Updated LiFePO4 12V 100Ah Slimline Battery with 150A Bluetooth BMS $1097 (Normally $1297) Delivered @ Muller Energy

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Muller Energy

• 

  zombie hunter on 06/03/2022 - 11:47

  hi when is the package deal com8ng back for the following thanks
  https://mullerenergy.com.au/product/muller-energy-200ah-life…

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 11:50

    +1

    I'll get it changed to being in stock today, if you're interested. But we'll be raising the prices of that package in the next couple of weeks, just to let you know.

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 07/03/2022 - 10:44

    Now available to purchase again.

• 

  valkeris on 06/03/2022 - 11:49

  Can you wire them in parallel? I need a 24v system for my motorhome.

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 11:54

    +7

    You can definitely connect them in parallel. However what you seem to be after is connecting them in series to get to 24V. We don't recommend this (while technically it should be possible). I know a lot of companies say you can do it, but in my opinion it's always a suboptimal solution, as you can't balance the cells in battery #1 with the cells in battery #2.
    If you're after a custom 24V battery, we can definitely help with that too, but it would be a longer wait (unless you are considering building your own battery, as we have the cells in stock).
    Please feel free to contact me on [email protected] if you want to talk about a custom 24V solution for your needs.

• 

  MasterScythe on 06/03/2022 - 13:20

  +1

  God I love LiFePo4, ever since cells got cheap I've been building batteries like no tomorrow.

  • 

    Pixie13 on 06/03/2022 - 13:21

    +1

    Yep LiFePo4 is great

    • 

      incipient on 06/03/2022 - 13:28

      The main advantage I thought was they tended to explode a bit less? (and were better for the env, less yuck chemical components)

      Any other advantages?

      • 

        AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 13:54

        +1

        Depends what you're comparing it to.
        It you're comparing it to NMC (frequently called "lithium ion"), than safety is probably the most important advantage, plus the fact that you can't get a good 12V replacement from an NMC, as they have a nominal voltage of 3.7V, so 3s is a bit low and 4s is too high.
        For the safety, while it's technically possible for LiFePO4 cells to catch fire, the risk is much lower and while I've seen punctured cells, I've never seen it happen.

        When comparing to lead acid, there are obvious advantages such as: Cycle life, DoD, weight, size, lower Peukert effect, no hydrogen venting, and interestingly often a lower cost per year.

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 13:49

    @masterscythe
    Whenever I hear someone say something like that, I warn them to be careful!

    That's how my lithium addiction started. 😉

    On a more serious note though, I agree, it's a great hobby and a good way to save some money.

    • 

      MasterScythe on 07/03/2022 - 03:41

      Yep. Luckily the "raw cell" trade probably doesnt hurt your business, since most people here will be looking for a battery to fit a purpose.

      But for me, 280Ah cells, on a metal mesh shelf, in a 24v series wiring, keeps my shed running for free (aircon, power tools, recharging tools, etc).

      The only thing that uses mains is my hoist, because 15A 240v loads on top of 750w of aircon just blows out the BMS cost.

      The fact you can have a huge off grid system for a shed for under $1.5k is just exciting.

      I dont even rate the cost as a cost though, its true pleasure. Getting new tech is better than a holiday.

      Curious rep; are you finding LiFePo4 cells are ageing much less significantly than other types?

      I only ask because in my experience, buying 'b grade' LiIon or LiPo usually results in HUGE capacity loss (in the case of LiIon) or short life before puffing or heating in LiPo's.

      By comparison, Ive had NO issues with "dodgy" LiFe sellers, even when they've arrives near 2V only (still holds and provides within 5% of rating).

      And every youtube video I see, has even 'old' (manufacturing date) likely used cells, coming back within 10%.

      • 

        AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 07/03/2022 - 10:54

        Sounds like you've definitely made the right choice to me!

        As for aging, I can't speak for all chemistries, as I haven't actually personally used LTO yet. From everything I've read and seen, they are excellent too. But yes, LiFePO4 is fantastic at longevity! NMC can be good, look at Tesla's for example, the majority of them use NMC and batteries can last a while at up to 3C discharge rates. However they seem to be a bit more of a mixed bag. Even Japanese NMC cells can be quite bad (Sanyo heaters anyone?).

        I've had lots of issues with dodgy LiFePO4 sellers, unfortunately. But I guess that's part of what people are paying for when they're buying from me. I've made mistakes in the past with bad sellers, but this ensures that the suppliers that I use now are very well vetted and independent quality assurance tests are carried out (by SGS) before products are accepted. It's probably prohibitively expensive to do this for small orders, but for larger orders it ends up being quite a small percentage of the total cost.

• 

  justtoreply on 06/03/2022 - 13:32

  +2

  No need for this personally but i always find the rep to have such good info that i visit anyway.

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 13:55

    Thanks very much!

• 

  [Deactivated] on 06/03/2022 - 13:56

  I got 100Ah battery 4 times cheaper, not slim. Just saying this price is bit high. This one with eBay 17% off. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/165035779236

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 14:06

    +6

    You're right, this is absolutely a bit of a premium product, but I strongly believe that you get what you pay for.
    Here is a blog post that I wrote a while ago, comparing our battery to a cheap battery: https://mullerenergy.com.au/which-lithium-battery-is-the-bes…

    I wouldn't recommend bottom of the market batteries for a number of factors. The brand that I think you're likely referring to, has had some interesting reviews including apparently not having a working over current protection, which is a big safety risk in my opinion.

    But you're right that our batteries definitely aren't all things to all people. If you only ever have low charge and discharge rates and don't cycle the battery much and only need terminals to connect to, then by all means, go for a middle of the road VoltX.

    Edit: I hadn't seen your link. It's not the brand that I was talking about, but the fact that the sticker implies that this one contains lead, may be a sign of how much attention to detail this company is putting into their product.

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 06/03/2022 - 14:50

      sure, just wanted to share how cheap they've become. My use case is for car dual battery setup, under bonnet. And your link shows cylindrical cells, mine is prismatic

  • 

    zombie hunter on 06/03/2022 - 14:12

    Did you really read the description of this one before making a comment ?
    My educated guess no…..

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 06/03/2022 - 14:15

      nope, lol. neither did I say its comparable

    • 

      lulzenberg on 06/03/2022 - 15:47

      -1

      They aren't wrong, 1k for 105ah battery, even with a bt bms, is pricey compared to what is available, without even looking at the cost of making your own from cells. It isn't cheap to run a business though, especially in Australia, and that is where the extra cost comes in.

  • 

    lulzenberg on 06/03/2022 - 15:45

    -1

    Not sure why anyone would down-vote this, the price on this post, if people hadn't looked at ~100AH batteries in a while, would think 1k is a cheap price. The drop below 1k for a 100ah in AU has really only happened in the last few years. In the end it's about $200 of EVE cylindrical cells and a $50 BMS, with the extra cost being the experience, labour and costs of running a business in Australia. For an all in one unit, for people who don't want to get into building batteries as a hobby, and are going to buy an inverter for 240v (or just don't need it), this is a fair deal.

    • 

      AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 16:08

      If you can get me 4x 105A EVE cells that meet factory specs for $200 and a 150 JBD BMS for $50, please contact me, we're paying way more than that, even if you're talking in USD. 🙂

      • 

        lulzenberg on 06/03/2022 - 16:45

        Unless you're referring to a different EVE:
        https://www.evebattery.com/en/ or 'EVE Energy Co., Ltd.' on AliBaba

        It looks like their 3.2v 105AH cells are sitting at ~110 aud ea atm at the lowest possible MOQ, you can pick them up from resellers for 50-55usd (~70-75 aud) and have seem them drop below the 50 aud mark, especially with 'hot deals', but maybe they are stock that don't meet the factory specs.

        With the JBD BMS, i'm also assuming you mean Jiabaida, who also sell mostly on AliBaba, which you can pick up for ~55usd most days, but again, do drop down lower with 'hot deals' hitting the sub 50aud mark. Not something a business can sit around and wait for with regular production, but as OZBer/hobby battery maker, something that can be done.

        I'd edit my costs above if it were possible, as they are misleading if the ones sold by resellers/in hot deals don't meet some kind of requirements i'm unaware of. With the full prices lowest MOQ it brings it to $440 in cells and ~$75 on the BMS, bringing the cell+bms cost to $515AUD+shipping for the average person.

        Also, unless it wasn't clear above in text, not taking a jab at the prices of these batteries. They are higher than other ~100AH batteries available, but the cheaper ones are hard to find with a 2yr, let alone 5 year warranty, or actually built in Australia, which, from experience, being the costliest part of a business in Australia (trying to build things locally and actually pay people a decent wage while attempting to compete with overseas imports).

        • 

          AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 07/03/2022 - 10:56

          +1

          @lulzenberg: Thanks for the clarification, your costs are definitely in the right ballpark now (but you've also got to account for customs charges and GST).

          • 

            lulzenberg on 07/03/2022 - 18:02

            @RubenM: this is also true haha - another thing a business probably can't do vs a hobbiest is get them to put it down as $10 for customs charges 🤣

• 

  Jakedamusss on 06/03/2022 - 14:20

  Do you have higher voltage ones? Looking at building a high powered scooter.

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 14:26

    +1

    We can supply all voltages up to 60V for custom batteries. However we only have 12V and 48V as our standard batteries.
    We do also sell 15Ah and 202Ah (and 280Ah on their way) cells, if you wanted to build your own battery. Please also feel free to contact me on [email protected] if you're interested.

    • 

      Jakedamusss on 06/03/2022 - 18:09

      Thank you.

• 

  Slopshua on 06/03/2022 - 14:48

  Nice mounting feet now on the 200ah. Can these be retrofitted to those of us who purchased the older version without the mounts?

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 14:49

    Sorry, unfortunately not. It requires welded mounts on the inside.
    Thanks very much for the purchase of the previous version though!

• 

  Pixie13 on 06/03/2022 - 15:20

  Can you recommend a bms for use with the batteries that you sell? I don't have the money to buy four currently, but want to buy over time (I know that I have to make the voltages all the same when I hook them up).

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 16:18

    I tend to recommend two BMSs: Daly and JBD.

    If it's your first battery, Daly is probably the easier one, there are less settings and the Bluetooth app is better. It's also completely waterproof.
    In recent times though, I've used more JBD ones. They've got a rep that's good to work with (probably not that relevant to a consumer) and they're a little bit cheaper. They also have a lot of settings that you can customise and even have optional heat pads (you shouldn't charge LiFePO4 batteries below freezing, not really that relevant in much of Australia).

    If you're after a 4s (12V) JBD BMS, we have 100A, 150A and 200A in stock. For Dalys, while we can bring them in, you're probably better off just getting them off Aliexpress.

    • 

      Pixie13 on 06/03/2022 - 17:53

      Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. That's great customer service.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 06/03/2022 - 16:12

  Does this BMS allow input and output at the same time ?

  For example: Solar Panel or DC DC charging the battery while it is powering 12V devices ?

  Also does the LCD display total real time usage ? For example +50W from Solar -20W from Fridge = +30W ?

  Would be cool to replace the ArkPak with big 100Ah battery if possible

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 16:23

    Yes and no!

    Yes, you can have an input and output at the same time, but no in practical terms, as the flow to or from the battery will only ever be in one direction at any given time (as you illustrated in your example). 🙂

    All three Andersons can be used as inputs and outputs and while the cigarette lighter socket can technically be used as an input as well, this is really not recommended.

    The LCD display displays voltage and gives you an approximation of State of Charge, though I don't find this to be very reliable, which is why I didn't even mention it in the video.
    A JBD BMS can either have Bluetooth or a proper display with state of charge, individual cell voltages, etc. As I think Bluetooth is generally more important, we opted for this. You can definitely see SoC, current and voltage (and thus power) in real time via the Bluetooth app.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 06/03/2022 - 16:42

  Hmm may have to stick to the ArkPak for now - it does everything. If you could get the tech from ArkPak 730 (also sometimes rebadged as Engel / Thunder / Hulk) I'd be keen.

  For reference I paid $390 for the Voltax 100Ah and $450 for the ArkPak which allow charging and usage at the same time - cigarette lighter charger, wall charger, anderson plug, 2x cig sockets, USB and built in 300w inverter plus external +- connectors.

  I can connect the fridge, cpap machine, solar, car cig charger and it will all work together and display the total W usage realtime.

  I feel like after getting one of these you still need to factor in:

  • Connecting your car to charge it
  • Finding a wall charger for lithium
  • Inability to charge and discharge at the same time

  For what appears to be tripple the price of other batteries out there (with not as good a BMS granted)

  If you had an external enclosure with all the goodies from an ArkPak I'd consider spending that premium for sure.

  • 

    lulzenberg on 06/03/2022 - 17:07

    The ArkPak is a good concept, but the 300w inverter is very limiting. It's enough for some, but no where near enough for others. Not to mention they have a rather bad reputation for reliability and most people who use it often having to replace it 3+ times within the first year (granted, ark are pretty good about it and haven't heard much about people struggling to get it replaced, but they still had to get it replaced - not a great thing to have to do if you're on a trip). The price of $450 would also have been a sale/older price. I know I picked mine up a good ~5 years ago for under $400, but even ARK advertise them as ~$750, with others selling for $550 at "club price" (the real price in reality) and slapping $699 on as MSRP. Adding even the cheapest of 100AH LIPO4 batteries to a $550 ArkPak brings that to the $850-$1000 area, with the only bonus being a very low wattage inverter.

    I don't see this battery as something to compete with an all-in-one battery box with a cheap inverter, it would be something for a semi-DIY build where they would be adding their own inverter, and more than likely more than one battery. Granted, you could technically add more batteries to an ArkPak, but how you would need to do it would pretty much defeat the purpose of the ArkPak.

    With solar panels and a 105AH, pairing a 300w inverter wouldn't really be a common thing either, even in the cheaper end of builds (price difference on an edison 300w vs 1000w PSW inverter is roughly $55).

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 06/03/2022 - 17:10

      Yeah I agree with all of the above - maybe not with the replacement part mine has lasted 3 years without any issues.

      But more to the point for the extra $$ premium you would pay for a battery with some simple connections the ArkPak combo with a cheaper battery of similar capacity is much better value.

  • 

    AssociatedRubenM @ Muller Energy on 06/03/2022 - 17:09

    +1

    As I said above, it's not for everyone.
    And I also agree that a Voltax (now called VoltX) can be fine, depending on your requirements. I'm not here to trash other brands.
    This battery is designed to fit behind the seats if a ute, which is often dead space. Your battery would be significantly bigger and can't do this, but it might not be a requirement for you, so that's fine.

    You can charge and discharge at the same time, but it's just the net of the two that will go into or out of the battery (perhaps I didn't explain it well before).

    We've got some of the best prices for Victron chargers as well, but at the same time they're still not cheap.

    As for having to run the wiring in your car and a DCDC converter (which is recommended), is definitely an additional cost and a little bit of work, I agree with you there.
    We'll have a cheap solution to charge it from your car cigarette lighter socket in the coming months. It's really more designed to get your battery charged every now and then though, rather than it being a permanent solution.

    Instantaneous power would be quite easy to do, but to be completely honest, most people are happy to get their phone out to check it. Plus if the battery is behind your seats, it's actually easier to do it that way.
    But if your battery works for you, that's good! 🙂

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 06/03/2022 - 17:15

      Yeah actually the Bluetooth feature is a bonus for checking usage if you can hide it where you may not be able to reach.

      Like I said competition is what drives people to this site to post the best solutions at the best prices.

      I mention all of the above more as encouragement to try to get companies to innovate and come up with something that basically gives anyone days of power in one little pack with charging and connections.

      Hope that it is possible soon - seeing something like this is exciting and opens up thoughts of these possibilities.

    • 

      lulzenberg on 06/03/2022 - 17:15

      I'm glad to see someone confirm VoltaX and VoltX are the same company, for a while I thought perhaps i'd imagined the 'a'. I have heard of people having issues with the VoltaX batteries and having trouble with warranties being honoured by the original suppliers - and that (at least in part) being the reason for the name change and rebranding (and now hopefully reliable suppliers).

• 

  yjnb on 11/03/2022 - 19:12

  Is there any timeline on the 200ah slimline lifepo4 coming back in stock? The measurements suggest a better fit in my dual cab dmax