First post.. please be gentle. Been eyeing on a Breville Dual Boiler and finally bite the bullet as rumor has it the BDB will only be sold as a bundle with the Breville Smart Grinder Pro which is usually retail at around $1600. This seems to be the cheapest since July where JB Hi-fi and David Jones has it for the same price. Enjoy!
Excludes Northern Territory, QLD Far North, QLD Regional, WA Regional, WA Remote, PO Box
Covid surcharge.
Breville price increase
Same here. Factor in 2.5% yearly inflation maybe it works out to about the same.
Inflation in USA (world's largest economy by GDP by far) is already running at over 5% lol.
And Interest rates are at Zero lolol.
And the Fed is still continuing QE for the foreseeable future lololol.
Any comments like "I bought this years ago for cheaper" is an anachronism.
Inflation/Stagflation will the be the definitive lived experience of everyone alive for the rest of this decade.
Not for long China will overtake soon
Been running at 5% for 4 months. Calm down buddy. Last 20 years before that barely made it above 3% for some of the years, most years lower than that.
Fed has signaled bond buying to shrink. Other QE measures will follow if inflation stays high.
Great machine..Great price. Highly recommended.
Yes, we all know it's been cheaper, but at this point in time this appears to be about 20% cheaper than anywhere else.
I just bought a Breville Oracle Touch and absolutely love it, given this is dual boiler it would be an awesome pick up at that price.
I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would spend circa $3000 on a Breville setup. Convenience maybe?
You would probably get a much better result I would think with a great grinder and just the standard Breville Dual Boiler.
Yes, but the Oracle is for those who want consistent coffee regardless of the effort put in. Great when it is not just yourself making the coffee, but your indifferent spouse, children or anyone who is willing to move a portafilter and press 2 buttons and a lever.
Convenience - that aspect of it does make sense but it's a hell of a lot of money for what it is.
@Bargain Slut: Some people can just afford it, don't want to spend time trawling multiple youtube videos, blogs, to learn to make consistent coffee. Don't want to measure weigh out each dose, learn ratios, get upgraded tamps, research which grinder to get, how much to spend, etc to get consistent coffee. Given both options, the oracle will give them more consistent coffee. Don't know if they still do but Breville use to send someone out to get you up and running with each purchase. That time saved is worth a lot more to them. So pretty much convenience. I have a BDB but if both were offered for the same price I'd get the oracle.
I have a BDB but if both were offered for the same price I'd get the oracle.
Good luck with that. Usually Oracle is 3x price of BDB. :))
That's what I don't understand - if you buy Oracle for extra $2k (roughly) you are getting mediocre grinder and automatic temper.
For $2k you can get Eureka Specialita (very good grinder, miles better than Oracle's one) and PUQ Press or Cinoart automatic temper and you might have some change left for beans. :)
Don't want to measure weigh out each dose, learn ratios, get upgraded tamps, research which grinder to get, how much to spend, etc to get consistent coffee.
These people won't get good result with Oracle either.
It is just automatic temper.
You still have to dial in your grinder and adjust the dose and measure the ratio. If people don't care Oracle can't do it for them.
@SickDmith: You have to dial in the grinder but the dose is set (there is a 'hack' to adjust it - unscrew and adjust the depth of the inbuilt tamp)
You can't adjust the ratio - it's timed
So basically they've tried to remove the variables - just teach you how to adjust grind till the 'right' amount comes out (not volumetric)
There's a review from Hoffman - the first minute I think he hits the nail on the head with the question - do you want a new hobby?
The people who buy these don't. They don't want to (or don't know to) find better ways to squeeze your dollar for the equipment you can get. They probably believe you always get what you pay for and get the most expensive machine in the appliance store they go into (which won't stock specialist coffee brands). They don't have the patience or willingness to waste litres of milk to get the texture right - which this supposedly does well. It probably does need an initial tune to get it close to a good setup.
@b0b: The price is the whole issue for me - you can get automatic systems for far less - admittedly I know fk all about fully auto setup. I've used the Oracle touch a bunch of times, I still don't love it for the money.
Yes this is why we got one, me, wife and kids all have a profile, it makes coffee making easy, sure large upfront cost but when are spending $10+ a day on coffee it'll pay itself off in a short time.
The touch is a waste of money unless you want to save profiles for coffee making. Standard Oracle is a similar experience but much cheaper, can get it sub $2,000 during pandemic. Less steps and mess to coffee is the major attraction and if you want to get more manual with the process you can. My wife has no interest in a full manual experience and with this machine she can pump out a few good coffees in a hurry or for social events while it is still manual enough for me to tweak every pull for which direction the wind is blowing.
Makes sense - I can understand that there's a market out there for this sort of thing, I'm just not entirely sure I'd be paying $3,500 for it. I assume most people who buy these don't exactly switch beans every fortnight, so once you set everything up there is probably minimal variation required to get a decent output on a more manual setup.
I accept that I am definitely not the target market for this though - my mum would probably love this sort of thing I guess.
I assume most people who buy these don't exactly switch beans every fortnight,
Well if you go through enough coffee you will because the again of the roast will define what you need to set the grinder to. I even find that the coffee at the end of the day needs a finer grind and I'm not sure if that is because of the air temp, the fact that the grinder has been well used during the day, or maybe because the machine gets heated sometimes by being in the sunlight in the early arvo.
But I search around a lot for the perfect shot, my wife doesn't mind if it is slight over or under extracted.
@serpserpserp: More that there wouldn't be an great deal of adjustments req'd if you're just sticking to the same beans and milk all the time. I tweak my set up between shots but the only major adjustments I am making is when I switch to a new brand/style of beans - which I do at least once a month lately. If you just used the same beans all the time, a manual setup would be pretty manageable setup in terms of actual inputs.
I gave my dad Compak K3 Touch and a Gaggia Classic Pro with a spring swap - Its not perfect but I already had the Compak and got the Gaggia at a very good price, for Christmas I'll probably give him a Puqpress mini. He like coffee but mostly he likes toys to play with, I imagine if he uses it enough he might upgrade the machine in time.
Admittedly that's a few different bits of kit and total cost @ retail is not insignificant but its a relatively child proof workflow to get decent results.
This or the Barista Pro? I know this has the dual boiler, but I don’t think I’d froth the milk and extract the coffee at the same time anyway?
I kind of steered away from the Pro as I wanted to get my own grinder so thought it would be useless to have the inbuilt grinder on the pro.
I usually have two cups a day and it’s just me that drinks coffee in my household. Should I just go with the Pro and use the inbuilt grinder, is it that bad?
Even if not extracting and frothing at the same time you need to consider time to heat to boil for water vs temp to extract coffee at less than boiling temp, if making more than one coffee at the same time or over short periods, other machines use thermal block but these have an inconsistent pressure to extract, pulsing, from what I have read this makes a difference.
I was once in the same position as you but after having to see so many great feedbacks of the dual boiler and the fact that a built-in grinder can be very expensive to be repaired whereas a standalone grinder can easily be replaced. The dual boiler also has extra features like auto-on which is great for the machine to warm up even before I got out of bed.
Might be worth to take a look at the Lelit Combi.
It uses a single boiler so no drawback from thermo block;
It uses great quality material and its made in Italy;
It has a good grinder built in;
It has a 9 bar OPV fitted;
It's $1200, pretty much the same if you get the Breville dual boiler with a grinder.
It doesn't have a pid and it doesn't have all the bells and whistles that the BDB has but it can probably lasts longer, and easier to repair.
the fact that a built-in grinder can be very expensive to be repaired whereas a standalone grinder can easily be replaced.
Why can't you also just replace the built-in grinder with a stand alone if it breaks? The built-in grinder doesn't make the machine that much bigger anyway.
Takes up space.
@ca6leguy: A built in grinder does not take up more space than a stand alone grinder. a machine without a grinder does not give you back enough space to sit a grinder on.
We have a breville dual boiler and ours takes the same amount of time to froth the milk as extract the coffee .
Dual boiler takes half the time to make a coffee .
Even more so with multiple coffees.
This is much better if you are keen on making the best cup you can at home. Barista Pro is good for people who want something convenient.
Definitely go for the dual boiler if your budget can extend that little extra and you have the bench space.
Im a 2 cup a day person and I'm the only coffee drinker. I've had the dual boiler for 6 years and pulled over 4000 cups.
I would 100% get this over the Barista Pro if you don't mind having a separate grinder. If you don't wait long enough for the steam pressure, you get inconsistent steam and makes it hard to steam the milk. The time saved and consistency is worth it.
Yes the thermoblocks simply cannot compete imo.
Also the dual boiler has a standard size portafilter.
I'll say the only reason not to get this is benchtop space. It's much wider and you also need a grinder.
I dont have either, but I strongly suggest seperate grinder if this becomes a hobby - because that way you can upgrade them separately. I made the mistake of having a 2 in 1, big regret.
That is a good point. If I ever become a connoisseur I’ll want something better I’m sure.
I got Barista Pro over this old model… It starts in 3 seconds so the two boiler time gain is really not that much. Making milk at the same time as extraction is for coffee nerds ;) Has built in grinder and is smaller. Maybe I'm just not a coffee snob, but don't see anything wrong with the Pro. It makes better coffee than pretty much any cafe and that's according to a barista (not me). It was 720 aud not so long ago which is quite a difference considering you still need a grinder.
I did the same and agree, the dual boiler is a better machine but more exy and a lot more bench real estate. The pro will make an amazing coffee too
Yeah just don't try and make a bunch of lattes quickly.; even for 4 people you'll be waiting 20 minutes with all the stuffing around.
No way, I can make 2 lattes in 2 mins (I know this because I do it 2mins before my meetings start all the time), if you bought a bigger milk jug, you could do 4 single shots lattes in 3 mins, with supplied stuff, 5 mins tops
@smoothymcmellow: Maybe if you had two portafilters. But you'd be temp surfing the second double shot.
All the while the first two shots are getting really cold in the cup (and the second two just cold) while you wait for the thermal block get pressure back up and be stable for a big jug of milk to froth which takes longer to do right because of the extra milk.
I know guys who are really handy with a Gaggia and can pull great coffees with it. But only does two at a time and starts the process over again.
The Dual Boiler is definitely a better machine, but the trade off is you lose the in built grinder.
The steps on the Barista Pro make it harder to dial in (vs the non digital dial on the Touch or the Express - where you can use a clip to lock in between steps). The Dual Boiler is 58mm (easier to buy accessories) and has dual boiler (so can brew with consistent temperature, and easier to switch between brewing and steaming). The Pro starts up faster (in theory) due to the Thermojet - but in practice you need to let either of them warm up a bit.
The main feature that both of them miss (vs some of the Breville line up) is the auto milk texturing.
Both are great machines, but the general view is the Dual Boiler is the better option.
The Dual Boiler is definitely a better machine, but the trade off is you lose the in built grinder.
This is a win for me - built in grinder is very very average.
How much do you give a shit about coffee? How much bench space do you have? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you a serial upgrader?
If your answer to most of those is no/not really - you'll be fine with the Pro.
If your answer is yes/a lot - you will probably want the dual boiler and a decent grinder, if not something even better.
This everyday. Because it has a 58mm basket, letting you fill the right amount of coffee grinds without overloading the basket, which happens with the 54mm of the Pro.
Also the Breville dual boiler has very good temperature control for the hot water extraction, much better than their thermoblocks.
letting you fill the right amount of coffee grinds without overloading the basket, which happens with the 54mm of the Pro.
The right amount of coffee shouldn't overload the basket with the 54mm (or any basket). If you are overloading you are likely putting it more than the recommended amount (for the 54mm).
Does anyone have this plus a higher end grinder? Looking to see if people have gone through the analysis process of rancilio vs gaggia vs this etc and ended up with this.
I had a Silvia for many years when it was the only game at this price range. I'd 100% get this these days.
Yep, recently bought one of these and a high end grinder, both used, main reason for this one for me was the ability to quickly make a coffee, probably not the same build quality as the others, but still plenty of people reporting great longevity from these.
Rancilio has better build quality, but the Dual boiler has better quality of life features. Both make very good coffee, the Rancilio more fiddly because of the overheating, whereas the Dual Boiler probably has too high a pressure setting.
Used this with a Niche Zero and got great results until the Breville died on me (5+ years, not properly looked after). Now have a Decent DE1+ and a Lagom P64/Niche Zero setup.
For the price, the Breville is unmatched, especially if you look into the Slayer mod.
I wish I had gotten this+SGP instead of my express.
why
BDB has OPV. The machine in the office has OPV and i feel OPV makes a difference. A little forgiving on the grinds. Also its difficult to fine tune with this grinder, especially if the beans are a little old. I am new to coffee machines, but this is what I felt. You can read my other comments below.
Your Express has an OPV, otherwise it'd be illegal to sell. It'd potentially explode.
The problem is it's factory set to be above 9 bars, like a lot of home machines.
You can lower it if you like:
https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53197-sage-barista-express-…
Your office machine probably makes this process easier (external philips head adjustment is common).
The grinder, however, is an entirely different issue and far more likely the cause of being unable to get the best out of your beans.
@Anders: Cool, thanks, I will take a look. I might need to set it at 12 or 13 bars as 54mm = thicker puck and I doubt 9 bars will cut in.
@John Doh: No, that's not advisable. After 9 bars, secondary puck compression happens, causing the puck to shrink and be almost impassable aside from channels, restricting flow and making extraction horrible and uneven. Aim for 9. Many will set it at 8.
@Anders: But why do people say they get the best taste when they extract the coffee with pressure guage almost at 12:30 or 1'oClock position?
@Anders: There is a video where a guy measures the actual pressure. At 1 o clock postion its 14 bars. Also at 9 bars, i was never able to extract 18 in 36 out in 25 to 30 seconds. Probably possible if I limit the OPV.
@John Doh: 14 bars is ludicrous for extraction. Nothing good can happen at 14 bars.
Before blaming the OPV, adjust your grind, or buy better coffee. What coffee are you using?
@Anders: Most forums I see, they say extracting at 1'oclock position is where the coffee tastes the best. Below are 2 videos what 1'oClock pressure means.
1) https://youtu.be/G1BwBCMG_tM?t=184
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL-StQvhie0
I have been using cheap Aldi and Harris beans, but have ordered airjo on the weekend so lets see. I doubt if I will notice any difference in the pressure because thats what everybody on the internet are seeing.
@John Doh: Yes, doing some reading, it sounds like the pump is working overtime to produce that stupid amount of pressure, and you should lower the OPV if you can, so it dumps a lot of the flow and doesn't rip a hole through properly ground pucks.
Supermarket beans are going to be a very bad time. Good lord I can't imagine how fine you'd have to grind to get stale beans to hold 14 bars of pressure. The shots must taste nasty!
This plus smart grinder pro is a great combo , been using it for years.
I've had this since 2015 and its still going strong… Best investment ever for the 2 coffees per day we have.
Fill it with Aldi beans and be a true Ozbargainer like me!
The aldi Dark beans roasted in Melbourne are amazing. Great quality beans and value at $12 a kilo!
I am new to this coffee beans stuff, can you please tell me how these aldi dark beans compare to various blends that go on sale here on OZB? Thanks.
They are cheaper. That's it.
Well… Actually… To make good coffee you need fresh beans. Roasted beans are the best (roughly) between 7 to 28 days since the roast. Basically the general advice is to consume beans within a month since roasting.
This is a general guideline but a lot of people don't care and can't see much difference between 1 week old and 6 months old beans.
All these beans deals on OZB are for fresh beans (often roasted after you order them).
Aldi beans - I was never able to buy them earlier than 3 weeks from the roast - I believe supply chain takes time to deliver them to NSW. These beans are very good value for money when you can find reasonably fresh batch.
Breville Dual Boiler is a very capable machine.
If you pair it with a good grinder and fresh beans and invest few hours into learning how to make espresso you will be making it better than 90% of all coffee shops around you. :)
@SickDmith: I already have an express, trying to make the best out of it :) Thanks for the detailed response above :)
Aldi beans have the roast date on them, in reverse. So find the one with the most recent date on them.
If you have a BDB or similar, use the Aldi beans to practice experimenting with grind time/size to figure out a ballpark of what you like. Once you've done that, start experimenting with other OZB approved beans
They are slightly cheaper. They are a little more stale and have a little less flavour. Grab a bag and then grab a bag from Airjo or Blue Lime from an ozb deal and see if you can tell the difference.
I'm no coffee snob, but my understanding is that dark beans are basically overroasted and basically burnt, so you can't really taste subtle coffee flavours as the blackening is overpowering.
Optimal roast levels would depend on the origin/bean itself of course.
Tempting but think I'll be a tight ass and go for the bambino plus. Can get that plus a grinder for similar total amount with the Good Guy commercial special. Also has a lower footprint on my limited bench space, and a quicker heat up time. Not as many features of course but still capable of a good cup by all accounts (once upgraded to single walled basket).
Can anyone convince me it's worth forking out for the dual boiler instead?
You could buy a second coffee machine to froth the milk quite easily for less… but I have the BDB and love it! 😆
You have a point. What makes this so great other than you can do the milk why you’re making your coffee. Bambino plus he PID, it cannot be that. Is it the pressure.?
The temperature and pressure guages would be nice too but not sure how important that really is
The biggest difference to a casual user is steam pressure and saving time from switching from brewing to steaming. The pressure on this machine will make it much easier to steam milk and 2-3x faster.
2-3 x as quick is a bit of an exaggeration isn't it? From the reviews I've seen the milk frothing seems to be pretty good on bambino, particularly if you're happy with the Good (but not perfect) froth you get from the automatic function.
I personally drink mainly black anyway, but will no doubt use the frothing occasionally.
I don't think so. I'm guessing bambino steaming milk to be 20-30sec, BDB to be under 10sec.
edit. I probs should have noted that the change from brewing to steaming would be the biggest time saver.
@POSITIVEVIBESONLY: It definitely takes more than 30secs to steam my milk with the BDB (my double shot was done in 30secs but steaming still going)
Not an exaggeration, with most machines - bambino is pretty fkn quick though
Does the 9bar pressure limiter valve make a difference?
I have never used a machine without a OPV so I can't really comment.
James Hoffmann is saying it is crucial. He was complaining some machines with OPV are not calibrated to deliver 9 bar or less.
I think the point is higher pressure causes over extractions which usually means more harsh taste and bitterness.
@SickDmith: I have an express with 54mm PF. The thicker the puck, more the pressure required to extract. I think most express owners extract at close to 14 bars. I dont know how that tastes better than 58mm at 9bars. Choice rates Express to be better than BDB on blind taste test. So I am a bit confused.
@SickDmith: One thing I don’t like about OPV is it hides the information that your puck is too dense.
@Untameable: Sorry, can't agree.
9 bar is enough to see if you are compressing puck too much.
Also tamping pressure is irrelevant as long it is consistent.
From my experience tamping pressure makes much smaller difference to extraction time compared to amount if coffee or grind size.
The Bambino Plus steams faster than the Dual Boiler.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-SvqbdpgaM&ab_channel=Lifes…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZHBel5WAwU&ab_channel=Lifes…
wow. I take everything back. Did not expect this.
@POSITIVEVIBESONLY: I own both the Bambino Plus (my road trip machine) and an Oracle - which is essentially a Dual Boiler with auto grind/tamp/steam functions. My wife uses the Oracle as it is intended but I use it manually in much the same way as one would use the BDB with a separate grinder as I like experimenting with grind/dose/pre-infusion, different distribution techniques etc. Based on my experiences, the 58mm group/portafilter pulls a clearly better shot than the Bambino's 54mm. The milk steamer of the Bambino is super fast - pretty much neck and neck with the Oracle with natural variation of starting milk temperature and variation in volume. The quality of the steamed milk is much the same in skilled hands - but you must remember to purge the significant amount of water from the Bambino's steam wand before dipping it into the milk. Steam heat up time is super fast on the Bambino as well - so if you are the type to keep an eye on your extraction time and weight on scales etc. and then steam your milk separately afterwards, the time saving is negligible as steam heat up is so quick on the Bambino. But if you are happy to pull the shot and steam the milk at the same time, then the Dual Boiler will be a significant time saving. FWIW I was perfectly happy with the quality of shots I got from my Bambino with a single wall basket and bottomless portafilter when my Oracle was out for repairs a while back.
@zoomjc: I've been using a Gaggia and had the same issues as the Bambino where purging the excess water out is annoying and running out of steam for 3 cups of coffee. The steam was a little unstable too on my Gaggia, sometimes excellent, sometimes weak. I thought the BDB would be more like high end double boiler machines like rancillio pro and linea mini, I found the steam power much stronger and steamed milk almost instantly. The 58mm porterfilter can't be overlooked though, so many tools are calibrated for 58mm.
Thanks for the great insight, I'm looking to upgrade and I guess I won't be looking at the BDB.
@POSITIVEVIBESONLY: IMHO the BDB will be an upgrade from the Gaggia (assuming you have the Classic Pro) - the dual boiler, pre-infusion control, brew temperature control are all additional features. Milk steaming takes around 40sec if you are doing 200-250mL which is not long given your coffee extraction time should be around 30s once you are dialled in anyway. There is not much water to be expelled from the BDB compared to the Bambino Plus. You also have more clearance from the group head to allow for bigger cups/mugs.
Machines like the La Marzocco Linea Mini are around $7000 - not in the same league! And while it may steam milk in 10s or so, it takes some skill to be able to control your milk texture with that much steam power! That is not for everyone. The BDB is as good a value proposition as you can get for the money.
Second video actually shows termojet steaming taking a bit longer
Second video actually shows termojet steaming taking a bit longer
Alas they didn't show the the bambino plus in the newer video (and the touch and bambino have slightly different steam wands). Is that the difference? I am not sure…
Also see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZHBel5WAwU&lc=UgzfGKeRyfVX5… .
I’ve got the bambino plus with SGP, highly rate it. Just under $600 for both when on sale/ TGGC and I’ve replaced the basket with the 54mm pesado single wall basket for $29 (coffeeparts.com.au) and bought a weighted calibrated 54mm tamper on amazon for $28. Also bought the breville knock box from TGGC for $37.
Really does takes 3 seconds to turn on and start pouring shots, also under 10s to switch to steaming and best feature is probably the manual flow control which you can program and set as the default. Can’t believe the full size machines need 10 minutes, insane
The grinder doesn’t quite get enough adjustment and the numbers don’t quite correlate exactly to the grinder position - sometimes moving the dial a notch doesn’t register on the LCD, but apparently still more control than a built in grinder and close enough for me
Took a few attempts but I’ve got it nailed for the beans from one of the local roasters - it’s very good but be aware it will never get to the same coffee shop quality.
I was always hesitant about buying a home machine because all coffees my friends and family make through their brevilles have been horrendous but really they just aren’t as invested in good tasting coffee as I am
For anyone new, you’re aiming to get a 2:1 ratio of beans to coffee; and 18g of beans (double shot) should produce 36g of liquid - yes use scales under your cup while running the shot.
It should take 30s +/- to get that amount so you can change the grind to suit - too quick means grind is too coarse so make it finer and the shot will take longer
On the bambino plus you can hold both shot buttons for 3s, then push the double shot and it will start running on manual mode. Once around 30g of coffee is in the cup (it continues to drip a little after you stop) press the double shot button again and it will stop and store that as the new default double shot amount. Tbh I run it manually every time to make sure I get the exact amount of liquid out.
Also beans absolutely need to be good quality and fresh - best to use them between 4 and 30 days from roasted or they will taste like arse and won’t produce a good crema. Black Market Roasters and Little Marionette are my current favourites.
Damn, I bought this around 4-5 years ago, for around this price or even cheaper, and that time came with a free Breville smart grinder pro too.