Impersonated and Defrauded - Advice Needed

Hi All

Sorry if there is a wall of text - I will try to explain the issue as concisely as possible.

Someone recently impersonated me at one of the Big4 banks, and took out, wait for it, more than $50k cash within 24 hours. I was alerted about it by the bank itself after the 15th time the impersonator hit the bank (mostly between 2 branches). I managed to barely stand my ground and nearly had a heart attack as it was my life savings.

Cutting to the chase, after all the investigations and info provided to me by the bank, I came to the conclusion that the bank clearly failed in its duty of care:

  1. Gave away so much money in so many transactions without even once checking the debit/credit card.
  2. Did not compare the account details with the fake driving license (which had incorrect info).
  3. Did not get a red flag or call me within the first 2 - 3 transactions

I have been going in and out the police stations giving statements and did not sleep for nearly 2 weeks, and don't know how I have gone through my job during the day (everyone including my boss noticing my lack of concentration and inability to work) while worrying about this.

I have been told by the bank late last week that they have given back all my money back (yet to check though), but I have been so shaken by this experience that I have lost all confidence in any bank.

With my health at risk and also my job at risk due to my boss having a chat to me, I need to know what rights do I have to seek compensation from the bank, if at all. I have no doubt that the bank should have prevented this happening (considering the amount, transaction count and the fact that it was in a retail branch).

Do I have any chance at all or would I be wasting my time? What else do you guys suggest? Any advice would be welcome. I have tried to search for a situation like this or a lawyer for such an issue but could not find it.

Comments

  • +75

    Sorry to hear man.

    The bank has made a mistake, and they've paid you back in full.
    Their duty of care is limited to making sure your money is safe.
    By paying you back I think they've fulfilled it.

    What sort of compensation are you expecting?
    I doubt the banks would give you anything freely. They're already $50k out of pocket by reimbursing you.

    Have you told your boss about this? I'm sure he would understand your situation.
    You haven't lost your job yet so there's no financial loss there.
    Have you been to a doctor regarding your health issues?
    Unless you're seriously incapacitated and mentally handicapped from this episode, then I don't see any substantial damages being awarded to you.

    My suggestion is don't fight what seems to be a losing battle, put it behind you and don't waste any more time on this.

    • +2

      Thanks for your reply. Yes I have spoken to the boss but the poor performance during 3 weeks is still there. I have been to the doctor too and have been on sleeping pills.

      • Ok, it's good you've been to the doctor and have it documented.

        jzx100 mentions the Australian ombudsman, this is a link to the UK one on distress and inconvenience.
        http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical…

        Once we have decided to uphold a complaint, we consider the extent to which the business's actions affected the consumer – if they had any impact at all. For us to make an award, we would need to decide that the impact on a consumer has been larger than the usual minor inconveniences and upsets we all have.

        It's up to you to think what category you're in. I think you may fall into the Moderate category if the bank has genuinely messed up.

        For

        1) You don't need to have a debit/credit card to withdraw money. ID and signature can be enough. There's no case here.

        2) It must be a massive coincidence that the bank's ID checks on a customer were done wrong 15 times. What exactly was wrong on the ID? I can't imagine a bank's policy on ID check when withdrawing cash without a card/PIN would be too lax?

        3) Banks implement their own policies to protect their money. They don't need to necessarily need to have a system in place to 'red flag' suspicious transactions. If they reimburse you for losses, then perhaps they've done the analysis that it's better to just pay out than monitor peoples accounts. There's no case here.

        I still think you should just let it go, fighting banks generally is a waste of time. They make mistakes ALL the time and each individual reacts differently. Did they catch the guy?

        • +2

          thanks for the detailed answer mate. I will be going through that link to see what can be applied to my case.

          Yes, you are right, the ID is the minimum requirement, but if the bank sees transaction after transaction in a short span of time, surely they can ask for more IDs. My address was wrong (according to what I have been told).

        • +11

          @bluerock:

          i just dont see how the bank can be to blame for your distress.
          they did not take your money , they notified you promptly , and they reimbursed you.
          15 transaction over 24 hours is very suspicious hence you getting a call within a day or 2, when you go to make a withdrawal i dont think the teller takes a extended look at your recent accounts history , nor do we actually know what they can see at the first screen, it might just be a balance summary , like most phone apps , yes they have the option to dig deeper with little effort, but they would/should not do that for a standard withdrawal.

          im just not sure the bank did anything wrong/illegal to make them responsible for any distress you suffered, nor do i think your distress is normal.

        • +2

          @Settero:

          I think it depends if the bank was trying to blame him and tell him he might not get his money back.

          I would assume they would take the blame straight away and reassure him his money will be ok. If thats the case then I can't see how you could ask for anything more.

        • I have a friend who works in fraud in one of the big 4, and while it's idiotic that the checks weren't done properly so many times, it is by no means isolated. He's ever said that people haven't done the checks after its been flagged as fraud, to the point where they have put the word FRAUD in capitals in every free text field they can find, and they still are able to get away with taking more money out

        • +1

          @bluerock:
          I had a bank block my account when I purchased a $10 toaster while in the USA due to 'unusual activity'. I had even let the bank (ANZ) know I was on holidays.

          Am I the only one that buys a toaster while on holidays to save paying to eat out every morning lol?

          I'm surprised they let $50K in cash go that easy!!

          Oh and I generally check my account balances daily where possible to track spending and any unusual transactions.

        • +3

          @greydaniel:
          do you refund the toaster after you're done with the holiday? :P

        • +1

          @greydaniel:
          ANZ full of incompetence.

        • @Settero:
          What he said ^^
          I have had credit card fraud happen on several occasions, apart from the inconvenience of a few phone calls while overseas it was a non issue.

        • @frinik:
          Lol I should bring it home and put it on gum tree!

        • +1

          @greydaniel: I'm surprised that you didnt eat untoasted bread, c'mon what kind of ozbargainer are you? Did you atleast sell the toaster before you left US?

        • +1

          @greydaniel: ANZ Falcon - monitors transactions 24/7.

        • +1

          @greydaniel: The ANZ is well on top of any dodgy activity. It can almost be annoying! I've had one card cancelled and reissued about 5 times now.
          Its the Falcon.

        • @eatwell365:

          "Falcon" isn't made by ANZ. It's made by FICO and is used by most Australian banks. ANZ were just the first to market it despite having it for years. Last time I looked into it NAB was the only one of the "Big 4" I can remember that didn't use Falcon but used something similar.

        • falcons didn't pickup 6 fraudulent transactions on my card recently! ANZ is run by a bunch of (profanity).

        • @Jackson: I can testify to that myself. I went to the said bank while it was frozen due to fraud. The teller did NOT check my ID and proceeded to tell me about the account etc. I stopped her and asked her to check my ID, and handed it over. She just kept it, and I noticed she did not bother to compare the important detail on it (which did not match my account). I wonder how these people are trained.

        • @greydaniel: Thats amusing. They fret over $10 but let go of someone's whole cash. This was my savings account so not something that I check more than once a month.

        • @bluerock:
          Hey there mate, also on another note, I was defrauded of $7500 bucks while buying a car a bit over a year ago, take a read if you could be bothered https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/131581

          I found that this experience really affected my life, every day I was angry and it affected work and my marriage. I never saw a cent back. This is a different experience to what you had but I can relate to how you are feeling.

          I went through so much anguish trying to get this mongrel to pay me back, debt collection, courts everything I could think of, and I tell you what mate, the best thing I could have done was just drop it on day one and start forgetting about it.

          Months of anger and frustration have changed me a little, I am far less trusting and am finding myself looking out for number 1 in all dealings these days where in the past I would be far more trusting of people.

          I guess what I am trying to say is that IMO it's sometimes better to just learn from an experience and move on. Will this change your life - yes. Will you let it happen again? I think we both know the answer to that!

          Use the helpful advice given in this thread and secure your savings and banking details online with multi-factor authentication, and there are quite a few reputable companies that are fairly cheap and specialise in protecting your identity if you want to go that far. (also vote with your dollars and move banks!)

          All the best in your next steps and I hope you can get through this without it affecting your life too much further.

      • Ask bank about password to get money. another tip never have any money in debit/credit card account only move it in there to pay. keep it in account that is card free. i am with nab i have I saver, a saving account, credit card account. my I Saver has my biggest lots of cash in it.

    • +4

      Pigey's advice above and below is pretty sensible except UK law doesn't apply here in Oz, but certainly check out the Banking Ombudsman here.

      As someone who has gone down the legal path before I can honestly say it wasn't worth it. Much too stressful for the result and take forever. My case took years before making headway which is some ways was lost time. And I know you are stressed. Best thing is to have your money back in your account, change banks and manage the relationship with your boss at work. Then allowing "time" to help put this event behind you.

      The best advice I can give to you is to protect your own interests and health…

      This could well mean providing your employer with a medical certificate more as an insurance policy to protect your position at work. Also showing (not handing over) any relevant Police or Bank documents on the matter.

      Seeing as you appear to be under some form of performance management, they cannot do anything much to you if you have a medical condition and your performance turns around back to normal. And given this was out of your control, it should not even be brought up at review time. Remember that people lose loved ones, go through divorces, have cancer scares or other disabling health issues which have similar emotional impacts on their lives and therefore jobs. So manage this action as part of simply making the record at your workplace clear and keep this all in perspective.

      For your own peace of mind it probably also means you need to change banks, not that another bank would be any less risky, but your current bank failed you and you don't need to be reminded every time you deal with that bank. Call this creating some emotional distance. It also removes that niggle that the fraudster may try just one more time. It also gives you back some control.

      Good luck and best wishes!

    • +5

      What is this, Dr Phil?? Welcome to the real world.

      BTW, You haven't lost a cent - and you haven't been fired!!!

      You don't deserve a hug. Pull yourself together and start acting like an adult - that includes getting off the prescription drugs.

      You're Welcome.

  • +2

    Sorry to hear that. This can be like having a car accident.
    Do things that you can control. It could have been worse.

    There is no shame to tell work about the identity theft. See a GP. Get a medical cert if you need and take some time off.

    If this is the 15th impersonator hit the back, ask the bank and police what have happened to all the victims before in term of compensation. Within what period? If there is cluster to a time and within two banks, isn't this link to the bank. Eg. Victims in credit card scam - many credit cards victims had a transaction to the same restaurant - the mole was found it the restaurant skimming customers cc.

    Was it money transfer or actual 50K cash walking out from the bank? Most bank would need notice in advance these days to get over $10K. How can this happen?

    Good luck. Seek help (Hey, you are doing) if you are feeling overwhelmed.You are not alone.

    • Thanks for your reply. It's not the 15th impersonater overall. The person who took this money came to the bank 15 times over 24 hrs the cash from my account in smaller amounts possibly to avoid detection.

      Yes the whole thing was done over the counter. Everyone who I have told this cannot believe how slack the security is at this bank.

      • I dont know how to edit my comment. What I meant was:
        "The person who took this money came to the bank 15 times over 24 hrs and took the cash from my account in smaller amounts (possibly to avoid detection)."

        • Hope you have a good night's sleep.

        • @bluerock: the above is meant to be for rinbond

        • @rinbond: Look out! It's CSI:Rinbond

        • +11

          @rinbond: maybe you missed the title of OP's post

          Impersonated and Defrauded - Advice Needed

          ?? either way, have some compassion and not be a douche so publically…

  • +14

    You say it's causing you this grief, yet you haven't physically checked if the bank has reimbursed you ?

    • +3

      They informed me late on Friday and I was told to go to the branch which wasn't open. Will do it first thing today.

      • Today is Tuesday !

        Why not just ring on Monday ?

        • +6

          public holiday

        • +5

          @huydn:

          public holiday

          Not everywhere

          Call Centres are open 24/7 This is 2014 not 1974. Perhaps Internet Banking/Phone Banking.

          It's $50k, not some trivial ebay payment gone astray. If it was mine, I would be all over it like a rash.

        • +1

          @Baysew:
          Yep
          Could have checked online as well.

    • +4

      According to the retail branch, they have as I just asked them.

  • +1

    Firstly, go and check your bank account before you stress out needlessly and if it's not in there, then contact the ombudsman

  • +6

    And tell your boss why you've been underperforming recently!
    If you're remotely good at your job, that will be the end of your troubles at work for at least another week!

    • +21

      When I broke up with my GF of 4 years a few months ago, I told my boss because I knew it would affect me at work, the next morning he booked a half hr meeting with me, went and grabbed a coffee together and told me it sucks what I'm going through and if I need a day or two off for whatever reason i.e hungover from a night our or to just take care of personal stuff then take it.

      Communication is best.

      • +21

        Wish I could +1 your boss!

    • +23

      My investment knowledge is non-existent, but I believe I still have a right to keep my money in the bank safely. Why are you skeptical about the "story"?

    • +4

      Most people I know have a larger amount sitting in their offset account out for a home loan. I don't think this is the issue.

      • +4

        The money might be sitting there to be a deposit for a house? I had a sum of money that i couldn't invest as i need it to be liquid if i went to an auction and won, and had to deposit money on the Monday. Some bank only allow you to transfer a set amount per day. So easier to let it sit in an account.

    • Entirely his prerogative.

      The 50K might constitute his cash component with the rest of his assets diversified. You have no idea whats going on in his life.

    • +2

      Where do you live? The branches do not need to be next to each other. 24 hours is enough time to travel across Sydney's suburbs (this was done in a few branches but 2 were most hit on).

    • +8

      Why be such a tool, of course that is possible

  • +1

    WHICH BANK ?

    Maybe the same bank as this thread https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/151271

    The OP was a first time poster as well.

    • -5

      I dont want to name the bank unless I decide what I am doing regarding my situation. It is one of the big 4. The thread that you mention is a completely different scenario.

      • +15

        I dont want to name the bank unless I decide what I am doing regarding my situation

        Why not ?

        Ozbargainers will have different insights in specific banks.

        The thread I mentioned was a first time poster to Ozbargain with a "problem" and got snarky/evasive when asked specific questions.

        If you are seeking compensation, why not seek that from the Top 4 bank ?

        How is it going on Whirlpool ?

  • +4

    Maybe change banks..

    I helped someone out last year. Had $300k taken from their account. Had a keylogger on his laptop. Bank refunded everything once he did the paperwork.

    Thankfully we have stuff in place to protect us from this. I would hate to see the total amounts of all that gets refunded but the bank never gets back.

    You might have a civil case to make, but this is a BIG4 bank you are talking about. I am sure their lawyers are better and more expensive than your lawyers. IANAL but you would need to check with one.

  • Did you have a verbal password? If not you should ask to have one put on your account, it will make you feel better as its safer as you need this password when you walk into the bank if you want to do anything.

    Still doesn't stop someone from using a false ID, however if they do it this way they are going to check the ID very carefully.

    For online make sure they use SMS or token verification for all transactions.

    • +1

      this bank does not have the verbal password option. In fact, they have no other layer of security now that I have asked them. Will change banks for sure.

      • +1

        Not westpac/St George then

      • +1

        Or ANZ

        • -1

          Its CAN of course, they dont have the option of Verbal passwords for Savings Accounts. Talk about their cardless cash and all the hoopla.

        • @regenade: ummmm, yeah they do. I use one each time I speak with them

      • +1

        I think its Commonwealth Bank.

  • Since something similar has happened to me, i'd like to know what the catalyst to this was?
    ie. did you recently lose your wallet, cards etc?

    Don't discount the chance that someone working at the bank was in on it.

    • nothing like that happened to me leading up to this incident so thats why it was a shock.

      • -3

        The question was - did you recently lose your wallet, cards etc?

        • +7

          No I did not. My original reply answered the question.

        • +1

          So the "impersonators" just rocked up to the your unamed bank, with nothing more than a fake d/l - with incorrect details (and no card) and just happened to pick your account.

          They did this 15 times !
          And they went only to (mainly) 2 branches, with absolutely no concerns about security cameras, or being recognized.

        • @Baysew: And take out on average $3330 per time?

        • +3

          @Baysew:

          Yeah it sounds pretty unbelievable with no stolen documentation.
          Unless the name and photo of it was remarkably similar. I know some of my asian friends get away with using their brothers ID etc

          I'm gonna go with

          someone you know and trust
          someone you knew and trusted, like an evil Ex
          someone working at the bank

        • when i use to work for a bank a few years back we were told that most fraud is committed by someone known to the person. They would know a lot of the details and were therefore very hard to detect.
          These days we probably dont help ourselves with the level of information we give up about ourselves on the internet.

        • +2

          Do you have any address details that are not updated? Could someone be stealing your mail?

        • @schwinn: I'm quite sure address is updated with the bank, but good point. Unless the bank has not properly changed my address since I moved, it is definitely a possibility considering the blunders it has made with security. They could be sending out 2 statements, one to each address. I will be changing to online statements anyway once I get my account back.

  • Shit happens. I'm glad you ended up getting your money back!

    Hope you bounce back from this strongly.

  • +4

    What idiot thief goes back to the same branch multiple times in the same day? At any point if the bank had tipped off the cops they might have been waiting…

    • -2

      Thieves will try to do stupid stuff, but I guess others need to be smart enough to prevent it.

    • +5

      in reality, the bank teller more stupid than the thief

      • +1

        in reality, the bank teller more stupid than the thief

        In this case yes (or they were in cahoots) but seriously!?
        If not stupid then the thief must have wreaking-ball sized cajones!

      • +1

        with multilpe transactions in a large or busy bank they probably didnt see the same teller twice. Thats assuming the teller is going to remember the face of every customer that comes into the branch. A teller also wont look up and see what transactions you have done in branch when you ask for money, they will check to compare name age and address on the ID, if the address is wrong then thats quite common as people often move and dont update their details. If the name or DOB is wrong then thats something that cannot be ignored but i doubt that detail was incorrect as that is something that is used to look up your account with banks.

        • that is no excuse for a bank to not do the job properly. If there have been large amounts (nearly $10k) withdrawn one after the other, I believe that needs to checked (I dont buy the "too busy" bull). You are playing with someone else's money and in this case I was lucky to borrow some cash from family, but if not, I would have been stuck with no money while these fools try and figure out what is happening.

    • +1

      An idiot thief with 50k ;)

    • -2

      yeah isn't it unbelievable?

  • +1

    Banks have a legal duty to refund stolen funds. If the theft had occurred online only because someone put a keylogger onto your computer and retrieved your passwords, the bank would complain but still return your cash. Seeing as the theft happened in person at a physical branch the bank 100% has to return the money to you and launch and investigation. You were understandably very stressed, but the stress was needless.

    As to the matter of compensation, consult a lawyer. If the thief had to show ID and the ID was not checked then there's something seriously wrong in the procedure. Don't discount the possibility that tellers were in on the theft. One attempt to withdraw money with a failed ID check should instantly raise red flags on your account.

    • +1

      Youre right but unless that was done, I thought it was gone for good. I am pointing at the serious lack of proper procedure in place. To top it off, I spoke to them and they have no way to prevent it they said. They keep on saying if the ID looks like it is "genuine", they will continue to hand out money without 2 step verification.

  • Link to this issue on whirlpool?

    found it: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2320523

    • +1

      Trying to get as many suggestions as possible mate.

    • +2

      Obviously the person has also posted it on Wpool. Hardly a conspiracy. He's even used the same username.

      My advice - If you have been legitimately scammed (i.e not trolling or didn't contribute to it) see a lawyer. If you have a case they'll take you on for a cut of the 'profit'. If not, nothing lost.

      • You'll lose lawyer consultation fee ;) those aren't cheap!

  • +14

    You've been reimbursed. I would switch bank, then build a bridge and get over it.

    • +11

      ^This!

      You do not want to go down the litigation/compensation route OP, I have had literally dozens of clients who struggled with this day in/day out, it makes their life a living hell for years & the payouts even if they win are never worth it once you break it all down.

      Bear in mind too, and without trying to downplay your experiences, that my clients have often suffered severe lasting physical or psychological trauma…but when the case is finally over & they're asked after the fact if they would do it all over again, not one of them would, the system is just that draining.

      The legal eagles are the only ones who win out of these scenarios…the best honest advice I could give is just to move on, get some counselling if necessary (plenty of free options for this), but just move past it all…as the old saying goes, living well is the best revenge!

  • I feel for you OP, if I am you, I will do the same. but IMO, i think you better let it go, keep move on and change your bank. how about Ubank, no branch so no one cant take your money. when someone stole your internet banking password, they still need verification number sent to your phone.

  • Any idea how your ID may of been compromised?

    • +3

      the guy was wearing a fake mustache.

  • +7

    I could be wrong but it seems like you're just trying to get compensation over an unfortunate and rare occurance. If you're with a big 4 bank, you should know that they would reimburse you. You got your money back now, so you could switch to another bank.

  • +18

    Sounds like rubbish. How did they get a convincing fake drivers licence? And what other "ID" did they have? You haven't told us everything OP. Its too vague. No bank on this planet would go oops, here have $50K over 24hrs. And don't you check your account frequently?

    • I dont have time to post rubbish just for the sake of it. If I knew how they got the ID, then that would be interesting, but I do not. They did not have any other ID except the license, and yes, there is one bank on this planet that has given out more than $50k. No, I dont check my account frequently as I did not have a reason to, but I guess I have a very good reason to do so from now on.

  • +3

    Wouldn't the bank have video recordings? Matching to the time of transactions. My bet is on someone that OP knows too.
    As for compensation for health and job performance, correct me if Im wrong, but if the health risk problem existed before all of this, I dont see how you would win the court case. As for job performance, everyone handles stress differently, if you win with this reason, everyones gonna cry just to get money.

    • wow… good on him for trying I guess :P

  • Sorry for the stress this has caused you. Don't continue to stress though by asking non professionals for advice on here. Seek advice from those qualified to give it. Take some time off if you feel you need it but remember there are a lot worse off situations in life that would cause you more pain than this. As other comments have said, if you have the money back then the problem was resolved.

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