Did he have the right to get angry at me? (or how local shoe retailers are dying)

LnotYuna on 27/05/2013 - 17:11
Last edited 27/05/2013 - 17:37

Looking for opinions on this as I'm a bit surprised at what happened to me today.

So I went to the local sports shoe retailer - it's a small shop on the corner of the street - I think it's ran by just one guy - pop in just to say hey, I'm looking around for some new runners, could you help me out? After trying out some shoes, he tries to sell me a pair, which I politely decline.

However, I ask for what model the shoe was, then he immediately did a 360 and went on a rant on how he will refuse to give out shoe model numbers as he would lose business etc. I wanted to give him some sort of payment for his consultation because I genuinely appreciated it (and I was willing to pay for it), but he seemed so pissed off at me (and apparently, many, many other people in the past few months) who just come in, do the sort of stuff I did, then leave without making a transaction. By that point, I didn't think I could reason with him and quickly left the store.

I'm just wondering if he had every right to get angry at me over this. I understand it's a small business and he is trying to make every sale possible, but should it be necessary to lash it out on a potential customer? I felt that if he delivered his rant in a more polite manner, I would have actually considered coming back and buying the shoes from him, but now I'm just that shocked that I'll definitely not be going back again. Also, was I doing anything wrong by doing what I did?

This also begs another question, the death of the local shoe retailer - with online shopping being so popular, how can they keep up?

(Don't know if it's worth cross posting over at Whirlpool, but I'm keen to hear fellow OzBargainer's thoughts on this)

General Discussion

Comments

  • battler on 27/05/2013 - 17:29
    +16

    put yourself in his position. although you can, he most likely can't see that you are any different from the possibly many who come in, try on, then take model number and leave.
    perhaps an explanation of why you want the model number and/or offer of payment before asking for the model number would be better approach.

    • blablabla23 on 27/05/2013 - 19:23
      +24

      i don't see why you have to explain yourself to the retailer. It's a service industry, for goodness sake, you don't owe the retailer anything.

      In fact, a study conducted by American Express on Australian consumers showed that

      73% of respondents [who were] willing to pay more for good service, would also be willing to pay up to 12% more for a product if accompanied by excellent customer service.

      bottomline? There's no excuse for bad customer service, no matter how you try to justify it.

      • plmko on 27/05/2013 - 20:07
        +29

        What you posted actually supports the angry store guy, he provided top notch service by letting OP try on many shoes. But the OP still chose to not buy on the spot and decided to ask for the model number.

        Now tell me if people are "willing to pay more for good service".

        I think it's easy to say you'll pay for good service, but when the shonky store next door puts up a 10% off price, I'm sure the grand majority of the 73% respondents will be heading that way.

        • blablabla23 on 27/05/2013 - 22:07
          -2

          he provided top notch service by letting OP try on many shoes

          yes initially, but then did a complete 180 and went all mental when OP wanted a model number instead. That isn't service- it's verbal abuse.

          when the shonky store next door puts up a 10% off price, I'm sure the grand majority of the 73% respondents will be heading that way

          if the store next door puts up a 10% off discount, there's no stopping you from doing the same thing. It's called competition. If you can't compete, something somewhere in your supply chain has gone wrong and you need to fix that. You can't expect people to buy from you when you yourself can't be bothered to find out why your cost price is higher.

          And for the record, i'm one of those that wouldn't mind a 10% premium because i know i'll be getting good service. One particular coffee shop i frequent doesn't sell the cheapest beverages but the baristas are friendly, chatty and acknowledges me by name every time. That's what you call good service and that's what i'm willing to pay extra for.

        • ESEMCE on 28/05/2013 - 08:43
          +7

          It's called competition. If you can't compete, something somewhere in your supply chain has gone wrong and you need to fix that

          So you expect the service to come free all of a sudden?

          But you just quoted:

          In fact, a study conducted by American Express on Australian consumers showed that
          73% of respondents [who were] willing to pay more for good service, would also be willing to pay up to 12% more for a product if accompanied by excellent customer service.

          You can't expect people to buy from you when you yourself can't be bothered to find out why your cost price is higher.
          It's obvious why his cost price is higher!
          One store is offering service vs the other store leeching off his service!

        • sycojt on 30/05/2013 - 01:12

          Sounds like you're paying for people to be friendly to you and not actually providing you any advice and help like the shoe store in the story.

        • ninjutsu on 30/05/2013 - 15:38

          No what is being said here is if your business model is no longer effective in the market, or keeping up to date, then your business will not survive in said market for long.
          Personally I dislike sales people and would much rather browse and purchase without chit chat. Perhaps a business model where you could pay something to get consultation or advise would be a very effective addition to stores like this.

          I dont know if any of you have experienced the demise of any retail markets here but I have with the closure of many of my favourite record shops, one of the only times where I do like customer service/ ability to talk artists.

  • tonyjzx on 27/05/2013 - 17:38
    +21

    is this a troll thread or what?

    from your description it sounds like you want to buy online and bleed this poor guy for info

    be truthful - were you gonna buy a pair or not?

    • scrimshaw on 27/05/2013 - 17:47
      +9

      Lets try a different anology. If you went to a car dealer to try out a car, but had no intention to actually do business, does the car dealer have any right to get uppity and chase you out?

      IMO getting angry and chasing customers out is poor form, but given that many customers who enter a shop and ask to be serviced while not providing any business can be seen unfair (shopkeeper spends time and energy servicing you for free)
      However the OP has offered compensation for that service…to simply label this as a troll thread is unjustified.

      • notYuna on 27/05/2013 - 17:54

        To be honest, I didn't actually mention anything about compensation to him. I wanted to do it, but I was immediately shocked by his sudden change in attitude that I thought that if I did offer compensation, it would offend him somehow and it would lead to even more problems, which is why I hurried out of the store.

        If it was one of those huge chain footwear stores, I wouldn't really care much - but in this situation where it's a self-employed bloke trying to make ends meet, I feel somewhat guilty here.

        • tonyjzx on 27/05/2013 - 18:09
          +10

          sometimes its not about money

          if some mook came in wanting to bend my ear in a chain store and he offered me a fiver that I'm not even gonna get whats the point?

          end of the day, dont waste people's time

        • gmatht on 28/05/2013 - 00:05

          Hmm, I wonder if the restocking cost is significantly higher than delivery from on online store? If not there would in a sense be little point in accepting a tip when they could just offer a discount.

        • SydStrand on 28/05/2013 - 14:17
          +9

          "To be honest, I didn't actually mention anything about compensation to him."

          So the one, mostly redeeming quality from your first post is basically nullified. While the intent is appreciated, think about it from his perspective. Some guy just came into his store, he puts in the work and helps you, then you ask for a model number before leaving.

        • kasp on 30/05/2013 - 13:44
          +8

          Bullshit you were going to pay him compensation.

          You are just telling yourself that after the fact to make yourself feel better for abusing the services of a shopkeeper.

          Now he shouldn't have given you that response but he is probably on the ropes because of online shops and vented.

        • Mikeshashimi on 31/05/2013 - 09:33
          +2

          That's not what good customer service is all about. For everyone that walks into a store, there always that POSSIBILITY (no matter how slight) that he/she will be an eventual purchaser. Everyone is a POTENTIAL customer and should be treated as such.

          If the shopkeeper was so scared of people leeching 'information' off him, then just charge a deposit for 'trying out' shoes. Or disallow 'trying' altogether.

          The bottomline is, your customer (even potential ones) are your business. They may not buy from you the first time, but if you're nice enough, maybe next time they'll go, "Hey, that guy from that store was really cool, maybe I'll buy runners from him".

          I appreciate the difficulty of being in retail, but really, make a connection with your customer. Your next customer might just be a freaking filthy rich bugger who would pay you 10,000 times the cost of a pair of shoes because he's that filthy rich.

      • expertreader on 27/05/2013 - 19:00
        +12

        although i can see your point.. comparing shoe dealer with car dealer is not fair… car dealers dont have competition from overseas online retailers… i sort of feel for the shoe dealer in this case because he must have gone through a lot of customers getting info and not buying anything so finally he seem to have starting to lash out at customers(its still not right though). local retailers 10 years ago would have gone through the same scenario but not as cut throat as online retailers.

        • scrimshaw on 27/05/2013 - 19:50
          +4

          local retailers 10 years ago would have gone through the same scenari

          Well, times do change. Those who are in the small scale retail business are getting caught out and with online shopping / ebay becoming the norm they will eventually have to adapt, or give up completely.

          To OP — at least the store is not charging you to window shop, like this sign shows in Brisbane:
          http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130326/16500822469/dumb-p…

          Its like they're actually desperate to go out of business.

        • ESEMCE on 28/05/2013 - 08:48
          +8

          The problem is that consumers LOSE far more in this new scenario!
          If you can't try on shoes before buying them, you WILL end up with a pair that doesn't fit, or isn't comfortable on your foot, maybe not on the first or second purchase, but eventually.

          I feel for the Small Business owner in general in this online world, but especially for those in clothing/footwear who have become defacto service outlets for online stores.

        • expertreader on 28/05/2013 - 18:36

          well thats the point… if the shopper wants to buy it online by taking risk of buying a pair that doesn't fit then its fair enough. i think the shop owner lashed out because people go to the shop to check out the shoe first(look and feel) and then buy it online… i guess Jerry Harvey has been crying about the same thing for last couple of years but then its not the same thing - i.e.I am not comparing Jerry with the shoe retailer because Jerry harvey has made billions by sucking every last penny off us and now he cries poor when he needs to be competitive to be in the market…

        • MarkB4 on 29/05/2013 - 18:05

          Yes, never buy shoes online - how many times to get the right fit. I've gone back 3 times here in Bris with what was bought for me, 42 doesn't mean 42 it seems.

          Poor form from the manager though, getting angry - though can understand if customer was just looking for model # and abusing service, should have just politely refused to give model #.

      • plmko on 27/05/2013 - 20:12
        +6

        Not a good analogy, because cars are high revenue, high profit items that only need to sell every so often to keep a business a float. You also can't buy them cheaper online nor can you get substitutes. Even if you wasted the car dealer's time, they still walk away knowing you are at least thinking about the car and you only have one place to go to get it.

        Unlike this situation, either the shoe store guy sells on the spot or he never sees the customer ever again having lost a sale to some online store. Shoes also have to be high volume sales because profits are not exactly the highest.

        • Tgb on 29/05/2013 - 08:00

          Contrary to popular belief you will find cars are not a "high profit" item - the motor dealership average net profit margin is 2% - so they completely rely on volumes.

      • Finde on 29/05/2013 - 22:44
        +1

        Personally a car dealer is a bad analogy for this.
        With cars, it is the norm for people to go and try out the cars and not necessarily buy anything as they are looking for what they want. They are looking at all the options. They may not have the right colours etc.

        A shoe store is kind of different. If you go in, try on all the different types of shoes and then ask for the model number to go buy the exact same thing somewhere else is completely different.

  • GreyGargoyle on 27/05/2013 - 18:08
    +15

    I can't say that I blame the guy for being frustrated; once upon a time if you needed a new pair of shoes you went to the local store and bought them. It's the same for many items but most smaller stores can't compete with online prices to stay afloat. I know I save thousands a year by making my purchases online rather than in store but it doesn't really give his treatment of you any weight and is poor form.

    I've experienced similar when I went to an Optometrist for an updated prescription and asked for it to be written down so that I could order my glasses and contact lenses online because they were significantly cheaper than in store but then at least I was paying them (or rather Medicare was) something for the service.

    • ESEMCE on 28/05/2013 - 09:03
      +3

      ^This
      Poor form, but completely understandable…

  • Davo1111 on 27/05/2013 - 18:16
    +6

    Not surprised he acted that way, i'd be upset if people were doing that to me again and again.

  • timetoquit on 27/05/2013 - 18:44
    +5

    Question still remains, were you intending on buying from him or not? It seems as though you had already made up your mind before you entered the store and once you found your sizing/ style you would look for a better price online. I am positive everyone on OZB would do something similar but in a more tactful way :p

  • jimbler on 27/05/2013 - 19:28
    +16

    You were never going to buy them, and this was never going to happen -> "if he delivered his rant in a more polite manner, I would have actually considered coming back and buying the shoes from him"

    He probably felt a whole lot better after venting his spleen Al Bundy style.

    • Third_Gear on 27/05/2013 - 21:26
      +6

      +1 for Al Bundy reference. :)

      • effgee on 28/05/2013 - 15:09

        Vote 1 for Al Bundy

  • sraymond on 27/05/2013 - 19:34
    +33

    There's only one reason you would want the model number and he knew that. You also knew what you were doing and should have expected the reaction you got. Like others have said, be more tactful or you will get the same every time.

    • SydStrand on 28/05/2013 - 14:14
      +2

      IIRC, a lot of TV manufacturers are now using different model numbers between retail and online chains to prevent this 'showrooming.' I don't think the OP went in with the best intentions, if the shopkeeper spend the time with you, then you can throw him the few extra dollars over shopping online + shipping.

        • Mikeologos on 03/06/2013 - 16:25
          +1

          Yawn Series, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

          You know.

          Easy.

  • voteoften on 27/05/2013 - 19:38
    -7

    No, the sales person was in the wrong. Every customer/sales lead needs to be treated as a fresh start. What happened before does not count. The buyers "intent" is irrelevant.

    This is why I hate going to small stores. In far far too many instances, you get treated like crap, even if you buy. If something goes wrong with the item, you are often treated with suspicion.

    I was chatting with this lady and explained to her that I wanted a bee smoker and that I would go on ebay to buy it. She said there was a bee store in town. I replied I just wasn't interested in paying over the odds for something and likely getting crap service. A trip into the city would entail parking fees, petrol, etc. (I am not using it to smoke bees, so any advice they have would likely be useless).

    It is tales like this OPs, as well as other anecdotes and my personal experience that makes me think that most small retailers can totally kiss my ass.

    • Davo1111 on 27/05/2013 - 22:06
      +7

      The buyers "intent" is irrelevant.

      what else would one use the model number for? (after trying the shoes on)

      • voteoften on 28/05/2013 - 20:23
        +1

        Checking reviews online. Maybe the OP has over pronation and wishes unboased advice on whether that is the best model.

        • Davo1111 on 29/05/2013 - 13:43
          +2

          i seriously doubt that. I have never ever bought a shoe after reading a review.

          However i have used the model number from my existing shoe to buy the same model again online.

        • Domingo on 30/05/2013 - 07:14
          +2

          For my first pair of minimalist shoes, I think I read about 40-50 reviews before making a decision. The guys at Athlete's Foot and Merrell in Melbourne CBD were fantastic about talking me through the options and both tried to send me to the other to get more advice and try on more styles.

        • illusionarybreeze on 30/05/2013 - 17:31

          I have. Price of shoes + Shipping + return shipping (in case of wrong size) + shipping (replacement pair) would be similar to the price I could buy them for in Sydney, so I took a bet after reading tens of reviews online. A little larger than I wanted, since I didn't get to try them on beforehand, but they were boots and a pair of insoles solved the issue.

    • strangeloops66 on 27/05/2013 - 23:44
      +6

      Smoked bees are delicious!

    • Ughhh on 28/05/2013 - 08:07
      +4

      I find that the level of service given also depends on the customer, so if you come in with an attitude, don't expect great service or them to go the extra mile to help you.

  • TheAviator on 27/05/2013 - 20:08
    +32

    Can completely understand where he's coming from. In my opinion if you don't plan on buying a shoe from a bricks and mortar store, then don't go visiting a store to see it/try it on. It's completely unfair.

    • Eivad on 28/05/2013 - 09:38
      +20

      Try it on at Athlete's foot or Rebel Sport instead - we ozbargainers tend to have less sympathy for big corporations

    • mskeggs on 28/05/2013 - 10:13
      +6

      Not defending bad service, but really, why would you need the model number to buy from his store?
      If you want to buy online and reap the saving, you must take the risk that it is ill fitting.
      Don't take a free ride on this shop keeper, taking advantage of the costs he pays to store product, the rent he pays, the opportunity cost spent serving you instead of a paying customer (or just loafing out the back).
      Would you feel good about somebody coming and wasting your time or taking advantage of your stuff?

    • [Deactivated] on 30/05/2013 - 21:41
      +1

      Yep, an open and shut case. The OP was going to shaft the small business, got called out, and is having trouble dealing with it. OR he's a small business owner trying to make a point. If so he's done a fine job.

  • evol on 27/05/2013 - 20:26
    +9

    Sounds like a story for Today Tonight.

  • retiredfeline on 27/05/2013 - 20:35
    +2

    Well I think you poured petrol on the flames by offering him something.

    Let me ask you a hypothetical question in return: Would you have been willing to front up at the beginning and say can I pay you $X to try out shoes and take down the model number? No right answers here, just food for thought.

  • nats on 27/05/2013 - 20:38
    +9

    I dont know you from a bar of soap, but me thinks your intention always was to try and buy online - where the small bloke on the corner simply cannot compete on price (the part about you offering to pay is your conscious - which you should try to use more often) . Give the guy a break, some people seem to have lost touch with reality, there is an attack on the small business who more than likely is a part of your community - he/she could be your neighbour, has a family to feed, mortgage, bills and the rest of it, ease up and support your local business!

    • strangeloops66 on 29/05/2013 - 09:44
      +1

      Conscience, you mean. If she tries to pay unconsciously, she really deserves to have her Ozbargain membership revoked :p

      • nats on 01/06/2013 - 11:04

        Thanks mate, I'll be a lot more conscience next time :O

  • PcisT on 27/05/2013 - 20:45
    +30

    If you want to try shoes, but buy online the very least don't do it at a small business.

    • ozgriff on 27/05/2013 - 21:49
      +3

      Even most of the 'larger' shoe business owners are franchisees who are usually mums and dads; they just pay a franchise license every year for all the other benefits of the chain.

      When H.N. sells shoes will this be o.k. ;-)

      I agree with the others, if the shoe fits - buy it.

    • mskeggs on 28/05/2013 - 10:15
      +1

      Especially this example where you didn't know what model you wanted, took advantage of the sellers expertise, then asked to shop online!

  • grasstown on 27/05/2013 - 22:33

    If it was me, I wouldve bought them for his troubles. Maybe asked if he could give 10% off. But buy none the less ( though I reckon he would give it, 10 off is usual and unoffensive to ask I mostly think). I wouldnt go into a small shop and ask for model number. I don't even do it with optometrists.
    The last 10 pairs of runners I've bought are the same make of the same brand ( newer versions) of shoes online.

  • ankor on 27/05/2013 - 22:44
    +1

    I try very hard not to showroom people for this reason. If I'm getting great service from a place then I'm going to commit to buying.

    On an offhand note, I went to scopri in north carlton in melbourne on the weekend, and it was so good that we tipped them $50. I must be in the 12% although I'd never actually use american express unless it was mandated by business.

  • Aceboy884 on 27/05/2013 - 23:53
    +3

    Moral of the story, don't waste people time if you have no intention to buy

    If you just want to try, go to rebel sports and do it yourself.

    Feel sorry for the small business owner, you're lucky he didn't lock you up and beat you senseless

    then that will be a story to tell… lol!

  • Geewhizz on 28/05/2013 - 07:17
    +13

    but should it be necessary to lash it out on a potential customer?

    You clearly were not a potential customer though at that point, just a time waster.

    This also begs another question, the death of the local shoe retailer - with online shopping being so popular, how can they keep up?

    When you walk into a shoe store and try several pairs on, how many of them don't fit/are not comfortable/don't look as good 'on' as you thought they would? You've potentially forked out for each and every one of those pairs of shoes if buying untried from an online store without trying them first.

    Simply put, they can't keep up. How can you possibly expect him to be happy for you when you rub it in his face?

  • ryan-m on 28/05/2013 - 07:52
    +4

    Yep. Agree with the majority here dude. You did the wrong thing by him, I don't blame him for getting angry.

  • toffee on 28/05/2013 - 08:59

    I've just bought runners online, but they are the same model that I previously had. On that occasion I went into my local store, got all the advice, and paid for the service.

    You ask how local stores can compete… the answer is by offering a better service to people who are willing to pay for it. To that end, his reaction made perfect sense. Will you waste his time again?

  • dd22qq on 28/05/2013 - 09:02
    +7

    *Mental note: Take model number from shoe box when salesperson isn't looking

  • ethereal88 on 28/05/2013 - 09:12
    +7

    Step 1: Go to Rebel Sport

    Step 2: Try on shoes and note model number on tongue of shoe and on box

    Step 3: Say you'll think about it

    Step 4: Order online and laugh maniacally as Aussie business dies.

    I can't think of any local stores left that sell shoes, bar one in Kensington. Rest are medium or big chains. Might as well buy online anyway.

    • diamondtouch1 on 29/05/2013 - 00:37

      Thats the only local shoe store i could think of as well!

  • kaos on 28/05/2013 - 09:35
    +14

    I run 3-4000km per year, which requires about 5-6 pairs of shoes. Whenever I feel like switching brands, I go to a local store- a specialist- and get properly fitted. I buy those shoes. FROM THAT STORE. When I need new ones, if I'm feeling poor, I buy them online because I know the model and size. If I can afford it, I go back to that shop and get them.

    Of the 2 shops I normally go to, one has figured out what's happening. So they give me a 'store credit' of 10% of the value of the shoes I buy. This means when I need to buy shoes, I can look online for prices, but I know I have a credit locally, I'm likely to just go in and use my credit, and they get the business for being smart.

    I can't emphasise this enough- don't showroom small local businesses. If you do, you're making it worse for all of us.

  • bargainjargon on 28/05/2013 - 10:41
    +4

    Whether the store owner was right or wrong, he's not doing himself any favours for getting mad at customers. If he doesn't want to give out model numbers then that's up to him. But he may be losing more customers than he's gaining from having in store outbursts.

  • 2ndeffort on 28/05/2013 - 10:44
    +10

    Asking for a model number is akin to laughing in his face and saying thanks for the advice….sucker! You could have been a bit more subtle and perhaps asked which model this is and if comes in different colours/foot widths etc. He would probably have told you the model with no fuss. Either that or ask to have a look at the box where I am sure the number is prominent, or even look at the tag inside the shoe.

    That said there is no excuse for bad manners and poor service. In any game it is always easy to blame others for your lack of success, a bit harder to do something about it. Maybe this guy is under some stress from poor sales/financial pressure.

    I can see the benefit of being able to try shoes on and to buy from a trusted local shop. I'm not sure I would pay 100%+ for the privilege. I also run, maybe not as much as the other poster but i go through 2 or 3 pairs of shoes a year. I have 2 or 3 models I consistently run in (Nike free runs for shorter runs and Nike Lunar eclipse for longer). I've been wearing these 2 through various update models for 3 or 4 years. I know which size I take and I normally just buy the new models online.

    End of the day everyone has to weigh up the added benefit of a local shop. Does the benefit of being able to try on a pair of shoes and get some advice from a salesperson equate to a 100% markup? Maybe for some people yes, maybe for others no.

  • samfisher5986 on 28/05/2013 - 11:03
    +10

    Be honest with yourself, you were never going to buy the shoes, you are just telling yourself this so you don't feel bad for the guy.

    Small businesses that are no where close to online prices need to go bankrupt, however they don't need you tipping them over the edge if they wouldn't normally go bankrupt.

    Also was asking for the model really necessary? Most of the time you can tell by the stickers, branding etc… if you are that desperate scanning the barcode or other codes can be helpful when you google them.

    My rule is that if you are going into the store with the idea to look online for a cheaper price, refuse help from staff.

    That way the only downside is slight wear and tear on their merchandise, something that people do all the time anyway!

    • Agret on 28/05/2013 - 13:01

      Small businesses that are no where close to online prices need to go bankrupt

      It's pretty hard to compete with an online business when you need to pay rent / pay for inventory rather than just being an online store front that drop ships and doesn't need to pay for anything except hosting.

      • samfisher5986 on 28/05/2013 - 13:34

        Its ridiculously easy to compete with an online business if you are selling things people want to try on.

        If a shoe is $100 online then paying $120 in store is reasonable.

        The problem is its $100 online and $200 in store. (example)

        • Duff5000 on 06/06/2013 - 21:52
          +1

          It is often even worse.

          I got 2 pairs delivered from Amazon for about $130.
          One pair here was about $240.

        • voteoften on 07/06/2013 - 23:06

          What and you chose not to 'buy local'?

  • Azza on 28/05/2013 - 11:04
    -1

    I wrote an article about this recently. Is it wrong to buy online after visitng a local store? it seems like this is becoming more & more apparent.

  • 2ndeffort on 28/05/2013 - 11:05
    +5

    Another thought, I love how we have all been conditioned to feel sorry for the struggling shopkeepers to the point of being willing to pay over the odds for their goods and services. I agree it is tough on mum and dad shopkeepers but on the other hand nobody holds a gun to your head and forces you to go into retail. Similarly, most of these guys are probably being squeezed more by the high rents, bloated distribution models, government red tape and high cost of labour/utilites etc.

    That we as consumers choose not to prop up an inefficient and ridiculously bloated system should not, in my mind anyway, be any source of shame. Why are the end consumers to blame for this predicament? Why isn't the minister for small business being challenged on taxation, labour costs etc and why dont shopkeepers dump expensive distributors and instead carry more competitive brands. Believe me, if shops all deserted Westfield in droves, Lowy would drop his rents. End of the day, this problem exists because we, as a society allow it to. Changing our behavior and buying habits challenges the system and forces it to adapt. Unfortunately some people get caught up in the change.

    As I said above I think there is a degree of discretion involved at the coalface dealing with stressed shopkeepers but, on a principle perspective, I have absolutely a clear conscience buying online bargains instead of paying local shops. It is probably a bit rude to use their fitting rooms and ask their advice. I can normally find the info I want online without having to do this. In fact the effort of having to go to a specialty shop to try something on would, in most cases deter me from making the purchase anyway. I've been wanting to buy a new car for a few months but finding the time to test drive cars has kept me from doing it. I'll probably still be looking in 12 months time.

    • samfisher5986 on 28/05/2013 - 11:09
      +1

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is:

      If you start a shoe shop as a small business, you can import from anywhere you like.

      Bulk Discount = Lower then online

      Add in staff wages, store rent and GST.

      You should have a shoe that is slightly more expensive then online, what everyone wants.

      • 2ndeffort on 28/05/2013 - 11:58
        +4

        I think the point is that if you start a small business as a shoe retailer that you can't import from anywhere that you like. If you want to carry certain popular brands then you have to buy your stock from the person who holds the 'distribution rights' for Australia. This person possibly pays a hefty sum to the overseas parent company for this right but in return can charge a premium to wholesale stock to retailers.

        Because the competitive landscape for distribution rights is less restricted in some overseas markets (USA) the wholesale price of some of these popular branded goods is a lot less. The local shoe retailer in Australia may be paying more for their wholesale stock than I can buy as a consumer online from the US. Sucks for the local shoe retailer, probably sucks for the wholesaler as well because they have paid for the rights with the expectation of passing that cost on (plus profit) in wholesale sales to retailers, now they are being white-anted by other distributors. I assume that the restrictions on online sales from some brands is a reaction to stop this occurring and protect the value of their overseas distribution rights.

        Basically the whole thing is the failure of a geographically based distribution system to adapt to the digital economy. Eventually it will sort itself out but there will be pain along the way!

        • samfisher5986 on 28/05/2013 - 12:10
          +1

          Seems unlikely.

          If Kogan can sell imported iPads when Apple doesn't want them to then I think a shoe shop can do the same.

          Obviously you can't sell imported and be on good terms with a local distributor, the same way you can't sell coke and pepsi.

          Either way it seems pretty clear that companies are choosing to buy from local distributors and this will be their downfall.

      • Evil-Elmo on 28/05/2013 - 12:18
        +4

        Unfortunately Australia doesn't always allow parallel importing, so often importing from a cheaper 'unauthorised' source will result in trade mark infringement of the brand owner.

        • samfisher5986 on 28/05/2013 - 13:34

          So how do Kogan do it?

          How did JB Hi Fi do it?

          Should I go on?

        • hahaboy on 28/05/2013 - 14:56

          A lot of businesses you mentioned (kogan, JB etc) would have lawyer power to fight off these cases properly. The smaller stores who don't have this luxury end up not being able to sell 'unauthorised' brand goods and services.

        • samfisher5986 on 28/05/2013 - 15:13

          What is your source?

          Again if JB Hi-Fi and many other legitimate stores can do it then it must be ok.

          I have not heard of small business's trying similar tactics and being threatened.

        • Evil-Elmo on 28/05/2013 - 15:34
          +3

          It is not as straight forward as you are suggesting. There are other factors involved such as who the (Australian) trade mark owner is, whether the goods were applied with their consent.

          If you're really interested and want to read a reasonably recent case where it didn't go well for someone trying to parallel import in Australia, have a look here: http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCAF…

      • RichardRides on 28/05/2013 - 12:21
        +9

        There's also the distorted reciprocal delivery agreement that AusPost has in place with other countries (such as the UK postal system). In essence they agree to deliver for each other without penalty.

        This means that an OS reseller can do a deal with their local postal service for very cheap prices. But the actual cost of delivering in Australia is born by AusPost … yes, our taxes at work. Because of this postal agreement our taxes are supporting OS businesses to the detriment of local businesses.

        The classic example is the UK book chain Book Depository (now bought by Amazon). They deliver for free to Australia because they are paying a tiny price for postage to the UK Royal Mail. But AusPost ends up delivering to wherever in Australia. And the cost of delivery in a large country such as Australia is a lot more than a tiny country such as England.

        This is the same reason the UK cycling sites can deliver so cheaply to Australia. Even though http://www.bagsinmotion.com.au/ are an Australian online business we still have to compete in a distorted market. If you have a physical presence the costs are even higher.

        (to be clear, trying hard not to complain … as others have stated, we know how it works, we do our best to compete and there's many ways to compete that don't just involve price!).

        • hahaboy on 28/05/2013 - 15:01
          +2

          Some interesting information I didn't know :)

          You say that price isn't the only way to compete. In my opinion, although that is true and service and product quality can come into play, i think price is often the biggest determinant. That should be especially clear given you are writing on an Australian site dedicated to finding bargains.

        • chiefbodge on 28/05/2013 - 18:27
          +3

          What you are saying is essentially right but to suggest that our taxes are subsidising the postage of overseas retailers is wrong. Australia Post makes a profit (281 million in 2011-2012) so it doesn't cost the government anything and they get money from Australia Post. What is the case though is we pay expensive domestic and international postage to subsidise incoming parcels.

        • RichardRides on 28/05/2013 - 18:58

          Semantics maybe, but if AusPost charged OS retailers the same they charge local retailers then profit (returned as a dividend to the Aust Government) would be even higher than the $281m … it's definitely costing Australian taxpayers.

          Totally agree that we pay expensive domestic and international postage to subsidise incoming parcels.

        • leiiv on 28/05/2013 - 22:28
          +1

          Are you sure about this? Then why didn't austpost charge us less for delivering stuff to UK or other countries? I.e. do the same thing as other countries's postal service.

        • RichardRides on 28/05/2013 - 23:06
          +1

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union explains it.

          Auspost can charge want they want. And they keep that $. Local market forces dictate the price, not the true cost of delivery.

          The flip side is that the Royal Mail (UK) can also charge what they want. With increased competition in the UK they offer cheap international postage to big postal service users. Royal Mail is not a monopoly, but they are obliged to deliver the Universal Service Obligation (http://www.royalmailgroup.com/about-us/regulation/how-were-r…).

  • [Deactivated] on 28/05/2013 - 11:36
    +7

    I can think of a second reason to ask for the model. To compare online where they rate on the quality scale to other shoes.

    Another reason is to check he's not charging 3x times what another small retailer is. i.e. If he's charging $10-$30 more that's one thing. If it's $100-$150 more (for shoes) that's another.

    For example: I recently bought skateboards for my kids. I spent probably two hours over two visits, bending the guy's ear asking every question I could think of. But he had no other customers, so he wasn't "losing out". I told him I wanted to check online opinion of the models before buying.

    I left, went online, found what he said was accurate and returned a week later and bought two. He had no idea if I'd come back or not. Because he didn't abuse me - I did.

    HOWEVER… If he had acted like the guy in the shoe store - in the same way people don't mind paying more for service - they WILL also pay more (somewhere else) to avoid a confrontational shop assistant - even if his prices were cheaper.

    • samfisher5986 on 28/05/2013 - 11:39

      Did your kids have a test ride on the skateboards?

      If not then I don't think it counts.

      The main problem is wear and tear and maintenance on the shoes after you have tried them on and walked around etc.

      I guarantee you no salesman will get angry if you ask a few questions about a shoe and then leave.

  • cruise control on 28/05/2013 - 12:23
    +2

    That's pretty poor service in my view. There's nothing wrong with asking for the model - it could be for a range of reasons, not just looking at competitive prices.
    Then again, there's nothing wrong with comparing prices as a consumer, since you want the best bang for your buck. I'd drop it and go to another store

  • ev3nfl0w on 28/05/2013 - 12:59
    +4

    How long did he spend time with you?
    Did you have any intention of purchasing from that store or were you there to just try them out before purchasing them online?
    If you felt guilty, why didn't you just buy from him?
    What was the purpose of asking for the model number?
    How much more expensive were his prices compared to other stores / online?

    Although I would not have given you the same verbal abuse as that shop owner did in front of you, I sure as hell would have given you an earful once you left the shop for doing what you did.

    Compensation? Why not just pay a bit more and help the bloke out?

    What a load of crock.

  • norimono on 28/05/2013 - 13:55
    +5

    He has the right to decline to give the model number. He can politely state the reasons without ranting.

    Declining to give out the model number won't stop showrooming though.

    • cloudy on 29/05/2013 - 08:30
      -1

      He can politely state the reasons why he won't give it, or he can do what he did again and again till pricks stop using and abusing bricks and mortar stores and left to hang in shame.

      One angle the store owner has is the OP is no different from a theif who steals. If the shoes cost $50, sells for $100, he has a margin of $50 to cover costs and profit. If someone steals his shoes, he loses $50 ini cost, if someone doesn't buy and just uses him to get it online he loses $50 in gross profit.

      So in essence, the result is the same, small business gets angry. Can't blame him.

      • zhenjie on 30/05/2013 - 00:30
        +2

        That's a retarded comparison. The owner still has the goods on hand and has not lost out on the base price. Don't bring some far fetched gross profit loss hypothetical into it

  • SydStrand on 28/05/2013 - 14:08

    If I took up a guy's time, tried on his stock, the least I can do is make the purchase, even if it's a little more expensive than shopping online.. Yes, you're not obligated to buy, but showrooming is a big problem for local stores now that window shopping outside a large chain is always going to be a minefield. I wouldn't do what you did without intending to make a purchase.

  • [Deactivated] on 28/05/2013 - 15:31
    +3

    OP had no intention on buying. Window shop with your eyes, not your feet next time.

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