Need Help Planning a Trip to Europe. Where to Start??

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  Davo1111 on 01/04/2015 - 20:02

  wikivoyage, seat61.com for train advice, https://matrix.itasoftware.com/ for flights

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    kimba88 on 01/04/2015 - 20:31

    That wikivoyage site is quite good! Has everything in simple language! I really like this site!
    seat61.com confuses me a little.. but i think i just need to read more
    https://matrix.itasoftware.com is just like kayak as far as i can see, but quite a nice simple layout.
    Quite helpful! Thank you Davo1111! :-D

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  Brick Tamland on 01/04/2015 - 21:59

  Italy is really easy to travel by train. I spent 2 weeks in Italy and used the train exclusively. If you like hiking the Cinque Terre region is beautiful.

  When deciding which order to visit countries I looked up the air flights to find where it was cheapest to fly from and too. To me it would seem sensible to start off in England > France > Italy > Greek Islands…

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    kimba88 on 01/04/2015 - 22:04

    Thanks! I have heard their rail system is pretty good!

    Did you take into consideration the small internal flights, like a flight to malta? (I have no idea any other way i can get to malta)

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      Brick Tamland on 02/04/2015 - 10:43

      Some places can be a little more difficult, expensive or time consuming to get to. For me, when I travelled last year, also in the Sept period I crossed a few places off my list because they were hard to get to, such as Dubrovnik.

      skyscanner is a good website to find cheap european flights. http://www.skyscanner.com.au

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  retiredfeline on 01/04/2015 - 22:29

  Not only do you need to narrow down the list to make it feasible, but also you need to take into account the climate. Unfortunately August is high season so it will be very warm and crowded around the Mediterranean.

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    kimba88 on 01/04/2015 - 22:52

    I need warmth.. i'm a cold frog. You don't think visiting all those countries will be able to be done in the time period? I'm really not sure i can cut anymore from my list :-/

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      retiredfeline on 01/04/2015 - 23:08

      You're not the only one who will be seeking warmth, lots of northern Europeans will too. In fact it will be b***** hot in some places, look at the climate chart for Malta in August.

      You have about 5 weeks = ~35 days. Try to write down an itinerary involving the dozen or so places you want to visit and you may find yourself having only a day or two in some places after the travel is accounted for. Then iterate the itinerary until you have something feasible.

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        kimba88 on 02/04/2015 - 10:25

        Very true. I feel like most countries I'd like to spend 4-5 days each. It's the travel in between that I do worry about

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  toniyellow on 01/04/2015 - 23:24

  It takes half a day to a full day to travel between two countries by the time you check out of your hotel, get to the airport/train/ferry station, travel, make connections / clear customs if necessary, get to your next hotel, leave your luggage and are ready to see anything. You will be spending a quarter of your time and heaps of your money on transportation.

  The more travel you do, the more likely one of the flights, trains or ferries will be cancelled, having a domino effect on the rest of your trip.

  I would cut it down to England, France and Germany. They are close to each other. The arsenal game and Octoberfest are the only time of year sensitive things in your list. Everything else can be done at any time of year the next time you are in Europe. But if this year you can get annual leave during Octoberfest, concentrate on Germany

  Find out how to buy tickets to Octoberfest. They probably sell out early. Ditto for aresenal. Look at train timetables and figure out how much time it takes from a hotel door in munich to a hotel door in paris, paris to london etc. It will really make you want to cut down your list of countries.

  Watch an episode of the amazing race. That is what a holiday of those proportions would be. All airports and taxi cabs.

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    kimba88 on 02/04/2015 - 10:52

    Omg, a domino affect of canceled/delayed trips would be horrible. I guess I can't assume all things will go right. As I'm looking at having such a structured holiday, would it be best to book it all through a travel agent, as they can help when transport gets cancelled, etc?

    I feel like I want more of a holiday where I can take pretty pictures.. E.g. Mediterranean beachy pics. The thing I'm probably not understanding well is, how can tour companies take you through so many more countries than I actually want to see, in less time than what I have. I definitely don't want it all to be like the amazing race. How much extra time should I have in Europe to cover all countries comfortably then?

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      zappy32 on 02/04/2015 - 11:15

      A lot of those tour companies you will be on a bus for literally 30% of the time… You get to see a lot of different places but not much of each place! I think you need to cut down that list a bit depending on how much you want to spend and which places you want to see… I'm not sure of any tour companies that use plane or train travel except for single destinations.

      If you want to see a lot of different places then a bus tour is a good option but for more of a relaxing holiday you'd be better off booking the segments yourself.

      Perhaps give us an idea of what kind of budget you're on and what types of places other than beaches you want to see?

      EDIT: And with missing flights etc. if you get some decent travel insurance it should cover most of it. eg. If a missed flight will cause you to miss another travel booking they will cover the cost of another available price regardless of cost.

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        toniyellow on 02/04/2015 - 11:29

        Yes, if is the contiki type, they only cover that many countries when it is in Central Europe and they have a dedicated bus. Once you involve islands, it takes a lot more time. If you try and do Central Europe yourself, you are limited by public transport times and availability, and check in times of your hotel as to when and where you can leave your luggage. Tours do streamline that.

        A travel agent will help, and good travel insurance will reimburse you if things get cancelled, but it is still a huge pain, they can't manufacture an empty seat on the next plane, or an empty room in the hotel if the dates have to change, so it is up to chance. Something like Octoberfest I bet books out all the rooms in the city well in advance.

        So many of the countries you have listed you could spend a month in just seeing the sights. Watch some youtube videos to get a feel for how much there is to do. He's a bit dorky, but I like Rick Steves videos on Europe https://www.youtube.com/user/RickSteves

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        kimba88 on 02/04/2015 - 17:57

        @toniyellow: have you got any tips on what things I should definitely see in some of the countries I've listed? You might be able to somehow convince me to cut a country or two out. Lol

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  [Deactivated] on 02/04/2015 - 10:59

  +1

  I spent about the same amount of time travelling Europe in 2009. I started in London (where I had been working) > Paris > Barcelona > Rome > (flew in to Switzerland; train to) Innsbruck > Amsterdam > London (ret for NYE/flights home). I spent 4-5 days in each city (x6). I flew between countries with low cost carriers, and planned everything myself, no agent in-put.

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    kimba88 on 02/04/2015 - 17:56

    I guess it makes it easier when all the countries you visited are so close together. Wish I didn't feel so adventurous. Haha

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  OutOfComplaintForms on 02/04/2015 - 12:54

  +1

  In terms of logistics, I would do:

  Greece -> Malta -> Italy -> Croatia -> Austria -> United Kingdom -> France -> Germany (Austria -> Germany -> France -> United Kingdom would be shorter, but you said you wanted to end in Germany for Oktoberfest).

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    kimba88 on 02/04/2015 - 17:54

    How would you travel between countries on that route.. Plane, train or bus? I hope there is a way I can visit all these countries without feeling under the pump

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      OutOfComplaintForms on 02/04/2015 - 23:33

      Bus would be the cheapest, but I prefer a combination of trains and planes. Austria -> UK -> France -> Germany is relatively easy, but Malta and the Mediterranean will require some island hopping.

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  spacemansam on 02/04/2015 - 17:08

  I'm living London and travelling Europe ATM and wrote a blog about travelling Europe on the cheap, it may help you out

  http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/thepoonanns/2/1…

  I'm also heading to Oktoberfest this year and word of warning, accommodation is ridiculously expensive in Munich during this time. Most hostels dorm beds alone are starting at over AUD$100 per night, the cheapeat accom is a company that sets up tents for the festivities, not sure what their name is. Also if you are in a large group, you have to book a table, reservations open in April for most of the large tents but in a small group you could probably just rock up early and find your own table.

  Good luck! You'll have a blast!

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    kimba88 on 22/04/2015 - 21:29

    By the way, i really enjoyed reading your Europe travel blog!! Very handy tips! :-D

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  kimba88 on 02/04/2015 - 17:55

  Thanks, I'll definitely check it out. I'm thinking of maybe booking a tour for Oktoberfest.. Might be the best option anyway

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  altomic on 02/04/2015 - 22:29

  How about renting a car?

  I drove around europe in October for 3 weeks. loved the driving. autobahn!!! driving lets you go places faster and more conveniently.

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    kimba88 on 02/04/2015 - 23:22

    That is an idea I never thought of!

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      OutOfComplaintForms on 02/04/2015 - 23:37

      You could also take vehicles from certain countries via ferry as well. It can be a bit pricey though.

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        altomic on 03/04/2015 - 09:51

        +1

        I had mid size Peugeot which cost around $600 for 3 weeks. It used diesel. It was me, Mrs altomic and the 3 kids. So what we saved on train/bus tickets was huge. Plus we could, and often did, was see something and say "let's go there" . had we had more time we would have used more back roads to see more small towns etc. Once you arrive in a city you leave your car and mostly use the metros as they are mostly awesome,convenient band easy to use. We didn't use the car at all for the 5 days we were in Barcelona.

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        pauper on 08/06/2015 - 15:52

        @altomic:

        Altomic, I was just planning a trip with a similar idea in mind. If you don't mind could you give a rough idea on how much you ended up having to spend on parking and tolls?

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        altomic on 08/06/2015 - 20:24

        @pauper: parking - depends where you park. in Vienna i was spending 14 euro a day at a parking garage. but most other places I didn't have to pay.

        toll roads - cost varied. check out this site for an idea.

        but all in all it was worth it - i'd do it again.

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        pauper on 08/06/2015 - 21:27

        @altomic:
        Thanks Altomic… will check it out. Thanks for the encouragement, everyone i talk to is trying to discourage me from doing a driving holiday and advising trains.

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        altomic on 08/06/2015 - 21:43

        @pauper: the thing I loved about driving in Europe, and particularly France, was stopping at the roadhouses. the food was usually ok. but the cool thing was that the road house restaurants sold booze. most places had small barrels (20-50litres) of wine that you could fill a carafe up from. or choose a bottle of wine or beer to have with your meal. not that I drank and drove, nor endorse that sort of reckless behaviour, but for the fact that the choice for passengers was there and having booze whilst eating is a social norm and continues even in a "roadhouse".

        tip - don't buy fuel in italy , it's expensive - huge government subsidies.

        tip - the centre of older cities can be hellish to drive around in. n Vienna I spent an hour trying to find my apartment in the small street/alley of Schönlaterngasse

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        pauper on 10/06/2015 - 07:10

        @altomic:

        Great tips for a first timer again.

        I am planning to do it in October. Would you recommend leasing or renting? Also is snow tyres and snow chains required during this month and do the rental companies provide them? I am planning for around 3 weeks.

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  colin1 on 03/04/2015 - 09:44

  If you want to drive leasing is the way to go. Have a look here : http://www.citroendriveeurope.com.au

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  altomic on 03/04/2015 - 09:55

  Hvar, definitely go there. Beautiful and amazing island. Try to get to disco club max. Dubrovnik- look out for the hostel owned by Sado and Badima ,a great couple who rent rooms in the bottom floor of their house.

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  artfuldodger on 05/04/2015 - 12:06

  Fly into Athens
  Connect to Mykonos. Ferries to Santorini stopping wherever will depend on schedules. From Mykonos to Ios or Santorini will probably require the significantly more expensive hydrofoils, etc. You'll need to plan that well.

  Fly Santorini to London. Maybe see Arsenal. Eurostar to paris.
  Fly to Dubrovnik. Travel by Ferry to Hvar. Then, onto split.
  ferry from Split to Italy. Travel from there to Munich stopping in Austria along the way. Berlin if you have time but something will have to give so maybe Berlin is a little out of the way at this point.

  Alternatively, after Greece, fly to London and do a contiki (or whatever) tour which, if lucky, will coincide with the Bierfest. Mine did many years ago.

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    kimba88 on 10/04/2015 - 18:37

    Sounds like an ok plan, but i feel there would possibly be too much going back and forth with this one. So, so confusing on which country i may have to give up.. i'm hoping none :-(

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  Hansi on 06/04/2015 - 19:03

  As soon as dates are confirmed you have to book accommodation for Munich. Don't expect cheap prices in Munich. Try to avoid weekends if possible.
  Keep in mind that , in most aspects, Munich is the most expensive city in Germany.
  Berlin will offer much cheaper accommodation and everything else and you will have a blast, it is an awesome city.

  Reg Italy: I love the north: Venice, Bologna, Padova, Lago di Garda, Florence ( I liked it best out of all ). Trains are really cheap compared to other European countries.

  You can find cheap accommodation in London ( if you are alright with staying in a hostel ) and get around with the Oyster card.

  You can find many cheap flights between the destinations ( but make sure you check where the airports are since most low cost carriers are located in smaller towns further away from the big cities ) ( "Munich West" for example is 200km away from Munich, in a different state…

  Enjoy your trip!

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    kimba88 on 10/04/2015 - 18:42

    Nah, i wasn't expecting cheap prices in Munich.. i just hope it'll be a good time for the price. I think a tour is probably the best way to go in Munich so we're guarenteed a seat at oktoberfest.

    I've heard Berlin is amazing, so its probably not one country i want to leave out. It sounds very live-able there!

    I think in Ital we were recommended to see Rome, Venice and Florence. The rest will probably have to miss out as we'll run out of time.

    London, i'm probably not too keen on staying in a hostel. I do prefer 4 star accommodation minimum.. I've had too many dirty hotel experiences.. i'm sure i'll come across more in Europe! Is Europe's star rating the same as Aus? E.g. In Thailand, you can get 4 star accommodation that is better than a 5 star here in Aus, etc!

    I'm hoping our trip is planned so we don't have to catch too many small flights around :-P

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      Hansi on 11/04/2015 - 22:12

      You can compare the star rating to Australian standards. The further south you go, the more stars a hotel should have. If you are in France / Germany and stay at a 2* place it can be quiet pleasant, but personally, I wouldn't stay at a 2* / 3* place in Spain.

      As other people said before, make sure you don't visit attractions during the day ( rather later / earlier if possible ) to avoid queues.

      Landmarks can be visited at any time, so you only need to stick to opening hours for museums for example.

      One night I did a nice run through Rome for example. Whilst doing some sport you also get to see some really nice spots at night when it is not busy, in my eyes a win-win.

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      OutOfComplaintForms on 12/04/2015 - 15:41

      The general size of European hotels are smaller than South East Asia, and the breakfast spread isn't as varied either. The service can be a bit hit and miss as well. I tend to stay at the chains, e.g. Hilton, since there is generally more consistency.

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  kimba88 on 22/04/2015 - 21:21

  So we've been to a few travel agents just putting together ideas. We had one particular travel agent suggest that we start writing down on a calender where we want to be on certain dates. So we did. We made a few itinerary's, and also wrote down itinerary's that had been made for us by travel agents.

  In the end, we have narrowed it down to two itinerary's that we made ourselves.. and taking advice from others (e.g.attractions in Croatia, Greece, Malta tend to close just after summer ends).

  Itinerary 1:
  Leave Sydney 13th August and arrive in Dubai. Stay for two nights.
  Leave Dubai 15th and arrive in Malta. Stay 4 nights.
  Leave Malta 19th and arrive in Santorini. Stay 3 nights.
  Leave Santorini 22nd and arrive in Mykonos. Stay 3 nights
  Leave Mykonos 25th and arrive in Venice. Stay 2 nights
  Leave Venice 27th and arrive in Rome. Stay 4 nights.
  Leave Rome 31st and arrive in Dubrovnik for a 5 night Croatian sailing tour
  Leave Split 5th September and arrive in Paris. Stay 5 nights
  Leave Paris 10th and arrive in London. Stay 4 nights (possibly 5 nights)
  Leave London 14th and arrive in Berlin. Stay 3 nights (possibly 4 nights)
  Leave Berlin 17th and arrive in Innsbruck. Stay 2 nights (possibly not at all as we could do a day trip from Munich instead)
  Leave Innsbruck 19th and arrive in Munich. Stay Stay 4 nights.
  Leave Munich 23rd and arrive in Sydney 24th September

  This itinerary skipped Amsterdam and the Croatian sailing was a shorter trip seeing less islands.

  Itinerary 2:
  Leave Sydney 8th August and arrive in Dubai. Stay 2 nights.
  Leave Dubai 10th and arrive in Malta. Stay 4 nights.
  Leave Malta 14th and arrive in Split. Stay 1 nights in Split and continue to sail the Croatian islands for 7 nights.
  Finish sailing in Split 22nd and arrive in Venice. Stay 2 nights
  Leave Venice 24th and arrive in Rome. Stay 4 nights.
  Leave Rome 28th and arrive in Santorini. Stay 3 nights.
  Leave Santorini 31st and arrive in Mykonos. Stay 3 nights.
  Leave Mykonos 3rd September and arrive in London. Stay 4 nights
  Leave London 7th and arrive in Paris. Stay 4 nights.
  Leave Paris 11th and arrive in Amsterdam. Stay 2 nights.
  Leave Amsterdam 13th and arrive in Berlin. Stay 3 nights
  Leave Berlin 16th and arrive in Innsbruck. Stay 2 nights. (Or could skip this to spend 1 day longer in Berlin and London each - and we'll do a day tour from Munich to Innsbruck).
  Leave Innsbruck 18th and arrive in Munich. Stay 5 nights.
  Leave Munich 23rd and arrive in Sydney 24th September

  So what do you guys think? Too hectic or ok to handle? I've sent these to a travel agent for him to nit pick if he thinks he can justify it. Also i was getting him to price up flights, transfers and the sailing. I was going to research hotels myself and then tell him to book it maybe. Not sure. Any help is appreciated. Thanks for all that have contributed so far!! :-D

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    OutOfComplaintForms on 23/04/2015 - 03:14

    That does sound like quite a lot of places (not saying it isn't do-able). Is it all flights?

    Do you have an idea of what your budget is going to be?

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      kimba88 on 23/04/2015 - 08:11

      Train between Paris and London. Train between Venice and Rome. Train between Innsbruck and Munich. The rest will probably be flights

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        The Champagne Mile on 11/06/2015 - 15:09

        Bear in mind that both itineraries involve a lot of moving around - you will spend a lot of your time travelling to airports for flights! Personally, I'd probably look at cutting down the number of places you plan to visit, and staying longer in those places.

        EDIT: But your post was awhile ago, so you've probably booked everything in by now.

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        kimba88 on 11/06/2015 - 15:43

        @adelee: Yep, I have booked everything in now. I edited it slightly and went with this:
        Leave Sydney via plane 12th August and arrive in Dubai. Stay for two nights.
        Leave Dubai via plane 15th and arrive in Malta. Stay 4 nights.
        Leave Malta via plane 19th and arrive in Mykonos. Stay 3 nights.
        Leave Mykonos via ferry 22nd and arrive in Santorini. Stay 3 nights
        Leave Santorini via plane 25th and arrive in Venice. Stay 2 nights
        Leave Venice via train 27th and arrive in Rome. Stay 4 nights.
        Leave Rome via plane 31st and arrive in Dubrovnik for a 5 night Croatian sailing tour
        Leave Split via plane 5th September and arrive in Paris. Stay 5 nights
        Leave Paris via train 10th and arrive in London. Stay 4 nights
        Leave London via plane 14th and arrive in Berlin. Stay 4 nights
        Leave Berlin via plane 18th and arrive in Munich. Stay 5 nights
        Leave Munich via plane 23rd and arrive in Sydney 24th.

        We tried cutting down the itinerary, but couldn't much. I think we should have enough days in most places to experience what we need to. Probably better than doing a tour and only spending a day in each place :-)

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        altomic on 11/06/2015 - 19:42

        @kimba88: Split is a nice town. roman city in the middle.

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  rompastompa on 11/06/2015 - 15:10

  Start in Sydney o.O

  Old thread, just adding jest :D

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  kobrien456 on 01/07/2015 - 07:34

  Have you booked the Octoberfest tour? I'm curious to know who you went with.

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    kimba88 on 01/07/2015 - 11:22

    Are you meant to book a tour? I thought you could just rock up??

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      kobrien456 on 01/07/2015 - 11:25

      I thought you meant as part of a bigger tour that included 3 days or so at Oktoberfest.

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        kimba88 on 01/07/2015 - 11:41

        Nah I haven't booked any tour. Just plan on rocking up early and hoping to get a seat. The other days I'm there, i plan on going to Innsbruck, Austria and also visit a few castles around Munich.. So have no plans on drinking everyday for 5days.

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  jacken on 01/07/2015 - 12:24

  I love Paris that is beautyful city, you should go it first.