Difference in rights between AUS citizenship and permanent residency/Advantages of citizenship over PR

Lysander on 03/12/2014 - 11:34

Hi there,

I am trying to help somebody complete his process to obtain Australian citizenship after his PR. However, he is originally from a country which does not allwo dual citizenship, with one exception which is a formal application to his government justifying and reasoning why he needs to have Australian citizenship.

This needs to be well argued as otherwise the government will simply just reject it (and he does not want to give up the original passport as it has EU work rights attached).

I would be grateful if anybody knows any difference in rights or any advantages that Australian citizenship has over Australian permanent residency.

What comes to mind for me is:

  1. No loss of work rights and residency rights if asbent from Australia more than five years - no need for resident return visa
  2. Some companies such as Airbus, Boeing etc. as well as some government department require citizenship because of the sensitive nature of their work or industry (defence) so therefore, better job opportunities can be argued (even for example an accountant or solicitor who could not work for these companies due to this requirement)
  3. Possibly access to some scholarships for education which permanent residents have no access to

So, if any of you know any more reasons (based on different rights or advantages of citizenship and disadvantages of PR), please let me know. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Education & Work

Comments

  • burningrage on 03/12/2014 - 12:05
    +4

    Citizenship vs PR

    Pro
    Can work in Defence. PR you can't
    HECS. PR no HECS but Commonwealth still support cost
    Visa free in many countries. PR depending on your host passport
    No need RRV. PR must have RRV when the visa expires (no need to renew RRV even if RRV visa expires provided you don't leave the country). RRV costly.
    Relative good support overseas (see how many aussies in trouble overseas)

    Cons
    Must vote. PR only Local Council election.
    Dual citizenship ramification. Indo for example bans dual citizenship except U18s and if you're caught, your asset will be confiscated

    • Darron65 on 03/12/2014 - 12:20
      -2

      PR must vote in local council election? That's news to this PR.

      Also what is HECS?

        • Darron65 on 03/12/2014 - 12:39
          +2

          Cool, thanks. Guess I should've googled.

      • burningrage on 03/12/2014 - 12:38

        Well I voted. Not sure its compulsory though. Its one voice per property so if u have 2 properties in different municipalities, then 1 vote in each municipality.

        On reflection maybe it is not a PR thing but rather if u own property you can vote in local council election.

        • Glittergirl on 04/12/2014 - 23:08

          In Sydney, everyone has to vote in local elections. Found this out the hard way when I assumed it was rate payers only; it wasnt.

      • Almost Banned on 03/12/2014 - 13:42
        -3

        Voting in local government elections is not compulsory.

        • GaryQ on 04/12/2014 - 07:29
          +7

          Tell that to the fine I received for forgetting there was a Council election.

        • retiredfeline on 04/12/2014 - 10:46
          +5

          It depends on the state, it seems. It's not in SA, WA and TAS.

        • Almost Banned on 05/12/2014 - 14:41
          +1

          @greenpossum:
          Wow. I guess I stand corrected.
          Definitely not compulsory over here. I had no idea that local government polls were compulsory elsewhere.

        • terlalu on 10/12/2014 - 10:05

          @greenpossum:

          it actually depends on the local council.
          some require voting, others don't. some require a postal vote, and some still require you to line up on the saturday to cast your ballot.

        • retiredfeline on 10/12/2014 - 11:22

          @terlalu: Well that's not true in NSW at least. It's mandatory for all local councils: https://www.elections.nsw.gov.au/voting/penalties_for_not_vo… which makes sense because it would have to be uniform for the state.

    • MondaySleeper on 03/12/2014 - 12:59
      +2

      well, you missed most important one - call for Jury Duty. you can give 3 excuses and 4th time, mostly you will be slapped with a fine :)

      Sab

    • Bunnyburger on 05/12/2014 - 12:00

      Anyway to get around the Indo/Malaysian ban? I know of some people that do that. They're powerful people though.

      • westernculture on 05/12/2014 - 16:41

        those people that do that basically do it in secret, which is illegal.

    • edgar28 on 05/12/2014 - 16:05
      +2

      "Relative good support overseas (see how many aussies in trouble overseas)"

      yeah when they are in need they call themselves Australian, when Australia need thier help, they said they are different country citizen……not good in terms of Country stability, who you loyal to?

    • westernculture on 05/12/2014 - 16:39

      Not only confiscated, you will be put to jail first and fined like $50K.

      You also lost your inheritance rights.

  • Lysander on 03/12/2014 - 15:19

    Thanks burningrage - I did not know about HECS but that will be a very good argument as without HECS education would be unaffordable for many people.
    The visa free thing would not fly as there are some passports (including the one this guy has) which offer more countries visa free.
    I think I will focus on work in defence/certain jobs, HECS, and the "no RRV required" when drafting the application for him.
    If anybody has got anythng else any info and hint is appreciated.
    Thanks again burningrage.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/12/2014 - 07:33
    +30

    Citizenship is not a business transaction, it's a matter of pride. The way in which you flippantly talk about it, as if it's merely a convenience your friend should be entitled to, makes me think he is probably not deserving of such an honor.

    • macfanboy on 05/12/2014 - 08:23
      +9

      Everything boils down to business.

      Option 1. Pay $1000 and feel proud.
      Option 2 Pay $0 and don't.

      Been here for over 30 years (British) and I couldn't be bothered swearing allegiance to the queen (whom i don't believe in) at some council chamber and paying for that privilege in front of others.

      Australia gets all my taxes.

      Same with my passport, much cheaper to renew my British, than to obtain an Australian one.

      I suppose that if you came from a depressed 3rd world country then you would be very happy and proud.

      To me I can't see the point, but hey each to their own, just sharing my feelings.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/12/2014 - 13:35
        +11

        With an attitude like this, you don't really deserve to be an Australian.

        • ukmark on 05/12/2014 - 14:40
          -5

          It is a strange thing tho. I am obviously British, but took Australian citizenship for DOD reasons. I didn't sing advance Australia fair at my citizenship ceremony though, as I still see myself as British.

          My kids are dual nationals as well. Just because you become an Australian citizen, it doesn't mean you should give up whatever other nationality you are.

          Plus, being forced to vote is the most undemocratic thing ever, and leads to terrible government choices.

        • Baghern on 05/12/2014 - 16:00
          +1

          @ukmark:

          What happens when we go to war against Britain?

          I believe we should remove dual citizenship and put a middle tier in.

        • edgar28 on 05/12/2014 - 16:07

          @Baghern:
          Left hand slaps the right and vice versa

        • ukmark on 05/12/2014 - 17:14
          -4

          @Baghern:

          you lose.

          Simples.

        • Baghern on 05/12/2014 - 18:04
          +1

          @ukmark:

          Our Chinese Overlords have something to say about that

        • maxall on 05/12/2014 - 18:40

          @ukmark: if non-compulsory, why bored? Mate, all politician are the same…tiny difference…

        • abbztract on 05/12/2014 - 18:53
          -1

          Wow. That's how you decide whether or not one deserves to be on Australian? Damn you have some bad criteria.

        • ukmark on 06/12/2014 - 00:18

          @Baghern:

          Aus relies on China, not the other way around.

        • MementoMori on 06/12/2014 - 17:22

          @ukmark:

          Not so. We have a reciprocal relationship which you wil if understand more when food becomes hard to come by in the future.

        • ukmark on 06/12/2014 - 18:49

          @domcc1:

          Thanks Tony

        • edgar28 on 06/12/2014 - 18:55

          @domcc1:

          that's NZ …… 150 billion vs 5 billion (AUS) worth of food export

        • Lysander on 08/12/2014 - 17:56

          @Baghern:

          What if your other passport is Swiss? There would not be a problem there as Switzerland does NOT go to war.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/12/2014 - 20:09

        I think most people who are born in Australia would feel that this comment is disgraceful, and I doubt any Australian born citizen would plus your comment. I was born in England too, but I have Australian citizenship by birth, and I think that you claiming that citizenship 'boils down to business' is an offensive comment.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/12/2014 - 14:23
      +3

      Pride and Honour rhetoric ! Zzzz

      • [Deactivated] on 05/12/2014 - 17:43
        -1

        Comments like this should result in instant deportation.

        • Filename on 05/12/2014 - 18:36
          +3

          Along with xenophobia and racism

        • [Deactivated] on 05/12/2014 - 19:27
          +3

          @Chromagi:

          If that is what you are trying to accuse me of, why don't you show me exactly where I have been xenophobic or racist, because all I am talking about is patriotism, and the right to belong.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/12/2014 - 14:59
          -4

          @thorton82:
          Aussie should make it hard to become a citizen, especially those who aren't born here, otherwise this country is just going to be swarmed with people who doesn't actually willing to defend this country if it comes under attack. they just escape and go back to their original country and abandoned their precious aussie passport here. Pfft.

        • Baghern on 06/12/2014 - 23:15
          -1

          @zan123:

          yep, damn westerners…

        • Mrgreenz on 07/12/2014 - 13:34
          -2

          @zan123:

          The ones that can't write in English are the worst

        • [Deactivated] on 08/12/2014 - 13:37
          +1

          @thorton82: Patriotism has been a good way to hide jingoism

    • westernculture on 05/12/2014 - 16:44
      -3

      Agree with you, if you want the honor to be an aussie, then serve in the army or navy or air force. otherwise you're just an immigrant who likes to be called aussie coz you got a piece of paper that you purchased with $1000.

      • OzzyOzbourne on 07/12/2014 - 15:31
        +2

        I presume you and all your family and relations living in Australia have served in the army then.
        And why does Killing people you don't know just because your government tells you to, make you deserve to be an Australian citizen?

        • iridiumstem on 10/12/2014 - 04:14
          +1

          No offence to you or whatsoever like that, but I think it is bit wrong to say army's job is:

          Killing people you don't know just because your government tells you to

          Even though some people said war is an act of violence to compel our opponent to fulfil our will, as far as I can see, soldiers job is to prevent war, if war happens then to protect civilians, land and such at cost of their life. They go through drills and exercises, preparing for something that they want to prevent and don't want to see happening. Just saying.

      • Lysander on 08/12/2014 - 17:47

        Well, I think you should do a bit of research.
        It is more like $125000 for monay people I know. Also, I agree with Australia stopping to rip-off the foreigners and making immigration and visa granting a business. But what would happen if it did? Think about all the immigration employees, immigration agents etc. who would lose their jobs. You would have 50000 unemployed on your hands at once.
        Furthermore, what do you think about those business visas where you can become a PR pronto as long as you have held investments worth %750000 for a certain duration - that amount is laughable for rich people (and remember, most rich people did not get rich by being nice, honest etc. - think the Russian oligarchs for example or even the guy in NZ (where rules are similar), Kim Dotcom. He was in jail in Germany and yet because of his money he had no troubles getting into NZ.
        And I second Ozzy's question (albeit modified): what have you done to deserve the honour of being Aussie (other than being born to Aussie parents possibly)?

        • brongz on 10/12/2014 - 03:47

          blame it to govt policy. with money you can buy PR or citizenship. with money you can buy property which make demand high and price even higher, even if you don't have residency.

  • RibaldGadfly on 04/12/2014 - 08:15
    +4

    Indeed! My original country wanted me to ask permission to get additional citizenship. To me it was something I wanted as a question of belonging and identifying as Australian. I now only have Australian citizenship. As the poster above says it's a question of pride, I'd add honour and integrity. If it's a shopping list of pros and cons go look elsewhere.

  • OZB Al on 04/12/2014 - 08:17

    Friend of mine is PR kiwi and is having problems getting a mortgage. Seems the banks have different rules.

  • Amores on 04/12/2014 - 10:35
    -3

    Well I know personally a person who couldn't have double citizenship either. So he applied for Australian citizenship and kept quiet about keeping the EU passport.

    Just need to be careful to show the right passport at the airport.

  • lenlynn on 04/12/2014 - 12:20
    +3

    Please tell your friend not to do his application with those main reasons. The reasons you stated should only be secondary reasons. Main reason for wanting aussie citizenship should be seeing himself as an Australian, identifying with the country and culture, him not being able to see himself as a citizen of another country (since he might has to have his original citizenship revoked).

    And then put the other reasons in as additional incentives that happened to come along with oz citizenship. Fyi, for your first point, not all PRs have to stay 5 years else the PR gets revoked; only PRs on certain visas and even so, the govt gives an option - if you pay them $xxx, you get an extra one year to return, so that might not be a strong reason. Plus if you include that reason, they might be wondering if your friend plans to leave Australia for an extended period of time. However, even "permanent" PRs need to renew the passport thing to have an overseas holiday.

    HECs csn be a gd reason depending on how you phrase it.e.g. I hope to contribute more to Australia/the world and i am applying for medical school and can't afford to pay up front without HECs. That was my friend's reason for giving up her SG citizenship and getting Aussie one.

    • lenlynn on 04/12/2014 - 12:29

      Oh my bad. I thought your point 1 was referring to PRs on some work visas having to stay a total of 2years in a period of 5years otherwise their PR gets revoked. Ignore my second point:)

  • Lysander on 04/12/2014 - 13:32
    +7

    I think there is some confusion here.

    Providing this reason has nothing to do with the Australian side of things. Australia allows multiple passports and therefore the normal citizenship requirements apply.
    It is the other country, who by LAW, asks for good reasons to be allowed to keep their passport.
    While I understand the pride thing, as a practical thing, if you could give your children the right to work in any of the EU countries whenever and wherever they wanted without having to go through burdensome visa requirements (which really are not getting any easier) why would then just simply give up your Eu passport if by making such application you could keep it?
    An Australian passport entitles you to work in Australia and NZ and that is it. The fact that I advised my Aussies in London who were desperate to stay in Europe longer, shows that even for very proud Aussies this is quite an attractive option.
    This is not about whether one is proud to be this or that - I am sure my friend is as otherwise he would not want the Australian citizenship but at the same time he would like to keep his original passport which people might or might not understand and sympathise with.
    The fact of the matter though is that the other country, the EU country, ask for such application and in it one has to demonstrate (1) ongoing ties to the EU country and (2) good reasons why getting a second passport is necessary and an exception to the general rule should be allowed.
    Therefore, any such things, in addtion to what burningrage has said, would be welcome and greatly appreciated.
    Thanks everybody.

    • lenlynn on 04/12/2014 - 14:43

      Oh yes, understand what you mean now thanks for the explanation. Sorry I can't think of any other reasons other than those alr stated. Hope he gets it!

      And hope my country will one day allow dual citizenship too.:p

  • conan2000 on 04/12/2014 - 13:36

    Does the application to the EU country have to go before they applies for Australian citizenship?

    Do they actually need Australian citizenship?

  • Lysander on 04/12/2014 - 14:31

    Well, before getting Australian citizenship (or any other) you have to have made a successful application as otherwise you automatically and immediately lose your citizenship.

    Given the fact he is likely to have clients in the defence business I think it would be useful as not being able to work with those clients would hinder his career prospects.
    Also of course, if you have worked very hard (eg. by doing a PhD or a Master degree) to get all the points for PR, you do not want it to disappear if you have to work abroad because your company sent you there or because you take a job in the Middle East for a couple of years to make some money.
    The whole visa system here is not designed to protect Australia or its interest but merely to make money, money, money (e.g. a partner visa costs almost 5 grand - on top of that are medical costs etc.) - that is not the true cost of considering the application - a huge portion of that is mark-up.
    Anybody on Ozbargain would agree that if those costs could be avoided (for example RRV), then one should avoid them. Being a citizen you do not have to have a visa for everything - it is quite a hassle having to get a RRV even if you go on holiday.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/12/2014 - 23:23

    Some companies such as Airbus, Boeing etc. as well as some government department require citizenship because of the sensitive nature of their work or industry (defence)

    Its odd they think citizenship somehow makes you more trustworthy.

    • Baghern on 05/12/2014 - 16:02

      Easier to prosecute spies and they know your history

  • Geekomatic on 04/12/2014 - 23:48
    +9

    As a migrant to AU, and very contrary to the rest who've posted here:

    PRO:

    Being able to vote!

    Being an Aussie!

    Not sure how there are "CONS", otherwise, you wouldn't be trying to migrate here??

    I <3 AU!

    • scotty on 05/12/2014 - 14:43
      +5

      Hehe. My wife finally decided to become an Australian citizen last year (after 13 years on a PR visa) so that she could vote in the federal election! How bizarre!

      • westernculture on 05/12/2014 - 16:46
        -1

        Was she a chinese citizen? if that's the case then its good thing for her, coz in China she can't vote either.

  • XoiThit on 05/12/2014 - 00:31
    +1

    As an Oz, when you're oversea, Oz government MIGHT protect you better than your original country (depending on the country).

    • [Deactivated] on 06/12/2014 - 15:02
      -3

      Not really, if you're a dual citizen then oz gov will protect those who is a true oz citizen (not the dual one or naturalised one). true oz is the one's that born here, they don't have that paper which can be bought with $1000, go figure.

  • NightFlight on 05/12/2014 - 00:38
    +2

    Why such secrecy about this ominous "EU country"? It's commonly known that Germany has this requirement and there's plenty of information on the web on how to argue the case - mainly in German but a good English summary here for example:

    http://engl.doppeltestaatsbuergerschaft.com.au/reasons-to-re…

    Lysande, why are you drafting the application for him? I would tell him to get in touch with other Germans who have already successfully applied for dual citizenship or find examples of draft applications on the various German forums!

    • Lysander on 05/12/2014 - 16:19
      1. Germany is not the only country like that and while some others might have worded it differently, it is still in their discretion to grant dual citizenship and hence it needs to be argued. Germany provides a good guidance but just because it works in Germany does not mean it will work in another EU country. There is also a difference if you have not been born in the EU but have been given that passport through naturalisation, too. The requirements seem to differ unfortunately and if the government asks for reasons then you should supply it in that case I believe.
        I will have a look at the link and try to find some others - maybe there are more reasons than the ones already mentioned here.
      2. In Europe (maybe here, too but not sure) the caseworkers normally are a bit more careful about rejecting an application if someone professional is involved such as a notary, judge, doctor, or legal professional as there is always a risk the matter is appealed (a lawyer can do it himself, the others have the funds or connections to do it - that is the thinking quite oftent over there - I am not discussing whether it is right or wrong or justified - that is just how it is in my experience) which obviously will not be good for their work record.
        Therefore, I am writing it for him to increase the chances of acceptance. Of course if you can write "legalese" that helps, too as it signals to them they cannot BS you.
        Hope the epxlanation is satisfactory. Thanks again for the link and the suggestion to contact some Germans who have done it (if I can find any that is - they are not exactly listed in the phone book unfortunately) ;-)
  • Cluster on 05/12/2014 - 01:32
    +2

    Australian citizens can be called for jury service - permanent residents cannot. I completed jury service earlier this year and found the whole process fascinating. It's not nearly as onerous as people may imagine. A friend did jury service later this year and didn't even sit on one trial.

  • nikey2k27 on 05/12/2014 - 06:30

    Might i ask what other country is?

    • Wally on 05/12/2014 - 21:49
      -3

      Deutschland

  • coolsteps on 05/12/2014 - 08:37

    just get au citzenship dont inform the Eu country they wont know. btw you dont need a passport to enter or work in Eu if you have a EU identity card which is cheaper than a passport. just travel the world on aussies passport and enter Eu using ID card. if its a couple i'd advise that the highest income earner get AU citzenship and the other remain on PR that why you will never loose any reentry rights if away more than 5 years etc. since your spouse is a Aust national or even vice versa going back to EU your spouse is entitled to a special EU entry visa. thus best of both worlds.

    • Hikey on 05/12/2014 - 14:52

      That's not correct. You need a passport to enter or leave the EU, you can however travel within the EU only using your national identity card.
      You will also be asked to prove your Australian residency status via visa verification online (VEVO) when applying for a new passport. If you are found to be an Australian citizen without having approval to keep your (assumably) German citizenship, you will not get a new passport, because you lost your German citizenship when becoming Australian.

      • coolsteps on 06/12/2014 - 09:41

        fyi i have always entered the eu on my id card and departed no worries. no passport required for eu countries with identity cards.

  • burningrage on 05/12/2014 - 10:23

    I thought the question is about the advantages/disadvantages of Citizenship vs PR.

    Of course citizenship should be taken up as a matter of national pride.

    I am equally disappointed with the notion of "what's in it for me" when deciding citizenship but the question is merely comparing PR and citizenship ramifications. That is for another topic to discuss.

    One thing that I omitted with regards to PR is that PR is always subject to Character Test. Put yourself on the wrong side of the law, your chances of being refused RRV will immensely increase if not your visa being revoked. Citizen cannot be deported.

    And yes, I forgot the Jury Duty.

    • Jared17 on 05/12/2014 - 17:29

      Lol. Citizens can be deported now bro. Try and fight in Syria and see how the Aus government will react about your citizenship.

      • [Deactivated] on 06/12/2014 - 15:05

        Not only that bro: http://www.citizenship.gov.au/current/losing_citizenship/

        If you became a citizen by application you can have your citizenship taken away if you are found to have committed a serious criminal offence prior to gaining citizenship. Australian citizenship can be revoked if:

        • you have been convicted of making a false statement or representation in relation to your application to become an Australian citizen
        • you are convicted of a serious criminal offence at any time prior to becoming a citizen involving a sentence of 12 months or more
        • your approval to become an Australian citizen was gained as a result of migration-related fraud
        • your approval to become an Australian citizen was gained as a result of third party fraud; for example, fraudulent conduct by a migration agent in the citizenship application
        • it would be contrary to the public interest for you to remain an Australian citizen.

        An Australian citizen by birth cannot have their Australian citizenship revoked. Similarly, a person conferred citizenship, after fully disclosing all relevant factors, cannot have their Australian citizenship revoked.

        People who have their citizenship revoked can be removed from Australia.

        • scynaz on 06/12/2014 - 23:26

          It's not that easy. Revocation is only really an option for dual citizens, and that too under very rare circumstances. You can't just render someone stateless if they have no other citizenship:

          "Additionally, the Australian Citizenship Act (the Act) prevents a Minister from revoking a person’s citizenship if he or she is unable to become a national or citizen of another country, and in such a case, the Minister cannot cancel the person’s citizenship status."

          Cancelling visas, even permanent ones is something the minister can do much more easily.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/12/2014 - 17:19

          @scynaz: In the case of joining ISIS, I guess they'll lose it outright and becomes stateless, considering ISIS is not even a state.

        • Lysander on 08/12/2014 - 17:53

          The last pointed you listed contradicts you.
          Even if you were born here, one could argue that if it si contrary to pubic interest for you to remain an Aussie citizen, your citizenship could be revoked. And if the government is really keen to get rid of you (for example, because you are the biggest mass murderer in history) it could just pass a separate Act of Parliament to get you out. Simple in countries like Australia. So maybe be more careful in the future - no-one is truly safe! ;-)

  • Hikey on 05/12/2014 - 11:47
    +2

    He is most likely German, Germany has that condition in their citizenship legislation. I recommend that he argues in his application for the German "Beibehaltungsgenehemigung" (that's what the piece of paper is called that allows you to keep German citizenship when applying for another) that he plans to apply for a job where he needs security clearance that requires Australian citizenship. Search for army jobs or most jobs in Canberra. Just type "Canberra" and "Citizen" in seek.com.au and see what comes up. He does not really have to apply, just print two or three job ads and attach it to the application.

    There is also a German Yahoo online group called "Zweipaesse" where Germans discuss the problem in detail. Lots of information there (in German: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/zweipaesse/info)

    • Lysander on 05/12/2014 - 16:22

      Again, the German thing will be useful guidance. Thank you.

  • xabiso on 05/12/2014 - 17:29

    For government scholarships, PRs are eligible to apply. I believe it is strongly merit based.

  • cmafra on 06/12/2014 - 12:36
    +4

    PRO = Be an Australian MATE!
    Cons = None, This is the lucky country!

    Just did my ceremony in Nov, got the passport and I have a huge feeling of belonging here now.

    p.s.: Brazilian by birth, Aussie by heart!

    • [Deactivated] on 06/12/2014 - 15:07
      +1

      And you still have your brazilian citizenship too, otherwise you probably think twice first isn't it.

      • cmafra on 08/12/2014 - 09:38

        no! I would have traded in without a blink.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/12/2014 - 11:09
          +1

          At least you can still play for the brazilian national football team:)

        • Lysander on 08/12/2014 - 17:54

          What if the Brazilian passport would have given you the right to work and live in the EU forever and wherever you want? Plus a better social system than in Australia?
          Would you then still have given up that passport without a blink?

        • cmafra on 08/12/2014 - 21:36

          @Lysander: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/reply/172930/2422651
          Yes. To became an Aussie you generally have to be here for 4 years. Thats a lot of time to make up your mind if you like it here or not. In my case, I was counting the months and days to apply for my Australian Citizenship.

          And the Brazilian passport is not too bad, you can enter europe without a visa, you can work anywhere in LAM as well…

          But I love it here!

        • Lysander on 08/12/2014 - 23:59
          +1

          @cmafra:

          That's good - I am happy for you.

          But I think that given the choice of having 1 passport or 2 passports most people would elect to have 2 and keep their original passports.

          Hell, I know some people who have four passports so having two is not really bad.

        • cmafra on 09/12/2014 - 10:34

          @Lysander: I am not saying that have 2 or more passports is bad.

          I am saying that had given a choice of having one other passport and only one, I would pick the Australian one.

          In other words I don't get it why people stay 4+ years here and still are not convinced about getting the Aussie passport , even if they will lose their original one. Like Chinese people…

          If you don't like it here, go back to your original place…

        • lenlynn on 09/12/2014 - 12:27
          +1

          @cmafra: There can be other reasons. I love staying in Australia and will never move back permanently but family is still in my original country. My parents will get old one day, what if I need to move back for a few years to take care of them? It will be more convenient to still be a citizen. What if my children prefer to be a citizen of that country instead of Australia? You can't just generalise and say that if I don't have an Aussie passport it means I don't like it here.

          For me, being an Aussie citizen doesn't offer enough pros to outweigh the cons of giving up my citizenship of the other country.

        • cmafra on 09/12/2014 - 13:13

          @lenlynn: fair enough. On the topic of taking care of aging parents, I would prefer to bring them here instead of me going back there to help out.

        • Lysander on 09/12/2014 - 13:21

          @cmafra:

          But that is because the living standard in Australia is presumably higher than in your native country. This is not the same for all of us.
          I am only here because of my partner and the kids who are in school here, not because the living standards and conditions are necessarily better than in my original country.
          Also, my mum cannot fly anymore, so bringing her here is impossible. The flight would kill her.

        • iridiumstem on 09/12/2014 - 13:26
          +1

          @Lysander: Just to add to this point, I've heard many old people who moved to Australia (and other places) getting depressed from not being able to communicate with any people. They do have their friends and they do have their own circle. Removing them from that shouldn't be done lightly.

        • cmafra on 09/12/2014 - 14:28

          @AznMitch: yes this is a valid point. It is not for everyone to migrate. It is a huge change in your life.

        • lenlynn on 10/12/2014 - 11:53
          +1

          @cmafra: Yes they cannot abandon their entire life for their child can they. My parents have their siblings and friends around them, and they find the country to be much more convenient, cheaper, cleaner and safer than Australia, with the first point being a big plus for when they get older as they don't drive.

          and I don't have 100k to bring both over. It costs 30k now for the initial temp parent visa and 20k for the 2nd final application. That's for each parent. The noncontributory visa takes up to 30 years (as said in the immigration website).

        • [Deactivated] on 20/05/2016 - 20:25

          @Lysander:

          May I ask which 4 passports they have?
          I can qualify for 4 and am wondering whether to do it or not.
          I currently have 2.

  • lgacb08 on 09/12/2014 - 16:19

    If it's too difficult to argue with that country, try to move another EU country which allows dual citizenship and shortest residency requirement, stay there and get another passport, go back here, get the Aussie's one, problem solved :D

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