What to Do about Childcare Who May Have Injured My Child

darkly on 27/05/2022 - 22:43

Unsure what to do here:

My two and a half year old daughter attends a child care centre on Fridays. I dropped her off about 8.30 that morning and she was her usual happy self (while doesn't always like the drop off part, we've been told she settles down after a few minutes).

Upon pickup at 5pm she was not at all happy. They informed us that she had been upset most of the day, she insisted on sleeping early in the day (not usual for her) and completely refused lunch (very unusual for her). Thinking she could be getting sick we headed home for dinner etc.

But we later noticed that she was holding her left arm and was very guarded when any of us came near her. She was upset and clearly in some pain, a dose of neurofen didn't seem to help. Her childcare was still open so we called and spoke to her teach to see if tehy had noticed anything but was told they had not noticed her in pain or any issues with her arm.

By about 6.30 we were concerned and took her to Westmead Children's hospital where we were told she was suffering from a "Pulled Elbow" and it was manipulated back into place with a pop. I wasn't familiar with it and have been reading up on it here: https://www.rch.org.au/kidsinfo/fact_sheets/Pulled_elbow

So far some people have said its common, and others compared it to child abuse. I admit there's no way of us knowing if a childcare worker specifically caused the injury but cant see how else it could have happened. Should I be having a word with the child care centre operators, or reporting to the police?

Does anyone have a similar experience or advice of where to go from here?

Toys & Kids

Comments

  • Quantumcat on 27/05/2022 - 22:48
    +4

    I had never heard of this, definitely not giving my niece dizzy-wizzies anymore 😱

    She could have injured herself falling or another way, you can report the injury to the childcare centre so it is lodged in their records, but I wouldn't worry about it otherwise (unless it happens again or you hear about it happening to another child).

  • Muzeeb on 27/05/2022 - 22:53
    +2

    Monkey bars for sure.

  • trustnoone on 27/05/2022 - 23:10

    Know about this guy that had this happen to them as a kid and the teacher popped it back in and he went on his way. Turns out he's never been able to straighten his arm fully since then and has been a little painful in older age (not super bad, but still).
    IMO I'd ask a copy for your own records of what happened from the center and the records from the GP, just incase you need it in the future. TBH I'd be more annoyed they tried to keep it from you. A slight bump maybe, but a pulled elbow no. I don't know anything about kids, but even I've been told that nowadays you need to let a doctor straighten it out as doing it yourself could cause worse issues if done wrong, so I'm surprised this wouldn't be the first advice for a child care place. Makes me wonder if they pulled her arm too hard or something but honestly it could be kids being kids so I don't know. I'd assume they'd have cameras?

    • Brian McGee on 28/05/2022 - 08:09
      +2

      Turns out he's never been able to straighten his arm fully since the

      Your not mates with Muralidaran are you? Don’t tell Darrell.

  • Dlw on 27/05/2022 - 23:17
    +1

    Talk to the centre so that they are informed. From there they should complete a serious incident report with ACECQA. It’s possible she may have been holding an educator’s hand and lost her footing, resulting in her arm being pulled up. Or perhaps she was climbing on equipment.
    ACECQA may also contact you.

    • Quantumcat on 28/05/2022 - 00:11
      +3

      You'd think that if it happened when a teacher was holding her hand then they would have noticed when something happened. Whereas if it was when she was playing they might miss it.

      • Dlw on 28/05/2022 - 09:50
        +1

        Yes, true. Unfortunately they can’t fully supervise every child 100% of the time so it’s likely it was missed. Although, they should always have someone near high risk activities such as climbing.

  • screensaver on 27/05/2022 - 23:27
    -7

    She came home injured, dont trust the place./ I did work experience in a centre for a day and one young child had seperation anxiety as she was new and they did or said nothing to comfort her. I said Mummy has to go to work. Anyway, they were a non caring lot

    • SF3 on 28/05/2022 - 00:33
      +4

      I did work experience
      they were a non caring lot

      They and you are one of the same. You “work” there.

      They may not appear caring but if you see it every day, it could be mental fatigue. Kids are tough they adapt quickly, because they’ll see mom or dad will come back for them at the end of the day.

      said Mummy has to go to work

      It would be upsetting if they only had a dad.

      • screensaver on 28/05/2022 - 00:39
        -4

        whatever

        • SF3 on 28/05/2022 - 00:41
          +2

          Tu quoque confirmation.

      • morse on 28/05/2022 - 06:48

        Screensaver is right on this one. Some centres are actually pretty bad. They put on a big show when the parents are there and then stop caring as soon as they are out of sight. Sometimes it is due to stress and all the jobs they have to do, but that is an indicator that it’s probably not a great centre. The centres we use do actually spend time cuddling the crying kids who are missing their parents - not all do.

    • netjock on 28/05/2022 - 01:23
      +2

      I did work experience in a centre for a day

      I am surprised you weren't promoted to centre manager by mid day.

      • SF3 on 28/05/2022 - 01:30
        +1

        Pam might put ideas into their minds.

      • screensaver on 28/05/2022 - 02:01
        -1

        I wouldnt work at that centre with the non caring staff they had, even though others dont see that as a problem

        • netjock on 28/05/2022 - 02:02
          +1

          Only way to change things is to get in there

    • pegaxs on 28/05/2022 - 10:08
      +4

      I did work experience in a centre for a day

      Oh well, you should do an AMA on the entire childcare industry… You seem to have a wealth of experience.

      Probably better if you just stick to what you know best, Pam, and that's "cats".

      • screensaver on 29/05/2022 - 00:43

        I did most of the cert 3 training and had a bit more experience than one day, at our own centre. The TAFE refused to give us learner guides so I lleft due to training problems. Many students left.

  • SF3 on 28/05/2022 - 00:30
    +2

    here: https://www.rch.org.au/kidsinfo/fact_sheets/Pulled_elbow

    A pulled elbow is a common injury among children under the age of five. ✅

    A pulled elbow is caused by a sudden pull on a child's lower arm or wrist, for example when a child is lifted up by one arm.
    It can also happen when a child falls.

    Some children are more likely than others to get a pulled elbow. It can happen more than once, and it may occur several times in children who have particularly loose joints.

    To prevent a pulled elbow, make sure you don't pick your child up by the lower arms or wrists – lift them up using their armpits instead. Teach others who care for your child, such as grandparents and child care workers, the correct way to pick up your child.

    …

    I would suggest having a word with childcare, unless you have problems with them. Otherwise open dialogue is helpful. Maybe there is no one to blame.

  • godofpizza on 28/05/2022 - 00:59

    You mentioned Fridays, but how long has your child being attending the centre?
    If they're been attending for a few months/years, staff would been familiar with you child's routine.

    They (should) have called or notfied your about the unusal behaivour.

    Personally, if your not comfortable with send your child there. Let the centre know and start looking for a new centre.

    I've had to pull my child from a centre when they're was invovled in an incident. When i asked what had happened, staff couldn't/wouldn't do anything except ask you to sign a form accepting what happened.They're usualy just wash their hands of the incident and claim they saw nothing.

    • netjock on 28/05/2022 - 01:24

      except ask you to sign a form accepting what happened

      Should say on the form what you are signing off on.

    • darkly on 28/05/2022 - 18:28

      Our family have been attending the centre for 3 years, my daughter for 12 months

      • godofpizza on 28/05/2022 - 23:06

        i would let them know that your now happy with what happened. Although you have every right to be anrgy, it's not always best to take it out a single person ( doing their job) as you may not have all the facts.

  • nerdycat on 28/05/2022 - 06:16

    My toddle has had this a couple of times already, it does happen pretty easily. First time we really didn’t know but mother’s gut instinct told me something was wrong and off we went to hospital. He wasn’t saying much at that stage but he kept saying ouchy, he kept his arm by his side not moving and couldn’t lift it. Eg if we lifted his arm it would just flop back down. He would also grab things with his other hand.

    In terms of it happening at daycare they should have experience with this (it is a common toddler injury) and should have said something to you if they were monitoring your child and they would have needed to complete an incident report. I would go back to the daycare and get them to fill in a report and not a police report. If it does happen again (now that they know) I would pull your kid out.

    We’ve told our daycare about it happening at home so they have added notes onto the toddlers records.

  • morse on 28/05/2022 - 06:40

    The injury itself can easily happen. I would be a little concerned that perhaps one of the educators caused this (probably not deliberately) but then choose not to say anything. They were probably helping her get changed or something and then didn’t want to deal with the paperwork or be in trouble. Surely she would have cried when it first happened. Unfortunately this does actually happen.

    The other thing to consider is whether you’re happy with the class size and level of supervision. In a big class it’s hard to keep track of the kids getting hurt or notice if they’ve been injured. We just moved my 2.5yo from a much bigger class to a centre with a smaller class for this reason. The staff ratio says the same but it’s just easier to manage a smaller group.

    I would talk to the centre and let them know what happened and your concerns. Also ask if you can spend some time in the centre observing her room (I’ve done this in all the centres we’ve tried and I can tell you in one centre it was enlightening even though they knew I was there - one person who was a self proclaimed expert was very rough with the 1yos). Sometimes coming to pick your child up early unannounced gives you a bit of an idea too, ie do the staff seem stretched, are the children playing happily with appropriate supervision levels.

  • rektrading on 28/05/2022 - 07:40
    +1

    Toddlers at the age of ✌️ are soft meat bags. They run, climb, jump, fall and pop all kinds of things out of place.

    • morse on 28/05/2022 - 07:53
      +1

      This is true, but an injury to going unnoticed all day whilst she’s in pain, not eating and crying isn’t ideal.

  • pegaxs on 28/05/2022 - 10:27
    +5

    What to Do about Childcare Who May Have Injured My Child

    Do you have proof that the center caused this injury? "Pulled elbow" could come from any number of places and/or incidences. Did they fall over? Did another kid yank on their arm? Was it done at some other time and she was delivered to childcare like this? I work around kids quite a lot and have seen reactions from both ends of the pain spectrum. Some kids will fall over and get a little tiny scratch and wail the school down in pain, while I have seen kids break wrists/arms and keep playing until the end of recess. So, unless you have some solid evidence or substantial proof, your only real call of action is to visit the center and ask to speak to someone about the incident.

    Next step is, what are you hoping to achieve? Most people get all bent out of shape and then neglect to offer up what they perceive as a possible solution (and 90% of the time it's "MuH CoMpeNsAtiOnZ!!") Do you want the place shut down? Someone to get fired? A massive fine? Free childcare for X time? You need to have a game plan and what you hope to achieve as a positive outcome. So, do you write it off as "kids will be kids and shit happens" or go full nuclear ACA/Tracy Grimshaw/Police/DOCS on them?

    and others compared it to child abuse.

    Are there any other signs? People like to jump on the "child abuse" bandwagon because it's easy and convenient, but unless there is other factors and signs, I think you are going to have a hard time trying to make "child abuse" stick, especially if there are no other recorded cases or examples at this center.

    • SF3 on 28/05/2022 - 13:10
      +2

      There are a category of parents that thinks it never them or the child, and without any sort of “evidence”, they shoot from the hip, it’s always someone else that is in the wrong.

      Could be a plot twist from OP somewhere… OzB pattern trend is, self incriminating evidence not disclosed.

      • pegaxs on 28/05/2022 - 15:00
        +2

        Yep. These are the parents I deal with on a daily basis when I am volunteering at the school. They are "i WaNt mAh CoMpEnSaTiOnZ!!!" time bombs looking for a fuse.

        I was once forced to wear a name tag at the school, and was the only one asked to do so, because I was the only male helping out and one of these "paranoid parent" types was offended that a male was helping and they demanded that I was to wear a name tag just because I was male and if I touched a kid, the kid would know what my name was… (note that I was the only male, so it wouldn't be hard to describe me.)

        It's always about shooting first and dealing with consequences later. And for a lot of them, they don't care, because they always trot out the same lame bullshit argument… "I know now it wasn't the case this time… but what if it was…". They basically want someone to pay for something and are using "wont someone think of the children" logic and just want confirmation bias from everyone that them seeking this compensation is justified. (Basically the sole reason Facebook exists is as a Karen echo chamber.)

    • darkly on 28/05/2022 - 18:36
      -2

      Not looking to go nuclear here, just looking for advice and other people experiences.

      After 24 hours thinking about it, I'll speak with the centre next week and see if they can shed any light on it. Generally, we aren't happy with the centre since they were bought out 12 months ago and all of the existing teachers have moved on. Its starting to look as though we need to move on as well.

  • TEER3X on 28/05/2022 - 10:35

    Ask your daughter if she fell then ask if a teacher hurt her. I know 2.5 years old they can easily remember what happened and all is needed is a simple nod yes or no.

    Most likely she just fell, but obviously report it to the person running the show at the childcare.

    I've personally had some unsatisfactory experiences with childcare, among other things, the educators were sitting around on their phones and not even attending to any of the crying babies.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/05/2022 - 11:01
    +3

    Hold up,

    how have you immediately gone to the "child abuse" "child care worker caused this". That's, honestly, so unlikely to the point of crazy.

    cant see how else it could have happened.

    Probably happened when playing with other kids or on play equipment. Duh. You ever had a parent day at the centre? Ever bothered to rock up and see? Kids practically run around half the day.

    • darkly on 29/05/2022 - 10:10

      Hang on, read what i wrote. "some people have said its common, and others compared it to child abuse."

      I'm not screaming child abuse here, it's simply been compared to it when speaking to some other parents. I'm really just looking for advice on how to approach the situation.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 31/05/2022 - 14:11

        You're backpedaling.

        You clearly said "cant see how else it could have happened."

        Keep them home in bubblewrap and be a helicopter parent.

  • pharkurnell on 28/05/2022 - 11:38
    +1

    What did the day care say when you spoke to them about it?

    • darkly on 28/05/2022 - 18:37

      They had noticed her in any pain, or trouble moving her arm. But it was very obvious to us.

      • darkly on 30/05/2022 - 13:20

        Update.

        Spoke to the centre this morning to get some more information. The manager said she would speak to the team and get back to us. About 10 minutes later she called to say that they saw no issues whatsoever on Friday, she did not cry nor were there and sleeping/eating issues. She also said that they personally goodbye to us when we were leaving and that my daughter said goodbye back (I can tell you right now that this did not occur, she may have mixed us up with someone else).

        It is overall a very different story to what they said on Friday when they "informed us that she had been upset most of the day, she insisted on sleeping early in the day and completely refused lunch".

        I have a feeling we will just be finding a new centre ASAP.

        • godofpizza on 31/05/2022 - 00:04

          Is it a family owned/run centre or a chain child care centre?

  • p1 ama on 28/05/2022 - 12:15
    -5

    So far some people have said its common, and others compared it to child abuse. I admit there's no way of us knowing if a childcare worker specifically caused the injury but cant see how else it could have happened. Should I be having a word with the child care centre operators, or reporting to the police?

    "Child abuse", "Reporting to the police" - you sound like a nutcase and unfit to be a parent, to be honest. I hope that's not how you're teaching your kids to go about their lives.

    • darkly on 28/05/2022 - 18:23

      Are you for real?

      • p1 ama on 28/05/2022 - 20:18
        -1

        Yes, I am, and I'm a parent myself. If you cannot go about life rationally, then how are you setting an example for your kids to do the same?

        I've seen parents threatening similar things as you are plenty of times before. Parents who say that teachers are "abusing" their kids because they "forced" their kid to share classroom activities with other children, or "abusing" their kids because they were told off for doing the wrong thing, or "abusing" their kids because two kids bumped into each other and one now has a bump on their head.

        When parents act this way, they embolden their children to be selfish - that everything is always someone else's fault. You barely know anything yet you're already jumping up and down and saying that your child was abused and that you're calling the police. Is that how a rational adult acts?

        • darkly on 28/05/2022 - 22:49

          I love how being concerned for my child's welfare and asking for advice on the situation makes me a "unfit to be a parent".

          You wake up on the wrong side of reality or something?

          • p1 ama on 28/05/2022 - 23:13
            -1

            @darkly:

            being concerned for my child's welfare

            Being concerned about your child's welfare means you make sure your child gets the appropriate medical care and speaking to the childcare centre so they are aware of what happened and potentially follow up about what they're doing to ensure this doesn't happen again in future. Jumping up and down and yelling "child abuse" and threatening to call the police is not being concerned about your child's welfare.

            makes me a "unfit to be a parent"

            Seems like I hit a nerve - we all have things to learn and can be better people / parents. Don't be so arrogant that your way is the only right way.

            • darkly on 29/05/2022 - 10:13
              +1

              @p1 ama: Again, just read what i wrote. "some people have said its common, and others compared it to child abuse."

              I'm not "yelling child abuse", it's simply been compared to it when speaking to other parents.

              I was looking for advice on how to approach the situation, and really appreciate all the feedback I've been given (with the obvious exception of your trolling non-sense).

              • p1 ama on 29/05/2022 - 23:19
                -3

                @darkly:

                Again, just read what i wrote.

                You literally titled your post "What to Do about Childcare Who May Have Injured My Child" - regardless of the fact that you're now pretending to simply be "fact finding", you clearly led with a specific answer, that the childcare purposefully "injured" your child.

                I'm not "yelling child abuse", it's simply been compared to it when speaking to other parents.

                Again, read your very next line, in which you state "I admit there's no way of us knowing if a childcare worker specifically caused the injury but cant see how else it could have happened." - you are basically saying that despite you admitting there is no way of verifying your claim, you will proceed to make it anyway.

                This basically means that you can make any claim you want - imagine a kid simply fell down whilst running around outside. "I admit there's no way of us knowing if a childcare worker specifically pushed the kid over and kicked him into the ground, but can't see how else it could have happened". That's exactly what you are saying, right?

                Again, despite pretending to be a noble parent who is just trying to care for your child, you clearly are trying to frame up your story in such a way that makes the childcare centre and/or its staff purposefully injured (i.e. abused) your child.

                I was looking for advice on how to approach the situation, and really appreciate all the feedback I've been given (with the obvious exception of your trolling non-sense).

                Read my post again, I gave you advice, which is to rationally approach the situation and not charge in bull-headed like a nutcase. This is not how adults should act and is not how a good parent should act.

  • Any thing on 28/05/2022 - 12:42
    +3

    It doesn’t appear that the childcare centre is trying to hide anything. They informed you that she had behaved differently that day. I would let them know what’s happened.

    • GourmetFoodie on 28/05/2022 - 21:33

      Yes but the kid was in serious pain! Not just a bit off colour! I don’t understand how they could completely miss how poorly the kid was.

  • GourmetFoodie on 28/05/2022 - 21:32
    +2

    Sorry OP but I would pull my kid out of that place immediately.

    This thread has been an eye opener. I am thankful I don’t have my kids in daycare. You can’t trust anywhere!

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