Patients Face New $20 Fee for Seeing Their GP [Sign Petition]

sagrules on 13/01/2015 - 09:46
Last edited 22/01/2015 - 10:39 by 1 other user

Came across this article this morning regarding changes to Medicare charges that will be implemented in the coming weeks on 19th Jan.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/patien…

Thought it was over when they couldnt pass the $7 GP fee through the Senate - so here they are by passing it in another way.

The new changes basically mean:

  • If your doctor bulk bills they will absorb the pay cut (sincerely doubt this). The article says "It will prompt many doctors to stop bulk-billing shorter consultations because the payment does not meet their costs"
  • If your doctor charges a fee you will receive $16.95 rebate. Depending on what your GP charges this will change your "out of pocket" or gap" fee

I believe this new fee structure will increase waiting times at the GP or place additional pressure on local hospitals (for those wanting to avoid the fee). Can anything be done to stop these changes?

EDIT: If everyone could please sign this petition, that would be great. We need to get the word out!
https://www.change.org/p/the-hon-sussan-ley-quit-targeting-g…

EDIT: So the private industry's response to this is to increase the cost of PHI for everyone by 6% a year (triple inflation) so that more people rely on the public system and don't take it up.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/why-private-health-insurance-…

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Comments

    • khao on 14/01/2015 - 11:12
      +41

      some people have recurring health conditions unrelated to diet and exercise

    • JH100 on 14/01/2015 - 18:38
      +1

      As long as the cross-benchers don't fold it won't happen (for long) - http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jan/14/bill-s…

    • Cantdecide on 15/01/2015 - 12:07
      +2

      I agree, I know someone who is freaking huge and is constantly whinging about their health. Wont do anything about it and updates facebook everytime they get taken in an ambulance etc…I think they think it is a game with extra points for a medevac with the RFDS.

      On the other hand one of my kids is a heart kid. We have private health insurance but it is still expensive every year.

      I think you get what you pay for … I am willing to pay for superior experience and knowledge to help my kids.

  • iridiumstem on 13/01/2015 - 10:20
    +28

    As a person from a country that has a better health care system than Australia in terms of cost and quality, I've always thought Australian health care system was convoluted. My country's constitution states that everyone is entitled to seek happiness and thus the government guarantees a minimum standard of living with health care.

    I honestly think that Abbott is trying to impose a tax that basically hurts the weak ones of the society.

    Even if it goes through, it wouldn't do much to begin with in terms of tax since most GPs I know don't record the time but have it defaulted at 10 minutes. In other words, it's either going to hurt the weak ones in the society or it's going to just incur costs in changes in registration without doing anything, I honestly don't know which one is worse.

    • whooah1979 on 13/01/2015 - 10:22
      +5

      which scandinavian country did you come from?

      • iridiumstem on 13/01/2015 - 10:23
        +14

        South Korea, I paid 5 bucks for removing my wisdom teeth.

        • whooah1979 on 13/01/2015 - 10:24
          +1

          my bad.

          edit
          s.korea was ranked #59 by who in 2000 and australia was #32. they stopped ranking countries after that.

        • sagrules on 13/01/2015 - 10:26
          +7

          I also assumed Scandinavian country before you replied.

        • iridiumstem on 13/01/2015 - 10:32
          +1

          @sagrules: I would've made the same assumption. South Korea isn't exactly known for being a socialist country, which it isn't. Honestly there are controversies around it. The coverage should account income as well (it's equal for any Koreans) and everyone pays no matter what, but I think it's one of the things that I like about my country.

          Though, I am not sure about the correlation with the constitution, since I remember hearing that it was that it caused the whole health care system to be like that, but I am not too certain since I've never studied law.

          EDIT: This being said, it would be almost impossible to have similar thing in Australia. Part of the reasons why it could work is, in my opinion, because South Korea has such high population density that doctors don't need to charge as much as Australia for them to stay in business.

        • whooah1979 on 13/01/2015 - 11:23
          +1

          @AznMitch:

          $5 per teeth extraction is cheap. there is no way oz can match that.

        • ilikeradiohead on 13/01/2015 - 13:21
          +1

          Dentistry isn't covered in Australia unless you're really poor, like on welfare, and then it's rationed so many people have to wait years for something that they could get immediately if they paid for it.
          Is it a good system? Who knows.

        • toniyellow on 13/01/2015 - 13:23
          +10

          I worked in Korea teaching English in a public school and was enrolled in some kind of public health plan working there.

          I paid $400 for a root canal and crown, which is much better than Aus.

          But they do the root canal over 5 visits, no anesthetic, just scrape out the root a little at a time, close it up and go back another day to scrape out more. Checked with my korean colleagues in case it was torture the foreigner day and they said that is the done thing. They also put an eye mask on you so you can't look at the dentist whilst they are working. Closest thing to torture I think I will ever experience.

          Better cost, but I would not say better quality.

        • iridiumstem on 13/01/2015 - 13:30

          @toniyellow: That's weird since I don't remember any of my dentist appointments to be torturous. Though that being said, I have heard about how certain places cut cost… I don't know, I still prefer Korean one, at least I can get something done in a reasonable set time period.

        • BoomTetrisForJeff on 13/01/2015 - 22:55
          +1

          i got into a fight and my teeth were removed for free, looks like you got ripped off JOKES ON YOU!

        • what on 13/01/2015 - 23:12
          +2

          funny

          sorry, my funny comment was for mrwillc.

          I think all countries that have free health care for their citizens are amazing.

        • [Deactivated] on 13/01/2015 - 23:25
          +2

          @what:

          Coming from an oriental country too I was like "My country's constitution states that everyone is entitled to seek happiness" - nah can't be an asian country.

        • iridiumstem on 13/01/2015 - 23:45
          +5

          @lolbbq: I got the wordings wrong but:

          Constitution of South Korea, Article 10: Right to Pursue Happiness

          "All citizens are assured of human worth and dignity and have the right to pursue happiness. It is the duty of the State to confirm and guarantee the fundamental and inviolable human rights of individuals."

          To what extent that this is doing anything is questionable, but it's interesting to see something like that.

        • razorack999 on 14/01/2015 - 07:53
          -1

          @toniyellow:

          very ill informed post this one

        • onlyletters on 14/01/2015 - 10:49

          Yes they can.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2015 - 12:52

          @AznMitch: can we get this in australian constitutiin. Wait… what constitution? :)

        • GaryQ on 14/01/2015 - 17:12

          I assumed Bhutan, as their national currency is Happiness

          Just waved goodbye to a South Korean couple who were couchsurfing with me for the last few days. Now they have tasted Australia (and kangaroo), they want to move to Melbourne.

        • Hoju on 14/01/2015 - 21:06

          @ilikeradiohead:

          That's not true.
          Three weeks for my appointment.
          Two for my wife's.
          All free.

          An awful lot of Australians are on some form of Centrelink benefit, so using the word welfare is also very vague. To be more precise you have to have a health care card.

        • ilikeradiohead on 14/01/2015 - 21:44

          @Greenspoon: Fair enough, I haven't actually had any interactions with the public dental system. I guess it also depends on what you're getting done and where you live. And the health care care is even more restrictive than getting some forms of welfare like youth allowance. But my point stands that dentistry is not generally covered by the public system.

        • jackary on 16/01/2015 - 07:40
          +1

          @ilikeradiohead:
          You are entitled to a health care card if you are in receipt of any centrelink benefit (short of drought assistance payments, etc).

          But you're right. While I'll try not to complain as ultimately it's free, there is an enormous waiting list for public dental. I'm currently having my wisdom teeth removed, and they are being taken out individually, one appointment at a time. All by different dentists, all at different surgeries - simply because I can no longer afford to wait. I'd say I'm in a fairly considerable amount of pain. Good on you for getting all of your appointments within the month but the simple fact is public dental in this country is rubbish. Ask an OAP how long they had to wait for their dentures.

        • Diji1 on 16/01/2015 - 17:03

          @AznMitch: Heh - amazing. For a long time I have been reading over and over again that the USA is the only nation to enshrine a right to persue happiness in their constitution.

          Turns out the academics are wrong. Again.

        • Diji1 on 16/01/2015 - 17:04

          @invalidwithoutphoto: …

          We have a constitution.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/01/2015 - 17:03
      +4

      The Mrs is from Mauritius . They have free healthcare … as in you don't pay anything at all,zero, zip, zilch, nada. If you want to read about it link

      • iridiumstem on 13/01/2015 - 21:23
        +1

        Nice :) That place sounds so kewl.

      • vbguy2011 on 13/01/2015 - 21:59
        +2

        hey, I'm from MRU too :D

        you're correct, although public hospitals almost exclusively prescribe panadol and antiobtics for practically all illnesses. Oh and the medicine is free too.

        And it's free for anyone, whether citizen or not. good stuff.

        • [Deactivated] on 13/01/2015 - 22:20
          +1

          Free education including university. Free public transport for students and pensioners…amazingly beautiful place… Great selection of local beers too :-)

        • lplau on 13/01/2015 - 22:37

          @Jar Jar Binks: Good selection of other exotic creatures? lol.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2015 - 00:22
          +4

          @lplau: It depends on what you are looking for in a woman, Iplau:
          1)amazingly beautiful and exotic-looking? Ticked!
          2)Speak at least 4 languages? Ticked!
          3)highly educated? ticked!
          4)Sexy? The national dance is the sega. Here's a link to a pg-rated version of the dance link The real thing is like foreplay, except that you don't actually touch each other. Its all in the body language and the anticipation.Its amazingly erotic.
          They usually have these spontaneous sega parties on the beach at night : they'll light up a bonfire and play something called a ravanne and people just start dancing. There's the sky full of stars above you,the warm sand under your bare feet , smoke from the bonfire in your eyes, rum running through your veins, the soothing sound of the crashing waves and your heart is pounding to the beat of that rustic intrument …. its the most alive I've ever felt :)

          Highly recommended..both the country and the exotic creatures who lives there:)

          Edit: Forgot to mention, they have a to-die-for french accent

        • Miss Dior on 15/01/2015 - 15:06

          @Jar Jar Binks:

          A friend of mine is from Mauritius. He's been here since the 1960s. He says its a great place but there's no jobs there and that's why he headed for Australia. His (later) wife followed then all her family. Is the lack of jobs a reality? If so, how do they pay for all the free public goods and services? I can only think there must be a lot of public servants… but the taxes to pay for these things have to come from somewhere and if jobs are scarce, I'm wondering how this all fits together. Have I been given a wrong steer?

        • [Deactivated] on 15/01/2015 - 20:14

          @Miss Dior: Mauritius gained its independence in 1964. A lot of things would have changed since he has left :)

          Btw,I'm Australian. I have been to Mauritius twice and both times I was blown away by the beauty of the island, the friendliness and generosity of the people and their way of life.

          So not exactly an expert on the Mauritian economy but I did a quick google search and came up with these articles that might help answer your questions:

          Btw, the employment rate in Mauritius is roughly the same as Australia's.

        • Miss Dior on 15/01/2015 - 20:19

          @Jar Jar Binks:

          Thank you. I will have a read. I'd like to visit there someday, mostly because of how pretty he says it is.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/01/2015 - 20:22

          @Miss Dior:
          He and I are not the only ones saying its pretty.Mark Twain wrote: "You gather the idea that Mauritius was made first, and then heaven was copied from it." :)

      • [Deactivated] on 13/01/2015 - 23:41
        +5

        It was like that in old eastern europe, everyone EVERYONE got a job, free education, free health care including dental, free meals at work and school, almost free public transport… although the pay wasnt that great, and you had to bribe officials to get it NOW otherwise wait a month for it. But everyone had everything they needed. And then came democracy and PAYG. Damn!!!

        • anonymous8 on 14/01/2015 - 19:05
          +2

          Everything is so complicated now. You walk into a store and there are 20 different types of milk, cheese, butter….. Back then life was easier you just got state milk in a plastic bag. The weeks shop was done in under 30 seconds.

        • ldq on 17/01/2015 - 22:14

          @anonymous8:
          What's wrong with that? All milk I every buy is home brand, I don't understand why we need 20 types.

      • Shadow54 on 14/01/2015 - 09:01
        +1

        Not what I've heard….. My sister-in-law lives in Curepipe Mauritius and says very few people can afford the cost of medical check ups or routine tests (pap smears, etc.)

        • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2015 - 16:12

          ??? Its all free unless you want to have the tests done privately, then obviously you'd hv to pay.

        • Diji1 on 16/01/2015 - 17:10

          @Jar Jar Binks: Yeah its all free in Australia too and it's great if you don't mind waiting 24 months to get treatment for the medical issue that's lowering your quality of life.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/01/2015 - 18:03
          +2

          @Diji1: My SIL had to have treatment for pre-cancerous cervix cells. She has dual citizenship. Here she was told she would mostly likely be on the waiting list for 6 -7 months.Her doctor advised against waiting that long so she went to do it in Mauritius. The waiting list there was 8 days and it was all free.

      • iridiumstem on 14/01/2015 - 07:41
        +9

        Since I am on my way to the air port, I will try to be brief. I personally find Australian medical system to be less efficient than Korean one because, population density is too low. I found better medical cares in my hometown compared to Townsville and Canberra because the doctors are scattered everywhere. Doctors are too far apart, and they are always busy. So I sort of see the problem in the system. Doctors are paid more here than in Korea, but that being said, we get paid less overall and technically speaking if Australians who earns far more than Koreans feel that they cannot see doctors because of price, I think it says something. I think what government should be doing is trying to fix the system, not reduce subsidies.

        Also, your argument should not be applied for government. Government is there to protect its citizen. If the government starts leaving people behind because of money, then what good is the government?

        • burningrage on 14/01/2015 - 08:51
          -2

          The negs says it all.

          People would rather milk the country dry rather than trying to save them.

          If citizens don't care about their own country, then what's the point saving a country?

          Re: AZNMitch, you are right that Govt is there to protect its citizen, but will the citizen protect the country? The citizen is not asked to pay 100% but to increase its contribution.

          Personally, I don't like it either but I will share with you what changed my mind.

          My son is diagnosed with Autism Spectrum. With this, I become eligible to a number of supports. Supports that came from Feds in the form of FACHSIA, supports from the state in the form free and subsidized therapies plus Carer Allowances.

          I looked at my tax return (and those of you who remembered with the tax debate in the other forum, I don't earn much) and I saw myself that I received more support than the tax I paid. The thing is I need these support.

          At that moment, I feel ashamed. I am a burden to the country. It feels even more painful to hear a Centrelink officer telling me "that's the commitment this Country has for your son, remember that"

          So I learned to try to think it from the country's view. Support the country that supports you.

          Neg me if you want. I owed this country enough to bear the negs and I am not even a citizen.

        • iridiumstem on 14/01/2015 - 09:46
          +4

          @burningrage: I am not sure why you assumed I negged you. I usually don't neg; everyone is entitled to different opinion, as long as it is not insulting, I let it go.

          Anyways, boarding soon so I will throw my 2c quickly. There are many ways to change welfare system and I personally think what this government is doing is temporal and waste of money. I think one of the main problem is, population density. This being said, it's purely out of my observations and what I felt during my study in Australia and life from Korea. You cannot have a massive medical service centre because population, everything is spread around, inefficiency occurs. So wouldn't reducing the inefficiency be the solution?

          Inequality, unhealthy population, any negative consequences that can come out of this decision is not something that a government want, I personally think it will do more harm to Australia than its benefits.

          EDIT: I hate this analogy of company = government but I will use it. Companies invest on human resources for many reasons. If you feel bad about the support, think of the country as investing on you and investing in the society.

        • dazweeja on 14/01/2015 - 10:39
          +1

          @burningrage:

          Maybe you were negged because anectdotal evidence is weak so your conclusions are worthless?

          Instead, I offer a study that looked at almost 35,000 GP-patient encounters in 2012 and 2013 and showed the average consultation was 14 minutes? This average has remained consistent for the past 12 years.

          http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/new-20…

          How about the fact that money spent on health per person in Australia actually fell for the first time in a decade last year? That growth in spending from state and federal governments is at a record low?

          http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/govern…

        • burningrage on 14/01/2015 - 10:50
          +1

          @dazweeja:

          At AZNMitch: I didn't assume you negged me. I actually didn't think it was you. But even if it was you (or others), it's ok. I am referring to the overall negs. Have a safe trip. I know this probably wouldn't get to you till later.

          At DAZWEEJA: I gave my personal experience. I learned in times that I cannot rely on statistics (especially when it is reported by Fairfax re: companies don't pay tax but in fact they have carried over tax losses) simply because it can be skewed to serve whoever's purpose.

          But I truly respect all of you who agree or disagree with me.

          I can testify this is the experience I saw at almost every GP I have attended to (only because I've moved houses).

          There may be different statistics that may counter your links but my point is health care costs are nominally one of the largest expenses especially with aging population approaching and I am just not sure country's own welfare has been thought about.

        • dazweeja on 14/01/2015 - 11:08
          +7

          @burningrage:

          The reason why this policy is terrible is that primary care is the most efficient part of our health care system. If anything, we need policies to reign in costs with specialists, investigations and procedures. This is where the cost of health care is blowing out. Discouraging people to see their GP is counter-productive as it means people enter the health care system at a more expensive phase and the outcome is worse for the patient. I have no problem with increasing value for money in the health system as a whole but this is just bad policy.

        • Diji1 on 16/01/2015 - 17:19

          @burningrage: And yet here you are making assumptions from your own statistics you measured at one clinic. How many people did you measure in your statistic collecting before you got bored. 10? LEL

        • [Deactivated] on 16/01/2015 - 17:53

          @burningrage: Some hilarious stuff: "Medicare was designed for 20 minute consults; you can't trust Fairfax" (your example is absolute rubbish). If major companies and individuals weren't avoiding tax we wouldn't be having hysterical discussions about Medicare at all. Time to do what the conservatives in the UK are planning - bring in deeming taxes.

          That said, the 6 minute medical sausage factories do need some regulation. Simple answer - limit the number of patients any doctor can see per day or part thereof, or more simply, the maximum number of consults Medicare will pay to doctors operating in this manner.

          Good to see this "policy", like the previous $20 health tax, has been dumped. Apparently unpopularity determines policy these days. Welcome to the most incompetent government and clueless PM in the history of the nation.

        • burningrage on 16/01/2015 - 22:49

          @Diji1:

          Go and see other clinics for yourself. I have had my say on this topic.

      • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2015 - 12:55
        +2

        Why the negs? I believe him/her. Ive seen the 6-minute consultations regularly

      • kat123 on 14/01/2015 - 21:36

        i believe you refer to Burwood medical centre, they bulk bill for 10 minute consultations, which is what Medicare rebate them for.

        Sure sometimes this takes less time, but I can assure you its a 10 minute session being billed not 20.

  • Namkcalb on 13/01/2015 - 10:59
    +22

    Does Abbott actually care about being reelected any more?

    • sagrules on 13/01/2015 - 11:14
      +28

      Probably not - but the biggest issue here is that most of the negative changes he has made while in government may or may not be undone in the future by the next government. So we need to stop him NOW while he is still trying to get them through.

      • enforcer on 14/01/2015 - 10:38
        +6

        Whether it is reversed or not in future, these changes will be a great target for ALP in the next campaign.

        • ProjectZero on 15/01/2015 - 15:20
          +2

          I don't think ALP will need to spend much for the next campaign…

          one ad with "I told you so" on it will do…

        • iridiumstem on 15/01/2015 - 16:08

          @ProjectZero: Or even 5 seconds of Abbott's picture.

        • 2ndeffort on 16/01/2015 - 13:20

          @ProjectZero: To which the Libs will just have a picture of KRudd and Juliar along with some narrative about our debt, people killed with pink bats, thousands of drowned asylum seekers etc etc

        • ProjectZero on 16/01/2015 - 14:22

          @2ndeffort:

          Good point about the debts, but that will take time to remedy. Broken promises on the hand… not that easy.

        • 2ndeffort on 16/01/2015 - 14:25

          @ProjectZero: Shorten will have the same problem, how does he get past all the broken promises that Rudd and Gillard made.

        • ProjectZero on 16/01/2015 - 14:28

          @2ndeffort:

          He'll just not show up, that's how. Haven't heard anything from the opposition "leader". Actually, is he still the leader?

          Whilst, I'm sick of both these parties, from my prespective, ALP seems to be the lesser of two evils at this point.

    • Kempe on 13/01/2015 - 18:56
      +8

      I think he knows he will not be leader by the next election

    • ProjectZero on 15/01/2015 - 15:18

      I'm starting to think liberals are trying to screw up Australia with as much irreversible crap as possible before they get kicked out, which I'm hoping is soon.

    • Cluster on 16/01/2015 - 12:59
      +1

      In some ways, we would be better off with politicians who didn't focus on getting reelected. Sometimes tough and unpopular reforms are required. It's just too easy to borrow more money, kick the can down the road, and know the dire consequences of your in actions will be felt long after you're out of government or dead.

      • sagrules on 16/01/2015 - 14:41

        While I agree with you about playing politics can seem like trying to win a popularity contest - there are some things that you just cannot do like pick on the poor, elderly or the sick. Especially when there are many other reforms that can be done that are not even considered. One example was the watered down MRRT and another is the tax loopholes that multi-national companies are using to avoid paying tax in Australia e.g. Ikea, Apple etc.

        • 2ndeffort on 16/01/2015 - 15:47

          Very very partisan comment. Pretty sure none of the political parties pick on the poor. It is a very tired stereotype to say 'the libs just look after their fat cat mates that slip them corrupt money'. You only have to look as far as blokes like Eddie Obeid and Craig Thompson to know that the battle-lines arent as black and white. You also have to understand that the world is more complicated than 'bosses and workers'.

          We have one of the world's most generous safety nets and social welfare systems, there are loads of studies that prove this. Watering down the MRRT meant very little as basically it wasnt worth the paper the ALP rushed together and wrote it on as a political stunt and none of the mining companies were paying it anyway and even if they were, the backside has fallen out of the mining industry and there isnt anywhere near the money they predicted anyway. In terms of the Global tax dodging, we aren't the only country caught up in this and it was a focus at the G20 to find a way that governments worldwide could team up and put forwards laws to stop it. If you want to point the finger at Abbott for this you do realise that the same companies were getting away with it through 2 terms of KRudd/Gillard/Swan long before Tony took the helm.

        • sagrules on 16/01/2015 - 16:18

          @2ndeffort: When Iron Ore prices were on a high during the KRudd/Gillard Govt the MRRT meant quite alot actually - if it didnt those Mining companies would not bother creating a whole campaign against the previous government and get the MRRT watered down.

          One of the reasons "we have one of the world's most generous safety nets and social welfare systems" is because people like the Whitlam government sawa a need and introduced good policy which was of benefit to Australia's people.

          I understand that KRudd/Gillard/Swan dealt with the same issues regarding the tax evasion of Global companies and I'm not saying there is an easy solution to this. But what I am saying is that Abbott has bigger fish to fry and the Abbott government has yet to prove itself and introduce good policy.

        • [Deactivated] on 20/01/2015 - 18:16

          @2ndeffort: agree there's good and extremely bad in both major political houses and their supporters. That said your summation of the MRRT shows a very poor knowledge of the facts. Had Abbott done the right thing by his country instead of "doing everything but sell his arse to get into power" (his own words) the original MRRT would have been passed, and like the PRRT (also vehemently opposed by the conservatives) it would have ensured a fair share of the huge windfall profits went to the owners of the resource - the commonwealth (ie us). As it was the big players in the mining industry played the two parties against one another and we, and future generations, lost. Labor under Gillard (and Swan) watered the legislation down so that companies were able to claim write-downs up front - precisely when the tax would and should have been being paid. Resource prices had come off the boil by the time they actually had to start paying under the pathetic new rules. Nevertheless for a government whinging about tax receipts it makes zero sense to drop income earning taxes such as the MRTT and CT, and in the case of the latter actually give billions of taxpayer dollars to the bigger polluters. The megalomania of some modern politicians who put their egos before what's best for the nation is a disgrace and a tragedy for those to come.

        • sagrules on 22/01/2015 - 10:59

          @Possumbly: Well said! :-)

  • Glider on 13/01/2015 - 11:30
    +13

    I haven't been able to see a bulk billing doctor in any of the places I've lived for the last 10 years. So this rebate cut doesn't just mean I have to pay an extra $20 to see a doctor. Currently an under 10 minute visit costs me $75, with $37 Medicate rebate. Under the new scheme this will mean that to go an see a doctor will cost me nearly $60 out of pocket.

    I already avoid going to the doctor unless I'm really sick, but this new cut puts even more pressure on making a decision about whether I think I can possibly at all get better on my own without medical assistance.

    This is also a terrible impost for people in workplaces that require sick certificates to stay home from work. If you have a minor cold, it's the right thing to do to stay home until you get better and don't spread it around your workplace. But at $60 to be allowed to stay home, generosity towards co-workers becomes diminished. I'll just bring extra tissues and Purell. Then everyone is unhappy.

    • sagrules on 13/01/2015 - 11:46

      @Glider I'm not sure where you live but some areas have both bulk billed and non- bulk billed practices. It is just a matter of doing google search in your area to see if any come up.
      Hope this helps.

      • Glider on 13/01/2015 - 12:30
        +3

        Yes, there have been one or two but they do not take new patients as they are over capacity already.

        • sagrules on 13/01/2015 - 12:59
          +1

          Some feedback to give to this government.
          What about ones a bit further out from you?

        • arcticmonkey on 14/01/2015 - 07:33
          +5

          @sagrules:
          Sadly, the Abbott government only seems to listen to feedback from its big business mates and wealthy miners (people who donate to it).

          Good luck getting them to listen to an everyday person.

        • Miss Dior on 15/01/2015 - 15:56

          @arcticmonkey:

          It seems this is the Liberal party all over, not just at Commonwealth level. The NSW Liberals seem to only be willing to listen to their developer mates. I find it interesting that at least two Chairmen of Infrastructure NSW were previously the Chairman of developer Stockland. It seems the NSW Government is interested in only one thing, helping their developer mates to pave paradise and put up parking lots.

          Unfortunately that is driving many of those who have lived in rural areas, e.g. Leppington and the formerly rural Campbelltown areas, to leave so that city dwellers can move in to poorly built housing estates. These people would generally prefer to be living closer to Sydney but can't afford it. They are quickly finding they can't afford even the outer suburbs as the developers get away with driving up prices for poor quality product and are assisted in this by the NSW govt. In a couple of decades many of these areas will be considered as slums with social problems caused by the overcrowding.

          The roads then get clogged because there are 200 houses where once there was 1 (take a look at the background to Stockland Willowdale development). Local residents get no say on the planning within their own areas since the State govt is taking powers out of local Council hands where ratepayers at least have the opportunity to lodge objections should they wish.

          The Liberal party has become excellent at alienating their own demographic and ignoring rural/country people placing the coalition at risk. It seems they think only big business votes - or they hope they do. The sad part is that the opposition needs to get their acts together so that they can make these govts accountable. Good opposition is an essential part of good government - in all policy areas.

          Like arcticmonkey says: "Good luck getting them to listen to an everyday person".

        • 2ndeffort on 16/01/2015 - 15:36
          +2

          @Miss Dior: The Liberal party will only listen to their developer mates? As opposed to the former NSW Labor ministers Eddie Obeid and Ian Macdonald, how were they looking after everyday people's best interests when they were carving up mining leases in the Bylong valley for their selves?

    • c64 on 13/01/2015 - 13:38
      +2

      I haven't been able to see a bulk billing doctor in any of the places I've lived for the last 10 years.

      dunno. lots of bulk-billers around me.

      gps must be making a killing rewriting prescriptions for viagra etc which only takes a couple of minutes.

      • sagrules on 13/01/2015 - 13:47
        +1

        LOL!

    • salamander on 14/01/2015 - 00:11
      +1

      I don't understand, why do some GP's have to charge so much? Is the consultation fee something non-bulk billing GP's decide of their own accord?

      • burningrage on 14/01/2015 - 10:52
        +1

        My family GP charges $77 of which $30+ something is back.

        I also don't understand why too but I think it could be due to the overheads (like insurance, etc).

      • Incrediho on 14/01/2015 - 12:08

        GPs in Australia are some of the highest paid in the world (not like "top 10", like top 2 or 3 of ANY country). Conservative salaries for FT fully-qualified GPs are over $200k.

        Personally I hope they absorb the cost. They can definitely afford it.

        Also @burningrage - I really don't understand what your argument is re: "I hate people milking the country dry… but also I accept generous government benefits". Are you basically saying it's OK to accept government support as long as you feel really bad about it?

        You also mention a desire to support the country that supports you, but you seem to loathe (what you perceive as) high tax rates (re: Tax minimization thread). So… You should support the country that supports you, by accepting government benefits and feeling really bad about it — all the while paying the least tax possible to… "save it"?!!.

        I… the contradictions… can't… fathom…

        • salamander on 14/01/2015 - 12:51

          That's what I was also thinking, GP's are among the most highly paid professionals in our society. Despite this, I believe I heard on ABC news this morning that most GP's will be passing this fee onto their patient's.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2015 - 19:10

          Based on the rebate the government is providing now a full time GP would earn GROSS $95,000 that's before deducting any expenses such as receptionists, software licence fees (thousands per year) , indemnity insurance (tens of thousands per year, that still needs to be paid after retirement), electricity, rent, accounting fees, required annual training etc. And after all that, plus countless hours of unpaid work calling specialists and hospitals for patients, the government is now valuing them at less than the rebate for a nurse practitioner who doesn't have a doctorate. Basically there isn't a GP in the country who could even pay their expenses on that rebate, much less absorb it. Who here could survive a 66% gross income cut?

          I earn more than a GP and I don't require a single qualification to perform my job, my expenses are nil, I can't kill anyone through any accident, and my chance of being sued for doing my job is basically nil.

          GPs are sued all the time, even when they're not at fault, they usually win, but that still involves countless additional unpaid hours with lawyers proving they did everything they could for someone who was just unlucky or had another doctor who was at fault.

          I honestly don't know why anyone would bother being a GP, specialists have it easier and make stacks more money. Ironically GPs are probably already the cheapest and most efficient part of the health system, there is plenty of waste, just not in the rebate which has been basically frozen for over a decade.

        • Incrediho on 15/01/2015 - 04:27
          +1

          @Bargs:

          Wrong. Keep in mind these figures are SALARY. Not billings.

          http://www.astermedical.com.au/outside-of-australia/doctors-…

          http://www.gpaustralia.org.au/content/what-can-you-earn (just as a secondary source, also note that quoted earnings are for just for registrar GPs)

        • jackary on 16/01/2015 - 13:02

          @salamander: Well that's a very narrow sided view indeed. Why shouldn't they?

        • burningrage on 16/01/2015 - 23:30
          +1

          Thanks for your comment Incrediho.

          The quick answer to your first question is that I didn't know that I was ever going to need any Govt support until my son's condition and it does affect me financially. So yes I do need it. The amount of support I received so far has exceeded the amount of tax I paid so I feel bad.

          I have been reflecting what was said above this and probably I shouldn't feel bad. I guess I was raised not to take (or feel indebted as someone said above) more than I give. I don't know, I am still thinking about all of comments above (and thank you for all who agreed or disagreed with me).

          With the second question, I feel it is not right to ever tax someone at nearly 50% even at $180k. I know overall tax is not 50% but if every dollar after that amount $180k means over than half (after GST/Council Rates/Water) goes out as taxation, then personally I would rather not earning it as at that level of income, the stress and the sacrifice (eg: not spending time with my child or can't even take time off to bring kids to doctor) that comes with the occupation would likely be also doubled.

          In both, all I am saying is I am happy to pay my tax for our country and would have been content not to enjoy any Govt Support at all. The fact that I am getting support now means I am grateful for this country and I just want people to consider how to help this country reducing its debt.

          Maybe this GP rebate reduction is not the way. I acknowledge that but when I went to GP that quickly revolves every 6 minutes (in my observation at least) I feel this may not be right. Someone pointed out this particular clinic I used as an example only claimed for 10 minutes rebates. If that's the case, it's my ignorance and I apologize for misleading the Ozbargain audience.

        • burningrage on 16/01/2015 - 23:33

          @Incrediho:

          Wow. This is an eye opener. They sure earn a lot, don't they?

          But their profession are also risky too… risk/benefit payoff I suppose.

        • Incrediho on 20/01/2015 - 01:41

          @burningrage:

          Fair enough, thanks for clarifying :). I don't necessarily agree with your opinions on progressive taxation - but I can understand your perspective that it could act as a disincentive to high income earners (although high income earners are not automatically the hardest working with the most stressful positions and longest hours).

          A sense of agency/responsibility and desire for equality is admirable!

      • Peck on 14/01/2015 - 13:53
        +2

        To get a plumber to come to my place will cost me $130 for the first hour and $120 per hour thereafter. And a plumber has a lot less education and a lot less overheads than a doctor. I think that GPs are underpaid and plumbers are overpaid.
        Regarding bulk billing practices, some 'full payment' practices will bulk bill for a follow up consultation, and also bulk bill pensioners.

        • Incrediho on 14/01/2015 - 14:12

          Well you did just pick probably the most expensive trade service (especially for private call outs). While you have to include travel time in that fee, plumbing is often dirty, physical/uncomfortable work, and consider that GPs often bill well over $200 an hour, and are more likely to get back-to-back customers —> I agree plumbing services are overly expensive.

          However, there are 1000s of different jobs/professions in Australia. Picking some of the most egregious examples and then saying GPs are underpaid… isn't really a reasonable position. That's like saying armed robbery is petty crime next to murder. If you want to run with that comparison then 99% of other careers are even more terribly underpaid.

          Can't they both be in the minority of careers that are significantly overpaid?

        • Peck on 14/01/2015 - 15:26

          My only recent experience was with a plumber.

        • eve on 18/01/2015 - 14:21
          +1

          @Incrediho:

          So in your opinion, what do you think doctors should earn? What do they "deserve" in your opinion? Who in your mind deserves to earn equal or more or less?

          Again, top % in high school, minimum 6 years in university full time, minimum 6 years further job training with further exams ("just" for metro gp training, extend that to minimum 9 years+ for other specialties), difficult hours (on call, long hours, overnights), lifelong ongoing study/education to keep up with changes in information, caring for actual sick or dying people…

          You've mentioned the plumber's physical difficulty, what about doctors' mental and emotional health? What about blood, faeces, urine, vomit? What is it like to care for dying people or people suffering from depression for example, and their families daily?

          What kind of pay or "lifestyle" or "comfort" do you think they deserve?

          (Not saying that doctors are overpaid or underpaid, just putting some thoughts out there)

        • Incrediho on 20/01/2015 - 01:23

          @eve:

          I don't think it's my place to suggest a specific pay rate - obviously in a largely free market system, they are paid what they can charge for services(although I don't think healthcare should be as free market as it is… but deviating off topic). I guess I would approach a median for the OECD West with similar GDP per capita, (ideally Scandinavian countries which I think are a role model for advanced society in general, but that would involve greater adjustment to everyone's rate of pay, not just doctors). These figures range greatly but would probably fall somewhere in the (net pre-tax) range of $125,000 - $150,000 a year on average for a GP.

          I fully recognize the physical and mental challenges. They are very bright students, who work their asses off, and face a difficult job (being around/responsible for the sick and dying all the time is no walk in the park). But to be accurate, doctors are earning good money from MD/MBBS 'graduation' (a few years longer than the median degree) - quickly escalating to near-fully qualified salaries in the GP stream (which I was commenting on specifically). Many will be able to pick up jobs with good hours (~9-5 Monday to Friday, less if they want to take a small pay cut), no on-call requirements or overnights and huge job security/flexibility (practice anywhere around Australia, and worldwide with relative ease) etc. Again, I was/am ONLY commenting on GPs.

          However I personally believe that people should become doctors first and foremost for the sake of helping patients. Yeah, that is an incredible demand I know (I'm no idealist, I recognize most people in most careers are driven by financial returns). No, that does not mean they should have to in any way struggle financially. In fact, I think they should be able to support themselves and a family in comfort. But not necessarily luxurious wealth. I wouldn't want a doctor who entered the field primarily for financial returns.

          Being a doctor is something special and it really needs to always be about patient care. Sometimes I think the compensation packages for many doctors in Australia reach the level where bright, high-achievers look at their options and say "Wow! Being a doctor really could bring home the bacon - maybe it's worth going this way over 'X' alternative", rather than "Wow, being able to have a career where I know I make a profound difference in my patients lives would be an incredible opportunity". By all accounts, Norwegian/Swedish doctors are excellent at their jobs and they get paid 1/2 - 1/3 of the median Australian GP (~$80,000-$100,000 a year). I highly doubt they entered the field for financial returns…

        • eve on 20/01/2015 - 04:12

          @Incrediho:

          This is mostly in jest when I say this with a bit of bluntness thrown in =p - it sounds like you think they are overpaid because doctors would ideally be the equivalent of monks going into a higher calling. I understand that =)

          I think most doctors would tell you not to do the job for the money because the financial compensation is not worth it as it is currently - see FiftyCal's comments from his GP dad.

          GPs, except for the shrewd business owner types perhaps, will never have a "luxurious" lifestyle of Porsches and $10m homes. Unless they are married to someone who earns luxurious wealth amounts or won the lotto. They earn a comfortable amount, and they will have a couple hours each night and maybe the weekend to enjoy it, if they arent doing referrals/paperwork/home visits/studying.

          End of uni to qualified GP is minimum of 5 years, more likely more than 7 years, plus exams. It's not that quick is it? How long does it take to go from a grad position to manager in the bhp or rio office?

          Rather than giving a number for "deserved earnings", what about a job "equivalent"? Who should they earn more than or less than?

          Can you please give the comparative earnings of Norwegian GPs to Norwegian medical specialists and Norwegian engineers etc?

          Wouldnt what the government pays a bulkbilling GPs through Medicare probably be about $80 000-100 000,maybe even less?? The rest of pay comes from the fact they are a private company trying to upkeep a clinic and its associated costs?

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