Property Contract Signed by Dad, on behalf of adult Son. Valid?

[Deactivated] on 16/09/2015 - 19:52

Recently my dad's rushed to buy an off-the-plan unit. He wanted to buy it on behalf of me (first home buyer).

I wasn't around when all this happened:

  • I gave him my Drivers' licence for the registration, and he gave the contract security deposit (Note: this is not the 10%)… roughly $2000, to the agent. The agent knew about the circumstance - that he was speaking on behalf of me.

  • The agent also got him to sign the security contract as me, under my name; I did not permit any signatures (word to word).

  • Note that there's no written evidence, that my dad was speaking on behalf of me; everything was word to mouth.

Problem

Now, he (we) want to back out of this, but the cooling off period has ended.

  • The agent is like, "No, you must go ahead with this now; you (dad) have signed!"

Issues

  • The contract (under my name) was meant to be signed by me, not my dad. The agent has accepted my dad's signature as mine (with knowledge… though this can't be proven, as it was word to word only).

  • Now, the agent now wants MY signature, to replace my dad's. I'm guessing that they want to make the contract 'proper', with the right signator's signatures.

  • I don't want to sign this…

  • DO I have to sign this? What will be the penalties? (THe agent mentioned suing) SHould there even be penalties?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • toristo on 16/09/2015 - 20:17

    What are the contract terms?
    Normally if you don't pay the rest of the deposit, you'd lose your $2k (which may be still a good option if you don't want to buy the property)

    • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2015 - 21:16

      The cooling off period has ended.

      We either pay the deposit, or go to court it seems.

  • RobMel on 16/09/2015 - 20:19
    +7

    Hi,

    Suggest you speak to a lawyer ASAP.
    Consider the contract MAY be invalid as the signature is not valid.
    However your dad MAY also be sued for fraud for impersonating you.

    These are just some thoughts.
    DEFINITELY talk to a competent lawyer.
    This is a legal and financial minefield.

    Cheers

  • mskeggs on 16/09/2015 - 20:33
    +3

    You are looking at this backwards. Your risk here is about fraud.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2015 - 21:13

      I understand that fraud has been committed.

      But also, the agent has accepted this contract with the knowledge that this signator is not me.

      (How would they know? - If they had looked at the Drivers License photo, they would know that the signator is not my dad. They needed to see the Drivers License for this contract to proceed.)

      …So yes, fraud… but they've knowingly accepted it too.

  • Settero on 16/09/2015 - 20:50

    you don't have to sign anything.
    yes there will be penalties.
    yes there should be penalties.

    situation 1 , your dad was acting as a agent for you, the contract is valid.
    situation 2, you deny you gave your father permission, they go after your father for the rest/fraud.

    i think this would be looked at as your father being your agent , unless you deny it , then many issues can occur.

  • Randxyz123 on 16/09/2015 - 20:59

    Well you did sign it. Are you really going to stand up in court and say your dad stole your drivers license and signed on your behalf.

    It is perfectly valid for your dad to sign on behalf of you but the agent really should've got it in writing.

    The way I see it is that if loose $2000 it is better than having to pay the rest of the deposit.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2015 - 21:14

      THe issue is that they are forcing us to pay the rest of the deposit, since the cooling off period has ended.

      (I didn't sign it, my dad did. No, I didn't give any consent in writing (nor any consent, at all)).

      • Randxyz123 on 16/09/2015 - 21:48

        (I didn't sign it, my dad did. No, I didn't give any consent in writing (nor any consent, at all)).

        Except you did. You gave him your drivers license and told him to basically act on behalf of you. He is a idiot for not getting you to sign something saying that but I guess he trusted his son.

        I'm no judge but the questions in a court room would be pretty clear. Did you or did you not tell your dad to sign for you?

        Getting him to act as a agent/proxy i.e sign for you is fine as far as I know. They took your Driver's License as the contract was to be under your name.

        Having him sign your name sounds a little weird I would think he would sign his name and then write on behalf of your name.

        You said it yourself you wanted to secure the place so he did now you want out.

        This sounds like a complete legal mess.

      • Geewhizz on 17/09/2015 - 06:14

        (I didn't sign it, my dad did. No, I didn't give any consent in writing (nor any consent, at all)).

        The person who was acting as your authorised agent did. Could be end of story, but

        The agent also got him to sign the security contract as me, under my name; I did not permit any signatures (word to word).

        Unless your dad had felt like he was being coerced into signing it. You say you did not permit any signatures. Did you specifically tell him NOT to sign anything? If not then you're back to 'end of story.'

        You really should be seeking legal advice at this point.

  • subywagon on 16/09/2015 - 21:07
    +1

    I'm calling the police.

  • shaybisc on 16/09/2015 - 21:07

    What was your intention in giving your father your driver's licence?

    Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it. I bet you'd be throwing a tantrum if you had decided to go ahead and the agent said he'd sold the unit.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2015 - 21:15

      He needed it get it secured… but signed it under my name.

      THat is the issue for me - signing it under my name… and then the agent accepting that.

  • KaTst3R on 16/09/2015 - 21:50

    Isn't the security deposit there for people who are still considering ? As long you have not signed the main contact which includes all the council floor plan, land division plan, and all the technical blue print you are fine. Because when u sign that one, you need to give a bank cheque of 10%.

    The agent may be trying to get you to sign so he can get his commission. If you back out, the 2k goes to the developer and he gets nothing.

  • jaypehm on 16/09/2015 - 22:24
    +1

    (1) Strictly speaking, you do not need anything in writing for Person X to act as Person Y's agent. As an evidential matter/matter of proof, people commonly do. Here is a prime example: someone from the electricity company knocks on your door and wants to sign up with her/his company. However, the company does not issue that salesperson with anything in writing stating that s/he is an employee from the company and is authorised to pitch to you about electricity plans (even though the company might). In any event, people do not usually hand their driver's licence off to someone else in the ordinary course of events - the tribunal/court will draw an inference as to the fact your dad had your driver's licence. It will be safe to assume that the agent probably made a copy of your driver's licence during the signing.

    (2) As someone said above, there are only 2 outcomes from what you are trying to say, if I get you correctly:

    (a) You did not authorise your dad to enter into the contract on your behalf. Skip to end result. You go free (from contractual liability), your dad gets thrown under the bus for misrepresentation/fraud in one form or another. You get the gist.

    (b) You did authorise your dad to enter into the contract on your behalf. Your dad entered into the contract. Nuff said.

    (3) In response to your specific question, you do not have to sign the contract that the agent now wants you to sign because it is not a matter of making it "proper". The fact of the matter is that there is a contract that is signed, albeit by your dad. Which brings us back to square 1.

    Note: I am just very generally and broadly laying out the facts for you from a third party's POV. As with these things, a lot (if not everything) hinges on the specifics and nitty gritty details. Do consult a lawyer for legal advice - some of them have a free initial consult, if that is something that appeals to you.

  • mick123 on 16/09/2015 - 22:51

    You can try to sell the unit off the plan too.. Might even make money on it depending on when you bought it.

    You gave your dad consent, whether in writing or not, or legally or not, so what you are trying to do is fairly immoral.
    What if the seller/developer turned around tomorrow and said to you, we sold it to you for $350K a few months back but now I want to withdraw it as I have found a buyer for $450K. Would you accept that?

  • chumlee on 17/09/2015 - 07:11
    +2

    Both your dad and the real estate agent have conspired to commit fraud by signing a binding contract in another persons name.

    Unless you give your dad power of attorney then he has no legal standing to sign on your behalf. What he should have done was sign it as himself and have the contract contain "and/or nominee" so that he could change the name before settlement occurs.

  • fruit on 17/09/2015 - 07:13

    Honestly see a lawyer as your case will have more details than you specify here. People are throwing around the word fraud, but that might not be the case.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2015 - 07:58

    I am a lawyer and no, contract is not valid

  • Dumax on 17/09/2015 - 12:26

    Think of it this way, if the agent had a leg to stand on they wouldn't be trying to get your actual signature.

  • modsec802 on 17/09/2015 - 21:35

    Sounds like your dad was committing first home buyer fraud by trying to impersonate you or get you to buy on his behalf which is illegal and a rort on taxpayers money.
    Beware: there are very harsh penalties for this.
    Good luck in court.

  • 3dprintingguy on 17/09/2015 - 23:18
    +1

    Did your dad sign the contract on behalf of you as a nominee?
    the obligations of the contract will be with your father until he nominates you to take over

    get a lawyer, search for one on ozbargain if you are looking for a deal =P

  • SaberX on 18/09/2015 - 01:26

    Something so serious… Seriously get off ozbargain and see a property lawyer or the like. Find a good one and ask the contractual question and your options. The law isnt forgiving of discrepancies and won't care if you took advice from someone here and it backfired.

    It's off topic but it sounds like you had intention to purchase. Otherwise you really need to ensure something like this doesn't happen again i.e. you shouldnt be rushing and signing anything off the plan if your not sure. Run it through the terms with a lawyer.

  • Traveller107 on 18/09/2015 - 11:59

    IMO the contract should not be valid in this case. Even for your father to sign on your behalf as an authorized representative he would have to be given the authority by you first. Such authorities are always in a written form. So unless you gave written consent and allowed your father to be your authorized representative for the purpose of sale/purchase in the form of a power of attorney OR the state approved legally acceptable contract, the deal would be invalid.

    For instance when it comes to property auctions and people have buyers agent or relatives bid on their behalf, a proper written documentation with signature of all parties along with ID proofs need to be submitted to make such an arrangement valid.

    The agent knows its an invalid deal and that he will eventually need to return the deposit to you, therefore he is pressuring you into signing a valid deal. I doubt he would want you to take him to court as insinuating that your father committed a scam would also get him into trouble for facilitating a fraud deal and he would lose his license and pay penalties. He has a lot to lose. I'm sure a few strong words or threat to pursue it in court would do the trick. Maybe get a solicitor to write down a letter for you to make it look more official(shouldn't cost more than a couple of hundred dollars).

    I am not a lawyer and this post does not constitute legal advice. For any legal advice please seek help from a registered legal professional

    • whooah1979 on 18/09/2015 - 12:11

      Op has posted on Australia's most popular and public bargain site, stating that op gave his father his Dl for the purpose of registering to buy an off-the-unit. It reads like op gave consent.

      • Traveller107 on 18/09/2015 - 12:13

        An ID can be acquired in many wrongful ways. That is why legal documents exist that need to be signed in the presence of witnesses on legally drafted contracts.

        • whooah1979 on 18/09/2015 - 12:18

          That is right. Did op's then take the Dl with or without consent? Op's post says yes.

      • chumlee on 18/09/2015 - 17:18
        +1

        Just because OP gave his father his drivers licence doesn't mean he gave legal consent. A power of attorney or some similar agreement needed to be signed between the OP and his father for OP to waive his consent to reading the terms and conditions of the contract and his father signing. Your rights cannot be waived just because you gave your dad your drivers licence.

  • Traveller107 on 18/09/2015 - 12:27

    Just because someone wants to acquire something does not mean they will get it. There are procedures set in place with strict requirements that need to be fulfilled before that procedure can be considered valid. It is a basic requirement for an authorized representative in the property and financial sectors to at least have a basic power of attorney or the states authorized representation document signed and completed in front of witnessed with proper identification of each party provided before they can represent somebody in a deal. Property purchase contracts are not binding on verbal assurances!

    For instance, providing CBA your ID for a loan and having a relative sign off on documents in your name wouldn't be a valid contract without signing off on a guarantor or power of attorney documentation depending on the particular scenario. This document will be drafted in line with legal requirements and have the details of the buyer, the authorized representatives, guarantors, sellers and their liabilities and responsibilities. The loan will not pass without such documentation no matter how many IDs are thrown at CBAs doorstep with verbal assurance. There is a reason legal contracts are so important. If everything relied on verbal promises barely anyone would be held liable for unlawful conduct and breach of contracts.

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