Canon 60D - buy body only or with lens kit?

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  macrocephalic on 02/08/2013 - 09:11

  If you don't already have lenses of your own/to share/to borrow then I'd suggest looking at the Nikons. The Canon APS-C sensor (the same sensor is in everything from the 1100D to the 700D and 60D) has been the same for a number of years and it's not as good as the other brands.

  If you're taking photos of people then you'll need a fairly fast lens (because people won't stay still unless you make them). High ISO performance on a 60D won't be great.

  If you go with the 60D then I'd suggest buying it with the 18-135 STM lens which is decent and useful for many purposes when you're starting or travelling - but not excellent for any one thing in particular. Then spend a little bit of extra money to buy a faster prime like the 35mm f2, 40mm f2.8 STM, or 50mm f1.8 for casual shots of people.

  Personally I have the old Sigma 30mm f1.4 and the length and speed are good - but the quality of these last gen Sigma lenses is pretty bad (soft).

  EDIT: The old adage is "spend your money on glass". Bodies depreciate and lenses don't. Lens optics don't get better nearly as quickly as bodies. So you spend your money on lenses instead of bodies and you get better photos and less risk of depreciation.

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  tokziktigah on 02/08/2013 - 10:20

  Thanks macrocephalic! I've definitely heard that last saying on the lenses. I do have a friend who has some canon lenses I could borrow to play with but long term would probably look to buy my own.

  Do you have any recommendations for Nikon or a better Canon to capture the higher ISO? Also, can you buy third party lenses for Nikon? I know a lot of Canon users buy Tamron for is either cheaper that Canon or has lenses in specific ranges that Canon may not have yet.

  I'd look to buy a general lens like the one you mentioned 18-135 and then probably one prime lens. Could I get it all for under $1000 or is that a bit high expectations?

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  abacus on 02/08/2013 - 11:35

  +1

  From macrocephalic

  "If you don't already have lenses of your own/to share/to borrow then I'd suggest looking at the Nikons. The Canon APS-C sensor (the same sensor is in everything from the 1100D to the 700D and 60D) has been the same for a number of years and it's not as good as the other brands."

  And that's why most professionals have Canon these days! You will be happy with either Nikon or Canon. Check out www.dprview.com.

  "If you're taking photos of people then you'll need a fairly fast lens (because people won't stay still unless you make them)."

  Not sure if macrocephalac knows what he is talking about, 'fast lens' refers to the aperture and has nothing to do with speed of anything, including the camera or subjects.

  "High ISO performance on a 60D won't be great."

  The 60D is an enthusiast camera and is fine for high iso performance and more than plenty for a beginer. Look at review at www.dpreview.com.

  The Canon range is now split into 5 categories,
  entry model = 4 digits eg 1100D
  bit better = 3 digits eg 700D
  enthusiast = 2 digits eg 70D
  professional = 1 digit eg 1D

  leaving out the 7D which is a crop camera (bit up from 60D) and the 6D full frame (bit down from 5D Mk 3. Most have video these days.

  "If you go with the 60D then I'd suggest buying it with the 18-135 STM lens which is decent and useful for many purposes when you're starting or travelling - but not excellent for any one thing in particular. Then spend a little bit of extra money to buy a faster prime like the 35mm f2, 40mm f2.8 STM, or 50mm f1.8 for casual shots of people."

  Buying prime lenses (35mm etc) is a waste of time and money. Nothing worse than swapping lenses when one zoom can do everything a beginner would want.

  You should ask photographers in shops for advice, nothing worse than bad advice given for free that costs you heaps.

  The one thing I agree with is the glass comment. You would be more than happy with the 1100D and one good zoom and a flash that can point at the ceiling. (Do not get one that doesn't bend.) Don't recommend second hand stuff as it could have been dropped and about to stop working. The 1100D is about $300. Next one up is the 700D etc, then next is 60D which JB had last week for $635 with the 18-55 lens which is really not usable compared to 18-200, 18-135 etc.

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    macrocephalic on 02/08/2013 - 13:50

    1. The majority of professionals use professional Canon cameras. The OP isn't buying a 5dIII, he's buying a consumer body. The 60D still has the same sensor has all the other aps-c canons since 2010. The main reason for Canon's excellent market share in the professional scene can be tracked back to the introduction of autofocus lenses. Canon stole the market with their impressive autofocus lenses when Nikon didn't think professionals were going to switch - but they did. Momentum (ie investment on existing equipment) is what has kept them at the forefront ever since. I shoot with an aps-c Canon, there's nothing wrong with it, but in the entry level I think the Nikons are a better deal at the moment. If all my gear was stolen tomorrow then I'd definitely consider replacing it with Nikon.

    2. Yes a fast lens is referring to the aperture. The aperture of the shot affects how much light you're letting in - affecting how long the exposure needs to be. There's a reason that most portrait lenses are f2 and wider. Of course you can shoot at a higher ISO - but the 60D sensor is a generation behind in ISO performance. The top google result for 60D iso performance for me was http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_60D/noise_JPEG.s… and it's saying that the image starts to noticeably degrade at 1600. Put simply: right now the other brands are making sensors that work better.

    3. You'll notice that I suggested he buy a 'do everything' lens as his first lens. I then suggested a few relatively cheap primes. Those primes will all give much better IQ than the 18-135. The only close to affordable zoom that really compares is the new Sigma 18-35 - but that costs almost as much as he wants to spend total. Spending $80 on a 50mm or $140 on a 40mm is not a bad investment and it will allow him to shoot in much lower light without a flash.

    Asking advice from shop assistants is hit and miss - just like asking advice on TV's from the guy at JB. He might know everything - and he might work there on weekends. Similarly I might know nothing, but that's the nature of asking advice from people you don't know.

    I do agree on the flash. The Yonguo yn468 is pretty cheap, and does TTL metering.

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  derkyft on 02/08/2013 - 12:15

  Hi OP,

  I have a 60d and it came with the 18-135mm kit lens. It really depends on what you like to take photos of. I personally hate my 18-135mm and I never use it. Instead of I bought the 35mm F1.4L and 85mm F1.2L mk ii. Primes are fast and I'm happy to move around to shoot.

  I like having a quick lens for indoor shooting, as well as the fantastic bokeh in portrait photos, which I mainly take. If you really had to invest in an all rounder lens, i'd suggest the 17-55mm F2.8 IS, that's probably the best all rounder lens, but it comes with a hefty price tag too.

  The kit lens you'll find useless really quickly once you get used to your camera and you'll be craving for more. I personally would have chosen to get body only and spend $100 buying the nifty 50, 50mm f1.8.. it's cheap and an awesome lens. Even better is that the nifty fifty has decent resell value while those kit lenses.. not many people want.

  Hope this helps, but I'm really not a fan of kit lenses.

  So TLDR, I prefer Canon over Nikon, even the screen displays look nicer. 60D is a fine camera with a solid body. get the 50mm f1.8 if you're tied up for cash (resells easily if you want to upgrade). Really wouldnt recommend the 18-135mm, unless you mainly shoot outdoors. Even with IS, it's not a great performer in indoor situations. In fact I'm trying to get rid of mine. lol

  Goodluck and happy shooting :)

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    abacus on 03/08/2013 - 19:31

    Again, I would not recommend a prime to a beginner.

    People who only shoot one type of photagraphy should not assume it applies to everyone else. If you are only shooting head and shoulders standing in one spot and you are happy with the 85mm lens, that's very nice, but doesn't apply to others who might be shooting a group of people in one shot then one head the next and is impossible to shoot unless you can walk back through the wall or fence and shoot from there. The 35mm = 52mm in crop, and the 85 = 127mm in crop. You might need a 18mm to shoot a group of people.

    A beginner also certainly doesn't need a f2.8 which he may not like in 3 months after paying $1K.

    Most people are more than happy with mobile phone photos and don't need the IQ etc that derkyft is after, so they would be ecstatic with the quality of a 18-200mm. Etc etc rhubarb rhubarb.

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      macrocephalic on 06/08/2013 - 10:55

      While I agree that a beginner doesn't need an expensive lens, if you don't want to change the lens then why not buy a superzoom camera? They will do everything almost as well as an slr with a cheap wide range lens - and be more portable and cheaper.

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  loremoon on 02/08/2013 - 12:38

  Well, the thing with the 60D I find is that they jumped from 50D, which was a semi-pro camera to the 'enthusiast' 60D.

  If you don't need the second screen, try looking at the 650D. Its basically the same camera as a 60D.

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  Stargazer5 on 30/08/2013 - 15:54

  I had a d90 and 35 f1.8 before when I first started photography.
  Now I have d3200 Nikon (can get about $400 from kogan) and 35 mm f1.8.
  I do a lot of shooting for people and groups about 1-8 people
  Good for food shots.
  35 f1.8 (about $200) is so sharp, and general lens and low light, it's fantastic. Had for more than 2 years now.
  It's excellent for learning photography learning framing and freezing shots. Low Light. Can take videos with d3200.
  D3200 is cheap and good quality.
  Only now I want a 18-35 sigma f1.8 around $800.and have 85mm f1.8 for portraits.

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  Stargazer5 on 30/08/2013 - 15:58

  Dave the money to get a really good lens for the type of shooting you want to do in the future.
  35 f1.8 can get a good idea what you like. It is fun and can sell good price after you want to move on to new lens.
  I am guessing About 80% of my 10000+ shoots are from this lens.

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    Stargazer5 on 30/08/2013 - 15:58

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