ABC's iView will soon require us to provide personal details and sign in to use it. I understand that companies like 7, 9 and 10 might want to track my viewing for commercial purposes, but isn't it inappropriate for public broadcasters like ABC (and therefore the government) to do this?
Sounds a lot like government over-reach to me.
i want that dog plz
its not DATA…you sign into ABC and 9Now and everything else so you have a user account that remembers your last viewed shows or movies your half way in and you can continue from where you left of from that show.. season 2 episode 4 ext …
Think netflix user profiles and recommended shows.
They provide a FREE service.. if you dont want to create an account then youtube is for you.. but good luck with random unrelated trash suggestions by not login into youtube either… you want tailored content you need an account no way around it.. these companies want to also show proof to advertisers that they have eyeballs viewing the adds to keep making money and keep providing the free content.. its up to you if you want to be included.. yes even ABC has adds to help cover costs.
Sounds a lot like government over-reach to me.
For a moment I thought you are complaining about mandatory check-in with QR code. Was gonna say that's so 2021.
Wait for the digital ID my friend.
Do they need to know your age for appropriate content viewing and I assume your state for targeted news content?
If you are worried about the ABC requesting personal data then the internet is probably not for you.
Forcing you to open an account does not mean they know your age. They already collect your geographic locations, based on your DNS and/or socket address, and/or third party data. A cursory check of the content and times you watch it will give them a better idea of age than the questions they ask.
What they want is you to:
- Agree to their terms of data use (or more accurately, abuse), so they can collect and distribute (share, compromise, and/or sell) the data you provide (both knowingly, and unknowingly) with anyone needing to carry out 'citizen monitoring' or whatever else they call it at the time. Their systems are built by the world's most valuable multinational entities to enable the very costly delivery of streaming media. This is their very reason for existence, and business case.
As the data is collected, others use and abuse it, and feed you other content that they are paid to, or that gradually aligns your thinking so that you will be more likely to support their agenda/s.
At the end of the day iView is an interactive channel through which ABC content can be consumed, via Amazon, Adobe Content Delivery, and a device platform. All are orchestrated to share whatever they can glean about you, and a plethora of online sources that cross reference/link (FB, Twitter, TikTok, etc.) the digital breadcrumbs you leave behind on other platforms and services, most of whom you are unlikely to be aware even exist.
This is why the Ts&Cs all talk about doing this whilst respecting your rights under privacy law; because practically speaking our law is unable to prevent this happening.
tl;dr
The internet
Apologies for the reasoning; To summarise, your argument is inconsistent as so many Internet based resources request personal data, and it does not stop people using it.
@resisting the urge: That is OP's point. You are already giving away this data to many other sources that are far less trustworthy, if you are concerned about giving this to the ABC then you should probably steer clear of the internet altogether.
What they want is you to:
- Agree to their terms of data use (or more accurately, abuse), so they can collect and distribute (share, compromise, and/or sell) the data you provide (both knowingly, and unknowingly) with anyone needing to carry out 'citizen monitoring' or whatever else they call it at the time. Their systems are built by the world's most valuable multinational entities to enable the very costly delivery of streaming media. This is their very reason for existence, and business case.
They don't need you to open an account to do all this. The can already track all this through you're devices unique ID, or just through basic fingerprinting. And you've already consented to all this just to use the app.
Most of the time these days creating an account is just confirming the details they already suspected (including personal details like name, address, etc), so opening an account is (generally) more a convenience for the user - play history, favourites, etc; they already have all this information, you just don't get to use it yourself until you open an account.
I'm not condoning or agreeing with this behaviour, just being realistic about it.
Very true, but adding verified PII to the profile makes all the difference financially and legally.
All that activity related data is worth far less if it is sourced from 'anonymous' fingerprinted users, without verified names and addresses: To use it lawfully, you need to say this person agreed- this way, at this place, on this date and time. An app download only gives you an app store user's agree-ance; and in most homes it would be unrealistic to try to claim this is one and the same as the app's user.
Also, for the our glorious supreme overlords who stack the ABC board and compliance/legal department with lawyers to tie presenters, editors, researchers and journalists up in red-taped, self censored knots of love, it is very important to have this data stored, for those times they ask the children from the commonwealth's school of secrets to relate particular media consumer IDs to electoral roll IDs. And of course, when the time comes to 'strengthen public protections', and 'enhance our law enforcement agencies ability to ingest data', ie. Collect real time surveillance of people's thinking at scale, like Google, TikTok, FB, etc. do
@Zaphod42: Here is what HBO, another media corporation, using the same or if not similar technology, and vendors, has just been found out doing:
https://blog.malwarebytes.com/privacy-2/2022/03/hbo-sued-for…
Unfortunately breaches of the data they store, as well as the laws we work under, are becoming increasingly common.
In Oz, Channels 10, 9, 7, even SBS On Demand, and pretty much anyone that relies on ad-related revenue are all actively doing this for years. Maybe even ABC, but they do not disclose how much they pay Faecesbook and other Socials to hook them up with ads, page impressions, and more 'watchers'/'viewers'.
Mark may words, today they invite you to open an account, it won't be long before they will want your biometric data to give you access to it: E.g. Palm scans, webcam access for Facial Recognition, DNA… just so you can log on. Definitely better to pull out now whilst you can opt to support something else ;-)
This is totally incorrect to assume they need to know your age. For starter, iView is just the internet channel for their free-to-air contents. You advise viewer the age requirements/information etc and it is up to the viewer to make a decision. Just because the contents are being delivered via a different medium, it doesn't make it more dangerous or age inappropriate than it is via the traditional TV channel.
This is a complete overreach and should be opposed. SBS does this too btw.
It's the norm now.
Even old mate's new washing machine needs an account and your profanity address. YOUR ADDRESS
Even old mate's new washing machine needs an account and your profanity address. YOUR ADDRESS
That's so when the washing machine develops a fault, it reports back and the company can send out a technician to fix it!
🤣
We can all dream … can't we!
It’s so if the machine breaks and it’s at a different address, they can claim warranty is void if you didn’t use their approved relocation engineers. /s
There are a whole heap of licensing / distribution arrangements for titles that make it necessary to control & account for user access to this content by broadcasters. Its the same reason the NetFlix etc catalogues are so different between countries and why some titles are available in certain locations and others are not. Also the same reason some titles disappear from services seemingly randomly as old distribution agreements expire and might not be renewed.
Not defending the over collection of user information on the internet but in this case there is some justification.
What's that got to do with an account though?
Even netflix doesn't associate the account you see with your region but by detecting where you're streaming the content from.
FTA television broadcasters don't know who is receiving their signal, or recording or relaying it to other places. Yet still they can get access to content.
The question here is whether they
- care about collecting and sharing data, No.
- want to stay competitive with streamers that do, Yes
Will they do what it takes? Yes
Will they share with worlkd+dog? Yes
Will they be accountable for abuse of profile data? No
Will everyone sign up? Not on your Nelly!
Hard to comment on whether its appropriate or not. I don't see it as a particularly bad thing. I assume you can give fake info.
But I don't see why it is necessary.
I suspect some of it may be driven by the people they buy content off. i.e. they may need to have certain measures in place to prevent piracy etc.
It would be nice if the reason for this was more clear.
Yes. You can give fake info. But I'm guessing it's more about aggregating info to an IP. I friggen hate it as well. Remember to always use the same fake DOB as well for all your fake accounts.
Use a VPN.
They can and do just ban vpn services at the flick of a config file
Doesn't seem to be to much of an over-reach at all -
Increasingly, Australians expect to pick up where they left off on streaming platforms, they expect to save favourites and receive recommendations, and in this algorithm-enabled world that means asking ABC iview users to share some information about themselves.
I get the creation of an account to make streaming seamless across devices, but they don't need all that information to create an account.
I guess the answer is to lie.
…Australians expect to pick up where they left off on streaming platforms…..
Easily fixed. Those expectant Australians, can create an account. Simples, cant see any need for it to be mandatory. As for the rest, one can search for what they like on the site, if they dont think they can find stuff and want ABC recommendations, they can sign up. Leave everyone else alone
Sounds totally like media bs at play here, because nothing they have said justifies the need for it to be mandatory.
No one actually signs up to these types of services with their genuine info do they? Have a dedicated free email for the account, fake name and DOB etc.
I its not really hard to still digitally fingerprint people regardless of their fake details and use information from websites that fingerprint you that have your "real" data, and associate it with the same profile.
This is literally for a streaming service
Got your tin foil hat on?
:-)
if you don't mind signing into Ozbargain, can't you sign into ABC iView? i don't see the big deal.
One is choice, one is mandatory. Free to air live TV will be the next step.
Privacy is eroded in small subtle ways that requires vigilance. It sounds silly now, but perhaps in 20 years we'll have an autocratic Governmet that uses its records to track and silence dissent, keeping it in power and controlling the entire information narrative across all media.
Right.. is having to sign into ABC iView really the biggest challenge Australia is facing ??
Correct. That's exactly what I said. High distinction. Here's your corner office.
And signing into ABC is really necessary? They really havent said why!
Every reason they have used, doesnt say mandatory is necessary.
Give a good reason, and the arguments go away.
Its not mandatory.
FTA doesn’t require a sign in.
They're both a choice.
Both are choice. You don’t have to watch iview. You don’t have to participate on Ozbargain
Hi Poboy, What is an iView?
I have no TV as I do not support the use of it and I acknowledge that this is my choice, however if the government are forcing us to watch this iView I do not agree with this!
I don't even have a TV!
Should we petition to stop the government mandates?
It's not a money thing for me either. That said, I know plenty of people who cannot afford the mandatory TV, however will the government be subsidising this?
For me it is a time issue. I work full time and don't want to spend my time watching TV. You can't be serious about these mandates mate.
I think you're having a laugh!
Complain to the ABC.
The ABC complaints department is infamous.
How many lawyers does it take to reply to a complaint?
None!
It's so you can save playlists and continue where you stopped watching etc. But yeah i know they will be data farming as well.
I understand that companies like 7, 9 and 10 might want to track my viewing for commercial purposes, but isn't it inappropriate for public broadcasters like ABC (and therefore the government) to do this?
So its ok for 7/9/10 to understand what people are watching, when, what shows people like etc, but not the ABC?
Sounds a lot like government over-reach to me.
hahaha oh please. Maybe you should visit a country with a overreaching government before making wild silly claims.
They have just as much need to it as teh other channels. The more information they have the better they can tailor thier goods to the market.
In my opinion the question of inappropriate only comes in if they sell that information to other companies - But that's probably covered by whatever web browser/smart device you're using anyway.
Just give them some garbage data and keep moving on
You think the ABC don't need to justify their existence to the libs?
They need to sustain and/or improve their viewership otherwise they'll be shut down faster than you can say Newscorp.
You seem oblivious to the fact that Australia is already a police state.
What on Earth are you worried about signing in to the ABC for when the government already requires all metadata to be recorded and available for viewing?
And allows widespread abuse of access to that metadata.
And allows US intelligence agencies to change what Australian's publish after secret courts grant it permission.
Burner email address and details?
You just made me think about something funny.
How much fun would the advertisers have trying to fingerprint people if everyone used (different) burner details for every account, everywhere. Amazon? Burner name, email, DOB, etc. Netflix? Another burner name, email, DOB, etc. OzBargain? Different burner name, email, DOB, etc.
I mean, for all of the above the details are irrelevant, the only reason most people use real information is because they can't see any reason not to, and they don't have to try remember the details they gave to every different service - you imagine trying to deal with customer service and all the information you need to give them was made up when you created the account…
I'm now considering doing this myself but… could easily save the details I gave each site/service in my password manager.
Would completely destroy getting decent (product/video/etc) recommendations but… :/
I do this to some extent - I have 5 different pretend versions set up and just pick one at random, but google is a tough one to get around. So I throw it off - every couple days I search for an item I have zero intent on ever buying - a petrol pressure washer, a generator, expensive gardening gloves etc. I open a bunch of tabs from the search results then close them all up.
At first I was trying to come up with something different each time but now I just rotate the same 3 things. Sure, they have my legit searches, but they're quite corrupted by the amount of false data I send in. Plus any ads on sites where I can't use my adblocker are now just for those 3 things which makes them even easier to ignore.
They only need you to provide the info in one validated form (Gov form, Utility, any one of millions of Service Providers that people 'trust') , after that they can link it to every fingerprint you leave, so even if you have millions of different fingers, they can relate more or less every one, over time.
@resisting the urge: I don't think we're at that level yet. Companies are going to take the easy matches and ditch the low %'s.
I spent a year trying to help match up lost superannuation accounts to actual people. It's bloody difficult even for a human to do it and that's with the person involved actively trying to help.
@macfudd: I wish you were correct. But even if we were not, the AI has already been on the job for years.
Regardless of what I say, this should be borne in mind;
There is presently more PII maintained, shared and used for constant development globally, than ever before. Data breaches increasingly common, security practices and underlying architectures will simply never be up to the task. This figure, whatever it is, increases exponentially. No-one will ever tell us how many countries' total use of electricity is used to store even just the duplicated parts, or the historical, or incorrect data.
There is little to stop anyone abusing data legally. GDPR is just the beginning. There remains little incentive to do better, until individual problems shock enough people. Then, the bare minimum is done to address that particular problem. And is how we got to this point.
There are only incentives to abuse PII; whether it be covertly, confidentially, or with the bare minimum of individuals in the know
If too risky to do it, its dead easy to outsource the effort to distributed and unaccountable teams to get it done with little linking the business with the developers.
Remember, the ones doing the most in this space publicly are not the ones who are doing it secretly.
Who are they? Who stands to gain the most? Which political parties, which influential individuals, corporations, groups and organised crime syndicates and operations would draw the line between use and abuse in the race to knowing the most about what humanity is thinking and doing, as or even before they think it? Worse, they won't even draw the line when the only benefit is financial.
In fact I've never seen a single manager in any of our most trustworthy institutions ever get near doing this. They only care about what is lawful, and what is risky. To them it is an ROI equation, and a ticket to a good review, greater returns, etc.
I'm certainly yet to see anyone hold the most mundane data-management project up over what is ethical, moral, or simply unacceptable, practice/s. At the end of the day, the law is all that counts, and we barely have a grab bag of principles defined on that front. Digital laws trail the abundant lethargy of our most moribund leaders, by years, even decades. This only enables our present levels of digital warfare, multiple digital arms races, killer robots, and all kinds of other tech that will up-end, if not destroy societal norms, mother nature, and our planet's future.
Incredible as it is, iView is even a part of these shifts.
Ironic that youtube (owned by Google, who mine data as their main revenue stream) still lets you watch videos without signing in.
And if you want playlists and all that other bullshit, you have the option to sign up.
Meanwhile "our" ABC forces us to sign up to watch the content.
Yeah it's not the biggest issue we're facing, and yeah other governments in the world are shittier than ours, but this still sucks for those who don't torrent everything or want to watch ABC's original content.
still lets you watch videos without signing in
Not all videos. Some videos require signing in these days - I'm not 100% sure on the requirements, but I have had it happen a few times I'm gone to follow a link to some YouTube video and it's refused to show me the video, asking me me to sign in.
Yeh I've had that a couple of times.
If you encounter that again, just prefix the youtube domain with nsfw
eg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=… becomes https://www.nsfwyoutube.com/watch?v=…
That takes you to a third part site which plays the video for you.
This is not about the ABC needing this info. Or the government. Or spies.
The ABC is requiring you to login and identify yourself so it can track your tastes because has made a commercial deal to share that information about you with Facebook and Google so they can use that info. Facebook and Google will attempt to link it to your login on their services. This is not a secret, it has been reported widely.
So the way to stop them is to make it impossible for them to link your ABC login to your Facebook and Google logins.
You will note that the ABC has a privacy policy. But its a policy the ABC writes itself, and decides itself how it will interpret it. And if it wants to do something that policy would prevent, it simply rewrites it to allow itself to do it. As you will see in this case if you read its revised privacy policy.
https://help.abc.net.au/hc/en-us/articles/360001154976-ABC-P…
So, with the ABC being subject to so many budget cuts, what do you believe the best way is for them to speak to the value they're providing the Australian public… If they aren't able to identify how many and what type of people they're providing a service to?
Hard data is their only weapon against the liberal party.
Just use fake details, there's literally no downside. It's not like you'll need to link a credit card to it or have them post something to your house.
Maybe the ABC is different. Maybe they want your data to curate a better experience for you. Maybe. They have no advertising revenue so I would imagine they can’t sell the data to a third party without violating their charter. Maybe.
They are starting to advertise and they are now run by ex newscorp employees. They are already advertising on their news podcasts.
"Government Overreach" really? Seems like you're overreaching. Just give them a junk email address and make up the answers to the questions if you're worried. You're metadata tells them more about you than a sign in process.
This actually is the answer, if you don't want Google and Facebook getting access to info about what you watch on iView. Give them each a different email address. That's the piece of info they are using to know its the same you on each platform.
Being able to confuse and confound what the ABC is doing doesn't excuse them doing it. This is a choice we should have.
The systems are smart enough to figure out who is who based on the quantity of data they have on everyone.
Just don't use it, or any of the free to air tv apps if you feel that strongly.
No big deal.
Sign in has been necessary for several years with SBS on Demand, 7+, 9 Now etc.
What's more annoying is now when I open the app on my shield I need to sign in as me even though there is only one account on the system. It's only a button push but why not auto sign in if only one account?
Commenting on OZB and have sign in issues with Aunty. Is this a stupid test?
Who can tell anymore?
no there should be a sign in so the pricks can't hide :D
Yes it is
They have licensing agreements and terms and conditions that they need their users to agree to and registering the address and agreeing to conditions is necessary to them allowing you to use the content they have purchased.
For example a particular tv show they have purchased for viewing might only be allowed to be watched in Australia. So users need to sign up and register their address to confirm the users are from that country (according to the information they've provided) and not just using a VPN.
Does it say anywhere in the conditions that they are using it for data harvesting?
You are speculating why the ABC MIGHT be doing it. Well, no need to speculate, the media has widely reported why the ABC IS doing it. It has entered into a commercial deal with Google and Facebook so the information on what an iView user's tastes are can be supplied to those commercial entities so they can identify where that user is also a Google or Facebook user, combine the ABC-supplied information with what they already know about them, and use it to better target them.
Its nothing to do with licencing terms and conditions for ABC shows. That's why they've never had it till now. The ABC is broadcasting its programs to anyone who chooses to watch them. There is no more need for ABC to know who is watching ABC shows on iView than there is to know who is watching them on TV. Because anyone can.
(the ABC) has entered into a commercial deal with Google and Facebook so the information on what an iView user's tastes are can be supplied to those commercial entities
Bullshit, source?
If you mean this that is referring to Google/Facebook paying the ABC to publish the ABC's news reporting on their platforms, as part of the new news media laws. It's not to sell them your iView viewing habits.
This seems to be in line with the general degradation of the ABC over the past couple of years, with their ever increasing breaks for "promos" and the news and current affairs that has seemingly been invaded by a cabal of left wing zealots who skew the news to promote their own views/agenda and make it virtually impossible to enjoy an even-handed reporting of the facts!. I think all would agree that Scomo and the Libs make enough mistakes to deserve regular negative reportage, but note to M/s Laura Tingle ….this guy is not responsible for floods, bushfires, pandemics, toe-rot and the tetse fly, as your editorials seem to suggest…,a power with a bit more clout than Scomo has control over these!.
As far as the collection of data by Government agencies is concerned: I note the "Govt ID" app now requires "photo ID"…..now the Russian hackers will not only have all of my financial details but they'll know what I look like!
😂
Next you will be posting free sky news as a bargain.
Mmmmm very erudite views, thanks fellas!
Chanel 9 tries to go one step further and force you to download their app before watching anything on mobile due to “ show providers require us to use DRM to distribute their content”.
Yet you can request desktop site on mobile browser and watch
I think the bigger issue with any streaming service ever is Apple TV’s lack of a search feature in the browser
You should be grateful a website for it even exists
They should be grateful that i even subscribe
They have so many better things to be doing.
How about 1080p streams?
Hoping that at least I can hide all the Mandarin versions of shows now.
Speaking of which, why is it only Mandarin that they provide dubs for? Where are the aboriginal dubs?
I would guess it's because there's over 100 different aboriginal languages so picking which one to use opens up a whole other bunch of issues.
Ever heard of NITV?
I have. SBS is awesome.
My point was more why have they picked mandarin as their only alternative language.
2nd most spoken language in the world
No big deal, just like many websites the details are fake.
Don’t let Murdoch win this battle. Use a burner account and a password manager if your worried about personal info being captured. It has been the same with SBS for a long time. Support these organisations. You’ll miss them when they’re gone.
Should've been a poll.
Should it though? Lets take a poll and find out.
Storm in a teacup. Just use fake info
Looking at your post history it seems that you're ok with giving your information to a company like Apple but draw the line with the ABC?
Sign up before the Coalition starts using the subscriber number differences between ABC and the commercial channels as yet another justification to defund the ABC.
everybody and their dog wants your DATA DATA DATA nowadays.