Help with a PayPal issue.

MelbBargainChaser77 on 02/02/2015 - 00:39

Hi OzBairgainers, Im in a bit of a pickle atm, I recently sold a gift card I had advertised on Gumtree. The buyer paid me into my paypal (Over $500) and has subsequently spent the gift card (I kept a copy of the gift card number and pin). I met up with the buyer at a petrol station, half an hour after he paid me into my paypal and gave him the gift card, he checked the balance and all all was good. 3 days after the transaction took place, the buyer has subsequently lodged an unauthorised transaction with paypal. Paylpal emailed me of this and told me this :

Recently, PayPal received a notification from a user regarding unauthorised access to his PayPal account. As a result, one of the payments credited to your PayPal account has been placed in a temporary hold while we investigate the claim. PayPal constantly monitors transactions for unauthorised use of accounts in order to maintain the safety of our users.

I had already withdrawn the payment into my bank account, and my paypal account now shows this balance as a negative on my account.

When I called paypal they told me Im not protected as it was a gift card, and they told me to go to the police.

I went to the police, and as far as they are concerned their is nothing to look at. I supplied the product and I was paid, end of story they said.

Why is paypal chasing me for this? Isnt the account holder responsible for transactions on their account? Why are they threatening to recover this money from me? Ive already handed over the gift card to the purchaser and its been spent.

I should have noted the number plate and ID of the buyer but stupidly I didnt. All I have is his phone number, and surprise surprise they arent now responding to me.

Does anyone have a similar experience? I refuse to pay back the amount. Can paypal take the funds from my linked bank account/ credit cards automatically or do I need to approve this action first? I dont understand why they arent telling the buyer action from their account is their responsibility, I didnt make them send me the money

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Comments

  • ilostnemo on 02/02/2015 - 01:04
    +2

    Paypal will screw your credit rating over the $500.00
    If you don't have seller protection you are screwed. Items which don't give seller/buyer protection should not be entertained by anyone. The person has found a loophole. The police won't be interested as it would be classed as a civil action.

    Even if you close the accounts linked to the paypal, they will chase you via a debt collector.

    • strangeloops66 on 02/02/2015 - 01:22
      +2

      There is no seller protection for Gumtree transactions in any case, is there?

      • strangeloops66 on 02/02/2015 - 13:35
        +4

        Apparently, there is seller protection for Gumtree transactions : see Schedule 1, S4.1, which includes a Gumtree transaction where there has been an unauthorised transaction. Unfortunately for OP, protection does not apply where the item sold is a quasi-cash item, such as a gift card (s5.1c).

        References are to the User Agreement for PayPal services.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 03:52
      +1

      WRONG. Paypal does not conduct Credit Checks and therefore does NOT have access to your credit file. They can not touch your credit rating unless they take you to court over $500 and get a judgement against you. The chances that they will take action over $500 is realistically not very high.

      • untg on 06/02/2015 - 10:13
        +3

        I would go by this, Paypal wouldn't be bothered to chase this, too much time/money to do it and if you have morally done what's right then I would close your paypal account, re-open another one and ignore them. They cannot turn it into a police matter when clearly the police aren't interested.

  • toniyellow on 02/02/2015 - 01:08
    +4

    The owner of the paypal account told Paypal the transaction was fraudulent. Either that is true, and their password was stolen, or it his account and he has made a false report, but at the moment you have no proof of that, that is why they will take it from you, and they won't listen otherwise. Paypal take the side of the buyer.

    Can you log into the gift card with the PIN and prove that it had a balance on the at the time you sold it e.g. prove you are not scammer that sold an empty gift card as he may be claiming? Does the petrol station have CCTV to prove the time and day you sold it, and perhaps get the number plate?

    You can report it here http://www.acorn.gov.au/ I doubt you will see anything from it unless he happens to be caught in the future, and they link him to your report. Even then he will likely go bankrupt before paying back all his victims.

    • MelbBargainChaser77 on 02/02/2015 - 01:18
      +2

      he is not claiming an empty gift card, he is claiming he didnt authorise the transaction to begin with…yet hes used the gift card. I can ask the servo for number plae footage, but I doubt theyll happily look for it..I can try

      • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 03:54
        +3

        It's possible that it was somebody elses' compromised Paypal account and the guy who got the gift card from you was not the holder of that Paypal account.

  • strangeloops66 on 02/02/2015 - 01:18
    +1

    Be patient. PayPal will take their sweet time and "investigate". They have no legitimate reason to debit your account and should reinstate your account at the end of the (long) day. Not that it matters, but did you have PayPal linked to the Gumtree ad?

    If sellers have this kind of experience with PayPal, it will undermine the trust they have in the system, which will only hurt PayPal.

    I think they can take funds from your linked account, but that could/should only happen if they conclude that you were involved in the supposed unauthorised transaction. If you are worried, link to another account with a nil balance.

    It appears the person you met at the petrol station was not the PayPal account holder. It may be possible to track this person down by PayPal contacting the gift card issuer and requesting a list of the transactions that were made using the card. If the person used his own funds (EFTPOS or credit card) as part payment, PayPal may be able to get a name.

    • MelbBargainChaser77 on 02/02/2015 - 01:22

      My pay pal wasnt showing on gumtree, I revealed this to him via sms. He told me is the sms he need to wait for his "missus" to deposit funds into her account then transfer to me. Th epay pal payment came from a female name. When I met them at the servo, there was a femaile but stayed in the car. I only saw and dealt with him

      • strangeloops66 on 02/02/2015 - 01:25

        Pure supposition, but this could be a domestic thing, with his separated partner complaining that he used her account. New partner may have been in the car.

        • cheng2008 on 05/02/2015 - 11:54
          +1

          Or they might've worked together to scam the OP. The woman removes a layer of responsibility.

      • mohan76 on 04/02/2015 - 20:12

        it's not wise to accept Paypal when item is picked up. you have no way to prove translation did happen.

    • MelbBargainChaser77 on 02/02/2015 - 01:25

      They have left a balance of $4.xx on the gift card

  • MelbBargainChaser77 on 02/02/2015 - 01:24
    -1

    Is it really that easy to scam someone with Paypal? Whats to stop me buying a gift card using paypal, spending it, then claiming its an unauthorised transaction? Wouldnt I be held responsible for transaction from my paypal??

    • JimmyF on 03/02/2015 - 12:38
      +3

      I don't take paypal for items being picked up. This 'problem' that the OP is having is all too common!

      Why would you take paypal rather than cash!?

      • plasmoske on 04/02/2015 - 17:32
        +2

        Exactly. Never take paypal on selling items in person.

        You can never prove that the item was actually "handed over" to the other people.

        Now with online, at least you got email/mail tracking and all that to back up your claims.

        But paypal can still (profanity) you over online.

      • noz on 05/02/2015 - 08:06
        +3

        I also agree about not accepting PayPal when selling an item to be picked up. The annoying thing is that on eBay even if you are selling a Pickup-only item you must still list PayPal as a payment method. And if you try to circumvent it by saying in the listing description that you cant' accept PayPal, then eBay will cancel your listing due to "must allow a safe payment method". This happened to me a few weeks ago. It's funny how they call it a safe payment method when it gives no security for the seller.

        • JimmyF on 06/02/2015 - 11:11

          Yeah ebay is crap like that, I still take paypal but clearly say "Payment on pickup only" in the listing….. When they email for the pickup details, I follow this up with a cash on pickup only reminder.

          I have had people paypal me before, can't read clearly. One I refunded and asked for cash on pickup. The other I didn't worry about, but printed out a form for them to sign on pickup saying they have accepted the goods and paid by paypal.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 09:26
        +1

        Because they can pay using credit card if they don't have cash.
        I believe PayPal is dodging their responsibility in this situation. If this happened with your credit card (that someone stole your details) the bank would cover it. They would not be chasing the seller.

        • JimmyF on 06/02/2015 - 11:12
          +2

          Not my problem. If you don't have the cash, then you're even more likely to screw me over with a paypal claim them!

          Go get a cash advance on your credit card (once again not my problem) or hey here is a thought, don't buy things you don't have money for!

        • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2015 - 22:47
          -1

          @Level380: You better just put big bold letters at the top of your adverts "CASH ONLY". Printing a form to say that they picked up and accepted the goods is meaningless, specially if the supposed buyer is using stolen details. Not all paypal buyers are scammers. How could Ebay work if Paypal was so dodgy. Ebay and Paypal would collapse. So this OP had some bad luck, but how many millions of transactions go smoothly each day. This OP is not posting about how to conduct analretentive transactions, the OP is seeking advice about defending this transaction against PayPal.

        • JimmyF on 07/02/2015 - 16:35
          +1

          @RustyStainless:
          I'm talking pickup. Go read on what the 'seller' and 'buyer' protection covers and how its 'activated' from both sides on paypal.

          I take a lot of paypal and its all I take for items I send, but for pickups, why do I want to hand a EXTRA 2-3% over to 'paypal' aka ebay on top of the 10% that ebay already takes causes buyers are too lazy to get cash.

          So to remind you (as you don't sound like a seller), if you sell a item for $100 on ebay, ebay charges you $10 and then if they pay via paypal, then paypal takes 2.4% + 30 cents.

          So out of that $100, ebay took $10 and paypal took $2.80! Yay Lets call it $13 dollars gone or 13%. I end up with $87 dollars for my $100 item!

          Ebay are scum, they charge fees on postage too, and so does paypal. So postage has to be inflated by 13% to cover those losses now, unless you can use ebay postage service (not for all items sadly)

      • waletmoro on 05/02/2015 - 20:31

        This is not helps at all.

    • what on 04/02/2015 - 20:18

      Scary isn't it. Unfortunately there are too many dishonest people around.

  • GnarlyKnuckles on 02/02/2015 - 01:27
    -2

    "Paypal will screw your credit rating over the $500.00"

    This is entirely possible.

    "Even if you close the accounts linked to the paypal, they will chase you via a debt collector."

    Somehow I doubt this. It's not PPs style to 'throw good money after bad', i.e. pay a debt collector to pursue money they are likely not to ever recover. They could 'sell the debt' outright to a debt collector, but again, it is not their style/not the sort of thing they want to be associated with, I suspect.

    "Can you log into the gift card with the PIN and prove that it had a balance [on it at the] time you sold it e.g. prove you are not scammer that sold an empty gift card as he may be claiming? Does the petrol station have CCTV to prove the time and day you sold it, and perhaps get the number plate?"

    This is excellent advice/smart thinking on both counts. Almost all petrol stations have operational CCTV these days (since the digital vid-cam revolution made it financially viable about a decade ago), to capture the number-plates of those who fill-up and drive off without paying.

    • dazweeja on 02/02/2015 - 12:07
      +1

      From PayPal's perspective, once they have reimbursed the legitimate PayPal account holder, they will have a member that owes them $500. They're a financial institution, they exist to make money, I doubt they'd countenance writing off a $500 debt without a concerted effort to recover the money. Do you really think they are just going to wear it? I doubt PayPal would have a policy of routinely reimbursing the account holder if it mean they were left holding the debt.

      These frauds would be happening many, many times every day across their network and PayPal are clear that the seller is wearing all of the risk.

      P.S. My opinion is that it's a very unfair policy. It means that in reality the seller is a victim of fraud but as he found out, the police won't help him because PayPal are in the middle and it would probably have to be them that reported the fraud.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 02/02/2015 - 20:13
        -1

        Tell me this then daz; how much do you think it would cost them to attempt to recover the $500? $200? $300? And still with no guarantee that these won't be simply more losses on top of the 500 clams they've already lost. This is why I don't think they will make a serious effort to recoup it, from anyone.

        "They're a financial institution, they exist to make money, I doubt they'd countenance writing off a $500 debt without a concerted effort to recover the money."

        I think you're wrong about this, because to them, $500 is a small amount, and trying to get it back may well cost them more than it gets them back.

        It's the same as how banks don't make any serious effort to recoup money fraudulently obtained via 'pay-waving' a stolen credit card. As long as the 'damage' is limited to about $1000 or less, it makes more economic sense for them to simply write it off, than it does for them to throw money at trying to get it back (i.e. assigning a member of staff to the 'case', dedicating admin' time to it, liasing with the cops, etc.).

        • Ughhh on 02/02/2015 - 20:29
          +2

          http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2113033

          Not sure what happened in the end, but I can imagine having debt collectors annoying you every now and then can be frustrating.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 09:30
          +3

          Paypal will "sell" a number of debts to a debt collecting firm who specialize in annoying people.

    • turkz1 on 04/02/2015 - 21:26
      +1

      can confirm that there are debt collectors.. bought an item from a shader seller and he opened an account with my address and racked up a $200 paypal bill which they chased me for a couple of years ago… when i was looking into it i read somewhere that they don't "throw good money after bad" to recover the debt but rather "sell" the debt for cents to the dollar to these debt collectors who then hound you day and night. it was a good 5 or 6 hours total on the phone and two weeks before i was able to clear my name.. when i call paypal they still ask about the fraudulent account every now and again… people please please please do not buy anything from (0) feedback sellers who are selling multiple items for cheap.

  • Ughhh on 02/02/2015 - 06:18
    +6

    Gumtree is for cash on pick up. Even if you sold him a phone, the same thing could have happened if paid via PayPal.

  • srhardy on 02/02/2015 - 07:59
    +5

    XI : thou shalt get cash for gumtree payment

    if you break the commandment then your in a world of hurt as scammers, lier's & idiots will try ANYTHING to avoid CASH

    • plasmoske on 04/02/2015 - 17:33

      Bitcoin works as well lol.

      Cash is king though.

    • turkz1 on 04/02/2015 - 21:27

      liars FTFY

  • RockyRaccoon on 02/02/2015 - 08:35
    +2

    I am a little late to the party, but reading the above.

    Why would someone pay for a gift card using paypal and do the transaction at a servo? The trouble to put the money into the account, then pick up the gift card when they could just give you the cash for the card. BTW how much did they buy the gift card for?

    Simple they know the way to scam people. It wasn't their paypal account which is the first thing you should have been wary of.

    Simple scam, their partner, mate, friend, drug buddy etc is in on the deal, but you can't directly prove that. The Paypal owner didn't contract with you to buy the product it was their partner etc

    Often when you buy on eBay sellers require the product to be shipped to the address "verified" by PayPal. Why? because this is a requirement for protection for you.

    Read this article from the Guardian a few years back

    http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jan/27/is-paypal-safe-…

    also good tips here (unfortunately too late for the OP)

    http://huestones.co.uk/node/282

  • rbrb on 02/02/2015 - 09:27
    +1

    I never take money on PayPal unless sold on eBay. I have been screwed so many times by PayPal for similar things. They are only interested in the buyer.
    Also, if you are meeting in person then why take PayPal in the first place?

  • Geewhizz on 02/02/2015 - 09:43

    It's a long shot, but I'd call Paypal and ask them to check whether the number you were contacting him on matches what they have on record.

    • strangeloops66 on 02/02/2015 - 09:58
      +2

      That's a Chris Kyle type of long shot!

    • Charity on 05/02/2015 - 10:17

      they wouldn't, and shouldn't, tell you.

      • Geewhizz on 10/02/2015 - 07:56

        No, but if the number you were using matched what they had, they'd know the account holder was lying.

  • heyeveryone on 02/02/2015 - 10:36

    Yeah, when i sell something on gumtree, i always make sure to make it cash on pickup. It's because there are loopholes that the buyer can use to get those funds back after running away with the product. For example paypal disputes or even bank cancellations can be processed so the transfer to your account can be stopped after receiving the product. THE BUYER ALWAYS WINS. That's the sad part. I hope everything goes well for you mate.

  • momov3 on 03/02/2015 - 01:00

    Which is why with Gumtree, you should not consent to allow PayPal payment. At least with EBay, you have another source of backup help. Gumtree leaves you high and dry. It should be cash, or direct deposit into bank, and only after the deposit is cleared then you post out to them. They cannot stop the funds once its cleared. If you allow credit card, that too can be stopped by a buyer whilst the transaction is pending. Always cash and direct bank deposit. Sadly, you did not make the buyer sign a receipt showing the date they got the gift card from you, otherwise you could prove with the 'spend' date and the balance, that they spent the card after they got from you.

  • plmko on 03/02/2015 - 02:10

    Yep you got 100% scammed, pretty typical trick. Since you've drawn the cash, just ignore Paypal and don't call them for help because they're only interested in getting paid from who they they don't care. They have no legal right to also automatically draw from your CC or bank account. If they threaten you with legal action, file a report to the Financial Ombudsman.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/02/2015 - 07:42
      +2

      Incorrect. Paypal do have the legal right. OP will have agreed to this in the T&Cs when signing up andaccepting Paypals User Agreement

      "12.3 If there are insufficient funds in your account to cover any money you owe us or our Related Bodies Corporate, these amounts become immediately due and payable. You authorise us to satisfy any monetary liability you owe us or our Related Bodies Corporate notified to you by:
      Debiting your account at a later date;
      Debiting your selected Payment Method;
      Setting off the credit balance of any account you have with us or any monetary liability we owe you in and towards satisfaction of your monetary liability to us; or
      Any other legal means."

      Unfortunately it's a crappy situation for OP.

      • plmko on 03/02/2015 - 14:38
        -2

        Yes I know, but thanks for pointing it out. T&C is one thing, but whether that is the correct thing Paypal should be doing is another issue. Which is why OP needs to keep the cash and file a report to the Financial Obudsman if Paypal does anything, because they aren't exercising the correct judgement.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/02/2015 - 17:01
          +1

          "whether that is the correct thing"
          "they aren't exercising the correct judgement"

          Who decides what is 'correct'?

          T&C aren't just 'one thing', they are legally binding, OP has accepted this and it is the only thing the Ombudsman will discuss. They won't consider a so called dennis denuto 'vibe' of the 'correctness' of the matter.

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 05/02/2015 - 20:15

          @zeggie:

          "T&C aren't just 'one thing', they are legally binding…"

          Actually TCs are not legally binding, if they contravene a consumer's legal entitlements. For example, if a business has as one of their TCs:
          "In purchasing this product, the buyer agrees to forego their consumer rights to a refund as defined in the Trade Practices Act", that is not a legally binding TC. Consumers are ALWAYS covered by the TPA (or whatever the new equivalent of it is now). Similarly, if a service provider, say a horse-riding joint or something has as one of their TCs on a disclaimer that riders sign "Riders ride at their own risk; we will not be held responsible for any injury that occurs, under any circumstances", this is also not a legally binding TC. If the business can be shown to have been negligent, they WILL be held responsible.

          So maybe what pinko is saying is that Paypal may be contravening some fundamental financial right that consumers may have; in which case the TC would be irrelevant; not legally binding.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/02/2015 - 21:38
          -1

          @GnarlyKnuckles:

          Cool story bro.

          Paypal isn't restraining some legal 'financial right' and there's no evidence of that.

          This isnt a family run laundromats dodgy TCs on their receipts, Paypal will have spent big dollars to have agreements and terms looked over.

        • boonanza on 06/02/2015 - 21:49

          @zeggie: The only problem is that Paypal is run from another country

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 06/02/2015 - 21:50
          +1

          @zeggie:
          Surely you jest? I can't be sure what you mean by "restraining" a financial right (putting the right in hand-cuffs maybe?), but I reckon you do in fact realise that many large multi-national companies have terms in their TCs that are unenforceable in some countries, because they breach the federal laws that apply in those countries (i.e. the local laws over-ride them). If you don't understand the concept, but would like to, I urge you to take an UDEMY law course covering such concepts. Then you too, will be able to construct and post "cool stories" that are actually factual/informative; rather than peddling amatuer fiction/ misinformed banter masquerading as fact.
          Learn up, "bro" :)

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/02/2015 - 21:54
          -2

          @boonanza:

          Incorrect.

          PayPal Australia Pty Limited (ABN 93 111 195 389) which holds Australian Financial Services Licence number 304962

          This also invalidates your argument Gnarly. And trust me, I have a vastly superior legal knowledge than yourself. Feel free to share any legislation that you feel Paypal have apparently breached and I'll be happy to continue the conversation.

        • boonanza on 06/02/2015 - 22:15

          @zeggie:
          You fool do you really think that transactions are made through paypal Australia:)

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/02/2015 - 05:12
          +1

          @boonanza:

          I believe what you are referring to is that Paypal Australia is a wholly owned foreign subsidiary. User agreements and licensing is in Australia and the TCs reflect Commonwealth law. They will have been designed to reflect our laws here. Incredibly unlikely they will have breached some regulation.

          No doubt Paypal Australia utilizes foreign systems in terms of transactions, just like any regular bank. No different than most of the retailers in your local shopping centre as well. I fail to see what your argument is.

        • boonanza on 07/02/2015 - 21:42
          +1

          @zeggie:
          Paypal are not a bank so why are you comparing them to one???

  • wayfastwhitie on 03/02/2015 - 07:57
    +1

    i have had a similar issue, almost identical. Long story short I dont believe there is anything you can do. Basically my take on paypal is as a buyer your 200% protected, as a seller they will screw you right up the ass. With my experiance I will now no longer sell anything online and accept paypal as a form of payment…I know this looks bad for me and that Im dodgy. But not been screwed over again.

    • strangeloops66 on 03/02/2015 - 10:10
      -4

      right up the ass

      Do you have a donkey? ;)

  • punter1 on 03/02/2015 - 08:11
    +2

    Only link your paypal a/c to ING Saving Maximiser a/c, which paypal can't withdraw money at all.

    • hashtagbargain on 04/02/2015 - 23:35
      +1

      That'd be a great idea, if it works… How is this possible?

      • punter1 on 05/02/2015 - 16:51
        +1

        Cause ING Maximiser a/c can only be credited by 3rd party, they can't direct debit.

        • hashtagbargain on 05/02/2015 - 18:17

          That's great, thanks for the input!

        • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 20:12
          +1

          @hashtagbargain: So is Ubank usaver. Can't be direct debited by third party.

        • hashtagbargain on 05/02/2015 - 21:52

          @wicket1120: How cool, I've got this one already so this should work very well.

    • Infraction on 06/02/2015 - 10:53

      I like the sound of this, so you have to manually transfer funds into paypal before each purchase but they can never draw from your bank account? Could it still affect your credit rating or leave you getting chased by debt collectors though?

  • dlakers3peat on 03/02/2015 - 08:14
    +4

    Of course there is something you can do. make a complaint with FOS http://www.fos.org.au. I had a similar situation in that customer had received a product. I received the money and then 1 month later they filed a dispute trying to get their money back. PayPal in their infinite wisdom refunded them without fully investigating the matter and tried to recover the money from me. It was well over $1000. Made a complaint with financial ombudsman and won. If that doesn't work and debt collectors come after you can explain the situation to them and say you do not owe any money because of (explain situation). If it doesn't work make another complaint with either FOS Or COSL. These financial institutions have to abide by code of practice and if you believe they have breached it complain.

  • anonymous01 on 03/02/2015 - 09:41
    +6

    Feel sorry for you mate. If he is not responding to his phone now, then obviously he made a false claim with paypal. One thing you can do to take revenge is to sign him up using his number for premium services and junk messages. You can even post his number here. You never know someone might even recognize his number and know who the person is ;). I am not sure about legality of it but if someone did this to me, I would be pissed.

    This story may help you:

    "A man ripped off by a Gumtree seller has sought his revenge by texting the fraudster the entire works of Shakespeare"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10706403/Man-text…

    It will not bring your money back, but it will make that person think twice before ripping someone else off.

    • tikei on 04/02/2015 - 00:00
      +5

      the scammer was probably using a prepaid number if they're out to scam

    • boonanza on 08/02/2015 - 19:49

      That's Gold:)

  • KingstonTheNotSoWise on 03/02/2015 - 11:45
    +1

    Just out of curiosity (I'm not entirely familiar with how gift cards work in this sense) can't you report the card as stolen? Are you able to track where it was spent or are you able to contact the people it was originally purchased from?

    • MelbBargainChaser77 on 03/02/2015 - 15:44

      Ive tracked where the card was spent..Ive even obtained a receipt of the purchase, and their is surveilance available also.

      • KingstonTheNotSoWise on 03/02/2015 - 16:10

        I hope you can use it some way. It really sucks at how simple a scam like this was to pull off.

  • EnALup on 03/02/2015 - 13:21
    +4

    Feel your pain mate. Rule for Gumtree or any selling site:
    1. Cash = Local pickup
    2. Paypal ——-> Always post to the same address registered in Paypal and never do pickup.

    I had a similar situation through ebay where buyer paid through Paypal, but wanted to pick up the same day as he was leaving for out of state. I said sorry it needs to be posted as I wont have any proof if he received the item. Within few hours, my paypal payment was taken back as he did it from his mother's account. As a backup I wrote an email to him that he is interested to pick up and wrote it in text as well in case of a Paypal dispute.

    So in your case, try printing your SMSs to the seller, your Gumtree ad and any other communication for the pickup and see what Paypal says. If the seller owns that Paypal account, it will be difficult for him to prove it unauthorised.

    Hope you get your money back.

    • plmko on 03/02/2015 - 14:19

      "2. Paypal ——-> Always post to the same address registered in Paypal and never do pickup."

      And you will be scammed again, the trick pulled on OP also works with Paypal and postage. Since the item we're talking about is a gift card, there is no protection. Even if the package was registered and you got a pay for the Auspost service for 'delivery card' with their signature on it.

      • EnALup on 03/02/2015 - 14:26

        Oh. Did not know that. But once the item is posted, how will buyer say it was unauthorised unless it was from a stolen account. In that case original buyer will have the item and will have to return it.

        I had a scam where someone bought something in China from my paypal account (Paypal did not give me details). Paypal investigated and found it unauthorised as it was done from a different geographic and IP address.

        Anyway, I have never sold Gift cards and will never do.

        • plmko on 03/02/2015 - 14:44

          "how will buyer say it was unauthorised unless it was from a stolen account. In that case original buyer will have the item and will have to return it."

          Simple, they don't. Firstly as it's a gift card there is no protection for the Buyer or Seller, but the onus is on the seller to prove they aren't a scammer by default. Since there's no protection, Paypal won't be bothered to start a refund/return decision. Then there's the unauthorised transaction part, Paypal will assume the buyer will do a CC chargeback, so Paypal won't bother fighting the CC company, they'll lose the cash from the buyer but will still seek payment from someone, that someone will be the seller.

          The scam works 100% because it plays on the incompetence of Paypal. In fact filing an unauthorised transaction dispute on Paypal only takes two mouse button clicks, 20 minutes of waiting and no evidence to submit for the buyer to get a refund, that's how automatic the process is for the scammer.

        • EnALup on 03/02/2015 - 15:13

          @plmko: Thanks mate. Getting scared of Paypal now. Any other items or scenarios we should take care of ?

          I once purchased xbox gold card from an ebay seller and he said he will registered post it from Meblourne. I wanted to use it after few months. But after 2 days he emailed the code and I had to activate it to verify its authenticity.
          Asked the seller and he simply said code should work and never replied why he did that. Raised a dispute advising Paypal about that to have partial refund for not having it posted and they closed it in seconds saying they cannot help for cards.

      • lousy on 07/02/2015 - 16:44

        No protection also means no protection for the buyer of said gift card. It's not the gift card that's the issue here, it's that the buyer claimed it was a fraudulent transaction altogether which he could have done for any item purchased on gumtree via PayPal…

        • plmko on 07/02/2015 - 17:13

          That's not the case, the gift card plays a pivotal role in the scam. If the scammer claims a 'fraudulent transaction' by default Paypal will reverse the transaction. You can however call Paypal and have them investigate it by their fraud centre (or whatever it's called), they'll send you another email which links to a new page that lets you submit custom evidence to them such as messages or delivery cards, this is possible because if the item is not a gift card you have seller protection. But because we're talking about gift cards, they just palm you off saying the item isn't covered by protection even if you submit any evidence.

          I know because this is exactly what I experienced.

  • wchau on 03/02/2015 - 16:52
    +25

    Let me tell you of my story..

    I sold a particular item on ebay - got payment through paypal and I delivered it to the person because his address was so close ( like 3-4km away ), I delivered it to the address that was registered with ebay , met up with the lady, she accepted it and I helped carry the item into her house.

    1 weeks later I had an email from Paypal regarding a unauthorised transaction.. cutting a long story short Paypal said basically said nope, they don't protect from local deliveries, even though I had the address and I had delivered it myself and got the persons signature .. they still proceeded to deduct the money from my account. I gave them the phone number, the address, signature everything proof that I was delivered.

    But they went in favour of the buyer ( fair enough this was a fraudulent use of credit card ) but they didn't help me recover my losses given it was a paypal transaction.

    Pissed off I said screw this, I went back to the house where I had delivered it, knocked on her door spoke to the lady (I won't mention what nationality she was ).. but , she stood there and Denied everything that had happened.Lied through her teeth about any delivery, no one leaving anything or helping her carry an item into her house, and she also damned signed for it too .. and now coming back saying she knows nothing.

    I repeated exactly what I did and when and she stood there and refused to acknowledge anything.I said look I just want my item back ok.. if theres any fraudulent activity here I don't give a shit, just give me my item back.

    She continued with sorry I don't know anything, she said to come back later in the day to speak to her husband.
    I said NO.. I want it now and then threatened her saying if I don't get it back now I'm calling the cops right now.

    She buckled and then said wait a minute and said let me call my husband.. I spoke to her husband on her phone and there was a really loud intense argument about it, he denied everything, he said he knew nothing that was delivered… he got edgy asking all sorts of questions about who I am, who I was with, how many people .. and finally after 10 minutes after mentioning about the police again , he then told me that something got delivered and left on the verandah and they didn't know who it was for or anything… BULLSHT .
    Asked me what colour it was, what it was.. he then told me to step back give the phone back to his wife other wise you won't get anything…

    So I did step back into the front yard from the verandah and waited .. the lady closed the door and 2 minutes later re-opened it and brought out my item dragging it across the ground cause it is something really heavy $400 worth.

    And thats how I got my item back.. I can't believe that lady, she just Lied, tried to cheat, steal refused to acknowledge anything right in my face after I had helped her carry it into her home.

    Paypal would not even investigate the address I gave them. They wouldn't investigate the phone number I gave them . They are USELESS, when something like this happens.

    Bottom line.

    1) Don't do pickups
    2) Dont' do local deliveries yourself even with getting it signed.. it has to be a third party courier with sign.
    3) Don't accept ebay addresses unless the address is the same as the paypal registered address
    4) Cash is King.

    They are the type, who can lie, cheat , steal , deceive, abuse and would never go into business with them ( I'm sorry but it is a certain race of and intimidating people )
    Everytime I think about it I do get angry but I'm happy that I realise that it didn't turn more ugly as it could have.

    I hope you find a a way to recover your losses my friend. Goodluck.

    • strangeloops66 on 03/02/2015 - 17:25

      You need a Scam Cam.

    • Chickenleg on 03/02/2015 - 19:46

      Wow… just wow. Amazing someone would do that especially if the seller knew where she lived.

      • wchau on 03/02/2015 - 21:17

        Just lucky I'm not part of a mob.. would have been a different story.

        • strangeloops66 on 04/02/2015 - 10:53
          -3

          "a mob" = a group of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people associated with a particular place or country.

          "the Mob" = equine heads in beds

        • wchau on 04/02/2015 - 11:16
          +2

          Not sure where your got the definition of a mob from strangeloops66, definitely not mine.

          From Google its

          mob
          mɒb/
          noun
          noun: mob; plural noun: mobs; noun: Mob; noun: the Mob

          1.
a large crowd of people, especially one that is disorderly and intent on causing trouble or violence.
"a mob of protesters"
synonyms:   crowd, horde, multitude, rabble, mass, body, throng; More
group, host, pack, press, crush, jam, gang, gathering, swarm, assemblage;
archaicrout
"troops were called in to disperse the mob"
    Britishinformal
    a group of people in the same place or with something in common.
    "he stood out from the rest of the mob with his silver hair and stacked shoes"
    synonyms:   group, set, crowd, lot, circle, coterie, in-crowd, clan, faction, pack, band, ring, fraternity, brotherhood, society, troop, company, team; More
    informalgang, bunch, lads;
    informalshower
    "don't you get any firearms training in your mob?"
    the ordinary people.
    noun: the mob
    "the age-old fear that the mob may organize to destroy the last vestiges of civilized life"
    synonyms:   the common people, the masses, the populace, the public, the multitude, the rank and file, the commonality, the commonalty, the third estate, the plebeians, the proletariat, the peasantry, the crowd; More
    the hoi polloi, the lower classes, the common herd, the rabble, the riff-raff, the canaille, the great unwashed, the dregs of society, the ragtag (and bobtail), the proles, the plebs
    "the mob, the dregs, were to be firmly excluded from political life"
2.
North American
the Mafia or a similar criminal organization.
"he gambled at a time when the Mob ran gaming"
3.
Australian/NZ
a flock or herd of animals.
"a mob of cattle"

          verb
          verb: mob; 3rd person present: mobs; past tense: mobbed; past participle: mobbed; gerund or present participle: mobbing

          1.
crowd round (someone) or into (a place) in an unruly way.
"he was mobbed by autograph hunters"
synonyms:   surround, swarm around, besiege, jostle; More
        • strangeloops66 on 04/02/2015 - 23:08
          -5

          @wchau:

          So, which one did you mean?

          I deliberately overlooked the most common meaning (large gathering of people) because of your use of the present tense "I'm not", which didn't make sense, since you are not presently at her house (or at least weren't at the time of posting your reply), and therefore unable to be assisted by that kind of mob.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/02/2015 - 08:40

      Jebus. Can I ask what area of Sydney this was in? How freaking bizarre.

      What nutjobs. Glad you got your item back!

      • wchau on 04/02/2015 - 11:10

        Guildford.

        • sulmar on 05/02/2015 - 01:19

          Guildford…. I think that itself answers the question about which race of people you are talking about.

        • strangeloops66 on 05/02/2015 - 01:43

          Home of the first KFC (then known as Kentucky Fried Chicken) in Australia.

        • Happy Bergin on 07/02/2015 - 08:10

          @strangeloops66:
          It's not right to talk about fried chicken in that way…

    • johnno07 on 04/02/2015 - 18:43

      Well done, wchau!

    • BartholemewH on 04/02/2015 - 19:33
      +2

      I am a car guy and would never normally condone this, but after they defrauded you and lied to your face about it, wait 12 weeks then cars keyed and mailbox smashed. Sometimes bad things happen to good people at random.

    • EnALup on 04/02/2015 - 20:49
      +1

      Mate, I wont ask which race these people from, but muppets and crooks are in every race and found every part of the world.
      Glad you stood your grounds and got your item back.

    • Wyzard on 05/02/2015 - 04:07
      -2

      Cool story 'bro'. However, racist undertones are not. There are good and bad wherever you go, no need to tar them all with one brush. FWIW I'm the same colour as you.

      • hayne on 05/02/2015 - 11:51
        +7

        How - so you can avoid do business with anyone of that particular race? Since every single person of that race will behave in the same way? Will that protect you from a scam?

        shakes head

        • Charity on 05/02/2015 - 11:58
          -7

          clearly folks agree with the "racist" commentator because he has +12 feedback (at the moment)

          so therefore, wouldn't it be important to know the race? As opposed to tap-dancing around the subject like morally-superior, politically-correct ninnys?

        • brazen00 on 05/02/2015 - 12:03
          +1

          @Son ofa Zombie:
          So how exactly will disclosing the race help others avoid a scam?

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