$500 fine for littering even though I didn't litter

rickmagnum on 04/03/2016 - 17:06

Hi all,

Thanks for you guys who decide to read through all of this..

Have just received a $500 fine in the mail from the council for littering. Was news to me as I wasn't aware of any littering I had done. According to the fine there were some bags of rubbish left across the road from my house sitting in a pile of verge collection rubbish that the council had themselves placed there.
The fine stated that the bags were found on a Tuesday afternoon and inside the bags was something with my wife's name on it and an aerosol can.
Now my normal bin day is a Friday and every other day of the week the bins are inside my garage. I thought back to the previous week and I remember placing the bins out late Thursday night and then leaving Friday morning around 8:15 to take the kids to school. I noticed the bin laying on my verge, not unusual from our rubbish collectors, and empty. I just assumed that the rubbish truck had already been but now it leads me to believe that someone had either gone through my bins looking for something and dumped them or thought it would be a funny idea to chuck my rubbish in a pile of other rubbish? Either way I've got no idea of what was trying to be achieved.

It unfortunately isn't my first run in with the council about littering, about a year or 2 ago they had found a bunch of items dropped in the middle of a construction site and a school letter with my sons name on it which I couldn't explain.

Nobody from the council came over to speak to me about it, just had the fine in the mail.

I rang them today and spoke to the ranger who fined me and she was adamant that we did it and adamant that it was us last time too refusing to hear me out. The circumstances that it has all happened doesn't seem to work well in my favor at all, but surely they could take into consideration what person would dump rubbish across the road from where they live seeing their collection day had just passed and was only another few days until their next.

I think I have a pretty good relationship with my neighbors, never had any issues with them. The only things in the street we have had is solar lights go missing, our letterbox being knocked over, some mail going missing and kids down the street doing knocks and runs or trying to sell us rocks for a supposed charity. So I'm pretty sure they couldn't have done it.

The only options I have are to touch my toes and pay the thing or appeal it in a court.

Has anyone else had anything like this happen to them at all, how can I fight this?

Cheers

Home & Garden

Comments

      • Hirolol on 07/03/2016 - 12:12

        Damn :/

  • garetz on 06/03/2016 - 18:05
    +6

    This is why you always shred your mail, never leave anything in garbage with your name or address on it. Then overzealous council idiots cant fine you for other peoples doing stupid shit.

    • rickmagnum on 06/03/2016 - 18:54
      +1

      My wife is usually pretty good and rips stuff up but looks like a shredder may be a good option too.

  • MetalPhreak on 06/03/2016 - 20:31
    +2

    Tell them you are electing to take it to court.

    They'll never actually go through with it (unless you are some kind of serious nuisance who keeps doing something). Too much time & money to get $500 back.

    Even if it does, the evidence they have against you is purely circumstantial. There are plenty of explanations for how something with your name on it ended up in those bags. Unless they have video footage of you doing it, they are unlikely to get any favourable result from court. It's all just a game of smoke, mirrors, and bullying.

  • aussieprepper on 06/03/2016 - 20:49

    Any chance you can install a sensor light or CCTV?

  • sockpuppy on 06/03/2016 - 21:06

    Sorry it appear obvious that since this is the second time it happened, somebody very local doesn't like you and is making trouble. The interesting test is how the ranger was informed about this dumping of rubbish ? Was he/she just randomly driving around looking for rubbish ? I would guess they were tipped off by the either the person who dumped your rubbish or had a hand in instigating the tip off.

  • SteveOh on 07/03/2016 - 10:52

    I just had another thought. Check Ozbargain for deals on video security cameras! Mount them in a concealed area of your house where they have a good view of your rubbish bins. Then, when you catch the council worker or ranger or whatever its called, going through your bin and then charging you for dumping rubbish you'll not only be able to get her fired you'll have evidence to support your claim for compensation from the Council based on harassment :-)

  • nickj on 07/03/2016 - 12:14
    +1

    It seems to me that enough stuff has happened that you should consider if there is malicious intent, rather than just unintentional accidents. (e.g. your mail found twice? and both times reported to the council?).

    It sucks that you have to modify your behaviour because of someone else's actions, but to protect yourself you should:

    1) Current problem: Take the fine to court. Tell the judge exactly what you told us.
    2) Prevention: Get a shredder, and pay extra for cross cut. ~ $100 from OfficeWorks. Shred anything that can be linked to your household.
    3) Identification: Get a CCTV camera. Review it when the next anti-social thing happens, see if you can identify who is responsible. Don't be afraid to take it to the police.
    4) Discouragement: Bonus points for a sign that says "beware of the dog" with a picture of angry-looking German Sheppard showing its teeth. Bonus points for a motion-activated light sensor. If it is malicious, whoever is doing this is a coward as they're primarily operating at night from the sounds of it, so they're afraid of being exposed or caught.

  • Zondor on 07/03/2016 - 12:16
    +1

    Sounds like the ranger was falling short of their quota this month…

  • WonderboyJim on 07/03/2016 - 12:52
    +11

    Im a bit of a latcomer to this party but this may help….

    I recently had an issue where I put out a chest of drawers on my nature strip thinking somebody may want it. Nobody took it after a couple of days and it got rained on so I brought it back in to smash for firewood.
    Couple of weeks later I get a letter from council saying they have arranged a hard waste collection for my rubbish.
    I called up the council and used a little artistic license to explain that it was out "left for somebody to collect" . The council woman was incredibly abrupt and rather unpleasant. Bottom line she couldnt (or wouldnt) cancel the pickup and also couldnt tell me when the collection would be and that it may have already happened so I couldnt even add to the pile and use this as one of my two yearly collections. Grrr

    Now for the tip……

    I posted to the council Facebook page. Explained the situation in simple terms , got messaged by somebody , had a little chat , everything got sorted out in a couple of days.

    The person you have spoken to at the council may have been doing that job for long enough to no longer care about "customers" , whoever is running their FB page absolutely understands "customers" and is likely a higher paygrade with some extra abilities to fix the issue.

    Since this happened I have also had an issue with a Power provider and after having no joy took it to twitter where the issue was resolved very quickly. :)

    • DrDollar on 07/03/2016 - 21:27
      +4

      Great advice. This absolutely works - Use social media to your advantage, putting things in front of the public eye makes things difficult for those you are dealing with.

      The council/vendor/retailer is fearful that the situation may become bigger than it is and cause them more harm than good if they decided to fine you.

      Explain your situation as impartially and diplomatically as possible in as fewer words as possible and let us know how you go, if you go ahead with the advice above.

  • chumlee on 07/03/2016 - 18:41
    +1

    OP if it was me I would write to council and advise them you will defend the charge/fine in Magistrates court and to prepare for your case you require photos/footage of the bags and also their full contents.

    Yes your wife's details may have been in the rubbish but what else was in their that could belong to someone else. Maybe the just couldn't identity who the other stuff belongs to. Maybe the piece of paper with your wife's name on it blew out of your rubbish bin one day and someone picked it up etc.

    It's important to know what else is in the bags.

  • CacheHunter on 07/03/2016 - 19:26
    +1

    The last few houses where I live, the wheelie bin trucks have all regularly spilled base of rubbish from time to time (this is why I go to the trouble of bagging my rubbish using shopping bags instead of putting it straight in the wheelie bin). Surprisingly, whenever I've complained to council, they never do anything, even though spilling rubbish as they empty bins is littering and they should be fining themselves or the rubbish truck driver.
    If a couple of bags fell onto the road, it wouldn't be unusual for a passing neighbour to pick them up and place them neatly on the kerb, rather than leave on the road where they would get run over and the contents scattered by passing cars. If this has happened to you, maybe one of your neighbours or someone that regularly walks past your home remembers picking up some bags of rubbish that had been spilled and leaving them on the kerb?

  • alxr0101 on 07/03/2016 - 21:14

    About all that ranger can claim factually is that they found rubbish with material containing your name.

    You may have to seek legal advice to challenge however it doesn't appear to be evidence at all that you dumped it illegally.

  • clemoposs on 07/03/2016 - 22:58
    +5

    I've been a policeman for a gazillion years (39) and recently retired. I would advise this. Either you are a liar and the details found in the rubbish support the contention that you are guilty or you are innocent in which case you must argue your case. The council should not have fined you without interviewing you. That is unprofessional and incomprehensible. I suggest you don't pay the fine. You will get a subpoena and you should then go to court and give your version of events. The council will come up short in that the local by laws officers did not interview you and therefore their only evidence is what they found. This is their mistake. In Detective School I was taught that failure to search (for evidence)is failure to find (and that includes an interview). The local (Magistrate's Court) is required to make a decision based on evidence that is 'beyond reasonable doubt', which if extrapolated to a percentage would arguably be about 90%. This would be un-achievable as the Council officers did not get your side of the story and you have a good argument to counter what they do have in evidence (visa vie the rubbish itself). Provided you can stick to your reasonable story under cross examination the best they can achieve is perhaps a balance of probability, which is not sufficient for the test at that court level.

    Have fun demolishing the local Government.

    Clem.

    • [Deactivated] on 08/03/2016 - 08:47

      Your 'need to interview' argument is wrong. If you are flashed by a speed camera you don't get interviewed by the local cop. You get a fine in the post. Littering is the same principle.
      Your advice not to pay the fine is also wrong. That way the fine will just get bigger.
      There is a proper way to contest fines and ignoring it is not one of them.
      The dispute methods differ from state to state, but generally you have a choice of an internal review or a day in court.

      • Amaris on 08/03/2016 - 13:12
        -1

        To use your argument, littering is the same principle if they have a pic of you dumping. Even in a speeding fine you get a chance to be 'interviewed' by sending a letter explaining why you were speeding or nominating someone else as the driver.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/03/2016 - 11:19

          You have exactly the same opportunity with a littering fine. You name the other person (if you know who it was), and sign a stat dec. Exactly the same as with speeding.

      • AlanHB on 08/03/2016 - 13:16

        Your comparison is flawed because the speed camera uneqivocally captures someone in your car committing an offence.

        In this case it appears the only link to the TS was a letter bearing his name. There are a variety of reasons as to why this could be, and alone does not satisfy me that the TS committed an offence, or that someone used TS's property to commit an offence.

      • clemoposs on 11/03/2016 - 08:27
        -1

        No actually my argument is correct. You can write in and try a Stat Dec of course but if that fails my argument and advice is sound. The problem may be your comprehension.

  • isthisreally_me on 08/03/2016 - 09:11

    I dont know, something sounds odd. you got charged with littering once before and now somehow miraculously rubbish with your name again gets found where its not supposed to be? I think youll have a hard time fighting this.

  • blitz on 08/03/2016 - 12:52
    +2

    Tell them the sign said "Fine for littering" and you agreed with it. :)

  • Pricebeat on 08/03/2016 - 15:10

    I never leave my name or address on any letters I throw in the bin.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/03/2016 - 15:56

    I think these kids have solved Australia's problems!

    kids down the street doing knocks and runs or trying to sell us rocks for a supposed charity

    Find rocks
    Sell rocks
    Profit $$$$$$$$$

  • eKPardesi on 08/03/2016 - 16:13

    i would vote for a cctv camera. during twice yearly white goods collection,
    I have footage of truck and cars casually stopping by to dump their stuff (old windows, carpets and the like) outside my house.

  • luminair on 08/03/2016 - 19:25

    Be careful of identity theft, always shred your confidential mails!

  • rickmagnum on 29/03/2016 - 19:15
    +4

    Hi All, for anyone still following or interested, after contacting the local Councillor and the council itself the fine was officially withdrawn today. Thanks for everyone who read and offered advice, was much appreciated.
    We've taken precautions by getting a document shredder, extra lighting at the front and a camera. Also don't put the bins out at night any more.
    It's been a stressful few weeks so I'm happy to move past this.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/03/2016 - 08:24

      Good result-well done.

    • John Dough on 05/06/2016 - 07:48

      Thanks for letting us know, good outcome!

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