While doing a beans order I stumbled across the lowest price I've seen for this fully manual espresso machine. RRP is $499 and at Alternative Brewing, and currently $409 via Amazon US.
Note this isn't a cheaper machine just missing the boiler or suitable for beginners. Think more of it as a rabbit hole to dive into.
Ha. I have a Niche Zero in black and a five month old. Newborn parenting and caffeine delivery systems with as much faff as the Flair/ROK/etc are incompatible!
1yo, Flair Signature, Niche Zero here! ;)
Respect for your craft! I have an Ascaso Dream PID for espresso and V60 for pourover. I love that the Niche does well grinding at both ends of the spectrum.
@timmypete: Super similar setup here, Niche is great hey? Sad the price has shot up so damn much, picked it up when they first came out for circa $750 AUD!
@frowny: It's a fabulous grinder. When I bought mine the exchange rate was much worse, but shipping has also gone up a lot since too.
It's nothing but cruel irony that having a newborn robs you of the one thing you truly need to handle having a newborn.
HA! Well I have INSTANT coffee for all you people still in the dark ages slaving away at machines for half an hour to make a cup of coffee. All I need is hot water and INSTANTLY I have a coffee ;)
Australia's father of the year 2022
RemindMe! 12 years
Wow, great price!
Any coffee gurus with recommendations for a very affordable grinder (manual or motor) for a friend getting into espresso? They just bought a used Delonghi Dedica for $100, looking to spend $100-150 max on the grinder.
I know if they stretch their budget a bit they could get into 1zpresso, but still very early days - and they don't want to spend much!
Buy it nice or buy it twice.
I have the 1zpresso - love it!
I actually own the 1zpresso J-Max and it has been such a revelation, upgrading from the built in grinder in my Breville Barista Express. That said, I just don't think this friend is ready to make the jump yet!
Have never used it but it really looks as a perfect compliment to the Flair both in price compatibility and the manual experience
@slipperypete: It's really well made and surprisingly enjoyable to use, adds a nice tactile element to the coffee ritual. I take it with me when travelling too!
@poppingtags: I love my J-max, makes adds to the whole experience of making espresso I feel, plus it looks and feels so nice
Would highly recommend the 1Zpresso JX-pro, it's higher than your friend's range, but it's one of the best you can get at that price.
Mine is 9 months old and doing two 18g doses daily, have not skipped a beat.
1zpresso are great, own the J-Max myself!
As timmypete mentions the Timemore Chestnut C2 is worthwhile looking at. I use it when travelling for Aeropress and V60 drip coffees, and have been very happy with it's consistent results. I have not had much experience with this grinder for espresso though, as whilst at home I use a Ceado single dose electric grinder.
I have this and is perfect for Aeropress. I don't think it is so good for espresso tho. But like you have never used it as I have a separate 'at home kit'
i have the JX-pro as well, its what a great all-rounder grinder!
i use it for espresso, french presses and cold brew and its great!
Would the 1Zpresso JX-pro hand grinder be an upgrade over Breville Smart Grinder Pro? I am at the finest setting on the Smart Grinder and it's not enough. I also wanna start doing single dosing shots
I upgraded to the jx pro from the breville and it is noticeably better.
I absolutely agree with jojomo. I started on a Dedica with bottomless portafilter and a Breville Smart Grinder Pro. Ended up replacing both.
If the budget doesn't stretch to a 1zpresso I'd probably suggest a Timemore Chestnut C2 or looking for an electric burr grinder on the swap pages/scumtree.
Haven't used the C2 myself but all of the Timemore stuff I have has been excellent on the performance/price curve and it reviews well.
I tend to agree, but they're still not quite ready for the leap. I think going used for the grinder might be a good way for them to experiment without losing much if any money.
I've had a look at Timemore's range, and while the pricing is great - as the review states, none of them are particularly suited for espresso.
With so much competition in the space already, I wouldn't be surprised if Timemore, 1zpresso or another East Asian upstart come up with a $100-150 grinder capable of doing Espresso. The JX series actually isn't too far off that price point!
I think you'd get away with espresso on the C2 with the Dedica (the pump is weedy, and 17g and coarser-than-espresso grind was the most I ever seemed to get out of mine) and with such a limited budget.
But definitely agree it would need to be replaced if/when the friend moves to a new machine.
+1 for the Timemore for affordability. I use mine a lot.
Do you use yours for Espresso? If so, would love to know which model and what coffee machine you use with it :)
@poppingtags: I have the Timemore nano+ and find it great for both pour over (Clever / Aeropress) and espresso (La Pavoni). The only issue is it takes a lot longer to grind for espresso
What is the issue with Breville BCG820BSS The Smart Grinder Pro Coffee Grinder?
For the original request from poppingtags the SGP was too expensive for the friend, but it's otherwise a reasonable-but-not-excellent entry to midrange option.
In my particular case I found the grind size variability on the SGP was enough that I could notice it. For V60 and pourover there were too many fines, which led to a muddier brew. For espresso it led to a bit too much variability across shots.
SGP also retains a fair bit of coffee between grinds which meant my first cups of the day were stale. I did invest in a bellows mod which did help a bit but wasn't worth the additional cost.
I've ended up with a Niche Zero which has conical burrs from a commercial machine and a consumer grade motor. It is excellent for espresso and very good for V60 & Aeropress. I like having both options in one unit - the expense, space and effort of having a second flat burr grinder for the coarser grinds wasn't worth it for me. It's also way better at retention, but not perfect. I do use a small pastry bellow (and shirt collar bar to override the safety) to puff out the last bit.
I've ended up with a Niche Zero
Just to be clear, this is ~$1600, right?
@fookos: It was sub $1k when I bought it from Niche direct from the UK, but yes a much more expensive grinder than the SGP/single dose mod I had before.
Was at a friend's house and for the life of me couldn't work this grinder with a bdb. Started at the 18 grind setting and ending up at 1 setting, and all the shots were gushers/crazy channeling.
puck prep with no scale, no bottomless portafilter, no wdt, Breville tamper 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Cool.. good price!
This is perfect for camping
Is that the signature or the pro2 with silicone handle?
Did not think of this… use it while we go on camping / caravan holidays. Could be the justification i need. One more night to sleep on it. haha
Great little unit - had mine for 4 years.
My recommendations:
Steam preheat the cylinder - on top of your kettle or on the base of a 2-3 cup moka pot (which is what I use) or a Turkish cezve.
If you want to pull back to back shots, get a second bottomless portafilter at a minimum - but even better is a whole brewhead (portafilter, cylinder & plunger or pressure gauge kit - although this set already comes with a plunger AND a pressure gauge kit, so you would only really need the portafilter and cylinder).
The main issues with the Flair workflow: 1. separating the brewhead while it is piping hot (not too bad, but hot!), and 2. cleaning out the portafilter (the one that will really slow you down). So having a second portafilter will make back to back shots much quicker. Having a second brewhead will avoid having to burn your fingers!
I actually have 2 cylinders/PGKs, and 4 portafilters. Pulling 2 shots back to back is super simple! Pulling 4 shots back to back is not so bad (no cleaning required, but have to pull apart and reset the cylinders for the second two shots). Pulling 8 shots back to back (which I did last weekend) is still a pain in the butt!
Anyway, great unit. I'm upgrading to an Argos, but will keep the Flair as my work / travel unit.
This would be quite a showy piece to deploy in the work kitchen each morning!
I had a colleague that used to go full Brunswick Barista with a V60 in the office. This woulda won the arms race.
I aeropress at work, or bring in a vacuum flask of pourover (an Ozbargain-spec Zojirushi, of course).
A mate has the full spec Flair 58 Pro at his partner's place interstate, and a ludicrous setup at home.
It's actually already featured on my workplace Intranet (profile piece I wrote about mindfulness, in which I discussed the coffee making ritual as an almost meditative experience, and example of a mindfulness practice). A bunch of folks have already asked me to bring it in one day to make them a coffee! :)
I'm kind of glad the argos is taking forever, I wanted to get it as a first machine but I managed to snag a secondhand BDB for dirt cheap and now I'm questioning if I actually enjoy espressos over filter brews.
Has it arrived yet? Will it arrive?
Argos, you mean? Hasn't yet - but I have pretty high confidence in Ross. He has been extremely transparent with everything, and he's sold a bunch more units than anticipated (without being crazy and increasing the scope of production too much), so I think he has more than enough capital to see this thing through.
If I think of it like a Kickstarter, it's been the best and most responsive one I have ever backed. I'm very very confident I'll have mine sometime this year! :)
I hope you get it. It's got everything I want except large boiler size.
At the recent coffee show in Milan he said they will have the rest of the production parts in the next two or so months and will then start assembling. Sounds like first production units may roll out this year but is getting tight. Good luck!
Based on product image alone, it appears that the Amazon US listing is the updated model with the Grey Centre Column & Textured Rose Gold. Whereas the Direct Coffee one has a Black Centre Column & Smooth Rose Gold.
I'm assuming it still the same and that Direct Coffee are clearing out old stock, hence the discount.
Image Comparison: Amazon US vs Direct Coffee
Is it just cosmetic differences?
Keen to know the differences too.
The information that I mentioned above was passed on from a relative (I don't drink coffee).
Apparently this reddit post could be the reason why it was updated
I have the somewhat similar leverpresso.
The drawbacks are the inability make double shots or multiple shots in a way that won’t be frustrating, the hassle of warming it and the hassle of cleaning it.
It also has a small water chamber, limiting if you want a little more volume.
I found it limiting all up, though it makes excellent single shots.
I have a Gaggia Classic Pro now, and am happy with fuss free double shots I can control with a button.
Great price, thanks a lot. Price on Comandante Mk 3 (i.e. the old version) isn't bad either.
I don't know what it is or what it does. But it does look very steam punk.
I want this. Although I don't think it would get the use it deserves given the myriad of other coffee equipment I already have :(
This is an insane price. If it wasn't that I only just bought a new (automatic) espresso machine I'd be all over it.
im happy with my picopresso, it is such an awesome brewer, much lighter, can do shot after shot easy. cost only $130-140.
I have a Nanopresso (which is the same basic workflow as the Picopresso) and I wouldn't say that the Picopresso/Nanopresso has better shot to shot workflow than the Flair Signature…if anything I would suggest the ability to buy multiple cylinders makes the Flair much much easier to pull back to back shots. (But, at a significantly higher price and size premium, obviously).
I would absolutely hate pulling 8 back to back shots (like I did on the weekend with my Flair) on the Picopresso/Nanopresso, but that's me! :)
But yes, Picopresso looks like an absolutely legit unit - I'm sure I will pick one up at some stage! (Been meaning to, but it's a low priority, especially given my lack of travelling recently!)
For mostly home usage, I would choose the Flair, personally. For those that prioritise portability, absolutely, consider the Picopresso instead!
The Pico is excellent in terms of portability and weight/performance but I find it a pita to set up and clean up vs my rok presso. Imagine this flair would be even better? I don't like the plastic brew chamber of the Rok & Pico units. Is this Flair steel?
No, I believe the Signature has some plastic components, whereas the Pro 2 (which used to be called the Signature Pro 2 but 'Signature' was removed to avoid confusion between the models) has improved chamber - larger PF diameter and water capacity - and upgraded to stainless steel.
@fookos: Yes you're right. This signature version includes a steel plunger with the gauge kit, which is great, but the piston is plastic - whereas it's steel in the pro. And the plastic piston appears to make contact with hot water. Damn.
@bargainshooter: You don't use the plastic piston when using the pressure gauge kit. The PGK replaces the piston. (You can also get a stainless piston, if you don't want to use the PGK).
Also the portafilter is a thin layer of stainless in a plastic shell, and the dispersion screen is stainless (original version is a thin stainless sheet held in by a silicone ring). Not sure which dispersion screen this comes with - but easily replaced if wanted.
Top rim of the pf and bottom of the pressure gauge stem are the only bits of plastic that come in contact with water, I think.
Fwiw, you can also buy full stainless pressure gauge stem…but that is custom and not cheap! Lol (better off just getting the stainless piston)
Edit: Actually, correction: the top rim of the portafilter is stainless (the sheet bends over the rim), so plastic contact should be minimal if any. I think you should be able to achieve no plastic contact (using the stainless steel plunger or custom pgk stem).
@caprimulgus: So the stainless piston sounds interesting - but suspect it won't work with the gauge? Is the pro2 fully stainless steel, including the pressure gauge part that comes in contact with water?
@bargainshooter: Nah, the pressure gauge stem is plastic on the Pro 2 as well. For no plastic, you would need to get a custom stainless stem, or use the stainless piston (no pressure gauge).
Otherwise, I believe the Flair 58 is no plastic. The pressure gauge on that is fully stainless.
@bargainshooter: Just wanted to add: you don't NEED to use the pressure gauge every time / at all. It's a handy reference, and allows for more accurate control…but once you get the feel for the pressure, you can pull shots by muscle memory / feel. Also, you can watch or measure (output) flow, which is arguably more useful / important.
You could use the pressure gauge only in the beginning when you're new to it, or just for a shot or two when dialling in new beans - and then switch to the stainless piston for no plastic.
@bargainshooter: I bought my steel piston direct from Flair when they were still shipping to Australia.
I just checked their website, and it looks like they don't actually stock it any more! You might try emailing them to see if they have any stock on hand (eg. for warranty replacements) that they can sell you. Just tell them you are trying for no plastic contact, so really need it!
My understanding is that they won't sell to Australia from their website (because of exclusive distribution agreements), but where a product/part is not available from the distributor (Bombora Supplies in Australia), then they will potentially ship them out to Australia.
Alternatively, seems like this shop in Singapore still has them in stock:
https://www.drinkspeople.asia/products/flair-espresso-maker-…
Last resort would be joining the Brew with Flair group on Facebook, and asking on the buy/sell post for a stainless piston - there might be someone around willing to sell you theirs.
Good luck!
@caprimulgus: Great tip - thanks :)
I'm still on the fence between this or holding out for a deal on the Pro 2.
I wouldn't mind having a lever machine at home to complement my boiler machine - and was thinking about upgrading my nanopresso for travel anyway, but this would be better and is only double the cost. I am torn about it, but the price is very nice compared with the Pro 2. Can you fairly comfortably dose 18-19gms in the Signature?
@fookos: I use 15g, and I'm not sure I have ever tried more than 16g or 17g maybe…but have seen lots of people dose 18g on the Signature. 19g might be pushing it - would probably work on some beans but not all, I'm guessing.
If 18g (and maybe 19g) is enough for you, Signature may be OK for you. But if you want 19-20g doses, then Pro 2 is probably the better option (although Pro 2 has the opposite problem of struggling with lower doses, below 16g or 14g, I think, due to the tapering basket).
The other main difference is diameter - Signature is smalleqr, so pucks will be taller and narrower (coarser grind), while Pro 2 will have shorter and wider (finer grind) for the same dose.
@caprimulgus: Thanks - the descriptions on dosage differ for this model website to website - some say 16-24, while other say 16-22. Commonly read with an extraction volume of 45ml.
The flair site itself reads 12-18g in, and 40 out.
Varying numbers, but that latter one would be in line with your experience.
i'd not realised that was a thing!
have a nanopresso already, pico looks amazing
thanks
In case anyone cares, the Flair 58 (electric) is $680 + shipping at Barty
That is an awesome price!
Just note, from the description, it sounds like this is the original production run before the valve plunger was introduced (doesn't include valve plunger, puck screen or funnel).
There was a $46USD conversion kit to upgrade the original Flair 58 to the latest design, but that appears to be out of stock on Flair website (they dont ship to Australia anyway, but just not sure if they are restocking them) and couldn't find anywhere selling the set in Australia (pieces sold separately, at a much higher cost).
I only had a quick look, but you might want to do a more thorough search before buying. (From my quick look, it looks like $170 shipped for all three parts, sold individually, from Alternative Brewing.)
Old design should work absolutely fine though: the new design revision mainly just makes it easier to refill (can refill the chamber while the lever is down, and raising the lever pulls the water down), otherwise you need to lift the lever and remove the plunger to refill - not a massive deal, but less efficient for back to back shots.
Just FYI, anyone who is buying the Flair 58 from Barty, and wants the updated valve plunger, Flair have confirmed that they will ship the upgrade kit to Australia (as an exception, because it's not available here). Just contact then here: https://flairespresso.com/contact/
That the Flair 58 doesnt come in white means I'm saved from buying either the signature or the 58 .. yay! :P
Historically people have had a lot of issues ordering gear from Barty, they had committed to improving their processes. I did a quick google, also seems like they pseudo deleted their google location or something as they no longer come up as a business (along with all of the associated reviews).
Hasn't been any major negative feedback so there is a fair chance this might have improved.
Pay using a method that offers you some kind of additional protection for piece of mind would be my recommendation.
Not cheap but I just got the updated flair 58 (but not the coming update) from Alternative Brewing ebay for about $770 shipped after discount code and cashback of giftcards
Legend! Always wanted one of these as a backup/show off piece, but couldn't justify the RRP
I'm all over it at that price. Having just had our Oscar 2 in for repairs and living off Aeropress coffee, this will be very welcome and will look sweet next to the white silenzio.
And I super appreciate the text review inclusion in the op, thanks
What's this? Since when we went back to bow and arrows, lol?
Great price but I’m torn whether to add this to my espresso collection or to not be swayed by the deal price and opt for the Flair Pro2 at some point. The Pro2 is the successor to the Signature, with some enhancements - including the PF size, water chamber size, and capacity. A bit more stainless steel componentry v plastics.
I grind with Niche at home, which does espresso quality grinds. For home I could achieve great espresso with both models. On-the-go, my hand grinder might be more suited to the Signature. Who am I kidding? I know I’ll end up upgrading my hand grinder too… sheesh.
I noticed the review suggests the signature flair has plastic components in the brew head vs the pro2 - is that correct?
The contemplation to buy this is real. But dont know if i want to do all that extra work for an espresso
thks my morning exercise sorted out
How is this vs something electric like a BDB? Both make Espresso so would there be any point in getting a flair if I already have an Espresso machine?
It's a different experience. The grinder is probably a more important part of the equation. If you were (good at) using this and ran something like a niche zero it would pull much better shots than the bdb and it's grinder. Purist would say you have more control over the shot so better quality shots even if the grinder was equivalent. But the workflow is totally different. If you pull for the whole family every Sunday lunch then the bdb would be wayyy better. If it's just a single shot each day then the flair is pretty fun to use and that downside not an issue.
To add on, keep in mind that the basket size on the flair is smaller, so you wont be able to share the tamper/dosing funnel/distributor across them
Anyone have experience between this and the rok presso for camping? I have the rok for camping but this is very tempting.
not for camping but I had a Rok at work. I love the simplicity of the Rok, but the flair makes better brews, even though it is more fiddly with more parts.
From the review above I found this for the Pro 2 "Both the portafilter and dispersion screen are made from stainless steel rather than plastic." So is the Signature portafilter and screen made of plastic? Confused now…
this is the best portable espresso machine you can get I highly recommend this brand for sure the Flairs are amazing. Combine this with a manual proper grinder (Comandante C40 ), fresh roasted beans and you have good espresso where ever you go.
Good shout! I haven't used my lido in ages, this'll be a good excuse to fire it up again.
great machines! next level up from aeropress (even with the fancy expresso attachment) and worth the $
Theres no way this is an upgrade.
Look at the video link below, by the time you actually get any coffee out of this convoluted contraption it'll be stone cold. Also, you have to 'make some tiny bean spreding device' and, 'find something around the home which you can use to prop the cylander ontop of the kettle'.
Let's be honest the people buying this are either trying to increase there self-esteem or hoping it provides a sense of belonging, not for the sake of good coffee XD
I guess this would be good for cold pressed coffee?
Great find!! It would look great next to my white gaggia classic pro & niche grinder…
If i didnt have a new born I'd have snapped this up. My son if you read this in a few years time. I spent it on nappies.