Mods Should Be Deleting Racist Comments and Banning Repeat Offenders

cpho on 30/08/2020 - 14:03

I've noticed an increased racist sentiment in posts where Asian products are being sold. Most of the time the comments are so casually racist that the person doesn't even realise they're being racist.

While mods are usually on the lookout for personal attacks or explicitly offensive comments, I think it's just as important to be removing comments which are racist.

If we continue to laugh at these
jokes and upvote them and deem them humorous then the whole OzBargain community becomes part of the problem that is racism. If we deny that comments are racist, then we basically say that this is acceptable behaviour, which it’s actually not. People may think it’s a harmless joke in the name of fun, but the reality is casual racism can have grave effects.

I think casually racists comments should be deleted by mods, and repeat offenders should have their accounts banned.

From now, I will be actively reporting all comments I see which are racist. I hope you will all do the same.

Site Discussion

closed Comments

  • Moderatorneil on 30/08/2020 - 14:15

    Mods Should Be ARE & ALWAYS HAVE BEEN Deleting Racist Comments and Banning Repeat Offenders

    Please continue to use the report link. There are 100,000+ comments a month and reporting comments and posts ensures we are aware.

    However, let's be clear that users are free to criticise

    • governments including Australia or the Chinese government.
    • companies, manufacturing, of certain products

    It's not OK to criticise a person or group of persons. It's important not to conflate these things.

    • cpho on 30/08/2020 - 14:23
      +1

      Thanks Neil. It's good to hear it reaffirmed from you.

      • GrueHunter on 30/08/2020 - 15:04
        +17

        I've read this three times and I have no f'n idea what you're talking about

        • cwongtech on 30/08/2020 - 15:37
          +2

          I've read this three times and I have no f'n idea what you're talking about

          Ban discrimination, if it's based on factors outside an individual's choice.
          I.e. you're born either a male or female, or you're born in a particular country - these factors can't be criticised, they weren't that person's choice

          But if you choose to go door knocking because you're a Mormon..

          • ozhunter on 30/08/2020 - 15:43

            @cwongtech:

            But if you choose to go door knocking because you're a Mormon..

            Lol. But there are some things that are seemingly debatable whether they have a choice.

          • Almost Banned on 30/08/2020 - 17:41
            +1

            @cwongtech: Is it a choice to identify as a different gender to your biology?
            Is it a choice to act on sexual attraction to the same sex?
            Is it a choice to be overweight?
            Would it then be ok to discriminate on any of the above?

            • screensaver on 30/08/2020 - 19:38

              @Almost Banned: well clearly its their biology to said identify
              why should they not act if you have the right to act

    • ozhunter on 30/08/2020 - 15:37
      -3

      I'd hope this train of thought applies to discussions about religion.

  • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:08
    +12

    You are only worried about comments that are directed at a certain race? That's racist.

    • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:22
      +5

      Might need a snow plow to help me with all these snowflakes I'm collecting soon.

      • JimmyF on 30/08/2020 - 16:04
        +1

        This place has turned into ozsnowflakes for sure!

  • timthetoolman on 30/08/2020 - 14:10
    +6

    Can we get some examples please?

    • Forfiet on 30/08/2020 - 14:22
      -7

      Possibly referring to people who post China centric remarks in posts for facemasks(usually made in PRC) and for stores such as banggood.etc

      Most of these comments get 'moderated' by the community via a neg wave(and this collapsed or hidden) as they are usually single minded and repeated mindlessly by only a select few people(Would be nice for them to have a centric thread for them to vent in)….

      • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:23
        +18

        Are you suggesting that face masks made to no standards whatsoever are a good idea?

        • Forfiet on 30/08/2020 - 14:26

          But that is a valid argument right? Then in my opinion thats fine and not what I was referring to….

          • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:34
            +14

            @Forfiet: What is not a valid argument then? It's simply a fact that products coming from China, from China run companies, have, in general, lower standards applied to them. It has nothing to do with the Chinese people themselves, but the regulatory standards of the country, and the government who makes and enforces them.

            • Forfiet on 30/08/2020 - 15:26

              @brendanm: And I said that is a valid argument, did you think I was being sarcastic? Judging a product by the merit of quality or standards is fine in its own right.

              Having a bash on a poster of deal, because banggood had a item they wanted like a 3d printer or such because it sold by a Chinese vendor is unfair.(After all you can find faults with vendors/items without just saying 'but Chyna' without a valid point. For example: 'Bought this died on arrival' 'Caught on fire, not impressed')

              • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 15:29
                +1

                @Forfiet: Can you link to an example of where this has occured?

                • Forfiet on 30/08/2020 - 15:36

                  @brendanm: I'll have a check, some of the ones I have observed to get removed by mods regularly. If I find some i'll PM you as I don't want to unfairly target individuals. :)

                  • ozhunter on 30/08/2020 - 15:41

                    @Forfiet:

                    I don't want to unfairly target individuals. :)

                    They're posting a comment on a public forum behind an anonymous username.

                    Most people(at least in this thread) think the OP is kicking up a fuss about nothing and needs to harden up. Who do you think is gonna after the individual over a comment?

                    • Forfiet on 30/08/2020 - 15:53

                      @ozhunter: The mods? Maybe neil may want to clarify for us but the point of the report system is if you find an issue with a members comment is to direct the mods to it…. Not to go on a judgement spree for a site I don't own…. I rather take a step back and act cautiously instead of balls out in the wind(mmm, breezy) :)

                      Edit:Still looking for some examples, while many posts do have removed comments… Iam still after specific examples(in banggood posts for the moment).

                      • ozhunter on 30/08/2020 - 15:56

                        @Forfiet: You're worried about the mods deleting their comment?

                        • Forfiet on 30/08/2020 - 15:59

                          @ozhunter: Nah, they can delete what they want. I mean the mods not wanting to promote people 'ganging' up on posters. Let the mods……mod! :P

                      • Moderatorneil on 30/08/2020 - 15:58

                        @Forfiet:

                        Maybe neil may want to clarify for us but the point of the report system is if you find an issue with a members comment is to direct the mods to it

                        The point of report system is to report issues to moderators in a quick/easy way. If it is a more complex issue, please use the Talk with a Moderator Forum.

                  • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 15:55
                    -1

                    @Forfiet: No worries. At any rate, your last example seems to be aimed at products coming from China, not chinese people.

                    • Forfiet on 30/08/2020 - 15:58

                      @brendanm: Yeah, I wasn't talking about people being targeted. Just on deal/products from certain stores. Sorry for not clarifying. :)

      • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 14:34
        +25

        You didn't put examples because you don't know what they are. You just want to make an accusation and let it air.

        Casual racism has become so casual…

        Yes, let's police our actions, words and thoughts and assign social credit points to those that follow the prescribed directive.

        Oh crap, I made a reference to the CCP, I must be casually racist.

        • whooah1979 on 30/08/2020 - 18:05
          +2

          You’re good. The CCP isn’t a race.

          • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 18:12
            +1

            @whooah1979: Yes, but "casual racism" isn't defined.

            CCP is solely/predominantly monoculture and ethnically homogenous. I imagine that this would qualify as indirect/casual/implied/subtle (or a combination of) racism.

            Someone offended will figure something out.

        • Bob Svargis on 31/08/2020 - 08:22

          It's the same type of approach when someone says "You're an [insert expletive]. Just saying!"

          Throwing an accusation out there with nothing behind it. Just saying!

      • ozhunter on 30/08/2020 - 14:48
        +8

        Casual racism has become so casual that the commenter usually doesn't even realise their comment is offensive.

        So how would they know to stop it?

        It's like your wife telling you stop being annoying, but won't tell you what it is you're doing that is annoying. lol

  • loulou1 on 30/08/2020 - 14:11
    +4

    I think casual racism is definitely becoming more prevalent on here. Someone made a post that talked about banning people or not letting them post if they don't use correct English. Pretty sad really.

    • kahn on 30/08/2020 - 14:14
      +6

      OMG! Who was that racist? Language is the same as race, in our opinion!

      • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 14:35
        +5

        You don't think it is the same? You must be a racist.

        You think it's the same? You must be racist.

        You're all racists for… wait what are we talking about again? Oh yeah racism.

        Racism is bad! Let's do something about it.

        (Now you can all take turns to give me a pat on my back for calling out racism.)

      • neil on 30/08/2020 - 14:47

        I'm curious. Are you saying there is no such thing as racist language? So calling someone of black origin, the n-word or one of Chinese origin the c word is acceptable?

        • kahn on 30/08/2020 - 14:49
          +4

          I'm saying, through the art of sarcasm, that a language is not the same as a race of people.

        • Quantumcat on 30/08/2020 - 15:15
          +2

          What's the c word?

          • This Guy on 30/08/2020 - 15:32

            @Quantumcat: The noise fine china makes when struck with a tea spoon.

            Kinda dumb label as I have never heard a word in Cantonese or Mandarin that sounds like that onomatopoeia.

            • Quantumcat on 30/08/2020 - 15:38

              @This Guy: Oh right. Sounds like a very 70s kind of word, can't imagine anyone but an old guy with a strong southern American accent living in a trailer park saying it.

          • this is us on 30/08/2020 - 17:13

            @Quantumcat: It's funny… When I came to Australia I used to pronounce Qantas pretty much like the c word and one of my friends would laugh every time…

            By the way, I hate when people say things like "the c word" or "the n word". I obviously understand where this comes from, but I still feel like talking with a 5-year-old child… "No… You can't say d*ck or penis… it's pee pee".

            I do think that people are becoming more and more annoying and oversensitive. How people speak or write is not the problem. The intention to cause harm or offend is the problem, and we don't have to use the c or the n words for that. One thing is to say "go back to your country (n word)!" and other thing is to arrive at work and say to your close friend/colleague "Morning (n word)!". The context and intentions offend and create the racism, not the words.

            Another problem is that people are hypocrites… Institutions create internal rules to show that they are doing something against prejudice or racism (i.e., there is a phone to call if you experience bullying), but when a migrant goes for an interview they think that his accent might be a problem with clients and just choose an Australian or British. That's the kind of veiled racism migrants see on a daily basis.

            A friend of mine came from South Africa, she is educated and speaks perfect English, which is her mother tongue and the only language that she speaks. She got just an average mark in speaking when she had to sit for IELTS.

      • mbck on 30/08/2020 - 17:53

        Maybe not racist per se, but discriminatory nonetheless.

        Ok let's ban people who can't speak or use proper English. So do we also ban conspiracy theorists and their 5g, antivac, and whatever else they come up with?

        Point is it's free speech. Anyone can say whatever they want and be ready for whatever consequence comes their way.

        • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 18:05
          +1

          who can't speak or use proper English. So do we also ban conspiracy theorists and their 5g, antivac, and whatever else they come up with?

          We shouldn't to either but we should be able to take jabs at both.

          Anyone can say whatever they want and be ready for whatever consequence comes their way.

          I agree with caveat. This is the internet so people are can disseminate ideas without accountability, and this is a private domain. Mods can and should make some rules but in doing so, should not infringe on protected speech where possible.

        • kahn on 30/08/2020 - 19:13
          +1

          So, you're one of the people who reported it in addition to that loulou character. Did you actually see the test? It was testing the ability of the reader to add one or two letters to the description of simple pictures. For example, one was a picture of a dog with the caption "_og".

          You chose to view that as discriminatory instead of a humorous critique of the poor language used on this site. Even if it was a serious suggestion, who do you truly think it would exclude? People who don't know what a dog is? I'm sure if I posted another test here - one that asks the reader to differentiate between a bird and a bicycle, someone such as yourself would argue that it is discriminatory as well. Maybe the test would exclude those with severe brain damage from posting? How about parents who want their infants to mash the keyboard and post the resulting string of text in a googoo-gaga section of the forum? Disclaimer: the creation of such a forum section is not an actual suggestion.

          And what was the feedback from loulou and the mods about the test? It was that a better test would be one for kindness and tolerance. Wait a minute, wouldn't that be discriminatory against unkind people and intolerant people? Oh no!1!!

          • mbck on 30/08/2020 - 20:15

            @kahn: I actually have no idea what example loulou was talking about specifically. I didn't know it was you. Sorry you got reported, but it wasn't me.

            Since I don't know the exact comment, I can't really reply back as I don't know the specificities and your comment above made no sense to me. In saying that, it is hard to read through sarcasm on a forum.

            My original comment was on whatever loulou wrote above. Within that specific comment, yeah I'd call it discriminatory. But like I said, I don't know what the exact thing you wrote. Please don't assume everyone knows what you have done, are doing and thinking to do.

            • kahn on 30/08/2020 - 20:48
              +2

              @mbck:

              Someone made a post that talked about banning people or not letting them post if they don't use correct English.

              That was what loulou wrote in reference to a semi-mocking post I made about making people pass a very basic test before being granted permission to post. Unfortunately, some people found the suggestion offensive, discriminatory, and borderline racist. Some people are more easily offended than amused. They create fantasies to justify their own hatred and disguise their hatred in a veil of virtuosity.

              • mbck on 30/08/2020 - 21:05

                @kahn: Ok that's (to me) a pretty obvious joke post.

                I also wouldn't call it casual discriminatory (lol) as well. While I think the illustrations are nice (good job if you made it lol), it's pretty clear that was nothing to be taken seriously.

                I think for those who can't speak/write well, they know they lack the skills and wouldn't be surprised to be called out or at least helped. I think most will respond by being shy about it, and a smaller amount will welcome the chance to learn. But I doubt any will take offence

                • kahn on 30/08/2020 - 21:32
                  +1

                  @mbck: It's easy and natural to sympathise with those who are truly unskilled or new at English. The same can't be said for those who have been educated but just choose to use the laziest language that disrespects the reader and makes their message cringe-worthy. For example, lower-case I, failure to use a pronoun, failure to use commas, full-stops, apostrophes, paragraphs, where/were/we're, there/their/they're, and other basics. Recently, I saw one person refusing to use correct spelling because it was for nerds. How was this expressed? "Aint nerd"

        • Quantumcat on 30/08/2020 - 20:29
          1. There's no protection for free speech in Australia
          2. Free speech only means the government can't lock you up for what you say, not that a private enterprise can't censor people on its own platform however it chooses to
          • mbck on 30/08/2020 - 20:43

            @Quantumcat: Hence why I added the next sentence after I said free speech.

            Anyone can say whatever they want and be ready for whatever consequence comes their way.

            The good thing here is that you don't disappear without a trace. Or having to worry about what tea is ok to drink

          • kahn on 30/08/2020 - 21:12

            @Quantumcat: Regarding the second point: I'm pretty sure ASIO have the power to arrange for you to be locked up if you breach an order for you to be silent about them investigating you about terrorism. In other words, if they detain you because you are suspected of being involved in a terrorist plot, you are not allowed to tell anyone why you are/were detained.

            There's a bunch of similar 'keep ya gob shut' laws, like for doctors who treat asylum seekers not being allowed to report about their observations and also for ATO whistleblowers like Richard Boyle. Then there's Australia's "support" for Julian Assange :-P Freedom of speech, y'all!

    • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:16
      +8

      That's not racism friend. Why is everyone so easily offended.

      • loulou1 on 30/08/2020 - 14:19
        +2

        I think context is important, whilst picking on someone's incorrect use of language is not necessarily racism, it was clear that it was directed at people with English as a second language. I believe the post has since been removed so cannot give you the exact wording.
        As I wrote at the time, we should expect tolerance and kindness.

        • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:22
          +2

          I have at people's poor English, and couldn't give a rat's what race they are.

          What race would a French person be classed as, by the way?

          • loulou1 on 30/08/2020 - 14:25

            @brendanm: I am not looking to have an argument with you and perhaps I haven't articulated myself well.
            The comments were, in my opinion, aimed at Asian people.

            • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:36
              +3

              @loulou1: Your comment is simply broad, and looking to be offended.

        • burningrage on 30/08/2020 - 14:26
          +9

          I am from ESL background. I do not take offence at people saying my grammar is bad or anything.

          I actually do agree proper English should be encouraged but will happily admit I don't always get it right, mostly due to laziness at times but will admit it should be better.

          People need to stop being professional offence taker.

          And also I think the word "Casual Racism" is casting the net so wide that legitimate criticism can fall into this category and be used as a weapon.

          And yes, examples please

    • p1 ama on 30/08/2020 - 14:56
      +7

      I think casual racism is definitely becoming more prevalent on here. Someone made a post that talked about banning people or not letting them post if they don't use correct English. Pretty sad really.

      How is this racist? You can be of any race and have fantastic English and you can be of any race and also have atrocious English.

      (For the record, I'm Asian).

      • avgbowlofpho on 30/08/2020 - 15:09
        +3

        I'm also Asian, and I don't think there is anything which perpetuates the idea of racism here. If anything, the fact that they made the assumption that all People Of Colour don't use correct English makes it all the more hypocritical.

        This is just casual bullying. Not sure what part of that pertains to racism….

        • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 15:28
          +2

          I'm also Asian

          And you make an average bowl of pho?

          Ah crap. I assumed you would make better pho based on your race. Casual racism.

          • avgbowlofpho on 30/08/2020 - 15:43
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: lol why did you get negged? i thought it was funny….

          • This Guy on 30/08/2020 - 16:00

            @[Deactivated]: Asia is a continent.

            Vietnam has 54 official ethnic groups (english Government Portal). It's kind of hard to be racist towards the 'correct' ethnic group without learning Vietnamese and studying a bit of Vietnam's history. And anything less would just leave you with egg on your face.

            • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 17:05
              +1

              @This Guy: That's too much effort for me to be racist.

              I'm a high efficiency bigot.

  • Meho2026 on 30/08/2020 - 14:14
    +8

    Why don’t we make an effort to self moderate and call out racist comments. Making it clear they are unacceptable.
    If you think people often don’t realise what they have said is racist, there’s an opportunity to make them aware what they have said is offensive. Doing it that way may help educate and increase awareness which in turn could change attitudes.

    • EightImmortals on 30/08/2020 - 14:40

      "may help educate and increase awareness"

      In other words 'harass people and force them to conform'. The best you can hope for by that tactic is letting the person know that what they said was something that you personally didn't like. And if we all went though life hassling people for saying things that we don;t personally like or agree with then I guess it would be a pretty pathetic planet…….oh, wait. Conformity is and always has been the worst enemy of society.

      "The worst societies thrived on communal conformity because it was a simple form of mind control. You were made to feel that there was something wrong with you if you didn't think, look like, or act the same as others. Conformity, real conformity, has a price. You lose something priceless and precious when you are forced to be like everyone else."

      • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 18:09
        +4

        It looks like people really do not appreciate or are unfamiliar with the notion:

        "I disagree with what you say but will defend your right to say so."

        Nowadays, the notion is - if I don't agree with you, you better not exist. For those familiar with Mussolini, you know how that notion ends.

  • DASHCAM NOW DUDE on 30/08/2020 - 14:18

    Just neg it.

    • Moderatorneil on 30/08/2020 - 14:19

      Just neg report it.

      • Forfiet on 30/08/2020 - 14:30
        +4

        Just neil it? :P

  • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 14:28

    We need government oversight!

    imho the board owner should pay for governmental watchdogs to ensure boards prosperity

  • 87percent on 30/08/2020 - 14:30

    I call my son “boy”, been calling since he was born. Got told off by a friend this morning while on FaceTime as it “can be deemed racist”….

    • BOGOF on 30/08/2020 - 15:13
      +1

      Not if you are Tarzan.

    • mbck on 30/08/2020 - 17:56

      Is this for real??

      Then they need to censor God of war lol

  • EightImmortals on 30/08/2020 - 14:36
    +5

    "Most of the time the comments are so casually racist that the person doesn't even realise they're being racist."

    Ok Karen.

    So if, as you say the person making the comments that YOU CHOOSE to get 'offended' about isn't even trying to be offensive or 'racist' then maybe it's you who needs some help and not by the moderators. Sounds to me like you want everyone in the world to be forcibly conformed to your opinions about things and even worse, to your personal definition of what constitutes 'racism', and presumably whatever you choose to get 'offended' about next week.

    • This Guy on 30/08/2020 - 16:18
      -2

      Come on, you reply to someone complaining about causal racism with causal racism???

      The k word is the cultural oppression of woman of no colour, character, style or ethics. Just because many of us married a person like this does not give us the right to use this derogatory term.

      Many woman have had to adjust to the added social expectations of equality, whilst still dealing with all the social inequalities that are generally forced on their gender. Using a racist stereotype to hide this oppression is unjust.

      • EightImmortals on 30/08/2020 - 17:13
        +1

        lols?

        Not sure if serious (but more than happy if you saw the subtlety there :) )?

  • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:38
    +3

    I'm offended by bargains. Everyone must stop posting them so as not to upset me. Thankyou.

    • neil on 30/08/2020 - 14:41

      Maybe instead of being rude and obnoxious, you can listen to those with opposing views from yours. There may be some common ground.

      • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:47
        +3

        I doubt it. People who seek to be offended will find something to be offended about.

        • neil on 30/08/2020 - 14:48
          +1

          So OK by your standards to call those of colour as the n-word, those of Chinese origin the c word?

          • cheaplee on 30/08/2020 - 14:57

            @neil: I think that is far too simple and view a highlights the issue with so-called 'casual racism'.

            2pac called himself and his mates niggaz all the time. Is it not racist because he is black? If I called my white mate nigga, probably ok? I call my black brother-in-law nigga and I should be locked up? Even though he calls me the same thing??

            Edit: my n-words may be modded out, but we all know what word you are referring to. I think it is ok to write it down, you are not using it in an offensive way. Is it offensive to even mutter that word to myself when I am singing along, or should I now say n-word under my breath every time instead?

          • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 14:57
            +1

            @neil: Nope, that's also not at all what this thread is about. It was specifically stated as "casual racism". With no examples. And no definition. Just feelings.

            As a mod, you can also see my comments in the deleted thread someone started about races and colours. You can clearly see I am not happy with racism.

          • Muzeeb on 30/08/2020 - 18:09

            @neil:

            So OK by your standards

            I know what you voted

      • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 14:51
        +4

        The opposite of alleged rudeness are people who take offence not based on any defined scope of offensive speech but instead based on what they want to feel.

        They then go on to try and silence speech or speakers.

        Between the two, I rather have someone rude than to have someone trying their best to take away the most fundamental civil liberty.

        • neil on 30/08/2020 - 15:34

          Maybe it's better we be respectful and not rude to others? So you see no limits to free speech?

          • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 15:36
            +1

            @neil: Of course it is better if we can all maintain civility, even in discourse.

            Surely you can agree that better rudeness than forced silence.

            • neil on 30/08/2020 - 15:53

              @[Deactivated]: If forced silence means not yelling fire in a crowded theatre, calling people by a derogatory racist phrase, etc. then I disagree.

              • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 15:57
                +1

                @neil: I would suggest that the people calling people racist for no reason are more fitting of the label "rude" than someone pointing out that they are incorrect.

                • Moderatorneil on 30/08/2020 - 16:07

                  @brendanm: If someone believes a comment doesn't meet commenting guidelines, then the best course of action should be to use the report link.

                  • brendanm on 30/08/2020 - 16:39

                    @neil: I never mentioned anything about the commenting guidelines, simply about your comment that I was rude.

              • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 17:15
                +1

                @neil:

                If forced silence means not yelling fire in a crowded theatre, calling people by a derogatory racist phrase

                It is but it also silences far more than that.

                Your proposition is akin to if we can arrest people before they commit a crime, there would be no crime. Whilst it is true, you'd arrest a lot of innocent people.

                Eventually, it the innocent wouldn't just be collateral damage, they are likely going to be the target.

                Silencing speech is not far behind. Today you silence some unsavoury speech at the expense of free speech. Tomorrow you will silent dissent.

                • neil on 30/08/2020 - 17:38

                  @[Deactivated]: Free speech is either entirely free or it's not (like a freebie!). If one accepts that we can't yell fire in a crowded theatre, calling people by a derogatory racist phrase then those are exceptions and thus not entirely free speech (aka targeted freebie maybe?).

                  • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 17:53
                    +5

                    @neil:

                    Free speech is either entirely free…

                    That line has been done to death, the response seems to be ignored.

                    No one is saying free speech means the ability to say something criminal. There are universally accepted caveats to free speech.

                    There's free speech and there is protected speech. When we refer to free speech, we are colloquially referring to protected speech.

                    (Taking "free speech" out of context is akin to taking "freedom" to mean the freedom to go around mass murdering.)

                    Protected speech should not incite violence by calling to arms/action, and should not call to action discrimination.

                    There are a few more very niche limitations such as faking a bomb threat or a fire.

                    Example - we should burn X people. We should charge X people more.

                    calling people by a derogatory racist phrase

                    Whilst I do not condone that sort of behaviour, nor have I ever partaken in such speech, I will protect the ability for such speech outside of this platform (OzBargain). Within this platform, I can only hope you guys are wise enough to set clear definitions.

                    I have seen the bad side of arbitrary definitions, both in this forum and in real life. Of course, within the forum I don't really care. I wouldn't wish it on anyone in real life.

                  • Kangal on 30/08/2020 - 18:15

                    @neil: @neil

                    I think it all comes down to moderation.
                    An entirely capitalist system is horrible, just like an entirely communist system. And an entirely controlled society is horrible, but so is an entirely free (anarchy) society. Now I'm not saying I know where the needle lies, but that I know it is in-between the two extremes. Heck, it may not even be close to the middle.

                    In some backwards way, having limits and restrictions increases the Good and reduces the Bad. Just like consumers in a cereal aisle who have to pick between hundreds of brands, with hundreds more of varieties. It's not good. Yet having only a single cereal option also sucks for everyone. But limiting it down to say a dozen or so option seems to help people make more accurate, faster, and better choices. That's just a small analogy.

                    I'm all for Free* Speech, as in you can swear at politicians, businessmen, policemen, and randoms, but you aren't free from the consequences (eg ostracised, losing relationships, losing employment). Yet, I also think you can't be able to:
                    - negatively affect others via underhanded manipulation (eg Stock Reports, Fraud, Fake contracts, etc etc)
                    - terrorise others using your speech (eg yell fire in the cinemas, lying on News, etc etc)
                    - or use speech that negatively punishes, suppresses, and affects people who are segregated from the norm based on things out of their control (ie Skin colour, Mental Disorders, Abnormal Physiology, Short Height, Financial Upbringing etc etc).

                    ….I think its fair game to joke, criticise, or scrutinise Unhealthy/Fat Women and Men, Stylish choices, Hygiene, Substance Use, Conspiracy theories, Political beliefs, Religious ideas, other Subjective Preferences etc etc. Having these tools aren't a luxury, they are a necessity, to be able to out-source our morality to the society we live in, which in turn enhances our standards of living for many people in multitude of ways. I've heard many tales of people smuggled out of North Korea who were scared senselessly that they would be punished by The State for their literal thoughts. I've also heard many tales where "no limit" allowed people to suppress people of different ethnicity.

    • EightImmortals on 30/08/2020 - 14:41

      And I'm offended by people who get offended by bargains!

  • kahn on 30/08/2020 - 14:40
    +5

    https://i.imgflip.com/pn8hi.jpg

  • avgbowlofpho on 30/08/2020 - 14:48
    +1

    i'm a little surprised this forum post actually passed through. users should be aware that that the report button is always there, so what's the need to complain?

    • [Deactivated] on 30/08/2020 - 14:55

      They want to increase the scope of removable comments. They don't want the already subjective offensive speech to the only speech that can be removed.

      They want to move the goalpost.

      Where to? Based on case by case "definition".

      How well "defined" will it be? As defined as the examples given are specific.

      • neil on 30/08/2020 - 15:43
        +3

        They want to move the goalpost.

        As society evolves, the goalposts are always moving. Language that was acceptable decades ago (e.g. n-word, anti gay words) are now not acceptable. It goes the other direction as well, say the current events in Thailand that don't allow criticism (e.g. free speech) against the monarchs.

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