Watch Out…
I ordered a new HP Chromebook 14 and they issued me a 2nd hand item initially issued to Depatment of Defence with a label on. I raised an alarm and lodged a complaint with FairTrading NSW today on why the laptop has a label of Department of Defence and a machine code on it.
Thanks.
Why dont you just contact catchoftheday and let them know about this. I am sure they would send you a new one if they have them in stock.
I was send a used item from COTD (a fancy powerboard). I contact them and said that I did not mind, but thought that they should be informed.
They asked for pictures. After I sent them pics of the scuff marks, and scratches, they sent me a full refund.
I think I just received your powerboard 6 years later? It is covered in scratches along with one of the points not accepting a plug.
This is what is so good about OzBargain. When you find a similar occurrence to confirm your suspicions that a retailer would deliberately / accidentally send out 2nd hand items advertised as new.
You need to start with contacting Catch Of The Day.
It would be much quicker than getting multiple government agencies involved.
Was the box sealed ?
Is there any top secret stuff on the PC ?
Nothing top secret stuff….But it needs to be reported since it came over to me. Catch of the day is willing to make a Cash refund and so I may return the item soon. But you cannot dupe the consumer by sending 2nd hand items when you paid for a new item.
Was the box sealed ?
(As you would expect a new PC to come in )
It was sealed as if it is new.
If the box was sealed, then the 2nd hand PC has come from HP.
How could COTD be aware of the contents ?
X-Ray vision ?
We would never knowingly try to "dupe" anyone. This is an honest mistake and we're working hard to help bring a positive resolution to the situation.
Edit: clarity
Thanks and appreciate your response. I am preparing to send the item (Chromebook) back to you and hoping this time either to get a complete refund or a brand new replacement (prefer a replacement). Please bear in mind this was bought as a gift and I am disappointed to receive a 2nd hand item. I do not expect such service from one of the best online shopping sites.
Also in my other parcel, two items did not come from the order when it was mentioned in the list of dispatch items. I have reported to COTD yesterday and they are preparing to send it to me now.
You need to investigate why the supplier is distributing "Dept of Defence" labelled laptops and conduct thorough checks at your end when choosing a supplier. I placed a big order of over $820 in good faith.
I have no idea why you are being downvoted. Thank you for the transparency.
I wouldn't want to be carrying a Department Of Defence stickered laptop around in case people think I stole it. Hehe
@andyfitz: I downvoted because of this line:
You need to investigate why the supplier is distributing "Dept of Defence" labelled laptops and conduct thorough checks at your end when choosing a supplier.
This is a freak occurrence and doesn't warrant "thorough checks". Plus, there is nothing more annoying that a whiny customer who's in the wrong telling you what you "need to do".
Ex DOD computers are auctioned off every day. AFAIK they never have the original HDD in them as they are destroyed.
To be fair to COTD, my company has had this happen too when buying direct from the distributor.
Sometimes returned goods get mixed up in brand new stock, by HP in this case, for some reason I can only speculate on.
In my cases, the Australian distributors were just as clueless as to how it happened.
Assuming COTD buy off authorised distrubutors (which seems likely in this case), neither COTD or their distrubutor would have any knowledge of the item being a return.
It is very rare, but it does happen.
BTW, I am in no way associated with COTD - besides being an ocassional customer.
It's not just HP. We received a Lenovo laptop with another companies asset tag on it. Seemed like it was a manufacturing mistake, it was definitely our laptop but somehow their sticker was applied to it. We contacted Lenovo and they told us to just take the sticker off and use it as normal.
just take the sticker off and use it as normal.
So what normal uses did you find for that sticker?
Normal use is stick it on a really old crappy laptop then leave it on a train and sit back and enjoy the media frenzy.
Oh absolutely, sorry if I didn't make that clear. This happens to all brands I would imagine, in fact - the last time it happened to us it was a Samsung monitor.
This bad !
Horrible production process and Quality Control if seconds get mixed up with Brand new !
I have worked as an engineer and would have been an internal investigation on why that hapenned. what if you got a second hand car …. just use it as new - brilliant !!
Nobody duped anyone. A mistake was made, a refund was offered.
Why do you think this case is worth 5 minutes of a few hundred people who try to look out for people with unsolved problems?
seriously what "special" suggestions do you expect from ozb….
the logic is contact COTD. if they ignore you then paypal dispute. if you really want to laptop then yes NCAT.
Can't agree more, if his asking for sympathy, look elsewhere
He wasn't/isn't asking for sympathy, he was warning others of questionnable suppliers i.e. COTD. How was he meant to know this happens more than it should and it's usually caused by HP?
I was just sharing with users of OZBargain to be aware of such thing happening here.
That cotd are run by humans, who may occasionally make a mistake, but is willing to resolve problem by refunding?
Who cares? Sh1t happens. As if they won't just send you a replacement. Unless they have ignored you or denied you a replacement, there is no need to waste authorities time and $. Where's the common sense?
Contact COTD and ask for them to sort it.
I'm surprised fair trading even accepted your complaint if you havent taken it up with the retailer. You're wasting everyone's time - including ozbargains
Watch Out…
Look its annoying and concerning, but come on buddy, you are not raising it here because of concerns for the common good.
Mistakes are made. Give the maker of the mistake some chance to put things right. The rep here has apologised and also is trying to fix it.
As Davo above said, you are wasting everyone's time screaming about the issue before letting COTD remedy things. Now after they have done that come here and let us know the whole complete episode.
Your original post said you raised it with fair trading. Whats that got to do with your now issue that it's a breach of security? Surely if you were really concerned you would have gone to the Dept of defence so they could get involved.
And why tell the whole world there is a breach? Wouldnt it be wiser to keep it low key at least until they can investigate how this so called breach occured?
You really need to calm down and think logically and stop assuming everyone is out to get you.
You are a member for less than a day, you joined just to hammer COTD for a mistake, that might not even be theirs. And we are going on your word. Hell you could be a COTD competitor trying to make mischief. You sure aren't acting rational.
I have raised it with Fair Trading to let them know that consumer rights are going for a toss under the vile of e-commerce.
What consumer right has been violated? There has been a mistake (not fraudulent), the company has offered you a refund straight away.
It is upto the agency to decide whether they see issuing Dept of Defence laptops to General Public as breach.
Fair trading does not give a damn about DOD laptops. Fair trading only care if a company does not resolve issues in relation to consumer rights. It was a faulty product, they've offered you a refund, that's the end of it.
It is sheer negligence on the part of COTD to allow defence laptops clearly visible on the carton to general public.
The laptop being previously owned by DOD means jack all. If the data has been overwritten, there is a 0% chance that the data can be recovered. The US DOD uses 3-7 passes to override the data, after that it's to whoever wants it. There is nothing required about physically destroying the machine.
frustrating
That's really the bottom line here, you need to consider your options rationally.
@aammiitt2: You miss the point(s)
You shoot first then ask questions later. And you shoot at shadows.
e.g. I have nothing to do with COTD.
Added to this is even after all this you still have a rather juvenile understanding of what to do. e.g.
It is upto the agency to decide whether they see issuing Dept of Defence laptops to General Public as breach.
The only issue Fair Trading is involved with is the misrepresentation of the product you bought. Secondhand vs New. If it belonged to the neighbour next door or my uncle, it has nothing to do with it. All you are trying to do is make this out to be some BIGGER deal as it's the Dept of Defence, which is nothing to do with the issue.
That long term of this for you as a person, is a recipe for drama's all your life. The point being posted here by many is don't complain if when you play this game.
dude grow up
I am going overseas in Nov and I bought this as a gift for a friend overseas. I am not worried about my money but the sheer anticipation to receive an item and later come to know that it was not meant to be yours is frustrating. I do not know if I can get a replacement on time before I leave. Anyways I am hoping to return this item tommorow by Aus Post.
Reading between the lines, it seems that you might be worried that you may not get your TRS refund back when the item is inspected by the Customs, as they might go "Wait a minute, this is a DoD asset!".
These are two separate issues, both completely unrelated to Fair Trading at this stage.
The issue of the DOD computer. You can call the DoD and ask them if the machine is missing, they'll probably want the serial number. It could just be a [fake] sticker, they may have already wiped the computer and released it. There are many legitimate reasons to have that laptop. http://www.defence.gov.au/Contacts/
The issue of COTD "misleading" you into a second hand laptop. If they had sealed it to give the impression that it was a new laptop, then yes i agree, that would be an issue. But it sounds like they've tried to rectify the problem straight away. If you went to court, they'd laugh you out the door, as COTD has tried to resolve the problem.
My last two negative votes have been for COTD, it would be pretty silly of me to neg them if i worked for them.
Having said that, i think you havent looked at the situation rationally. Hence COTD gets a bit of my sympathy.
@aammiitt2: You're just wrong here, OP - objectively. If you have a problem with a retailer, you take it up with the retailer. If they refuse to rectify the situation (and they are actually in the wrong) then you can go further. As it stands, you're an irritating little busy-body wasting everyone's time.
don't tell me that fair trading has wasted my tax to investigate this! geez!
During any dispute, the first attempt on fixing the dispute is between the parties involved directly. A third negotiating party only comes in when the primary parties cannot reach a resolution for the dispute. So you should have tried to sort it out with COTD first. If they refused you a refund etc, then you could have gone to Fair Trading. My 0.02c.
Also, I would assume Defence equipments are destroyed than just sold back for resale/redistribution? That's pretty strange for our Department of Defence I think.
Perhaps I should find a millionaire sticker and stick it on my head, then people will surely think i'm a millionaire
But we already think that you are a happy boy.
Does it have locations and maps saved in Google Drive of secret government buildings which holds aliens and alien spaceships inside them? Or a time machine? :|
Sell it to the Russians.
For Stem Cell research data! :P
Sigh… at least OP didn't use the word 'scam' right?
The OP has posted this in response to some of my comments above.
The outside of the carton pack mentioned clearly that it was shipped from HP China and supposed to be shipped to Dept of Defence Australia.
This can have a create a completely different context to the issue.
If its just on the outside, then it can indicate that this unit was part of a batch of products that was originally to go to the Dept of Defence.
For some reason(s) this hasn't happened.
It could be cancelled order by Defence, or HP supplied some from it's stock before this arrived, so now its being sold.
Given it was a COTD sale, its likely to be a cancelled order.
So all it is is a label from a unit that was on sale. As the OP said, it was sealed so it was a new product, originally intended for the Dept of Defence, now sold cheaply to clear it out.
That doesn't make it Secondhand!!!!
"Intended for sale to" vs "used by"
If it's the former then almost every computer sold in a store may be classified as "used", because at sometime, someone may have considered purchasing it. May have even asked for it to be put aside. The point is it was still factory sealed, so nothing on the box outside means anything in this regard.
If the DoD was having special products with special stuff installed at the factory in any country outside of Australia this would be a concern. Which hopefully they don't do.
In my experience with the military, usually these stickers are issued and affixed by the military/DOD security branch. Usually the stickers come with asset codes and serial numbers to help with internal tracking of equipment. I don't think they will leave it to the factory, distributor to affix the stickers. The stickers are usually restricted items in itself.
I may be completely wrong here and I am unaware of the processes that were involved with this particular laptop. Usually military data storage devices are obliterated with software and hardware (physically) before disposal. The most probably situation is when the laptop was received and registered but unused by the DOD. However, it did not meet requirements for any number of reasons and was returned to the manufacturer/distributor for rectification. The distributor/manufacturer could have decided to replace the laptop instead of modifying it.
Another possibility is that the military/DOD sent it in to a certified 3rd party military contractor for disposal and resale or disposal only but somehow was resold.
The main issue here is the sticker. The process may be completely different from what I know but in any of the possibilities that should have occurred if everything went right, the sticker should not be there.
At least OP did the right thing (did he?) by contacting the relevant government body.
Now I know what the Department of Defence put inside their bulletproof vests.
aaaaand now I don't have any negs left for the day :(
How does one go about figuring out whether the retailer tried to pawn of a second hand / refurbished item as brand new or it was a mistake? Just querying as in the past i have received items from COTD which looked potentially refurbished or second hand but had never stated that on the site when i was buying it.
COTD mentioned in their support notes that the item indeed is a 2nd hand item. Whether it was a mistake or something else is not me to judge. But as a consumer I have every right to raise a voice when I see something is not genuine when I paid for a new item.
I have posted the item back to COTD via registered post now so that the item gets safely delivered to COTD and I get a positive resolution after so much inconvenience.
If you were walking down a street, then accidentally dropped your phone, you realised after 5 steps forward so you turn around, to find this man behind you picking up your phone. Do you immediately shout and call him a thief/criminal and report him to the police, or do you wait a few seconds and give him a chance to hand it over to you?
OP calls the police, the council and ASIC
Ooops + voted this by accident…
To OP, do you realise your rights haven't been violated until the seller refuses to resolve the problem? It was just a mistake.
So until your rights are violated you don't need to waste Fair trading resources, and you don't need to warn people here either.
the laptop has a label of Department of Defence
OP's in Sydney, perhaps he should have taken it to Lakemba & sold it to some wannabe ISIL dropkick…prolly would've gotten top dollar for it! :P
Why would you mention a suburb name? That's just a stereotype and dumb. Do you think all the ISIL wannabes lives in Lakemba? They can be from any part of Australia.
I don't live in Lakemba but it really bothers me to see people make comments that makes someone feel targeted.
FFS, talk about precious.
Why would you mention a suburb name?
Well, I wouldn't really be saying Cabramatta in this context, now would I…
Cotd have come very long way. This is a genuine mistake, move on..
If you anything about corporate and government leasing, you wouldn't be wasting your time.
Not sure what you would have said to fair trading office, Victorian consumer affairs asks for written correspondence, which COTD are happy to resolve
The laptop or the box? Christ, if you buy a laptop from JB Hi-Fi, it usually (in the case of HP) has a JB address sticker on the box. Doesn't mean it isn't new.
OP - properly describe the details. Was it the laptop with the sticker on it or the box with the sticker on it?
If the laptop or carton had a COTD label I would not have raised an alarm. Just think it is DOD with an asset code?? Put some mind to it. Plus, COTD Support guy after verifying the Serial number from me mentioned in his notes that this is a 2nd hand item and should be refunded. What more proof do you need?? Geez…
The outside of the carton pack mentioned that it was shipped from HP China and supposed to be shipped to Dept of Defense Australia. There was a sticker with a Asset Code for DOD on the carton and another DOD sticker on the laptop chromebook screen after you open the carton pack. I have seen that many of the OzBargainers have disliked my comments but put yourself in my place and think through. I raised first it with COTD and then raised it with Fair Trading not because COTD is not ready to refund but for authorities to see how this goof up happened. Someone should be answerable to all this shit. I raised it all because of DOD Australia sticker.
And you know what's going to happen to your complaint? Filed away in someone's waste paper basket.
If it was truly a military security lapse, heads will roll all around.
I reckon, contact the government agency with the asset code and laptop serial number before you return it to COTD. Call me paranoid but that should keep your behind relatively covered from the resulting investigation should security lapse have taken place.
I have Asset Code, Serial number, pictures of the Chromebook with me but the item has been returned to COTD via registered post today.
I would pass the details on as soon as possible.
Don't worry I wont share those details. I raised this for transparency and fairness but now let COTD deal with their mess. I was fair to COTD as I mentioned in my comments that it could be a mistake or slight negligence on their part. But you cant let such things go under the rug when you know it could be a breach as well.
Thanks OzBargainers for your valuable comments and have a wonderful weekend. No more furthur inputs from my side.
I meant to pass the details on to the a government agency associated with defence. No idea which one.
Somebody negged you for erm what? Just because they did not agree with your attitude/comment in the beginning?
C'mon ozbargain, forgive and let live a little. We're not such a vindictive community eh?
Giving you an upvote to make it neutral.
Sidenote : OP was probably pissed+outraged+concerned and maybe in that state he thought that the best government agency to contact would be fair trading? Wrong no doubt but I would not put it past any confused and unsure person to do that.
Don't worry I wont share those details.
Thank goodness, who know what the hackers on here might do.
I was fair to COTD
By dragging them through the mud without giving them a chance to rectify the situation? yeah right.
There hasn't been a security breach. When big companies / government departments order computers the vendor sticks an asset sticker on there for them. All that has happened here is a box with a brand new laptop in it intended for the DoD has gone to CoTD instead or DoD cancelled an order and HP forgot to take the sticker off.
Never said there was. I am completely unsure what is going on. Just stating from my experience with the military. While finding it highly unusual that DOD sticker with asset number would be left on the laptop if no mistake was made anywhere. Most probably the laptop would have passed through the DOD IT security for the sticker to be there.
A mistake does not have to be a security breach though. The asset could have been struck off but somebody forgot to remove the sticker. The drives could have been obliterated and replaced with a brand new one by a contractor hired to dispose of DOD computers, but somebody decided to resell it and forgot to remove the sticker.
Or it could have been perfectly fine like what you said that DOD cancelled an order and the dealer/distributor actually regularly supplies the government or its sensitive agencies and they were contracted to also help manage IT inventories.
I'll have to say again that all this is plain speculation from me and we have no idea what happened. Despite that, it would still be best to inform a relevant (not fair trading) government authority of this "irregularity". Would help protect the OPs behind in any case.
in my experience COTD has been dodgy as hell. They only acted on a compliant of mine when I sent them a bill for my time. Bunch of incompetent pole smokers.
However- in the interests of fairness, I'd say they probably should have mentioned this stock was from a cancelled order, but OP is being a bit precious.
We always try to delivery the best customer service possible. I'm happy to look into the outcome of your interaction with us, if you like?
Did your bill get paid?
Talk about over reacting.
Oh, Ozb… you are a fickle bunch.
This thread needs to be closed by an admin.
zzzzz
What are the odds DoD are using Chromebooks?
Why would HP in China send a used Chromebook back to Australia?
Something doesn't sound right here.
Good point. Why is DoD using a Chromebook… underpowered much. Unless Australia is the titanic
It could have been a possible Proof-of-Concept device, there they were testing it to see if it matched their needs. Obviously it didn't, and they returned it.
MAYBE, JUST MAYBE. this could be a conduit that a clandestine black bag triple agent embedded in china or hp china uses to get information to his controller who is posted to fair trading as a cover.
COTD + ozbargainer = fair trading + ozbargain community forum outrage additional cover.
To all the people telling OP to pull his head in-
This is a legitimate tactic when dealing with COTD. They are one of the worst companies I've ever had the misfortune to deal with.
I only received a refund from them after months of chasing by sending them an invoice for my time.
will never buy anything from them again.
Time to let go. This thread is more than 5 years old.
@baysew- yes I just noticed this. Very odd- I didn't check dates when replying.
Oh well, I'm impressed that I've been able to maintain my rage for so many years…
Kind of surprising in an underwhelming way to think DoD using Chromebooks….. You would think they would be using something custom built on top Kali Linux or something more secure and covert.
OP - any update on this thread? I have been waiting nearly six years.
Why dont you just contact catchoftheday and let them know about this. I am sure they would send you a new one if they have them in stock.