in Australia have much friendlier processes for consumers to dispute payments and recover funds from fraud. And that benefit comes with major shortcomings for convenience. I have been fortunate enough to use QR code based instant payments in some of the Asian countries, and unfortunate enough to have to deal with a local bank there to dispute a fraudulent payment done from my account. The onus is on the consumer to provide proof of fraud, and banks are pretty light on doing much work in such cases. I have dealt with banks in Australia as well for fraudulent payments and the difference in their handling was day and night
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Though, I have to give credit where it's due
You give them credit where it's due, the banks also give them credit no pun indeed. Australians loves Credit because it enables them the lifestyle that their wages can't sustain. Credit is a spending freedom and also an instant slave to the banks. QR codes need actual money, bank slaves can only rely on credit cards where they earn high amount of unvaluable points.
QR codes that needs actual money won't take off in Australia as is one of the highest credit debt countries.
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I don't even have PayID setup.
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Same.
One thing that bothers me with PayID that anyone can just enter my phone number in bank app and see my last name. One more point of data for scammers / ID theft.
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Setup PayID with an email address. Simples.
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When I'm shopping the majority of people in the queue ahead of me don't even have their card or rewards card ready for processing.
Imagine the delay using payid.
FFS