Real estate agent won't let me have a pre-settlement inspection for my property that settles tomorrow. What do I do?

kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 21:03

Basically, my property settles tomorrow the 8th of October. I am a first home buyer investing. My lawyer let me know on Thursday the 3rd of October that i would need to organise to get a cheque to him within 24 hours. I did it, but with much stress as i work full-time and banks are only open certain hours. He also told me to arrange a pre-settlement inspection with the real estate agent. I have made multiple phone calls and left text messages and voice mails to the real estate agent - NO REPLY. I resorted to calling the real estate agency's office number on Saturday morning - the receptionist answered saying the agent was out of office and he would get back to me. Within 5mins the receptionist called me back and said he was able to get through to him (surprise, surprise!) and 'apparently' has been unable to contact the tenants that are in the house for pre-settlement inspection. I have left 2 emails with the lawyer to contact me ASAP explaining the situation. I haven't had a reply from him as they are closed weekends and public holidays. I know for a fact that the real estate is open on Saturday and Sunday. The property is meant to settle at 2pm tomorrow, but i'm not too keen on settling without an inspection (for peace of mind).

What would usually happen in this situation? Can anything be done?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Mikinoz on 07/10/2013 - 21:12

    Did you inspect the property at all? do you have a cooling off period or did you waive it?

  • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 21:19

    I had the usual 10 day cooling off period. The 42 days for settlement. I only saw the property when i decided i wanted to buy it. That's the only time i've seen it - once! :-(

    • Mikinoz on 07/10/2013 - 21:26

      Had or have, the cooling off period starts after you pay and sign usually. You decided to buy after seeing it. You always need a building & termite inspection.

      Sorry but if you can get out of it, sounds like you rushed into this one, which is why you are probably so stressed.

      Take daveaus advice get some different legal advice tonight

  • No on 07/10/2013 - 21:20
    +3

    Was the sale subject to inspection? Are we talking termite or structural?

    Either way your settlement agent sucks… they should be handling this.

    If you are even a month away from settlement and the inspections haven't occurred something is fishy. If settlement is to happen tomorrow and whatever inspections you expect to happen prior to purchase haven't happened yet you are in a very bad position and its time to find a lawyer tonight.

  • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 21:24
    +1

    Building and pest inspections have been done. Its just the pre-settlement inspection where i inspect the house for the final time before it settles at 2pm tomorrow to make sure that the previous owners have not taken anything that was listed in the contract, etc. It is usually done a day or two before settlement

    • Mikinoz on 07/10/2013 - 21:28
      +3

      Okay well its not as bad as you think, if its in the contract not much to worry about. Plenty of time before 2pm tomorrow.

    • No on 07/10/2013 - 21:29
      +4

      Ahh ok thats a totally different thing.

      Tell your settlement agent (who I think still sucks) not to settle until you instruct to do so. Don't settle before that inspection has been done. Test everything… power points, gas, tv points, network, hot water, drainage. Everything must work.

      • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 21:38
        +1

        The agent does suck.. He was only ever interested in making the sale (which is understandable), but still wants me to sign a contract saying he can manage my property as its being rented out. No way in hell he's going to manage my property when he can't even communicate with me!

        If it does not settle at 2pm tomorrow due to me saying not to, then i may be up for extra charges as far as i know.

        I just read this online:
        "Conducting a pre-settlement inspection
        You are entitled to do a final inspection of the property before the settlement date. It is best that this be done as close to the settlement date as possible. In this inspection, you should look to see if there has been any damage to the property that wasn’t there when you first viewed it and check that the chattels in the agreement are in the same condition as when you entered the agreement. If you do find new damage to the property, you should tell your lawyer before the settlement date so they can contact the vendor and request for them to repair, replace it, or reduce the purchase price accordingly. A pre-settlement inspection is particularly important if the property is tenanted."

        If by chance the current tenants have done damage in there and i do not inspect it, it will be my problem claiming it all.. not the current owners. The tenants seem to be pretty good when i first saw the house.. but who knows really.

        The issue is, i work full time and getting time off work is not easy at all :-(

        • No on 07/10/2013 - 21:49

          The real estate agent and the settlement agent are different people. The settlement agent represents you and the real estate agent just cares about making a commission from the sale.

          Did the real estate agent recommend the settlement agent you have used?

          You may work full time however in your financial life this is about as significant as it gets.. Usually you need to sign off on the presettlement inspection before settlement occurs. If you don't trust or know who your settlement agent is it really is time to get a lawyer.

        • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 21:55

          The real estate agent is the person who is meant to help organise the final pre-settlement inspection.

          I don't know who my settlement agent is, but i know he is contracted out by my lawyer to do the final exchange at 2pm tomorrow.

          So it's really the real estate agent that has done wrong by me by not answering calls or text messages.

        • No on 07/10/2013 - 22:08

          If everything you have said is true and you don't know who your settlement agent is please contact a lawyer asap.

          The real estate agent represents the sellers only. They don't care about anything but selling the house and getting a commission. On the contract to buy you may have filled out there is a part that asks about your settlement agent…. this is your representative.. speak to them asap. do not settle.

        • Geewhizz on 08/10/2013 - 06:51

          Usually you need to sign off on the presettlement inspection before settlement occurs.

          I'm guessing this must vary from state to state.

        • equinoxxx on 10/10/2013 - 09:30

          this "The real estate agent represents the sellers only"

  • ATD on 07/10/2013 - 21:37

    What State is the property in? If it is a contractual requirement, then your lawyer should contact the seller's lawyer in the morning and make it a problem for the seller. Can't really see anyone being able to help you out with the info you have given. Sounds like you aren't happy with the performance of your lawyer to date.

  • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 21:41

    The property is in NSW. I'm not happy with the real estate agent at all.. or the lawyer to some point. Understandably, the lawyer was closed over the long weekend.. but its made things very hard and a little more stressful for me.

    • ATD on 07/10/2013 - 21:48
      +3

      OK, could help you if Qld. Get a good night sleep and call your lawyer 8.30 in the morning. Just explain you want to inspect before settlement and you aren't getting any joy from the agent and you have an issue with the property settling before you do an inspection. Ask them to discuss your options or for them to call the agent. Good luck.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/10/2013 - 21:46

    42 days sounds like an unusual settlement timetable. I'm used to 30,60 or 90 days. Settling so soon after a public holiday also sounds risky. Good luck getting the inspeciton done. If you can't get there in person is there a friend or family member who could do the inspection on your behalf and ring you while they are on the premises?

    • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 21:50

      It was 35 days originally, but it was extended by a week by the lawyer to allow for extra time as i am a first home buyer and needed my broker to organise things. 42 days is usually the norm as far as i know. Friends and family are working. I won't be able to answer phone calls at work so I might have to take the day off, just waiting around for calls. This is crazy

      • No on 07/10/2013 - 21:54
        +5

        Don't settle. A quick settlement is usually 6 weeks… slow stuff down until you understand everything.

        • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 21:59

          I can't slow anything down as its down on contract to settle tomorrow. Unfortunately, if i do not settle tomorrow, then i will have to pay a ridiculous percentage fee to the vendors. I'm ready to settle.. i just want my pre-settlement inspection before i settle as i'm entitled to it.

        • No on 07/10/2013 - 22:12
          +3

          You don't know who your settlement agent is.. this is a big issue. Slow everything down you can still buy this house.. just understand how it all works first ok?!

        • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 22:17

          Wait, i just looked at the settlement adjustment sheet from my lawyer (basically my bill) and its Sydney Legal Agents. Apparently my lawyer contracts them out to do the settlement for them. I'm sure its the real estate agent that i need to organise the inspection with though.. as it should have already been done.. and the settlement agent doesn't do anything till 2pm tomorrow (based on if my lawyer gives the go ahead)

        • No on 07/10/2013 - 22:31

          Your either a massive troll or someone who really needs a lawyer. Either way, all the best.

        • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 22:32

          Thanks. I promise i'm not trolling. It would be a pretty boring topic to troll on. I'm just really stressed and wondering whether my lawyer would actually be able to do anything.

        • djkelly69 on 08/10/2013 - 07:41
          +2

          Dave, in NSW you go through a solicitor or conveyancer, not a settlement agent. Also 42 days is a standard settlement period for NSW.

          It would also be very rare that they would do the final inspection for you.

          OP just call your solicitor in the morning, and get them to call the real estate agent. If it can't be arranged, settlement could be delayed.

          As stated below, a final inspection is not actually that important when a tenant is in there, as any issues/damage to the property since your first inspection could likely be dealt with under the tenancy agreement.

        • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 07:53

          The issue with that is the tenants would have to be dealt with under my insurance. I don't feel like claiming off the bat if I can avoid it. That's more or less why I want the final inspection. Plus, how am I to know the vendors haven't gone and taken things from the house away from the tenants. I doubt it, but it's still a possibility. I've now been caused to have the day off work so I can try and sort all this out. The lawyer firm isn't open yet either :-/

        • djkelly69 on 08/10/2013 - 22:32

          Since it appears you didn't end up settling today, I will reply.

          You would not need to make a claim under insurance if there were issues with the tenant (unless it went really badly), it would be coming out of the bond.

          Basically when you buy a property subject to tenancy, you are taking over the Tenancy Agreement that was in place with the previous owner (as you are probably already aware).

          The condition the property was in when the tenant moved in, is the condition the tenant has to return the property to when they move out.

          This is why a final inspection of a tenanted property is not that important, as it is simply in the middle (or whatever) of the tenancy period for the tenant, and the place does not need to be spotless, etc. An inspection today doesn't really show you anything.

          It is just when they eventually move out it needs to be returned to the original condition. If it isn't, then after some discussion/negotiation, it gets taken out of the bond.

          So what you need to know is the condition of the property when the tenant moved in. The current rental agent should be able to provide this to you. That way when you or your rental agent do the final exit inspection, you have something to rely on.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/10/2013 - 22:56

    You mentioned the "tenant" living in the premises. Do you have any way of contacting the owner to find out what attempts there have been to make the tenant aware that there will be an inspection? I know there are specific notice periods to give tenants ahead of inspections. There are various ways to get these notifications to the tenants. It depends on the rules in each state. I'm also wondering if the owner asked for an inspection to be done before the settlement was made. There might be an outside chance that an inspecition was done last week. This isn't as good as doing one on the settlement date but it's better than nothing.

    I hope things work out well for you. Please keep us informed.

    • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 23:08

      The vendors details are on the contract.. but its unethical to contact the vendors without going through the real estate agent. Trust me, i have been tempted to contact the vendors and tenants directly.. but i'm worried i will get in trouble from their lawyer or soemthing. Hmm.. thats an interesting point you bring up about whether an inspection was done for the vendors because of the tenants. Either way, i'm sure i'm entitled to one myself, as i am the person buying it, so i would like to take advantage of it before settlement. I've read some horror stories on the internet tonight about pre-settlement inspections

  • ntmango on 07/10/2013 - 23:26

    Your lawyers should be handling all if this!!
    At the very least get a conveyancer that handles everything including the pre-settlement inspections.

    Time to call in a sickie mate to check out the property.

    • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 23:40

      The lawyer doesn't organise for me to do the pre-settlement inspection though, right? As far as i've been told by the lawyer was that i needed to organise the pre-settlement inspection myself. But, unfortunately, have a real estate agent not responding to messages/calls. Yep, i think i will have to call into work for a mental health day off. Too stressful. Even then, a pre-settlement inspection may not be able to be organised because of the tenants.. and i may only be waiting around for a phone call 'hoping' to get a time to inspect the place.

      • rekabkram on 07/10/2013 - 23:43
        +1

        From memory the tenants are entitled to 48 hours notice although this may change from state to state. The real estate agent should be organising this especially if they are handling the sale and if they currently handle to rental agreement.
        You lawyer is there to read over documents to make sure your not screwed over, not to do walk throughs with you.

        • kwaker on 08/10/2013 - 08:31

          7 days written. my dodgy real estate tried to tell me the night before and told me to reschedule a funeral so he could show as he already booked with the buyers

          he still tried to sneak into the place and thought I wouldn't know

        • ntmango on 08/10/2013 - 21:43

          My lawyer handled everything for me from start to finish and i bought an investment in a different state. I only had to sign off on the documents. Once i signed the offer and they accepted, i just gave the real estate agent my lawyers details, deposit the funds into the lawyers trust account and that was it, and the lawyers took care of the rest, that simple.
          The lawyers didn't do the pre-settlement inspection but they organised it. Usually getting your lawyer to talk to the real estate agent gets things done quicker and more smoothly.

          A conveyancer does the same job, sometimes better than a lawyer but depends on who u choose.

  • rekabkram on 07/10/2013 - 23:40
    +1

    So in a nutshell your buying a property that already has tenants and your going to be renting it out to the same people.

    Personally if I was renting the property and the soon to be owner knocked on the door and explained that you've been trying to contact the real estate agent without success and that you just needed to do a pre sale inspection I would completely understand so long as you were happy to have me walk around with you and so long as you don't rock up with half a dozen people. (You by yourself or you and a partner would be acceptable).

    But then again I wouldn't mind knowing who I was renting off and would probably have a few questions that is like to ask as well. I rent from my brother and I like that I'm able to talk to him about things about the house, for example I don't have to contact a real estate agent if the air con is broken I just give him a ring and get him to organise a service or if I want to paint my daughters room I just mention it to him and would send him a mms with the colour.

    Anywho I'm rambling, basically what I'm saying is that it could be mutually benifitial if you know who your renting to and trade contact information. Don't know what real estate agents think about this but all they care about is a paycheck.

    • kimba88 on 07/10/2013 - 23:59

      I did briefly meet the tenants when i first saw the house. They seemed nice enough and seemed to look after things nicely. I've driven past the house a couple of times when i was in the area and it looked like they were maintaining the property nicely (from the front yard anyway). I just don't want to do things the wrong way and have the vendors lawyers or whoever on my case. I'd rather do it the right way. I would like to have a chat to the tenants anyway to find out if anything needed fixing before i take over the ownership of the house.

      If tenants are meant to have 48hrs notice, then i technically could have had an inspection on Sunday.. as i first contacted the real estate agent on Thursday COB.. even though he never replied.

      • rekabkram on 08/10/2013 - 00:11
        +2

        If the real estate never passed the message on to the tenants then they haven't had 48 hours notice, regardless though why would they get their lawyers involved?
        If they aren't happy with your request then all they would/should say is 'sorry mate, organise it with the real estate agent we aren't available".

        If you would like to have a talk to the tenants about the house to see if anything needs fixing up then that would be a great way to break the ice and get them on board you having an inspection.

        I'd imagine the conversation going something like -

        You - Hi my names kimba88, we met on such a such day. I'm going to be buying your property.
        Tenant - oh hi, what's up?
        You - I'm going to be settling on the house today I've been trying to get a hold of the such and such real estate to organise a time but haven't been able to get hold of them. Just before settling on the house I'd just like to do a quick final inspection and ask you if there was anything that needed fixing or doing with the house.
        Tenant - wow your so awesome, please come in and please take these giant bags full of money.

        They may not offer you bags full of money but I think you can see what I'm getting at. Your request isn't illegal or immoral, it would in fact be perfectly understandable and reasonable if the tenants are available. Worst case scenario they can say no or we're not available.

        • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 00:29

          Yeah I suppose. I was hoping the tenant would tell me if anything was wrong so the vendors could cover it. I like the idea of the giant money bags. Hahaha.

          I'll call the lawyer early in the morning and hope they can sort something out for me. Usually they need 24hrs notice if the contract needs to change or you pull out.

  • Kevan2 on 08/10/2013 - 00:18
    +1

    You are iviteing REAL [ongoing ] trouble.

    YOU HAVE EMPLOYED A SOLITCITOR TO PROTECT YOU. YOU MUST TALK TO THEM ASP . 7am start ringing.
    Lets see who are the parties involved here and who can loose the most.

    You, Financer, Vender, Tennants, Real estate agent - selling, solicitor [and who ever they have employed to complete in your interest.]

    Has the solicitor discussed all pre settlement requirements, ie inspection, final inspection, insurances - public libality, building, landlords, Tennant contract and if the old one is enforcable or what rights do you have with tennants, and their credit/rental records, what rights you have for inspections now and as owner, is

    If financer is involved, what is your minium requirements and what happens if you do not get rent. how
    Vendor, only wants out, and money, are you protected.T
    alk to solicitor!

    Tennant, wants to live there as cheeply as possible, what are their rights, what do you have to do to protect yourself if things go wrong, no rent, trashers, runners, waste storers and so on. IS RENTAL AGREEMENT VOID ON SETTLEMENT. IF NO new agreement do they have more rights than you ie rent is frozen if contract not renewed, replaced. do they have right to repair at your costs. Talk to solicitor!

    REALESTATE AGENT you are a wallet - sale and manageing agent.

    Solicitor, getting paid to ensure that all your interests in this transaction and follow on is in order. AS WRITTEN get in solicitors head first thing in morning. good luck.you seem to need it.

    • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 00:37

      Yep, they are pretty much all the parties involved. Basically it's the lawyer/solicitor that needs to get onto the real estate agents back then. I have all my landlord/building insurance ready to go now, so I'm not sure what will happen if this property doesn't settle at 2pm as I'm paying for a product that's not needed technically. Guess I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.

    • epicaricacy on 10/10/2013 - 12:08
      +2

      GODDAMIT. I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF SEEING 'LOSE' SPELT 'LOOSE'. THAT'S IT. I'VE FINALLY BLOWN MY STACK ABOUT IT. ONE 'O' PEOPLE…

      • rekabkram on 10/10/2013 - 12:48

        BAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

        Thanks for the laugh, the rant and your avatar go perfectly together. I'm sorry for taking enjoyment from your pain, I've thought the same thing many times.

  • orourke on 08/10/2013 - 01:14
    +1

    The agent has not rated it a priority. It's pretty common for no-final inspection to take place in a sale subject to an existing tenancy. During a final inspection, your looking to see a few things, but primarily:
    i) The property is vacant; and
    ii) The property is in the same condition as when you signed the contract to purchase (unlike what someone said above, where they indicated that everything has to be perfect, it merely has to be in the same condition as when you agreed to purchase it);

    Now, i) is obviously not going to be a problem here; and ii) could likely be dispensed with by the agent (who after all, is managing the property after you've purchased it) making a phone call to the tenant to see if anything has happened in the last six weeks.

    Now, with your Solicitor and not getting the shortfall cheque information to you until the last minute. Well, to be fair, he was probably waiting on the Vendor's Solicitor to send him cheque directions (And they were probably waiting on their bank to issue a payout figure), so he could let you know to whom to draw the cheque. If he was pro-active, he would have been able to tell you that he would need a cheque and the amount, but not the person to whom to draw it, maybe a week before settlement. But, most purchasers are buying with a mortgage through a large bank and will nominate an account in their mortgage documents for shortfall fund to be debited. So usually this is not an issue and he likely didn't cast his mind to the problem until pulling the settlement together.

    I know this is a stressful time, but take some perspective. The final inspection, in this case, is probably not a big deal. You've organised the settlement cheque already, great. Settlement is scheduled for 2pm. If it doesn't happen, then it will likely occur on Thursday. You'll miss out on 2 days rent and you'll be paying the insurance, probably, for those two days. In the scheme of the purchase price + stamp duty, it's pretty minor. On the plus side, you wouldn't be paying interest on your mortgage for those days.

    BTW, the settlement agents have nothing to do with you as a purchaser. They're acting as agents for your Solicitor, in lieu of them actually attending the settlement. Yes, this is very very common in property transactions. They will follow all the directions that your Solicitor issue them. if you insist that you do not settle because you have not done a final inspection, your lawyer will tell them and they will not settle the matter. It's also pretty common for settlement to fall through, usually for an administrative issue. Be aware, if that is the case, the Vendor's Solicitor may issue a Notice to Complete and charge you penalty interest for every day you are late settling (usually 10% p/a on the outstanding balance) plus possibly some additional fees as contained in the special conditions of your contract.

    TALK TO YOUR LAWYER so that he can explain everything to you.

    • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 01:26

      You are 100% right with the solicitor. Although, being a first home buyer, I needed a little more warning. Not to mention I almost drew a cheque out for $8000 more due to them making a mistake - lucky I thoroughly checked it all.
      The thing I'm most annoyed about is the real estate agent not getting back to calls or messages. I'm entitled to a pre - settlement inspection.. So I wana take it. It probably won't matter too much since I think the tenants are pretty good.. But I don't want to take the chance.

      • rekabkram on 08/10/2013 - 01:33
        +2

        Hopefully you haven't already signed on to that real estate agent for the property rental, it may be a minor hassle but if this is how your being treat when they're meant to have their head up your ass telling you your shit smells like roses then imagine how much they'll care when you actually need something and they've already got your buisness.

        • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 07:13

          Nah, I'm still on the look out for a good property manager. I've got my eye on one particular one that I expect a call from today.

      • stratbargain on 08/10/2013 - 08:04
        +4

        I didn't get a pre-settlement inspection. The house settled, I went to the property to check it out, mow the lawn etc…. The old owner was still in there. Boxes and crap everywhere. His movers were "late"…

        Now what? I own a house that I can't access and the old owners want to stay another day.

        Cops said they couldn't do anything. Basically had me over a barrel.

        Long story short I ended up out the front of the house till about 1am when finally his mover showed up. He left crap everywhere but at that point I was just happy to have him out. House was a mess, floors were filthy, kitchen was disgusting, old used nappies in the bathroom etc.

        But it was my first house and I was young and silly.

        My advise to you. Screw the agent. He doesn't care about you and that's fine, but he should care about the people he is selling for. Ring him and your conveyencer and tell them you will be delaying settlement until you have the property inspection. They will be quick to get it sorted out. You are well within your rights to delay settlement in this situation I believe (check with your conveyencer)

        Better to be safe.

        • voteoften on 08/10/2013 - 17:05

          Usually the seller, if they live there, have one day after settlement to leave (at least in WA).

  • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 08:44
    +2

    So, I heard from the real estate agent. His story is that the tenants haven't answered his calls or texts. The tenants aren't allowing me to do an inspection today, but will allow me to do one tomorrow after 9.15am - which I AM NOT having another day off work. I've had to have today off trying to organise all this.

    I finally got through to the lawyers. They are trying to push settlement back 2 days so I can view the property tomorrow after work. They are trying to get all fees waived so I don't have to pay for not settling.

    I'm now awaiting to hear from the lawyer to see if this can be done. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, the real estate agent can pay them for not being organised.

    • AlanHB on 08/10/2013 - 08:56

      It's pretty odd behaviour from the real estate agent. From memory they get their commission from the settlement, not the deposit. You'd think that they'd be more focussed/proactive in ensuring that the settlement actually occurs, and they get paid.

      • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 09:07

        Apparently the tenants told the real estate agent at some stage that they didn't know the property was being sold. I think that could've been when the building/pest inspection was done.. Even though I had walked through the the house 1 week before with the real estate agent.

        I'm not sure who's telling the truth, but when a tenant isn't replying to calls or allowing an inspection, it makes me think what do they have to hide? At the same time, it could be BS the agent is telling me to cover his butt.

        • hangdog on 08/10/2013 - 09:24
          +1

          Apparently the tenants told the real estate agent at some stage that they didn't know
          the property was being sold

          As a former tenant, I don't recall ever being told what the purpose of an inspection was, only that there was to be an inspection.

          I'm not sure who's telling the truth, but when a tenant isn't replying to calls or allowing an inspection,
          it makes me think what do they have to hide? At the same time, it could be BS the agent is telling me
          to cover his butt.

          Probably butt-covering because the estate agent failed to give written notice. Last-minute notification of an inspection is generally an unwelcome imposition for a tenant.

        • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 09:39

          I notified the agent on Thursday that I needed the inspection.. Only because that's when the lawyer contacted me. Should the agent have known and organised in advance with the tenant so I could inspect or was it right for him to wait for me then contact the tenants?

        • bluedufflecoat on 08/10/2013 - 10:43

          I think it's standard practice, so the agent should have known. Most agents are scumbags. They're lazy as H*** and do next to nothing to earn their giant commissions. Definitely don't sign a contract allowing them to manage your property.

    • ATD on 08/10/2013 - 09:15
      -2

      Just go around to the house this morning and introduce yourself again to the tenant and let them know that you will be settling the property shortly. Find out if what the agent is telling you is true or not and see if you can have a quick look. If they are difficult with you, personally I would look at getting them out or increasing their rent at the first opportunity.

      There is no such thing as "…but its unethical to contact the vendors without going through the real estate agent". Not sure where you came up with that - buyers and sellers communicate quite regularly between themselves and is more common than you might think. The only thing unethical is for lawyers to contact a party when they are represented by another lawyer.

      It's funny, a lot of people have attempted to provide some sort of advice and/or comfort to you, yet I can't see any acknowledgement from you.

      • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 09:28

        Trust me, I am thankful to everyone who has provided information/comfort. I guess I've just become so intertwined into it all, that I seem ungrateful. As it's the first time I've ever been in this situation, it's probably been a lot more stressful for me than if it happened a second time. I'm just hoping the lawyers can sort something out. I still feel very wrong turning up on the doorstep.

      • [Deactivated] on 08/10/2013 - 09:39

        I noticed that too, but I think this person is stressed out of their mind.

        OP, if you had to take a second day or part of a day off work to sort out what will be one of the biggest purchases you ever make, it will really not be the end of the world. If you are threatened with losing your job over two personal days because of a legitimate reason, you would have cause for taking that matter to the ombudsman. If you cannot be without the money you would make on one day of work, your budget is really tight and I hope you have a fixed interest rate. And if it is tht impossible for things to carry on at work without you being there, that is what mobile phones and laptops were invented for. You are going to make yourself sick by worrying so much when this problem will largely go away if you take a day off work to do this inspection.

        I am really not trying to be mean here; another day off work is not going to be so terrible.

        • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 10:00

          I'm sorry if anyone feels they have given advice or comfort without any acknowledgement whatsoever. I have honestly been stressed and keeping my eye on this thread with not much sleep.. In hope of knowing what to do or what my rights are.. Hence I have replied to almost every single post.

          So, to all those that have offered some sort of advice/comfort in this thread, and to those that continue to do so, thank you soooo much!

        • ohsnap on 08/10/2013 - 11:49
          +1

          OP, I can understand your hesitation about wanting to pop by there without notice. I would have been annoyed if I am the tenant, wondering what's with this person wanting to inspect the property with no notice whatsoever. I will hesitate to let you in for sure, no matter how genuine or nice you may seem. So I would not do this myself, and would still go through the right channels to ensure I get my inspection done before settlement. I don't know how it is in NSW, but here in VIC if all parties agree, settlement can be postponed with no penalty. All the best, hope this is all sorted soon.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/10/2013 - 12:13

          I hope it works out for you very soon OP. Best of luck.

    • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 21:35

      Since i've had the day off after the public holiday to sort this crap out.. i now need to organise a medical certificate sigh

  • 777 on 08/10/2013 - 09:34
    +1
    Please Read

    Haven't read the above comments,but here is my 2 cents
    Having bought nearly 10 properties so far, from my experience it is a must and definitely recommended.
    We bought a near new unit in Victoria, which was left maliciously damaged by the tenant who was friends with vendor and lucky we checked, the dry walls were hit with baseball bat.
    On another occasion the carpet was "accidentally" damaged and front door glass was broken, which they replaced.
    They are both the cases of a pre settlement inspection.

    • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 09:52
      +1

      Good to know I'm doing the right thing by putting off settlement. Thanks. The tenants want to stay as far as I know, so it would be pretty stupid for them to do any damage.

    • matt_will_fix_it on 10/10/2013 - 21:47

      Why would we read this if you haven't read the comments above?

  • suti on 08/10/2013 - 09:58
    +1

    You have said you are in NSW.

    Clause 12.3 of the standard sale of contract says

    "The vendor must do everything reasonable to enable the purchaser, subject to the rights of any tenant, to make 1 inspection of the property in the 3 days before a time appointed for completion."

    Ask your conveyancer/solicitor to chase up, as this may be grounds for delaying settlement.

    • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 10:05
      +1

      Thanks, I think the lawyers are chasing this up. If they aren't able to do anything, I'll tell them to look at this particular clause. Things should work out going by this clause.

  • Bargainaholic on 08/10/2013 - 13:07

    An inspection isn't really required as you are not purchasing the property with vacant possession.

    Stress less as there must be an ingoing inspection report completed by the Agent and signed by the tenant at the start of the tenancy which outlines the condition of the property.

    In the future, any damages or cleaning at the end of tenancy which isn't stated on the report will be deducted from the tenants bond.

    • voteoften on 08/10/2013 - 17:11

      You are assuming that the RE agaent that has been handling the rental has done all of the rental documentation properly. Even when it is done properly and even when there is damage, the owner often suffers and the tenant walks off scott free. The agent will shrug and say it is wear and tear.

  • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 13:49
    +2

    My Lawyer has tried contacting the other party to delay settlement and highlight i will not be paying any fees associated with not settling today, as i could not gain access to the property. Looks like settlement might be delayed till Friday so everyone can get organised again. I think i'll have my pre-settlement inspection tomorrow afternoon after work.
    Thanks for eveybody's input so far. I'm a little more relaxed about things now.. but technically i should have had a property under my name in about 10mins time. Ah well

    • lplau on 08/10/2013 - 14:24

      Maybe talk to your lawyers in regards to this.

      They may be able to whip something up in regards to "financial" loss due to the unexpected delays which were part of the other party's fault.

      Maybe you can reverse charge some fees on them…..

  • onlyletters on 08/10/2013 - 14:11

    Talk to your lawyer..

  • coolhead on 08/10/2013 - 14:29

    An advice which you might not like… Fr buyers sometimes buying a property is a nightmare..
    Don't expect to recover any losses due to vendor's fault. All contracts are drawn in favour of the seller…

    i was in similar situation n lost about 4k & not even a cent recovered…

    • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2013 - 09:11

      Not entirely true. The purchaser can insert any clause they please into a contract - even just written in pen. As long as the vendor agrees and initials the change.

  • RockyRaccoon on 08/10/2013 - 15:42
    +1

    SOME advice.

    Talking to your lawyer and the agent. SEND them an SMS confirming what you decide/said.

    eg if you want settlement delayed due to not being able to inspect the property then send them BOTH an SMS to tell them your decision, that way you have something to use if they dont do what you say. Its TOO easy to dispute a verbal direction if they want to. He said you said etc

    • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 16:47

      I've sent the text message to the real estate agent confirming the time of the inspection tomorrow. But i can't send a text message to the lawyer as i only have a business number and not a mobile number. The communication from the lawyer has been pretty poor to be honest. I've had to make the calls to him and he hasn't kept me updated. I'm quite disappointed. In saying this, hopefully all should be over by the end of the week.

      I've signed for a new property manager to start when my property settles. I'm paying 6.6% + gst with $8 per month administration fee. Not sure whether that's expensive or not. But it seems i'll be in a lot better hands than going with this other real estate agent selling the property who charges 5.5% with $5 per month administration fees

      • voteoften on 08/10/2013 - 17:14
        +1

        That new property manager should go with you to this appointment and make a condition report. The tenant needs to be quizzed on if there are any problems with the property that need to be fixed. Any repairs that need to be done in order to maintain the tenancy are the responsibility of the seller up until the property changes hands.

        • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 17:21

          I think the new property manager was planning to make an appointment another time to do this. They reckon they will take 150-200 photos to make sure the property stays in the condition it was originally in (apart from normal wear and tear)

        • rekabkram on 08/10/2013 - 21:17

          I didn't think that they were allowed to take photos of the inside of the house containing the tenants possessions without the tenants permission. I know if a real estate agent wanted to start taking photos of all of my valuables I wouldn't be impressed. Don't know if it go so far as to take their camera off them or call the cops but I wouldn't be far off.

          I could understand if there was say damage to the kitchen bench and they wanted to take a photo of it or a cracked floor tile, but other than documenting damage they have no right to be doing that.

          I don't consider myself to be an unreasonable person but I think that certainly crosses a line far more than earlier when you didn't want to knock on the door and talk to the tenants.

        • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 21:21

          Maybe i misunderstood and they only do that in between tenants?

        • rekabkram on 08/10/2013 - 21:24

          Fair enough then, I would also recommend that the next time the property is vacant you take a video camera around, it's amazing how many photos you can take and yet still miss something.

          Actually that reminds me I need to do an updated video of my valuables for my contents insurance. Cheers.

        • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 21:33

          Good idea!

          So, how do you take a video of your video camera? ;-)

        • rekabkram on 08/10/2013 - 21:34

          Bathroom mirror ;)

        • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 21:36

          Good work! I'm learning so much right now! Haha

        • voteoften on 08/10/2013 - 22:33

          The new mgt agent should document the place immediately. The real danger here is that damage will occur and the tenant will say preexisting and the agent you gave the boot to will not help.

          As for taking photos of damage only. How is that going to help? You want photos of undamaged items so that if any damage occurs during the term of the lease, it will be documented as having happened while that tenant was in charge. Any photos of tenants chattels will be incidental.

        • rekabkram on 09/10/2013 - 09:42

          I was saying from a tenants point of view. It's a bit different for me now because I rent from my brother and I have no issues with him, he would be welcome to take photos in my house and I wouldn't care but then he doesn't need to because he knows that I respect the property.

          My previous rental was an absolute piece of crap, got out of there before my daughter was born because it was just horrible and I didn't want her growing up there. There's no chance I would tolerate that landlord taking photos of my property. He was a shifty bastard.

          If you want to take photos of damage while there are tenants in the house and discuss any damage with them and have them sign an agreement that this is all of the damage then there shouldn't be an issue.

  • pebee47 on 08/10/2013 - 17:31
    +1

    Just joined this conversation so obviously no help as the contract is probably now settled.
    Suggested post-purchased actions.

    1. Ask your conveyancing person (lawyer/ settlement agent/ conveyancer - whatever he/she is called in your State) why they didn't ensure all your legal rights were insisted on, and why they allowed the settlement to go ahead without a satisfactory final inspection. Threaten report to appropriate State Legal Practitioners Board if necessary.

    2. Report Agent to State Gov't Real Estate Agents Regulatory Board outlining ALL actions/reactions.

    3. Copy of 2. to State Real Estate Agents Institute, the Agent's Real Estate Agency Principal/Director, and the Agent if other than Company director.

    Sounds like the 6.6% already includes GST and the managing agent is trying to "value add", otherwise seems a reasonable rate - depends on what the actual monthly amount is.

    Agencies are only valued on the income generated from their rent roll. Their sales turnover is usually ignored if an agency is being sold. Rent rolls are often sold separately.

    • kimba88 on 08/10/2013 - 17:43

      Nah 6.6% was a negotiated rate.. down from 7% with gst. Wish it was 6.6% including gst

  • EggMan28 on 08/10/2013 - 23:12

    I was in a similar situation except that my solicitor didn't even advise me about doing a final pre-settlement inspection.

    When I initially inspected the place, it was tenanted and agent advised the lease was expired but the tenant was happy to sign a new lease.
    After settlement, I learnt from the agent that the tenant had given notice a few weeks ago and they had vacated the place a few days prior to settlement. And that they had sent me an email about it, which I had no record of.

    Thankfully another tenant signed up within a week. Stuck with them as they are also the strata managers of that apartment block.

  • [Deactivated] on 09/10/2013 - 09:56
    +2

    Thanks for keeping us informed OP. It's a difficult process to go through but well worth the effort you have put into it. Well done for all your hard work and time. Good luck with your new property manager. I hope they are able to keep you better informed than the previous real estate agent that was involved with the property. Best of luck.

  • ilostnemo on 09/10/2013 - 12:45
    -1

    I will add my 2c, after buying and selling a few properties.

    If there are any penalties for late settlement, I'd say you will be paying, its not the sellers fault that those on your side haven't organised anything.

    I copped a $3,000 bill for late settlement, and I was assured I wouldn't as we ended up paying rent also to the seller, as our side failed to settle on the date and we were pretty much homeless as we had moved out of our previous accommodation.

    I managed to get our finance company to reimburse the fee, as they were to blame, when we kicked up a stink about have to pay both rent and penalty interest, they said rent isn't in the contract yada yada yada.

    It may be different, but the settlement agent, should be helping you, they have checklists.
    It seems now as the manure is hitting the fan, you are blaming everyone else.

    I'm sure the real estate agent has many customers to service.

    Your main prerogative is to settle as quickly as possible, as if I was the seller, I'd be demanding every penalty I could, as they are paying out interest (maybe) while your side is delaying things.

    I don't mean to sound harsh, but you need to see it on both sides.

    As a rule, never keep the same tenants, they could be paying well below market, could be friends with the previous owners etc.

    I have a rental and I manage, a lot of agents just don't have the time to manage a property ie they have 100 on their list.

    Also make sure your contract with them, is in your favour, it's not much concession if they charge you 5% property management fees if all their other fees are twice as much.

    If that guy is taken 200 photos I'd hate to see what price the property condition report is.

    I hope the outcome is positive for you.

    • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2013 - 09:28
      +3

      As a rule, never keep the same tenants, they could be paying well below market, could be friends with the previous owners etc.

      This kind of attitude is one reason why tenants quickly learn to hate landlords - and treat their property with disdain. I frequent a couple of RE forums, and a real investor values tenants AND the property. They also learn what the market rent of the property is as part of their purchasing calculations. So there's no need to kick out a tenant because the investor has no idea if incoming rent is low. (An investor that doesn't know that, isn't one - they're really a speculator.)

      • ilostnemo on 11/10/2013 - 13:21

        As the OP has now posted,

        The real estate agent currently managing the property told me that the windows had been broken for at least 5-8years and just taped up. Apparently the house was rented by the vendors father, so didn't seem to care too much. I don't understand how someone can be such a bad landlord and leave windows broken - its an accident waiting to happen, especially since two young children sleep in that room.

        So in this scenario bad tenant, bad landlord and bad property manager.

        I would also suggest, based on relationship that the tenant is paying well below market value.

        I agree with you 100%, that a real investor values tenant AND the property, that is why I pick my tenant, not some property manager who hasn't the time to screen the tenants properly.

        With our properties, we have had them managed twice for two years, and the other 12 years self managed. The best tenants are the ones we picked by far. The tenants also like the direct contact approach.

        I'm not here to make friends with tenants, (even though they are now).

    • modsec802 on 11/10/2013 - 13:34

      As a rule, never keep the same tenants, they could be paying well below market, could be friends with the previous owners etc.

      That statement is disgraceful, I wonder how many families as good tenants have been kicked out on the street due to your greed

      • ilostnemo on 11/10/2013 - 13:57
        -2

        Disgraceful??????

        1st property I bought, It had a tenant, when we did our first look, he had porn magazines, (didn't discourage me).

        I went back to the property for another scheduled inspection. When I was there a kid came in the back door, (I'd say 12) he just walked in, I asked can I help you, he said "He was here to see Dave" I said, sorry mate he isn't in, come back in an hour and next time try knocking.

        When I left, another tenant asked, what I was doing, I told her I was looking at the property, she said that the guy there was a paedophile. I said that , that is a big allegation. I told her to call the police. She informed me she had several times, I then spoke to the real estate agent, and he confirmed the same. I called the police, and was advised 2 weeks later, the place was untenanted.

        The guy was a paedophile, and during the first 2 months I had several young kids coming to the back door of my unit.

        My wife had bought a property which was tenanted, her story is a lot better, we kept the same tenant as she had been there 5 years, and we sold, she moved out as she knew she was paying well below the average rent.

        The bad tenants I've had, have been replaced with respectful members of society.
        We currently have a teacher, and a single mother as tenants.

        • ilostnemo on 11/10/2013 - 14:04
          -2

          and also, it's not greed to receive the current market rent.

          Very quick to judge.

  • mekalol on 09/10/2013 - 15:17

    I have been in Same scenario like you. I Call my conveyor and he called Vendor Conveyor , To Postpone the Settlement Unless I have agree to process.
    Because my real estate agent was not answering my mobile or replying any text message which I send to contact me.

    Make sure you send me multiple text too , backup with for yourself.

    Don't Forget to mention in you text that all charges incurred for postpone- settlement(any bank charges), would be bear by Real estate agent.

    Good luck and Hopefully You can Resolved quickly.

  • kimba88 on 09/10/2013 - 23:16

    I had my pre-settlement inspection this afternoon. I noticed two windows were broken - one in the laundry and one in the main bedroom at the front of the house. I don't remember seeing them on my first look at the house, but then again, i probably didn't look so thoroughly. The tenants reckon they have been calling the real estate managing the house to fix it, but have been told repeatedly to tape the windows so they don't break any further. This was also NOT noted on the building inspection report.. but peeling paint around the timber was noted.

    The other issue i noticed was one of the beams in my detached garage near the apex has partially rotted. I was hoping to eventually turn this into a granny flat, but i'm not sure i'll be able to do it now unless i knock down the whole garage. The beams are only 2100mm high too.

    The tenants seem pretty clean in general and seem to take pretty good care of the house. The only issue i had was the dogs seem to go under the house and poo, which stinks when looking under the house. I'm worried the smell might travel up through to the inside of the house.

    So does anyone know where i stand in regards to getting the windows fixed and the rotting beam? Or do i have no leg to stand on? The property manager that i signed up said to maybe try and get my hands on the ingoing inspection report to see if the broken windows were at least noted.

    • rekabkram on 10/10/2013 - 00:03
      +7

      A couple of days ago you said 'Building and pest inspections have been done.'

      How could a building inspection be done and broken windows and a rotting beam not be noted?

      The issues you have:

      • Broken windows, need to be fixed. The damage was caused prior to you purchasing the house and so they need to be covered (cost) by the tenants bond or paid for by the owner. As soon as you own the house (if they are broken) they will need to be fixed and you'll be out a further couple of hundred dollars. If I were in your boots here the first thing I would do is contact the building inspector and mention it, he/she will most likely say 'if it's not in the report then it wasn't there' once that's been sorted go to the real estate agent and let them know, ask if they have been told about the issue and if they have what their response has been. For something like a broken window I would expect that it would be fixed very quickly if they had been notified because it could lead to injury. After this if it hasn't been resolved then contact your lawyer, to push settlement along I wouldn't be surprised if the seller would agree to pay for the damage since it would be a bigger pain in the ass to change the sale price of the house to compensate.

      • When you say rotting beam that could mean different things to different people, generally speaking when there's rot it's not just in one place. That shit spreads and the solution is cut away the rot and replace anything it's toched, but equally important(ly?) find the source. Is there a hole in the roof that has been dripping water down the beam? Solution is to contact the building inspector, why wasn't this noticed? Is it really rot? I don't mean to insult your inteligence but are you mistaken a ugly knot in the wood for rot?

      One rotting beam (assuming the house and garage were built to code) is not going to bring the place down. Although time consuming and possibly expensive it can be replaced (more than likely). Your building inspector has more than likely been a builder at one stage, talk to him about it and ask the questions. Can it be fixed? Will it be expensive? What will it entale?

      • Dog shit… There's a solution for that, respirator, garbage bags and gloves. Clean the lot, then close it up so the dog can't get in. It is possible that the underneath has been left open for a reason so when designing a way to close it off (boarding it up) try to leave a reasonable sized area with hinges and a latch….. Just try not to make it a dungeon….

      Sorry this doesn't tell you if you have any rights, common sense tells me that the tenants caused the damage because who would move in to a place with broken windows? And what real estate company wouldn't tell the owner that it needed to be fixed before people moved in?
      On the plus side you've already seen one of greatest joys of becoming a landlord before you've paid for it, spending money on shit that you didn't think you'd have to.

    • voteoften on 10/10/2013 - 04:43
      +2

      It is the tenants responsibility to clean up the dog crap. I am assuming that the dogs in question are under the control of the tenants and not wild dogs.

      If it is wild dogs either the tenant or the seller are responsible for cleaning the crap.

      Even if the dogs are wild, I still think the tenant is likely responsible.

      Do not clean the crap yourself. If there is crap when they leave, hire a cleaner to do it and take it out of their bond.

      We do not allow any dogs at any of our properties uh unless I we are having trouble renting. They significantly add to wear and tear in ways you will unlikely be able to charge the tenant for.

    • ilostnemo on 10/10/2013 - 13:49

      If they have been told repeatedly to tape the windows, this would suggest the windows have been broken for some time.

      Who recommended the building inspector, please don't say the real estate agent.

      I disagree with rekabkram in regards to the broken windows, if they were broken at the time of you putting your offer in, then I'd say to bad. (especially how the final price could of had the damage factored in)

      As mentioned before, get em fixed then worry about them, repairs are tax deductable.

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