Happy Federal Budget Evening.
Treasurer Jim Chalmers has delivered his 3th Federal Budget.
What are your thoughts?
ABC - Winners and Losers
2024-25 overview (budget.gov.au)
Previous years discussion (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017).
Federal Budget 2024 Discussion
Gdsamp on 14/05/2024 - 20:06
Last edited 14/05/2024 - 20:06
Last edited 14/05/2024 - 20:06
Poll Options
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- 92Unhappy
- 14Don't care
Comments
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So the more I pay for my eggies and milk, the richer Scotty gets?
Unfortunately that hasn't been the case. In our experience, more people come to OzBargain when they have more disposable income (e.g. during the pandemic). And when there's a cost of living crisis, the last thing people want to know is how they can save $50k on a Lotus Eletre. After all, most things featured on OzBargain aren't really everyday essentials.
Interesting @Scotty. Thought the Amazon and supermarket posts would drive a bit of traffic. Guess not…
I think what he is saying makes perfect sense. I know when I was saving for my house build one of the things I did was stop looking at OzB for a while as if you don't see stuff you don't impulse buy. Bargain or not you are only really saving money if you needed to buy something in the first place and many things on here are definitely in the not essential bucket.
Yeah but supermarket deals are hard to align with for some people. For us at least, we typically plan a weeks (or more) worth of meals and buy accordingly - thus what particular things are on special don't necessarily line up. I presume that if we were in a worse position financially, we would potentially change this behaviour to shopping deals and then planning meals according to what we were able to purchase, in which case the supermarket deals would matter.
@Chandler: That's why sometimes you spend to save — people with disposable income can buy the discounted items outside the usage cycle, ie bulk buy toilet paper when on special & store up. Unfortunately those on strict budget can't afford (thus might end up spend more).
just dont ever apply for a marketing job because clearly you dont know
/s
Reading some of the bargains and comments here, I'd say a significant proportion of our community is NOT struggling at all.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone here loves a bargain, be it for daily necessities, or for that must-have $200k+ automobile.
Vote @Jv for treasurer
He’d win on preferences
He would have a
commentcomeback for any MPI’d be interested to know what sort of bold policies he’d put forward.
I wouldn't. I don't think the guy would do any work. If you look at his post history he posts continuously during the period of 9am-5pm, sometimes hundreds of comments a day.
im not hating it but it is certainly inflationary the biggest losers are those with a home loan as this will keep rates higher for longer, maybe even will push another rate rise…..
if you're 'saver' or cash rich with money in HISA you would be pretty happy
I can't see how it's overly inflationary. The government has to spend money to support its citizens, and the majority of the spending does that whilst still retaining a surplus (which the Liberals failed to do for over a decade)
The ABC article mentions how the $300 energy credit is set to curb inflation by ~.5%. The spending also seems focussed on getting Australia to be more self-sufficient, and less reliant on migration/fossil fuels/live exports/international university students. Just about everyone seems to benefit from this budget and it's still set to curb inflation according to the ABC and quotes from the (admittedly biased) government
Haven't looked, assuming the middle class will get the shaft.
Albo's Australia
Im not a fan of this government but lets be frank that is the running theme no matter who is in power? The working poor (anyone who needs to work to survive regardless of income) usually get shafted
Greens only care about the bums of society and those donating billionars donating via shrouded measures
ALP and LNP care about those 'donating' to their parties usually banks, mining etc essentially billionars donating directly
It's clear the NDIS probably needs to be scrapped
I like the idea of bringing back manufacturing but I'm super sceptical on the possibility of that happening
I like the idea of bringing back manufacturing but I'm super sceptical on the possibility of that happening
Wages are too high and employment conditions too good for that to happen
hence why im skeptical - it isnt just wages, conditions in Australia compared to other nations [3rd world nations] such as all the red tape of doing business very difficult
but i support the idea we need to do more then just mining and immigration
@ThithLord: Clearly it makes exports uncompetitive.
We're very good at digging up and selling dirt though@Gdsamp: We are - probably the best in the World at it.
It drives so much of this nation's prosperity.
@ThithLord: 4 weeks annual leave [with leave loading]
12-13 public holidays
madatory super [12 percent soon]
high saftey standards in workplaces
insuranceAlbo is reponisble for none of these - it is the unions and the working class fight for better conditions - Bill Shortern was actually investigated for thowing the workers under the bus [taking a bribe] when he was the union rep - perhaps ALP in the 70s, 80s, early 90s cared but if you think ALP 'now' care about workers than im not the ignorate one mate they have not been the working mans party for about 2-3 decades.
nether party cares about the working class - ill give the nationals credit because they do care about farmers and country workers but dont care about anyone in the cities - but the true majors Liberals and ALP care about their donors and themselves. Greens/Teals are not better but they hide it better.
@Trying2SaveABuck: The nationals.. haha, you're kidding? The Mining party. That's all there is. All their members are cosplaying farmers.
wages are too high? i supposed those swiss watchmakers, german car engineers, dutch superyacht builders or swedish robotics makers are working on 5 euros/franc/krona an hour.
people keep saying that we cant make stuff here because wages are too high but forgetting that europeans are a manufacturing powerhouse, japan is a manufacturing powerhouse and so are the americans. the reason why we dont have manufacturing is because aussie products are not innovative or world class. you can charge anyone anything if you have a world class product.@zoombie: Yeah this is pretty much the best argument. I don't think anyone is saying we should start making cheap crappy plastic widgets.
We should be manufacturing cars, planes, robots, BATTERIES, renewables tech. Stuff that requires immense amounts of space to build and test is a great one too. Things that require high degrees of precision and expertise. Even consumer/enthusiast products like Audio, Tools, etc.
We should be aiming for "Made in Australia" should to be equivalent to "Made in Germany", not "Made in China".
I honestly see us being able to easily build a reputation of "This does the job well and is tough as shit". Basically "You know it works well and will continue to do so without being complicated to maintain." Buy It For Life kinda stuff.
@Mexay: why would you think we could have a reputation of "this does the job well and is tough as shit"? look at our finely built houses/apartments. these arent 'cheap' built and yet they would collapse on their own :smile:
@zoombie: Because you can change your national reputation over time by consistently delivering high quality goods
A country/company renowned for producing high quality products can quickly lose that reputation by no longer meeting expectations. If Australia consistently exceeded expectations for our manufacturing quality and exported goods, we would gradually gain a better reputation. We'd be a more desirable place to manufacture expensive things that could pay high wages to our population (making the whole manufacturing in Australia thing feasible in the first place)
We already do this to a certain extent with our beef, seafood, truffle, cheese, olive oil and wine exports
@zoombie: Surely its a combo of the high cost of manufacturing in Australia and the lack of quality products/innovation.
Take Solar Panels for example, currently a hot topic and people think we should be come a super power in solar panel production. Reality is the panels we produce will be expensive and merely on par with panels coming out of a country like China.
Then the government, to support that local manufacturing, would likely put taxes on imported panels to encourage buying local panels. So then we just left with a bunch of expensive panels which are then subsidized further with our taxes (ie rebates on installing solar for example).
Obviously thats just a hypothetical but even if we had innovative world class products, they would still be too expensive compared to the alternatives. The average person does not care about 'Australian made', they like the fine balance between cost vs quality.
@Nebargains: @nebargins i beg to differ. In pretty much any product categories there are products that are leaders/innovators, middle price, and low cost producers.
The cheapest Patek watch cost at least $20k, there is a long list of other manufacturers (swiss and non swiss) that goes down in pricing. Does Patek have a problem selling their watches?
This is just one example, I can give you numerous examples of other line of products whether it's bicycles, cars, electronics etc… In fact, on this very website, there are often German made screw drivers and pliers (Wera and Knipex) deals that are way way more expensive than the chinese made. Does ozbargainers (who are super sensitive to pricing) buy them?? F___ yeah. Why? Because quality matters.
You used the example of solar panels, lets assume for a second that we could produce innovative product that could compete with China. And assume for a second that our product cost 2X more on the market. I can guarantee you there will be buyers at 2X the cost. What you have to do is offer more value, you could compete on service, on warranty, on marketing and messaging. To say that well, we got an expensive product therefore no one will buy it is a simplistic assumption.
The richest man in the world is a guy selling $10k handbags, according to you, he shouldn't exist.
The problem in Australia is not high wages, but rather we lack the brain cells to make innovative products and how to market them.
Just for fun:
https://www.specialized.com/au/en/s-works-stumpjumper-t-type… — here is a bicycle that cost as much as a car. I see lots of Aussie riding around on their bicycle.Edit:
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/panels/solarwatt-review.html - German made solar panels. 30 yrs warranty vs the usual 10-15 yrs.
Agreed. It will be VERY difficult for Australia to competitive at all. Just look at what CFMEU has done to unskilled labourers. Demading $2500/week salary for what? Sweeping floors or flipping a lollipop sign and talking on the radio?
What would replace NDIS? It's expensive but there's tonnes of people with disabilities who need help. I wouldn't want a society where we just forget about them.
put the funding into medicare add in mental health and Allied health into medicare - give the benefit to everyone but it stops the random OT billing 5k for a new rail in your house
@Trying2SaveABuck: So how would someone that requires a new rail fitted have that funded? It's not the fact that it's funded that's the issue (the funding is the point of the NDIS) but that people are over-charging for it. Controlling that aspect of it is all that needs done, not that I'm saying it's easy, just that it's the aspect that is the major problem.
A family member receives NDIS funding and it has really helped their quality of life. One service provider recommended that we apply for funding to remodel our bathroom to provide a minimal (and very dubious) benefit to this family member. It was going to be of the order of $20-30k. I fixed the issue by getting the family member to use the other toilet. The default of "throw money at the problem and it might help" is a big part of what needs to change.
@banana365: I think you're absolutely right. The problem is that oversight costs money and takes time, so finding some kind of balance is the answer.
@foursaken: Yes, oversight isn't cheap. I think there should be a blanket "Don't take the piss" when receiving any sort of funding and a random selection made of 10-20% of applications for scrutiny. If you're found to be taking the piss, you're blocked from all future funding. To be clear, this applies to the agencies/companies doing the charging, not the end recipient.
@banana365: Yep, and I'm sure they already do something similar! But there are always going to be examples that you can pick out of the pile and say "Look at this!" There's just too much money involved and too many people want a piece of it.
Fundamentally I think the NDIS does good work and is going to need continual gentle tuning much like Medicare. I'm sure at some point the LNP are going to try to destroy it though.
We need the NDIS, or something like it, but not in its present form. There's too much fraud, inefficiencies and excessive profits in the system. My wife works in the sector and the stories she tells me are mind-blowing. It's a massive gravy train for so many. One in three jobs currently being created is in the NDIS sector.
I like the idea of bringing back manufacturing but I'm super sceptical on the possibility of that happening
We'd have to import more skilled people. The manufacturing industry can't get enough skilled trades as it is now, training people up takes years. Then despite the good wages it's hard to get the younger generation interested in it vs going to university.
It isnt 'that' simple you can't just bring in electricans, Plumbers, Builders etc their are regulations, standards and laws that need to be complied with that most nations 'dont have' esp the nations people are migrating from.
you need to train people which takes time and can be expensive
you are 100 percent correct regarding getting 'young people' interested in skilled trades - growing up the push was 100 percent go to uni from my parents despite my father being a tradie.
i dont know how you change that 'culture' around work as tradies are well paid but the nature of the job/s is always going to be hard work
for what it is worth Jim isnt a bad teasurer i dont like Albo [i know you and many other OPs are hard ALP voters so im not tryign to offend you] as a PM but Jim seems to be way less stupid and fair more level headed - i wonder if he will lead the party one day he would be a better leader from what ive seen
@Trying2SaveABuck: It is not simple, but it can be done if there is willingness. It is quicker to just train people who already have good core skills, experience and knowledge. They just have to pass the tests for the standards and regulations.
Greens only care about the bums of society
What are the bums of society?
The greens may have few controversial stands, like siding with palestine etc, but most of their policies seem to be sided with the working poor.
Instead of keep voting for the same old guys and then keep complaining about them in an eternal cycle, why not at least give the Greens a chance to be in power to see what they really can deliver?The irony is Trying2SaveABuck's thing is "oh, just being a brave Christian walking the path of the Lord" as an identity but when it comes time to talk about the downtrodden, unwashed and otherwise unrepresented they're "bums".
Which is exactly the sort of thing Jesus advocated for, of course. He might as well be quoting the Beatitudes directly.
Don't worry Australian middle class, the housing crisis isn't ending anytime soon. Your investment properties will keep earning and keep going up in value, at least for now.
im from Victoria properties have gone backwards the last 12 months
but i do take your point esp if you're from NSW that state is f—ked, i dont know how anyone affords to live there. The entire city must just be CEOs, surgeons and investment bankers
What even is "middle class" on Australia nowadays?
Back to back budget surpluses. Wow. The previous government couldn't even deliver one surplus despite many promises. Who's the better economic managers? I certainly know who the better salesmen were.
It still beats a projected surplus some years in the future.
Jesus, do you believe the absolute TRIPE coming out of your keyboard? Holy crum - what an absolute garbage-level take on Labor's excellent and sound policy.
Delivered the # 1 performing economy during the GFC (and rightfully awarded thusly) and you sit here like IT WAZNT AS GUD AS COSTELLO DELIVEREEEDDD, when Australia was seeing a mining boom.
You're embarrassing.
Labor surplus is a ‘technical’ surplus as they’ve shifted spending and hidden things around to make it a surplus.
Jesus, man. This is such garbage.
A technical surplus… These jokes write themselves! A budget surplus is a budget surplus, despite printing T-Shirts and getting Mugs made up the last government couldn't achieve any kind of surplus and if you think they wouldn't have resorted to any kind of trickery to get there - please share your drugs.
That surplus you're harking back to - you mean the one that Howard and Costello splurged to try to stay in government instead of taking the money and well… I don't know how about start a sovereign wealth fund with all the resources money? Both sides of politics have made terrible deals and ensured we've got the least possible amount of money back on our "boom".
I expect to get negged but honestly - you're in no way being objective here.
When you win $10k at the track this week you don't get to say look at how well I am controlling my spending and savings because you now have $5k in the bank after spending the other $5k on debts while at the same time commiting to a future $20k of additional debt. That is effectively what Labor have done, they have gotten windfalls, increased their spending and then claiming look how good they are
@gromit: Hey, congrats! You've worked out how a government spending works! Surprisingly, this is how ALL governments spend money. Sometimes they borrow money in order to spend it! But that seems to be only a bad thing when labor does it?
Also, I didn't see labor printing teeshirts and mugs.. "back in black"..
And lastly bloke, Big Tones came in at $280b government debt. ScoMo was dumped at $895b. Hush.
you mean the one that Howard and Costello splurged to try to stay in government instead of taking the money and well… I don't know how about start a sovereign wealth fund with all the resources money?
You mean like the Future fund that was created in 2006 by Howard and Costello?
"The Future Fund is Australia's sovereign wealth fund. Our purpose is to invest for the benefit of future generations of Australians. Established in 2006 to strengthen the Commonwealth's long-term financial position, today the Future Fund is the country's single-largest financial asset."Both sides of politics have made terrible deals and ensured we've got the least possible amount of money back on our "boom".
100% agree here.
@moar bargains: There are always items in our countries budget that are inconsistent with how personal budgeting is done so the example isn't great but I take your point (I don't entirely agree that's what they did but there is some element of that, there is always an element of kicking the can down the road in the federal budget)
Please, the future fund is pathetic and over committed to items like guaranteed benefit super systems for a range of ex government employees including politicians. There could be some argument on that as they have deferred pulling funds from it, kicking the can down the road on a giant unfunded liability! I honestly didn't start that sentence intending to, but I just proved what I said above.
For reasons we both agree on its also anemic compared to what it should be because both sides of politics are weak on Australia actually getting the money we should be from our resources booms.
Please extract yourself from your rear - you seem to be suggesting the party that gave us the PM and minister for everything are all above board and transparent compared to Labor.
By the way, which party was it that claimed a surplus before the accounts were done?
There was a little, minor inconvenience called covid - and the overreaction to it - that got in the way remember.
They had 6 years before that to deliver and didn't.
Sure, and just before that Labor had years to deliver and didn't.
@R4: Irrelevant because
1) they had the GFC
2) they didn't have a massive PR campaign saying they would get "back in black"Superfans of the liberal party hate it being pointed out but the only Australian Treasurers who won world's best finance minister are… Paul Keating and Wayne Swan. Yeah the liberals are the best financial managers…..
Honestly who cares about a surplus anyway.
Government budgets arent house hold budgets. Debt isnt a big deal.
So glad to see Merryn getting a grand for another body bag and more dope!
Should be investing in AI. It's going to save us a fortune one day in education and healthcare, billions every year. We gonna just license the technology from Sam Altman et al. for a fortune for the next few decades?
Believing AI bro press releases.
I feel like you would have insisted the government buy Wordstar shares because cut and paste will save billions.Would have been a great idea. The whole world could think that cut and paste was invented by an Australian company, or by the Australian government itself. Might have changed perceptions of Australia and we'd be like Silicon Valley by now.
Invest in the current wave or the next great wave? Quantum computing will leave AI for dead, and the Private sector is already deep in AI. Labor did the right thing here.
We could have invested OpenAI earlier in exchange for rights to use it for education. OpenAI does it for us for free, and we let them sell it to the rest of the world and we get a cut of that. Or something.
our tech bro from Atlanssian have between them over $500m in properties. that should tell you a lot about the mindset of this country. put that in perspective, google acquired deepmind for 500m (usd). ohh and even the middle east have their own llm model
Seems pretty safe and steady.
A little bit of cash for everyone for energy, so they can say they are doing something for cosi-livs.
A fair chunk for manufacturing. I’ll be interested in how this is spent, as the temptation is always high to pick popular winners or give it to mates, as opposed to the best value.
A good surplus. I’m ok with carrying some debt with a growing GDP, but the temptation is to spend for votes, like the previous coalition government could not resist, so pleased to see that reined in a bit.I bet there will be some devil in the detail to outrage sky after dark.
Good to see they’re finally cutting back immigration which has been applying upward pressure on inflation. Although important to note immigration is the highest it’s ever been under Albanese’s leadership.
Yes, it's a good start but the scope is far too, limited.
There should be a maximum of 250k international students in Australia at any one time. Universities must provide accommodation - no bed, no visa. There should be no post-graduation work rights. University study only - no vocational.
No family reunion. It's a clown car system - you need to be under 45 to get PR but you can bring in your elderly parents. Mental.
100k maximum skilled PR visas - for highly skilled people only, not the mess we have ATM.
We can have plenty of temporary workers but they can never get PR (outside of the 100k) and can never get Medicare and Centrelink.At the next election, I'll be voting for the party that will reduce immigration the most.
100% agree.
Different story if CoL and Housing were completely under control. Come on in, in that case.
Hard cap on students, hard cap on working visas. None of this bringing your entire family of 12 afterwards.
Yep. What got me was that after covid, the government insisted that we massively increase immigration in order to 'catch up', whereas many were calling for a pause - which would have been a good opportunity. Look where 'catching up' has got us. Of course mass importation of international students is not the main cause of the housing crisis, but it's certainly not helping. I read somewhere the other day that nearly 10% of ALL international students (from every country on the planet) are studying in Australia. That's mental and unsustainable - especially considering that the main goal of many of these students is eventual PR. Crazy.
Don't stress, if these training organizations keep going the way they are; word will get back to all home countries that studying in Australia is a scam.
I know a fair few international students and I am highly disappointed by their experience with studying in Australia.
I'll be voting for the party that will increase immigration the most.
So our votes will cancel each other out.I suspect that more voters agree with my standpoint than yours but you party on with that Garth.
Democracy is a wonderful thing.
Scrap the power bill refund and put the money towards comprehensive car insurance for every Aussie driver
Nah! Bring Sinwar here so he can, with Penny, moderate the next Mardi gras.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xrtbie6FF0But then we wouldn't have those quality Ozbargain forum posts from people who got in accidents and are just now realising not having comprehensive insurance can be a problem.
Why drive? Better to give everyone discounted public transport.
Or better yet just return the tax cuts the way they were and stop shafting people on higher incomes.
Interesting to say that they care about helping with cost of living when the only reason they’re on surplus is because they are refusing to cut fuel excise tax which would actually help everyday Australians with cost of living.
please bro just buy the EV bro
it's better for the environment than keeping your existing car on the road
Yes you must go into debt for 60k 1st gen EV that will be obsolete in 5yrPretty sure musk is doing it all himself
it's better for the environment than keeping your existing car on the road
Only if you're charging your EV using renewable energy sources.
Single people with no kids….
(oh wait.. it's the same every year.. we should be used to it already!)
Part of the cycle, i never got shit until i had kids :P
Try middle to high single income married with no kids. Not only do we get screwed at every angle and told we are rich we get higher taxes than families that are dual income and less access to benefits despite having less after tax income.
their definition of 'high income', being just a few thousand bucks each month over the average, is just bs.
Just save yourself. I find it astounding that people can get angry for nothing all their lives every year like clockwork.
Soo
Winners - Old Pensioners & Boomers
Losers - Anyone under the age of 40 and not with a family.All they need to do:
Fix tax brackets to CPI
Get rid of negative gearing
Get rid of stamp duty for first home buyers to give them a fighting chance
Ban foreign home ownership which is also a facade for money laundering (if we can buy a house in their country why can they buy one here?)Then we'll be happy!
Get rid of stamp duty for first home buyers to give them a fighting chance
Plenty of concessions in QLD - I'd have thought most states have a concession here
The concessions top out at $550k.
Not many houses are in that bracket these days…Bugger, I was reading the QLD website for this and there was a 2nd concession to help, benefits calculated on up to an extra $350k
Plenty in WA and SA. Nice areas too.
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Cost of living crisis = more traffic to OzBargain
Budget in a nutshell folks