Hello everyone
Long story short, I think I have purchased a phone which was stolen. It's a brand new sealed iPhone. It was on Gumtree.
If I report it to the police or the mobile company and after checking if it comes out to be stolen will I get my money back?
What should I do? I don't want to keep the phone but obviously want my money back too.
What is the best way to do it?
Where can I check that it's stolen. I have the imei number
I've checked… Its unblocked. Does it mean it's not stolen?
Not neccessarily. That doesn't mean it won't be reported 'stolen' later either.
Just a heads up - carriers in Australia have the ability to block IMEI use from all carriers in Australia. Ie. If it is from Optus and is reported stolen and they block it's use, it would stop you using it with Vodafone (for instance).
Source - work for a carrier and have worked with fraud teams.
Edit: also if it is stolen, check the Gumtree buyer protections, other than that it is unlikely you would get money back unless the seller agrees :(
What makes you think it's stolen?
The seller was quite suspicious. He didn't want to give me the tax invoice and said that he wants to claim tax through it although all the prices on the receipt were 00.00 dollars which means it was a contract phone. Later when I was about to leave I asked him how is he going to claim tax return on it, he said he wasn't going to do it. It had the name of a female person on the receipt. He gave me the wrong address for his home and then came walking to that address to get me.
I'm not saying its definitely stolen. I just want to know if there is a way to find out. And if I report it to the police, will I get my money back?
High chance he's gonna claim that he lost the phone through insurance and get a new one, after that the imei on the phone that you just bought will be blocked. 00.00 is a contract phone.
If it is an Optus phone then chances are even higher as they push insurance on new phones
@click40: No they won't. You can try but they just don't have the time. What I would do if I was you is ring Optus, tell them that you have purchased the phone and see what they say. But some people just seem suss but it all ends out to be legit, hopefully it will be ok
Due to privacy they wont tell him anything about the phone likely as his name wont be on that phone purchase on the sales records.
This seems like a seemingly low % play though. When it gets blocked the buyer can complain. At some point the insurance will be hearing two stories - Buyer will say they bought it legitimately, and the Seller will say it was stolen. They will also have the details and identities of both parties which to me would be a deal killer for someone looking to commit insurance fraud.
@click40: i think they have more important things to worry about than your phone, you bought off a stranger at a bogus address, with no receipt.
@click40: It's not illegal for him to sell the phone to you. What would be illegal would be to report that it was stolen after he sold it to you. If he does that and your phone stops working, then you should report it to the police. But until then, I'd say you're fine.
Why did you buy it if all of that happened?
I only thought about all that when I was coming back home
@click40: | He gave me the wrong address for his home and then came walking to that address to get me.
So he gave you a bogus address, met you at this bogus address, then took you to his house?
Plus the seller is selling another different colour iPhone brand new sealed on Gumtree.
Assume that it is stolen.
Now that you have that, you can use this second ad on Gumtree as a means to contact him.
Don't tell him you are the same person.
And use this opportunity to get his real First Name, Surname, Phone Number, and Address.
And make sure you leave CLEAR EVIDENCE that you withdrew money from your Bank Account solely for the purpose of that transaction.
ie/ If it costs $900 for that transaction, print out your Bank Invoice or Receipt where you withdrew $900 exactly.
Then see if you can ask for a refund. If he (likely) disagrees, then you know it is a scam.
Contact the police and submit your evidence.
OR
Store everything for safe keeping, and (risk) use the phone.
If the device works without any problems, you know its all good.
But if in the future your phone gets blocked (by Optus?), then you know he pulled an Insurance Fraud on you.
Contact the police asap.
And don't settle for a warning.
Have the police arrest/question him, and summon him to a court hearing.
Make it so that he will be pay you back, and also face big charges from Optus/Law Joe.
His girlfriend will also have to pay a big fine, and face the charges, because ultimately she made the fraudulent insurance claim.
Good luck on whatever route you take.
(you can buy a cheap Xiaomi Redmi Note 3 -band-28- while you're here)
@Kangal: I think confronting him is a bad idea. He'd likely clam up and just leave if he sees the same person again. Either because he's guilty or it's damn creepy if someone you've sold to on Gumtree pretends to be someone else and arranges another meeting. Also, with the number of fakes out there, accepting a refund is a bit dodgy in itself. I'd get someone else to help you get the details as a back up, if you decide to go that way. Cops may or may not be interested, depends how you approach them.
@shadako:
Yeah, well I thought that would've been obvious.
Click just needs retrieve the perp's details without meeting him.
He can do it online. Or by phone.
Just depends on how resourceful click is.
Otherwise he can explain this situation to a friend of his.
And have that friend do the meet up and not buy.
But use it as an opportunity to get the preps details.
I should also say that this route could be dangerous.
And if click's not upto it, he should stand by and learn a valuable lesson.
It's a good idea to get cops involved, even if the police aren't interested.
It would at least alleviate the regret/thought in his mind, if he does not.
@Kangal: Not bad advice overall, but I had a little giggle at making the police question and arrest him and pretending he will receive a big fine. You obviously have not had much interaction with the criminal justice system.
All I know is, as soon as you tell the police, they put on sunglasses and a loud music starts to play…
Claim tax need to show handset but I believe for iPhone, you can show different Phone same model, see the TRS officer are too busy to check match the imei or serial number. There are long queu lines with some Chinese have like a metre long times two, invoice each. Even with camera, when the receipt and box has word canon they just nod and process without asked to open or check model.
As long you don't claim galaxy tablet receipt and showing them iPhone for example.
You knew it was stolen, greed got the better of you.
Not going to comment on the rest of it but I've had several people give me a nearby address and then direct me from there.
Seeing nobody had used it, just keep it
The phone can get blocked so yeah
I think you should have paid the higher amount for a genuine phone with warranty. How much was your saving?
300aud may be more. It's a 32gb iPhone 7 plus a screen protector and 2 phone cases purchased from optus, one of them was for 100aud alone
You had me at screen protector. Now lets go around the block of toilets and do the deal.
It's too bright, can't we wait until dark?
Besides, I don't need to wee yet ; )
I'll just put it out there that Apple charge $45 for a tempered glass screen protector & "application". I was in store when 2 people purchased them. Couldn't believe the price.
If it seems to good to be true then it generally is.
These days you could easily video record the whole episode without them even knowing. That's the best sort of evidence to be had down the track.
Ads on gumtree can't be verified and another mobile number could be easily used unrelated to them. Plus it's your version of events versus theirs.
Simple video recording backs up your story completely.
In many states it's illegal to record a private conversation without the consent of all parties to the conversation though.
@jenkemjunkie: I believe the laws arent quite that straight forward. If its reasonable to assume that it is a private conversation, whether in a private or public place then 2 party consent is required in all but NT, QLD and VIC. At least that is my understanding.
You can record a private conversation you are a party to in a public area without consent.
Your assumption of hoping your conversation remains private has no merit in law if you decided to conduct this conversation in a public area. The location and physical environment in which the conversation took place will be of great significance in deciding what the parties expected. If you expect your conversation to remain private if you are meeting on a footpath or in a coffee shop then good luck arguing the fact.
By all means though…show me the laws that say otherwise.
Even if the recording was deemed illegal it can still be admissible as evidence.
Beware I think i read somewhere maybe whirlpool forum, yes this is real.
they paid insurance and then sell the phone, later few weeks or months claim stolen or lost, get the new phone. And of course one day you wake up with a non working phone. Not sure what you can do at that stage to recover the phone but for sure it will be Alot of hassle trouble stress sweat and tears..
Very scary indeed can happen to anyone.
Wait don't cry now still there is chance everything are legit.
The only use of a imei blocked phone is to give it to someone overseas. It will work there.
U sure about that? As I bought it as a gift for my dad who lives overseas.
100% sure. The blocking register only applies within Australia.
source: work in telecom
Yes, but what if the Original Owner goes to Apple instead?
Apple can actually block and brick the device remotely.
It won't work, even as an MP3 Player.
@cheesecactus:
Hmmm… yeah, you're right I forgot about that.
I still think (know!) Apple can block and brick the iPhone.
As long as the iPhone is connected to the internet (and so Apple's Services in the iPhone's background is talking with their Servers), and that the technicians at Apple know which specific device code/connection…
…they can send the termination order.
However, that is not their course of action.
And Apple won't ever take such course of action, unless it was a prototype sitting in a bar ; )
Bingo. They certainly could if they wanted to, but if they started doing that, just too much effort on their part.
If it's for overseas, no need to worry mate unless your dad some to Australia.
police or Insurance company can not do anything internationally for a phone.
i am also 100% sure.
@hashtagbargain: Does that also mean you can buy an IMEI blocked phone from America and it'll work in Australia?
No, once an IMEI block is applied, the phone is bricked. Rendered useless in any country. The phone must nto be switched on until overseas.
It also does not matter what network you purchased the phone on. I.E. If it's from Telstra and you put a voda sim on it and telstra blocked it, the block will still apply from Voda. At least this was how it worked when I used to manage a phone store many years ago.
@Crowdedthehouse: Hey crowded the house, imei refers to the unique number of the communications chipset within a phone. This means that even if an imei is blocked, only the mobile connectivity part of the device is affected - the rest works fine. The reason why apple was able to remote wipe their phone was because it was "theirs" and obviously also because prototypes have way more security.
There is no way apple would remote disable a phone (atleast without a warrant).
Source: I've handled many imei blocked devices and have studied their behaviour.
There should be no issue if you have some paperwork, even if its just the activation from the provider (contract receipt with null item cost). Thats the exact reason why they issue those receipts in the first place.
If no paperwork, then yes you are at gods mercy. And its always fishy when there is no paperwork as part of a sale of a new item…
would love to see the whirlpool thread if so
https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2456242
Not current I know but too lazy to search again you can continue my effort…
I would suggest registering it on the PPSR: https://www.ppsr.gov.au
That'll verify your rights to posession, and a record of the serial / IMEI. That way, if you ever get blocked for whatever reason you have a government record of your purchase on your side.
Problem is, an IMEI can only be unblocked by the 'original lawful owner' as per http://www.lost.amta.org.au/pages/security-tips (point 3)
So really, you need to get the original contract provider - Optus/Telstra/Vodafone etc, the only one that is able to block via IMEI, and get them to move that IMEI to your account somehow. Perhaps the details of any insurance contract connected too. Problem is that this will probably require ID from the original signatory, that you don't have.
Hmmmm…. that is actually VERY interesting.
What if the OP does go to the telecom that provided the handset?
Even if they do NOTHING, they will have a record of the call.
So…
…if the original buyers do try and commit insurance fraud, the telecom provider will stop and think twice.
Hell, the carrier (Optus?) could even CALL click40 in case that does happen.
It would be in their best interest to do so.
So click40 can even agree to provide his details to (Optus?) and even meet in one of their offices, to display he is being genuine, and show proof of purchase by a Bank Withdrawal receipt.
In such a case, the carrier could forward the IMEI to click40, and stop the scammers from profiting.
It's a long shot, but what do you have to lose?
The PPSR is not a register of ownership. It does not verify ownership. It is a register that shows that the public who has a security right over property so that unsuspecting buyers don't accidentally purchase property (say a car) that has been used as security for a loan. Registering on the PPSR will have no effect as the OP has no security rights nor does anyone else.
For iphone it may be possible to change the imei code. Hence, apple's attempts at remotely rendering your phone useless will be unsuccessful.
Although, if possible it'd void the warranty and be considered illegal in the eyes of apple. However, if your phone was to be remotely locked apple won't help so screw them.
Apple has an official website for these kind of checks, but am sure it can be done via the chat as well:
https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT204073 -> how to find IMEI
https://www.icloud.com/activationlock/ -> check if its stolen/locked
If it's on contract I don't think legally they even own the phone till the entire contract period is up. So I guess how can one really sell what is not theirs?
Also if they stop paying the contract the phone could get blocked I would assume, that is if they have not already done an insurance claim.
Nah they own it. You have bought it the day you take it, you owe them money after that. Trust me they don't want a used phone back
If all else fails, you can always send a power surge into the device and exchange it at an apple store overseas. The local store might do an imei check to see if its stolen.
I had a dead iPhone exchanged when i was in HK (some hardware issue).
But considering you have the invoice (assuming its the correct invoice, you can send this to the IMEI blocking organisation to have blocking removed locally).
Hope its pans out for you, sux to be out $$.
No he doesn't have the invoice. And it's not stolen phone at least now. But don't know when the scammer will report it as stolen, maybe one month later.
Isn't it also weird that the phone was provided sealed if it was stolen? Or is that not surprising even if the phone was stolen?
Flip it? ;-) in all seriousness though, sorry about the mishap op, hope you find an agreeable resolution.
decoy that seller with your intent to buy another phone, to extract any personal details from the seller.
contact optus, to let them know your intention of notifying police and returning the phone. organise how it may be returned to the owner.
then report to the police. police can request for the user's gumtree details using ip address associated with his username, esp if an insurance claim be involved later on.
then, do the right thing. bite the bullet, return the phone to the rightful owner. karma.
best of luck.
Forget it. The police are too busy catching drivers doing 72 in a 70 zone.
Please leave a message after the beep.
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP.
This brings them revenue. In the case of the OP, it wont.
Its sad
Hi mate,
Contact gumtree help support and ask them to provide the advertisements details and then contact police to explain your situation. If police are happy to help then most probably you will get your money back.. cheers and best of luck
So far it's a legitimate but dodgy exchange. Police won't care. The $300 the OP might out of pocket for won't get a task force anytime soon. If the police had work experience kids then you might have a chance something could be done.
this guy is right, this is priority none right now, considering the fact that there is way more horrendous crimes that could be committed out there.
Damn everyone is out to fleece you on Gumtree. Good luck OP that you can get this resolved.
I purchased a sealed iPhone 7 on eBay a couple of weeks ago, it was part of an Optus plan. Before buying I contacted Optus. I asked them about owners blocking imei and the rights of the new owner (me). They told me that IMEIs can only be blocked and unblocked by the original purchasers even if you have the original owners proof of purchase/contract. Optus will not help you.
Also Optus do not block imeis if contracts go unpaid but they will block imeis if a phone was obtained through fraud.
So you still went ahead with the purchase even with that risk?
Yes. I got proof of ownership plus made the decision based on the fact that she was over 50 and I felt it was worth the risk.
Are you sure its real?
There are heaps of fakes on aliexpress, dhgate…
I rekon this is a valid explanation.
Nah, ull be just fine. Fake address is very common, i dont give out my address when i sell something on gumtree. He wants to keep the receipt thats fine, u just need to see the receipt and match the serial number, if possible just take a pic of the receipt. I sell and buy alot of things from gumtree, only small amount of ppl are dodgy,, the rest are fine,
Or if the phone still sealed, let me buy it off u :) trust me, u will be just fine.
Hippies, that's a great offer. OP, I'd take hippies up on it so you can sleep at night.
It's not that difficult to reseal a box. Maybe there's no phone inside!
Did you get a receipt from the seller saying he sold it to you?
You will have no problems for the first month or so…as soon as he doesn't pay his bill.
Chat with Optus and explain your concerns and make sure you save a copy of the Chat session including the date.
Optus don't condone Insurance fraud or want to lose money from dodgy people putting phones on contracts to sell.
What ever you do be careful not to add to possible problems by signing up to 12th contract etc.
Good luck.
it will be out of Australia next week. its just that I wanted it to go to the rightful owner, but like everyone above said that police is too busy to help me out with my money, than what else can i do.
Hey op, you can monitor if the phones imei has been blocked with this website:
Even if it comes up as blocked here, it will continue to work outside Australia.
You should not care if it is stolen. You bought it. if it works, no dramas!
Yeah, like some one said earlier, just t take it overseas and it'll work like a charm, can even sell it for a profit in some cases.
I still wouldn't buy expensive things on gumtree. A $300 phone maybe, an iPhone? Nah…
Hey OP,
this has happened to me before as well. I put a notice out here: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/259231
Having all the contact details of the person wont really make a difference (still get it though!) to your circumstance in that the service provider tend to just take the details but will not unblock the phone once its reported stolen and is apparently a very cumbersome process in terms of paperwork for them; from their perspective they have lost out on revenue on the phone and technically should take the phone off you (as it is still theirs).
Perhaps now that you know it is an Optus phone see if you can strike a deal as you haven't even opened it. Worst case scenario, if the IMEI is going to get blocked you might be better of selling it to someone in a different country (IMEI block will only apply in AUS) or switching to certain providers (PM me if you want to know which one).
It's sad that some people try to make a quick buck with no consideration for others. I hope you have the best outcome on this!
*Also just read that it's for your dad overseas - should be fine then! I've tried my phone in other countries when travelling - no issues at all.
Check the imei.