Hi All,
One of my known got scammed (2 months ago) and I am reaching out for your valuable suggestions if there is a way to recover money from scammer.
Could you please recon what you would have done if you were at her place to recover the money.
Regards,
Smith
Thanks, so far we were just chasing NAB. Will get in touch with St George bank too. Thanks for valuable suggestion.
The worrying thing is that most scammers use someone else's bank account for this, it's usually just a stopover for the money. By now, the money is probably gone from the St George's account, it's crazy how fast they can do things with the internet.
It was fear this time :)
Transfer the rest of the money to me, I'll promise not to give it to the scammer đđ
Empathy missing.
Emotional Damage!!
Hard to have empathy when you share so little detail.
I didn't realise empathy required a certain level of detail to be provided.
Guess there really is no such thing as a free lunch.
Plenty of info initially before the drastic edit.
Still feels like a rather convoluted troll..
@randomusername2017: Yes I saw it. I am not disputing your comment just wanted to know why he would do that.
I need to remotely connect to your computer to transfer the rest of the money to you
please go to dubbayou, dubbayou, dubbayou…
Oh..I thought you said you were going to insert something into some port…
Your known willingly transferred her money into someone else's account just because they asked her to. That account is surely empty by now and forever abandoned. Recovery of that exact money is impossible, it's already been withdrawn or transferred away and the scammer probably has the biggest smile on their face and is buying their friends and family a fancy dinner. Imagine "making" that much money in just a few hours!
What was the total taken, at least 41k from the sounds of it. You'd think NAB would want to know all about it, like if the scammer already knew your known was a NAB customer or not. Sounds kinda like the scammer had no idea though and this really is all on your known rather than some data leak somewhere.
Thanks for your reply. As she has reported to Police and have got complaint number as well. Why cant NAB chase other bank, other bank might have asked for some type of document before opening the account. Isnt it ?
I guess the fake name and burner phone number the scammer used is personal information which must be protected. The phone number was originally issued by Telstra according to this chart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_Australia#Mobile_phone_numbers_(04,_05), though it may have been ported away from Telstra by the time the scammer got it or spoofed it.
What is the other bank though, who did the scammer bank with? I'm guessing they didn't walk into a NAB branch and open an account in person. They could be using TransferWIse or any other online solution that gets you an Australian bank account in seconds.
One of my known
Who?
Un
Uncle?
Uncle rodger?
@smith1286: Was it another Ozbargainer that got scammed? I thought you meant someone you knew, like a friend of family member, by "known".
@smith1286: No, clarification missing.
'Known' is not a commonly used way to describe a person, so people are seeking clarification on the relationship you have with this person.
@smith1286: 2 months after the fact?
Isn't there a 5k default limit on NAB accounts?
The account owner doesn't sound like they would be capable of requesting an increased limit…
Asking for advice here may be cheaper than a lawyer's consultation..get what you pay for I guess…
He didn't finish typing: known associate.
Just for once… let me… look on you with my known eyes.
That's for OP to know and for us to (apparently not) find out..
The money is gone.
Sounds like your average scammer from India. The money is most likely on the other side of the world by now.
It was an Indian name attached to the Pay-ID. Really makes you wonder how someone can be smart enough to earn that much money in the first place, if they will just let it all go to an Indian scammer in a single evening. I guess being able to instantly spot a scam like this is what my grandfather used to call "street smarts".
Having logical intelligence is not street smarts. However someone with average or below average iqs can pretty much fall for anything, that is between 40-60% of the population. Some people are so stupid they will fall for anything.
Saving money requires 0 intelligence it just requires self restraint to not spend it.
Got to remember that there are thousands upon thousands of elderly who have not kept up with technology or have been in decline cognitively. They may have been in the know back in their day but clearly are clueless to modern day tech. This makes then incredibly easy targets for scams like this and this case is a good example of why.
Have you ever found yourself looking at kids using TikTok, Vine, and Snapchat and thought to yourself, 'The things kids are into these days…'??
Cos if so, you're already falling behind the trends and that could be you one day.
Go to a Current Affair and state that no one will help
They would have 1000's show backlog & this case wouldn't be seen until 2026
worth a 20 cent phone call
20c? Doesn't your phone plan include calls, Pam?
So many low-lifes out there willing to steal from elderly people. A special place in hell for all of them.
Why do they get a special place? Wtf not fair
I imagine all spots in hell will be âspecialâ.
Try harder son and you can earn a special place as well.
There's not much you can do if they knowingly installed dodgy software to send the money out, NAB should of put a block on the second or third transfer anyway… first thing she needs to have done was call NAB after and speak to their fraud department but as she actually transferred the money out it's not looking good, otherwise report to ACORN and get that phone professionally wiped and change all passwords on emails logins etc as it could of been a keylogger or god knows what the app was..
Lots of criticism here but I fear this happening to my older parents all the time.
You would have clearly told them under no circumstance if someone claiming to be from a bank, telstra, ATO etc, to do anything & simply hang up & call you, yes?
That's all they need to remember & they'll be fine.
They are old people. Old people can be forgetful.
Anyone can be scammed under the right circumstances if they're having an off day. There are millions of scams out there and they seem to be getting more clever. It doesn't help that companies like eBay for example, actually have started asking for personal information.
What about your younger parents?
You jest, but my mates dad recently married someone younger than he.
Yes , my children do worry over us too as we are 80 years oldies. One thing is good as we have not much in our accounts. Funny as most of scammers often phone us between 7.00 p.m to 8.00 p.m. They are mostly speaking with Indian ascents. So I assume they are East Asia Indians. On hearing the voice I often make joke with them ask whether they are calling from Calcutta or Bombay and then drop the phone. We know none of Indians here.
Good on you for protecting yourselves.
Best time scammer became active is almost after bank hours or time to go to sleep when you are tired or you cant focus. Also over the weekend. Never rely on generic spam alert like your Visa or Mastercard has been debited. Ask from which bank as you hold multiple cards and want to be sure. Never transfer money via payid unless you know the other person as remittance made over payid works 24/7 even on weekends and holidays so you cannot hold to any bank or branch.
Always check for fraudulent debits or charge yourselves on the laptop before continuing. Just be alert if someone is asking your OTP send to verify that it's you. because you have not initiated the call but they have initiated and you are not obliged to verify. ( Moment you share OTP means the bank will hold them harmless). there is a very thin line between scams and fraud. Fraud means you have been cheated and you have followed all due diligence and you have not been involved, (for eg someone using your CC in Nigeria when you have never even gone in your dreams) but if you have shared OTP or compromised with your PIN or Password then bank cant support your claim.
Also, transfer big amount in call money deposit or fix account where you can only transfer over the laptop and not over mobile. this will protect your funds in case the scammers try to trick you and you can restrict your loss to a minimum.
this will be helpful for people who are not computer savvy like grandparents or old uncles.
Yeah happened to my wife Saturday morning woke up to her phone being ported out and they went after the bank accounts, Telstra doesn't have their fraud department working Saturday which is mind boggling lucky they failed the security questions
I think I had a similar call, sounded like a call centre, are there call centres of fraudsters out there? Do they have normal things like team meetings and 1 on 1s to track how well they are scamming? Do they get fired if they aren't scamming well enough? So many questions…
I agree they are large call centres operating depending upon the nature of the scam they are doing, there are robocalls who will call you and see if you can answer the call and someone will pick it up and start communicating with you and once they feel you have digested their story then they will escalate to next level of an expert who will guide you and squeeze you into the bottle. It's a well-orchestrated exercise and hence you need to be alert the moment you receive any calls from an unknown number till you are very much satisfied. Never call back on the number they have provided but call generic numbers like 13 or 18 numbers from the bank web portal.
Also never search for numbers on google because they have spoofed the google adword for the geo they are targetting and their call centre name will pop up.
Watch Jim Browning on youtube. He pretends to fall for their scams and then does a reverse connection to access the scammers computers and find out all the information about their scam call centre set up. Then he reports them to the authorities.
Also look up kitboga on youtube. he puts on a fake voice and trolls phone scammers. its hilarious.
Yep, precisely.
Scammers and hackers operate like normal businesses.
They interview, get hired, show up to the office, have training sessions etc.
Crazy times.
As silly as this sound (what I am reading) why haven't you gone to the police?
What are you running around "researching" for two months for?
Go to the police!
2 months and waiting….waiting….
The bit that I cant work out, is how did they know that she had an NAB account.
They may not have. They just try and hope to get lucky.
The call I got recently was from "the MasterCard and Visa Support Centre" Surprised they didn't add Amex also…đ
They knew it and they also knew first 8 digit of her debit card.
First eight digits of debit and credit cards are the same for every customer of the particular bank who issued it and the card type. It's called the Bank Identification Number or BIN. https://binlist.net/ - go fiddle there with your card numbers and see the information that comes up once you type in the first four numbers, and then the next four.
How did you guys work all this out from the scant amount of info in this post? I checked the revision history but it's the same?
2 months ago. What was the response from the police and the bank when you reported it?
Your horse has bolted
Police : Don't cry there is big list of people who got scammed. (Your name will be added to the list)
Bank : We are trying to trace transactions, it's been 2 months now. Not sure how capable they are.
Scams prey on the vulnerable. No self respecting OzBargainer would fall for that but I can understand less informed or less tech savvy people being caught out. Thatâs who they target. It doesnât mean they are stupid it just means they are trusting. The best bet is the bank which you have obviously tried it appears. Maybe try harder or try the banking ombudsmanâs office. Maybe threaten the bank with that and they might cave. I think itâs gone for good though sadly.
Yeah this is the problem with some of these posts, the people posting usually have a "vulnerability" e.g. Not up with how tech works, English second language, didn't grow up with and education that these scams can be sophisticated, or maybe just not as sharp as some people. This is what scammers exploit, and then they get exploited again by ozbargain era who are generally a savvy bunch and can't understand why they would get scammed.
Why don't people just try to be helpful and ask the OP to provided the details you need to help? I guess it's more fun for some to throw rocks at the unfortunates, rather than take pleasure in berating them
What what?
There isn't much value in having the PayID and BSB/Account numbers. There is a strong chance that the scammer is actually getting paid via a method that is untraceable (there are many means to accomplish this, BitCoin, Western Union etc) and these scams are often multi-tiered.
It's a strong chance you simply have the PayID and Account numbers of the "next victim" who was contacted by a Prince stuck on an oil rig trying to get his money out of the oil rig but cannot talk due to telecommunication problems. He will have sent the money to the love of his life and asked her to send it on to him using another method. IE the person's details you have is that of a scam victim who is used to exfiltrate the money into something tangible and untraceable - eg Cash, Gold or Bitcoin.
They can't just undo the transactions or strip the money away from the receiver nor would it be fair at the end of the day. The next victim in the scam may have already sent the money on via Western Union / converted it into Bitcoin / Converted it into Gold / whatever the end game of the scammer is and undoing the transactions leaves the next victim $20k in debt to a bank.
Sadly as the bank indicated, the transactions were initiated by your known so they will not reimburse if the transactions cannot be reversed (and all likelihood they can't be) so they won't fork out money to cover the losses (which is fair considering it would be coming out of the pockets of Westpac shareholders and customers via increased fees).
check one of my posts i managed to trace scammer and get my money back
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/650789
But this doesnât really help at all because you got scammed locally.
if there is a way to recover money from scammer.
Generally no.
Tell the older people in your life this one simple rule. - It is always a SCAM, there is no exception. Buy only with your credit card and do not transfer any money to anyone, for any reason, ever.
This.
how come you can open an account in St George that allows you to withdraw without proper 100 point id? Surely you can use that id to trace that person? I guess at this point it becomes a civil matter where you gotta prove that the transaction was illegal and not for some goods/services/money you owe etc?
Else i find it hard to believe so much id is collected by banks first before allowing withdrawals for ATO and AML perspective
Banks will generally refund identify theft, and generally will not refund a scam.
There is a difference.
If your account was hacked or your identity was stolen - generally the bank will reimburse that.
If you willingly transferred the money to the scammer then generally that is not the bank's responsibility - it is yours.
Counter argument
https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/costs/melbourne-widow-âŚ
Interestingly, the scammers used Cuscal, Moonoova, and Elbaite Crypto to do the deal. Never heard of them except Cuscal (which I thought is a Gift card company turns out to be a transactional payment company).
I don't think outlier exceptions can be considered as counter arguments.
Whilst it's great the widow in the article got her money back, the factors between that case and this one are different - volume of money, circumstance, media attention.
It was an interesting story as I know Jacomi (referred to as the widow).
Head of Risk Management at several ASX top 50 companies - so a good warning that though many of us would take the view we wouldnât fall for a scam we should be careful not to be too confident.
Report the fraud to St George bank too.
If she's still competent then ask her to run requests of money by you. Else if you doubt it, then get POA ASAP and have control over their finances.