Call me paranoid- but after all of the Ukraine/Iraq/other unrest flying from Perth/Dubai/JFK, I'm looking for a better, safer way for my daughter & her friend to fly. I was thinking of having them fly Perth to Sydney>LA>JFK, but am concerned the time/layovers.
Can any of you well-travelled OB's help us out? The trip is end of Nov. this year.
Ta in advance!
Here's something you're probably not wanting to hear but NYC itself will be far more dangerous than any flight back…
WHAT???
Anyway if she can fly with Etihad and go Perth - Abu Dhabi - New York that would be the best. In Abu Dhabi airport you can now enter the US and clear customs there so she doesn't have to at JFK.
Going to Sydney first would be annoying and likely more expensive and you'd want to time it so they weren't sitting around the airport for hours.
E.g Flying Etihad
Depart 23rd Nov
Return 30th Nov
$1525
Origin: Perth Airport, Australia (PER)
15:55 Mon. 23 Nov 2015
Connection: Abu Dhabi Airport, UAE (AUH)
23:30 Mon. 23 Nov 2015
02:55 Tue. 24 Nov 2015
Destination: John F Kennedy Airport, USA (JFK)
08:40 Tue. 24 Nov 2015
Return flight details
Breaking Deals
Economy
Flight: EY100 | EY486
Origin: John F Kennedy Airport, USA (JFK)
21:55 Mon. 30 Nov 2015
Connection: Abu Dhabi Airport, UAE (AUH)
19:25 Tue. 01 Dec 2015
22:00 Tue. 01 Dec 2015
Destination: Perth Airport, Australia (PER)
13:40 Wed. 02 Dec 2015
Flying Qantas same dates via Sydney $2518
23:05
Perth
Duration: 4h 10m
06:15 Tue
Sydney
Stops: 0
11:50 Tue
Sydney
Duration: 21h 15m
17:05 Tue
New York (JFK) (JFK)
Stops: 1
18:35
New York (JFK) (JFK)
Duration: 23h 00m
09:35 Thu
Sydney
Stops: 1 QF18
18:35
New York (JFK) (JFK)
Duration: 23h 00m
09:35 Wed
Sydney
Stops: 1 QF18
13:40 Wed
Sydney
Duration: 5h 00m
15:40 Wed
Perth
Stops: 0 QF577
Total duration: 32h 05m
Rightfully so you are being a bit paranoid. But it really is quite safe.
tbh i think you're being paranoid. I'd rather spend the least amount of time in the air versus flying around the world the long way around.
Despite 2 high profile accidents last year (one of which was the flight downed over Ukraine), 2014 was actually the safest year on record, with 1 fatal passenger flight accident per 4,125,000 flights:
http://news.aviation-safety.net/2015/01/01/despite-high-prof…
Here's the route Emirates flies from DXB to JFK - They fly over Iran, Armenia, Georgia, Russia, Finland and do not touch Iraq or Ukraine:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE207/history/20150531/1…
Your fear is understandable but irrational.
Don't put your daughter and her friend through unnecessary extra flight and airport waiting times on what is already a long flight.
Let them take the shortest route.
Hawaiian airlines is another one you can consider
layover would be bad, however u can consider stopping at hawaii
its pretty nice there!
no direct flights from perth though, need to be in sydney or brisbane
also with hawaiian u get 2 luggages each of 32 kilos
but when you fly from syd-perth you wont have that much (something to consider!)
Consider the risks of DVT from an extended flight if that makes it easier to rationalise the shorter flight time of a more direct route.
you're paranoid. have some faith. your daughter is more likely to die on the way to the airport than anything else. i'm flying with malaysian airlines this arvo for part of my trip, i'll let you know if i'm not dead.
i'd probably look at air nz or virgin for the flights
definitely paranoid ;) in saying that i'd never considered that perth to new york would actually fly the other direction (good on me being a closed-minded melbournite!)
in saying that, the raw distance comes out in favour (ever so slightly) of heading east rather than west, however PER-DXB-JFK is probably a better option in terms of having a nicer airport to stop in, and only 1 layover.
if it helps with the paranoia, the amount of flights that travel that part of the world are staggering, you've got to be seriously unlucky to be shot down on a commuter plane… also the flight across the atlantic is significantly shorter than the flight across the pacific, there's a lot more airports to land in if there's problems with a plane (that part probably not helping paranoia!)
onto practical solutions - air new zealand have had some great specials lately and you could quite easily do a Perth -> auckland -> los angeles -> new york itinerary which would break up the trip at some fairly regular intervals (great for a break) and also gives the opportunity to stop and visit los angeles (and auckland if you're so inclined, though it's probably not as exciting as new york…)
qantas would do a perth - sydney - dallas/los angeles/sanfran - new york, as would a lot of other carriers.
They're not planning on following U2 around Europe are they?
I agree with what people have said above, they are extremely unlikely to have an accident.
My first question is what are two young girls doing travelling overseas by themselves???
I'm gonna have a stab in the dark and assume it is a end of year 12 trip?
Young teen girls? I'd assume 13-15 from that description.
They're probably 30, but helicopter mum ;)
Thanks for all of your replies & insights. The girls are 16 & 17. I'm fine to be labelled "paranoid"— seems better than ignoring recent events or pretending there's not a thing to worry about. A lot of it is that my daughter's US relatives have been far more concerned at their level of convenience (as far as ease for them to pick up the girls in the location of their choosing) vs. no consideration at all about their safety. This is not only the flight, but in general. So, I'm using this platform as a sort of "sounding board".
And I do understand statistically that, because you're in a car more than a plane, your odds are higher to be injured/killed in a car accident. However, plane crashes usually result in dead, not injured- hence my hesitation. There's that + the step-up in things like airspace retaliation/"accidental" planes shot down, or "lost", etc. Or, that's how it seems.
In everyday life, I don't oversee or "hover". My daughter goes off on her own with friends by rail, to parties, to concerts, frequently. But in these situations, I or her older brother are only an hour or so away should there be any trouble. These aren't "worldly" girls, either. My daughter has travelled (accompanied by me or her brother) but her friend hasn't. These are my considerations.
I'm not trying to put them through longer flights- just safer airspace. I do appreciate the feedback. I see *Perth>Hong Kong>JFK…not sure if that is better/worse/same as Dubai?
*Cathay Pacific (vs. Emirates)
TA. :)
It's completely irrational to worry about "safer airspace" due to the single incident with Malaysia Airlines over Ukraine last year.
As mentioned in the other reply, for example Emirates flies DXB to JFK over Iran, Armenia, Georgia, Russia, Finland.
There is no war or fighting going on (with anti-aircaft weapons or otherwise) in any of those countries.
Even if there were, the chances of a large civilian plane being shot down are astronomically small. This has happened a handful times in history, out of hundreds of millions of flights.
Your worry is an overreaction and is not justified by any facts.
Air NZ just started Auckland to South America, flights from there to NY should be plentiful.
As you're concerned about the plane being shot down or lost, the best solution might be a cruise. Having a look, you should be able to do Perth to Hong Kong, then a second cruise to New York. Total price is about $17,000 each, I think.
Wouldn't I love that! If I had those funds, you bet I would! Unfortunately, this trip is being arranged by her "pleads-poverty" father (worth well over 1M). The best I can do is arrange the safest & best route.
Can I get an idea, from those learned OB'ers here who travel economy often, a 1st/2nd/3rd best airline opinion? Preferrably those who still refuse to fly over Ukraine airspace. I'm sure this thread will help may others, too.
Thanks so much for all of your comments. :)
I flew in March Perth to NYC by Cathay Pacific.
Went via HK. Was the shortest flight too, and cheapeast. Do some expedia/kayak searches and see if it still is. it was 7-8 hrs from memory to HK, and naother 16 hr flight or so to NYC from HK after a quick 1 or 2 hr stop over.
Fastest flight as total was around 24 hrs from start to finish, versus longer alternatives.
Cathay is also considered quite safe.
So, Cathay does not fly over the war-torn Ukraine & has a good safety record?
Thank you- truly…
SaberX didn't say that at all.
I sometimes have to wonder. Truly. Are people so snug in their resistance to death/dangerous situations that they don't see danger in front of them? I don't mean crazy stuff- but real deaths & hostages.
Now, imagine sending your sweet, wonderful daughter & her equally wonderful girlfriend across the globe. Are you really okay with that?
I cannot be the only one here who is concerned?
Ta.
I personally think you are slightly overreacting if you are concerned because of what happened in Ukraine with the Malaysian Airline. It was a tragedy, a war crime. That being said, the chance of it happening again, as far as I see, are very very small. It's forbidden to attack civil airliner under any circumstances after what happened with KAL-007 during the Cold War. The ramnification to Chicago Convention that followed KAL-007 incident (which forbids any attacks on Civil airliner), was signed by all the countries that you are concerned with.
Although the yanks shot down IR 655 five years later but for the most part shooting down airliners isn't a popular manoeuvre for any side during war.
I frankly think it's ridiculous, they didn't even have any AWACS in that area or something similar?
It turns out that Cathay Pacific does have a good safety record as well as avoids the Ukraine area (& has for some time). Still, I like to hear from actual flyers on their own experiences just so I have a better idea of how much is hype vs. reality.
Thanks again everyone.
Yep and due to geography and Hong Kong being on the other side of the world than Ukraine it shouldn't go anywhere near. Cathay Pacific is a nice enough airline to be flying on as well - not as new and comfortable as Emirates but still good.
I did actually think there was some flights via Japan as well but doesn't appear there's any direct flights to NYC any more.
Honestly though, the flight is really the safest part of travelling overseas or at home. If you're choosing a reputable airline(any that's allowed to fly to Australia), then it just isn't worth your worrying.
They are more likely to die on the trip to the airport … fact.
Stop worrying.
To everyone who's replied.
Yes, I know all of the "facts" about air-safety. But the fact is that you're thousands of meters in the air.
Yes, I know the odds are less for planes than cars (due to numbers of cars/time in cars vs. planes).
The issue is my child is thousands of km away from home if anything bad happens. I am thousands of miles away in response.
I want the best possible safety I can arrange, that's all.
Nothing will stop my worry, because I love my kids immensely. But thank you to those who were encouraging to "not worry", I know that you are trying help.
Cheers
Why are you letting them go to another country by themselves then? There were 639 violent crimes in New York last year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City. How are you going to protect them against that?
Completely irrational.
I literally got mugged in the USA. Empty your pockets or I will shoot you he said.
I am happy to fly Malaysia Airlines or even Air Koyo. But now I am scared of walking in dangerous neighborhoods of USA. The USA's homicide rate is among worst in the developed world, even worse than Ukraine.
By comparison, Hong Kong is even safer than Australia.
I have just returned from New York today, in fact I was on the same flight as Richard Gere flying into Sydney. I flew Sydney Los Angeles New York, and it's a long way. I would not take a longer route, because I think it would be unnecessary. I minimise the connections, that for me would be vital.
I found New York very safe as there are many people around. And of all the places I went in the US, New York was the most friendly, and Americans in general are very polite and very friendly. The public transport system is very good. And I would assume that at night your daughters would be in the company of a more mature responsible adult.
I've decided, with the daughter's-friends-parents, to go Cathay- Perth-HK-JFK. Emirates wanted $4000 for the same flight as Cathay at $1675!
I again thank those who responded with ideas, comments, alternatives, etc.
Ta!
Here's something you're probably not wanting to hear but NYC itself will be far more dangerous than any flight back… And NYC is relatively safe by US standards.
The ease of the flight via Dubai/Abu Dhabi from Perth would be a large trade off with having to go over the whole of the US/Pacific Ocean and Australia.
Having said that, if you still are looking to avoid flying over the Middle East/Ukraine my suggestion would be Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong. It's a reputable airline and an easy layover/connection in Hong Kong and only 27 hours total. I'd try and avoid LAX at all costs as it's a pain to transfer in unless you're taking the Qantas flight and you're probably still looking at around 35 hours with two stops.