Another Business Using Our Free Wi-Fi

Lhelpdesk on 16/09/2020 - 15:04
Last edited 16/09/2020 - 16:19 by 1 other user

Bit of a poll based on a moral problem I have.

Business next door to my cafe is using our free WiFi to help run their business. We do not "need" the internet ourselves but we have it to provide internet for our customers to use at an expense to us. We were unaware they were using it until I recently did a password change and a staff member from the next door shop came and asked for the new password.

Is this an OK thing for them to do? It is unlimited FTTC 50/20 so the customers are not really affected regarding speeds.

Am I the idiot for not changing my password enough?

Let me know what I should do…

Poll Options expired

  • 15
    Ignore it, it causes you no harm
  • 33
    Dont let them use it
  • 457
    Ask them to contribute
  • 209
    Block their mac address
  • 5
    Bikies
  • 16
    It was the cyclists fault
Internet

Comments

  • spackbace on 16/09/2020 - 15:05
    +73

    Limit their speed? Run 2x SSIDs, 1 private and hidden (for your business if need be), 1 public. Your customers don't need full speed, nor does their business

    • RobBoss on 16/09/2020 - 21:08
      +18

      Yes! I'd say take them back to dial-up age by throttling it to 10kb/s

      • netjock on 17/09/2020 - 15:53
        -5

        Even 10 Mbits would be enough to get business users off it.

        • banana365 on 18/09/2020 - 16:30

          You can run a business off 4Mb/s easily. Source: one of our clients was doing this with 20 users until a couple of weeks ago.

          • netjock on 18/09/2020 - 19:01
            -2

            @banana365: I am sure they were a graphic design and video editing business too.

            It just depends on who their 20 users are, if 15 of them are in the warehouse and use the internet to check their pay slips then easy.

            I remember a certain power plant that would have a higher printing bill than head office. Turns out the staff was printing all their school fliers using the onsite printers. Always outliers to talk about.

            • banana365 on 18/09/2020 - 20:22

              @netjock:

              I am sure they were a graphic design and video editing business too

              Close. Printing company.

              • netjock on 18/09/2020 - 22:59
                -2

                @banana365: Everyone is on the internet. Nobody is doing the printing.

                If all you are is receiving files you can use 4Mbit. It just takes longer to receive files. You could run the business off internet and just have people bring in USB sticks.

                Photo kiosk is a printing business. Unfortunately need to plug in USB sticks.

                • banana365 on 18/09/2020 - 23:04
                  +3

                  @netjock: You're just being a dick now. You don't like someone pointing out your original comment was wrong and now you're just talking bollocks to try to justify it.

                  • netjock on 19/09/2020 - 11:06
                    -2

                    @banana365: You just get personal because you don't like people pointing out how low it is possible to go.

    • whirlpool_guy on 18/09/2020 - 12:18
      +1

      Great advice. I'll also make sure the SSIDs are on 2 different subnets, isolated from each other.

      Last thing you want is the next door business have malware on one of their devices, and it affect your business critical systems.

    • anonymous01 on 18/09/2020 - 21:46
      +3

      Or…. why not have a daily changing password. Only give it out to customers who buy something and tell them to ask for password at the counter when ordering something. I've seen a lot of cafe's do that.

      • TRAVELO on 19/09/2020 - 23:20

        this.. a lot of POS systems print custom messages on their receipts, just include it on there or ask the salesperson for it… it's ridiculous for you having to sponsor another business jut because they are a tight ass.. tell them to use their own mobile 4G they get with their telco..

  • PissLUR on 16/09/2020 - 15:06
    +3

    so how did you respond to the staff member? did you give it to them?

    • helpdesk on 16/09/2020 - 15:11
      +68

      They were not given the password today

      • Almost Banned on 16/09/2020 - 18:19
        +120

        Holy crap your neighbour's staff have some balls on them to come over and ask you for the password for your internet.
        It is a service you provide TO CUSTOMERS.
        If they are not customers then they can GGF!

        • susmind on 17/09/2020 - 20:48
          +2

          The boss is the boss. He tells the staff how thing run.
          Staff can only follow orders.

          • ratman on 17/09/2020 - 22:21
            +6

            @susmind: you know who else's staff were just following orders?

            hitler

            • pegaxs on 18/09/2020 - 10:43
              +5

              @ratman: Your logical fallacy here is Reductio ad Hitlerum

              • ratman on 18/09/2020 - 10:51
                +3

                @pegaxs: Lol thats awesome, didnt know it had a name. I got some quality negs for a popular joke too!

                • pegaxs on 18/09/2020 - 10:52
                  +4

                  @ratman: Yeah, I didn't neg you and I did chuckle at it :D

                • Allwentmarching on 18/09/2020 - 19:45
                  +2

                  @ratman: Theres also Godwins principle, I think its called where if 2 people argue for long enough on the internet, one will eventually mention Hitler.

      • CheapskateQueen on 16/09/2020 - 18:29
        +29

        why dont you just split the cost of the internet with them? you both win.

        if they don't wanna pay, block them.

      • achew on 17/09/2020 - 16:18

        if they buy something, they can have the pw =]

        achew
        'scuse me

      • Altitud on 17/09/2020 - 20:41
        +3

        So just keep changing the password.

      • djoz on 18/09/2020 - 15:34
        +1

        Did s/he buy a coffee and then ask you the password? You need to consider this case as well. What if they are your customers too?

        But IMO, pretty cheap of them to take advantage like this.

      • hailingstars on 16/09/2020 - 18:56
        +2

        Depends if you have a quota and whether you pay extra when that quota is exceeded.

        My old provider would charge $10 per GB over quota. That adds up quickly.

      • BanannaMan on 17/09/2020 - 14:35
        +3

        I always enjoy your responses in forums, they're so pragmatic and always differ from my own (hmm). FYI not sarcasm (cant really tell on forums).

        • mskeggs on 17/09/2020 - 20:25
          +6

          Cheers. I think it is funny that a bunch of responses here suggest going to serious lengths (buying new devices, getting up at 1am to check MAC addresses, configuring different sub-nets, confronting neighbours for payment) when the cost of doing the neighbour a favour is literally zero dollars.
          There is no downside at all compared to the current situation.

          So why would it be sensible to make an effort to make the neighbours life a little crappier by trying to kick them off or charge them a pittance?
          OP can make the world a better place for no cost and no effort by sharing the internet they didn’t even notice was being shared. My thinking makes it a no brainer to do this favour for the neighbour, and who knows, maybe the neighbour will happily repay the favour in a way yet to be discovered.

      • pwnd on 17/09/2020 - 15:12
        +3

        I would argue that the customers are potentially getting a slower service because next door are using it.

        • mskeggs on 17/09/2020 - 20:27

          Maybe. Maybe the network never hits peak speed and the neighbours use is literally at no cost to the OP. With a 50mbps service, that is reasonably likely. Or, at least it is unlikely the extra user is impacting speeds noticeably. OP certainly never noticed.

  • sss333 on 16/09/2020 - 15:09
    +67

    Did you ask what their OzBargain username is?

    • pizzanpasta on 17/09/2020 - 15:33
      +61

      First post tomorrow: "Help. Neighbour changed Wifi password and won't give me the new one. What should I do?"

      • tryagain on 17/09/2020 - 22:31
        +34

        It would be more like "I went to a Cafe that advertises free WiFi but they refused to give me the password, This is false advertising, what can I do?"

  • QuicheLorraine on 16/09/2020 - 15:14
    +85

    I'd be inclined to tell them it is for your customers only, and that you can give them a dedicated speed limited SSID if they are happy to contribute towards the monthly costs of providing it.

    • helpdesk on 16/09/2020 - 15:15
      +5

      I like this idea

    • lachhelix on 17/09/2020 - 13:13

      My suggestion exactly.

  • Archi on 16/09/2020 - 15:17
    +33

    change the wifi SSID to "PAY4WIFI"

    • life is suffering on 16/09/2020 - 15:19
      +8

      "LET'SPAYTOGETHER"

      • Archi on 16/09/2020 - 15:21
        -2

        yeah… nah..

        • life is suffering on 16/09/2020 - 15:31
          +4

          "ASKMEPASSWORD"

          • aboogee on 17/09/2020 - 17:24
            +5

            @life is suffering: SSID = FORCUSTOMERSONLY
            PASSWORD = NOTFOR"BUSINESSNAME"

            • roguescholar on 18/09/2020 - 08:25
              +40

              @aboogee: A guy walks into a bar and asks “ What’s the WiFi password?”

              Bartender: You need to buy a drink first.

              Guy: Okay, I'll have a coke.

              Bartender: Is Pepsi okay?

              Guy: Sure. How much is that?

              Bartender: £3

              Guy: There you go. So what's the wifi password?

              Bartender: You need to buy a drink first. No spaces, all lowercase.

      • spackbace on 16/09/2020 - 15:51

        Let spay together?

        Well then…

        spackbace on 16/09/2020 - 15:51 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
        • life is suffering on 16/09/2020 - 16:09
          +9

          noooooo Let's pay to get her

          • ozbjunkie on 17/09/2020 - 08:18
            -2

            @life is suffering: Let's pay to get her, together. Sharing is caring right? Bags showing my love first.

            … And also third.

    • RobBoss on 16/09/2020 - 21:08
      +1

      "IllllIIIIllllIIII" That'll get them

    • aragornelessar on 17/09/2020 - 13:44
      +31

      "24446666688888888"

      One 2, three 4, five 6, seven 8… technically you didn't lie to them

    • anonymous01 on 18/09/2020 - 21:47

      That would make a customer think that they have to pay additional for wi-fi.

      • Archi on 19/09/2020 - 00:13

        Doesn't mean you have only 1 SSID

        I have the avengers team as my SSID names

  • vt on 16/09/2020 - 15:23
    +6

    Did the staff member mention it was for the business? The staff member may have been using it for personal use on their smartphone.

    Seems like an odd business decision to create a dependency like this.

    • helpdesk on 16/09/2020 - 15:31
      +6

      Staff member did mention it was for the business.
      They use it for music streaming and general internet / eBay etc and social media so not really a dependency but they are certainly taking full advantage of it

      • SnoozeAndLose on 16/09/2020 - 15:50
        +8

        their staff is very honest and why they don't offer to split the bill?

        It is a potential security issue that they are see all traffic for your customers and any one who used their credit card, it can get messy.

        • anonymous01 on 18/09/2020 - 21:50
          +1

          What? How can they see customer's data usage and their credit card? That can only be done if they have access to router settings.. if multiple people connected to same wi-fi could hack each other, wi-fi wouldn't exist.

          • SnoozeAndLose on 18/09/2020 - 22:00

            @anonymous01: Suggest you google it.

            You are right, people for hack the router and sniffer all the traffic when they have the wifi password. Simple as this

            • anonymous01 on 19/09/2020 - 13:47

              @SnoozeAndLose: I would assume a business which has a lot of customers would be smart enough to not use the default 'Admin' and password that came with the router. That should be the first thing changed to a custom password. But yes, you are right that if they haven't changed the default password, then it can easily get hacked.

        • sarahlump on 19/09/2020 - 16:19

          Data is encrypted for a reason. One, packet sniffing is illegal without permission. Two, almost universally data transmitted is encrypted.

      • jnewau on 16/09/2020 - 16:37
        +37

        You should block them, especially if its for business. If they do something illegal on that service do you want to get dragged into it?

        • magic8ballgag on 18/09/2020 - 11:09
          +6

          If they do something illegal on that service do you want to get dragged into it?

          How would this be any different from actual customers doing the same thing?

      • smartazz104 on 18/09/2020 - 19:32

        Staff member did mention it was for the business.
        They use it for music streaming and general internet / eBay etc and social media so not really a dependency but they are certainly taking full advantage of it

        So not for the business then.

  • JimmyF on 16/09/2020 - 15:25
    +16

    and a staff member from the next door shop came and asked for the new password.

    Do you have much to do with this company normally? Sounds like you don't and they didn't ask permission before 'borrowing' your wifi.

    Internet should be for paying customers only. Do they buy anything from you regularly? If so, then maybe give them a pass if they support you etc.

    If not, then there are a few ways to handle this. Everything from investing in some decent guest portal software, that limits customers speeds/time per day/amount downloaded.

    or the simple ones like changing the password once or twice a day, forcing them to buy something each time to get the password. Once in the morning once in the afternoon would send them the hint pretty quick.

    I would also be looking at turning the wifi off when your business is closed, so they are not using the wifi when you're not open. You can do this with a schedule on lots of routers, or just turn the power on/off when you open/close the shop.

    They'll get the hint when there is no wifi during your closed hours that it might be time to get their own internet. Couple of nights working late without wifi would do that ;)

    But its really going to come down to if they are good customer or not.

  • DannyC on 16/09/2020 - 15:26
    +5

    I'm surprised that they would get any decent signal. A bit cheeky of them if you ask me. I would change the password every week or two OR HOW ABOUT DAILY? HAHAHA. That may deter them for a bit… A bit embarrassing asking for the wifi password multiple times from their neighbour.

    It'll be hard to chase up anything. Even if they do agree to stump up money to help with the internet fees… since they are
    already being a bit dodgy using your wifi network in the first place without actually first consulting you. Might cause more trouble than it's worth when money is involved.

  • ddhar on 16/09/2020 - 15:26
    +9

    The business using it for their business is not in spirit of free wi-fi provided to cafe patrons. I wouldn't allow them to use it.

    Not sure if easy to implement but consider a portal that times out users after 15 minutes or so, like those in hotels and airports. Otherwise, just change the password regularly and put up the password at the counter.

    • AwesomeAndrew on 18/09/2020 - 20:44
      +4

      You should print the daily wifi password on the receipts that you give customers.

  • Mechz on 16/09/2020 - 15:27
    +2

    The neighbours can tether from their phones since mobile data is cheap as chips. If they buy coffee every day then I would probably play nice though.

  • brad1-8tsi on 16/09/2020 - 15:35
    +12

    Are they a business that is struggling?

    Do you get a lot of business from them / their staff (lunches for meetings, coffees, etc).

    I think it's rude and unprofessional of them.

    • helpdesk on 16/09/2020 - 15:38
      +1

      I would say they may be struggling, but for all they know we are too. They get some coffee from us, very rarely some food.

      • brad1-8tsi on 16/09/2020 - 15:44
        +4

        i'd have a friendly chat. Suggest they use you for catering maybe.

        The problem is that once you formalise an agreement (even if it's just verbal), they could expect continuity of service.

        • CocaKoala on 17/09/2020 - 21:59
          +6

          Suggest they use you for catering maybe.

          They will buy food or use the catering service once, and then assume that they're therefore entitled for free wifi from that point onwards. I would make it clear to them in no uncertain terms that they will need to contribute if they would like to use the wifi.

      • mrvaluepack on 17/09/2020 - 13:47

        So they would be considered "customers" then?

        • JimmyF on 18/09/2020 - 12:02

          unless everyone is buying a product each day, it would be hard to call them 'customers'. Plus not really sure 1 coffee purchase entitles a team of say 4-5 to use the wifi for 8 hours a day!

          Would you go to your local coffee with 'free' wifi for customers, buy a single coffee at 9am and sit there all day using the wifi!?

          • mrvaluepack on 18/09/2020 - 19:41

            @JimmyF: Thats what people do at starbucks in other countries.

            • JimmyF on 18/09/2020 - 20:26
              -1

              @mrvaluepack: Yes that is americans in starbucks overseas…. But would you do that here or more should I say, would you expect that to happen here?

      • Allwentmarching on 18/09/2020 - 19:53

        I think that changes things, a bit. If they buy coffee every day Id probably let it go. If its only the occasional coffee then I think they are rude.

  • AdosHouse on 16/09/2020 - 15:36
    +8

    100% cyclists fault.

    I would speed and data limit their connection, unless they want to start contributing to the bill. Like if they just chipped in 30-40/month so you could ungrade to the next speed plan, I would be happy to put a repeater to the shared wall. More speed for my customers, and they can leech some of it too.

  • AustriaBargain on 16/09/2020 - 15:40

    You did say it was free. What you ought to do is add one of them landing pages when you connect, make it so your business webpage is the fist one all the freeloaders see. It's like shoving a flyer under the nose of everyone who uses it, just takes a few impressionable people to pay for itself.

    • Deals For Days on 17/09/2020 - 17:17
      +3

      Free for customers is completely different to another business using it.

      • AustriaBargain on 17/09/2020 - 17:21

        I bet they didn't put that in their fine print.

  • Quantumcat on 16/09/2020 - 15:44
    +8

    Not a good security decision by them. You don't need a lot of skill to spy on anything they're doing unencrypted.
    You probably also don't want randoms on your network especially if you have iot devices. In the very least you need to make a guest network that none of your stuff connects to so you can't get hacked

    • banana365 on 18/09/2020 - 17:17
      +1

      You don't need a lot of skill to spy on anything they're doing unencrypted.

      True, but unencrypted sites are vanishingly rare these days, thankfully.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2020 - 15:46
    +15

    You do not want any possibility of being complicit someone else's potentially dodgy business. It's a different case if they need it occasionally.

    I would end that "arrangement". It is not worth the few bucks you can potentially offset.

  • apsilon on 16/09/2020 - 15:46
    +6

    Run extension lead to their place? You supply the internet they supply your power.

    Seriously, I'd block them. If they'd asked I would've been OK with it but to take without asking, that's a no.

  • Davo1111 on 16/09/2020 - 15:49

    haha tell them you cant leech free wifi.

    If they come back to you with an offer, then you'll consider it.

    a staff member from the next door shop came and asked for the new password.

    Pretty damn cheeky

  • verisimilitude on 16/09/2020 - 15:52
    +8

    Probably best to change wifi passwords every day at a quiet time in the cafe - preferably at different times of the day.

    They'll find that they will need a more reliable internet connection. If they do come and ask for a password, ask them to support the business in exchange for the password.

    • Davo1111 on 16/09/2020 - 15:56

      Probably best to change wifi passwords every day at a quiet time in the cafe - preferably at different times of the day.

      this, i'd be changing it every few hours. Or upgrading the system

      • capslock janitor on 17/09/2020 - 23:59

        Yeah have one of those little whiteboard things "Wifi password is: XXX" for the customers when you change thru the day, wipe the board and write new pw,
        maybe next door will start getting annoyed enough to stop popping in

    • GourmetFoodie on 16/09/2020 - 16:13
      +1

      best answer

  • Cartman2530 on 16/09/2020 - 15:56
    +6

    Its a slippery slope, what else will you let them have for free? Power and water?
    Better off saying no and them getting their own internet access. Its a far easier thing to manage.

    Another thing to think about is what if they are doing illegal things over your connection?

  • mskeggs on 16/09/2020 - 16:01
    +14

    You pay the same if they use it or not.
    It sounds like their use had no performance impact, and you have already decided the security issues of letting strangers on the wifi are fine.
    So I say let them use it - be a good neighbour and tell them the password when they buy a coffee.
    If they stop buying coffee, make them feel a bit awkward asking for the password - just a “ha ha neighbour, haven’t seen you buying coffee for a while. The wifi is for customers! Ha ha. Today’s password is nofreeloaders - just kidding”.

    • sleet on 17/09/2020 - 19:46
      +1

      You can potentially pay LESS if they use it considering they're a business and the same if they don't use it - by asking them to contribute as others have said. Are they your customer?

      It's got to be a two way relationship sometimes. This is just taking advantage of this free service. When do you draw the line?

      • mskeggs on 17/09/2020 - 20:19
        +5

        I guess what you are saying is true, but I think it isn’t the way to proceed.
        Consider the absolute best case is the neighbour happily pays half the internet bill. So the value is what? Maybe $35 a month?

        Now consider the worst case. The neighbour says I won’t pay, takes their coffee business elsewhere and starts describing OP as a real tight arse. OP is still paying 100% of the bill, but has lost some custom and has a cranky neighbour. This is a bad outcome.

        Now consider if OP charges nothing, but reminds the neighbour the internet is a freebie/favour. Still pays the same amount as now, but likely has a neighbour who is favourable towards him, would be more likely to give the cafe some business, and could reasonably be asked to do a favour once in a while “hey neighbour, I can’t open till late tomorrow, would you mind bringing my bin in when you collect yours?”

        This option has no downside at all from the present circumstance, and possible upsides that could dwarf a few dollars that was the alternative best upside.

        As a bit of a life rule, I really try hard to do people favours, because one day I might need one. And in circumstances like this where the favour is literally zero cost, I think it would be very foolish not to provide it.

        • tarb on 17/09/2020 - 20:41
          +1

          omg finally some common sense!

          OP literally has no expense in providing them with wifi, and it comes with no downsides except the feeling of being taken advantage of. Yes they could split the cost, but that's a trivial amount of money, even when compared with just a few coffees / food a month. 50 bucks a month is nothing compared to the business provided from a few employees visiting your cafe even semi regularly.

          Running the risk of pissing them off and having them not go to you out of principle is probably far more likely and expensive - you'd really want to hope your the only cafe for miles around. Then there's the bad reputation, you don't want people in your immediate area saying mean things about you, deserved or not, it's just not worth it, and could easily cost you even further business.

          End of the day, cafe is a service business, you don't really provide anything that the cafe down the street or a kettle in the staff room doesn't already, good relations with those around you is vitally important. I know it sucks to feel like your being taken advantage of, but I reckon you take a breath, realize your paying for it either way, and give them the password with a big smile and absolutely no hassle.

          So many cafes/pubs get by just from the support of their regular loyal customers, you want these regulars. People who work near you are your best chance at these kind of customers. Even if they're not already regulars, the possibility that they become, or inversely that bad reputation that they might spread could cause you to lose your most valuable form of customer.

          /rant

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