Speeding Ticket From Patrol Car

lordra on 13/12/2015 - 18:18
Last edited 16/12/2015 - 00:24

Hello Ozbargainers!

As an ozbargainer, every $5 is counted and really thought about. This morning, I was going places at 0730hrs, moving from a 80kmph zone to a 60kmph when a police car went past in the opposite direction. A couple of minutes later I was pulled up and handed a ticket for going at 70kmph.

Site description.

0725 - Currently in 80 km zone.

0725 – approaching 60kmph zone & traffic lights that are on green. It’s a double lane at the traffic lights. When one proceeds forwards, there is a steep decline & the double lane joins to form a single lane. Ute in the left right, me in the right lane. The left lane merges with the right lane to form a single lane at the base of the decline. This is about 100meters.

0726 – enter 60kmph zone, slow down, not watching the speedo. The ute and I are going head to head as we go thru the lights & start the decline. I’m not sure if there was someone behind me, there could have been, I don’t remember. He speeds up & decides he wants to get ahead of me & at the same time, focusing on my lane, I’ve already sped up as I don’t want him to be next to be when the lane forms a single lane. Plus, There’s the danger of the car behind me. And the decline makes it easier to accelerate rather than to brake. The cop car is in the opposite lane & takes the liberty to use his rail gun & has a go, clocks me & I’m totally unaware of any of this.

0727 – The ute follows in behind me, we are now in the single lane, I’ve caught up with the traffic in front of me, & I glance at my speedo & I’m a little under 60kmph.

0730 – I see the flashing lights, get pulled over, handed the ticket & I leave. He told me that since this was a first, I could ask for the 10-year caution pardon. Which I cannot as I am from England & have converted my license.

As a driver, I know I am obligated to follow the speed limit. This is the first time I’ve been handed a speeding ticket. Would it help to ask the officer for his calibration records? Can I ask for all the evidence held against me? Can I contest this in court? Are there any grounds on which I can say I was not speeding intentionally?
I have had a look at all the sdro sites. I am quite keen on the section 10. I don’t want this on my history. As a Pom in Oz, I need to keep a squeaky clean record & something as silly as this is very shameful for me, personally, as I am quite proud to say that I’m the only moron doing 100kmph in a 100kmph zone while everyone else is zooming past at about 110-120. Fuel efficiency you see. :)

My financial situation isn’t the best & I’ve only just got me a part time job, haven’t received a paycheck since April, been living off savings & other people’s kindness. This fine would be detrimental to my financial status as well; is that something that can be considered if all fails? I’m willing to borrow to fight it off & make sure I go squeaky clean; this whole thing is just a farce!

I am looking for either of these two outcomes:

Caution or Cancellation

Edit : thank you to everyone for the feedback. I have decided to write in and ask for a caution. If that doesn't work, I'll pay it.

Poll Options expired

  • 3
    Reduce it to 5 years
  • 6
    Reduce the once in 10 year caution period to follow Vic's of 2 years
  • 8
    Keep the once in 10 year caution period
Automotive

closed Comments

  • sraymond on 13/12/2015 - 18:29
    +36

    You're not gonna get much love here.

    • Turd on 15/12/2015 - 11:14
      +1

      OP Took a picture with a point and shoot camera whilst at the lights.. Good work mate

      Metal fence. Pov of the Cop http://imgur.com/5YzEf3x

  • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2015 - 18:30
    +23

    Wow. Let me call Judge Judy.

    But let me tell you, your last paragraph there gives no defences whatsoever, sorry.

    • nocure on 13/12/2015 - 20:28
      +34

      The people are real…

      • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2015 - 01:01
        +32

        The cases are real…

        • nocure on 14/12/2015 - 09:06
          +19

          The rulings are final…

        • Scrooge McDuck on 14/12/2015 - 09:08
          +20

          This is Judge Judy.

        • phana007 on 14/12/2015 - 10:57
          +5

          Baloney!

        • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2015 - 11:03
          +5

          Do we understand each other Sir?

        • YaBigGoose on 14/12/2015 - 20:21
          +2

          @KaptnKaos: Best comment chain in ages hahah

  • gooddealmate on 13/12/2015 - 18:36
    +2

    I'd suggest that if any part of the 60 km/hr has been defaced with graffiti then you're in with a chance of having the ticket cancelled.

    If the graffiti makes the sign harder to read then a court would probably give you the benefit of the doubt in my opinion.

    • lordra on 13/12/2015 - 22:58

      How would I word the Petition? The letter I mean.

      • crayoneater13 on 15/12/2015 - 10:21
        +1

        Simply state the situation, admit you were in the wrong and that you have had no prior records. I had a similar situation like this was 10kph over, was advised to do the previously stated and it worked. I have heard cases where you try to defend your case in your letter and it gets rejected. The police are there to train you into submission namely to be a good Skinner rat. Unfortunately there is little mercy from the court system. Although you may have good reasons e.g. the grafitti the courts are not in favor of the citizen but the copper. The system is for most people to pay fines rather than contest and clog up the court systems. Sorry mate. Just the harsh reality of life here.

        • lordra on 15/12/2015 - 11:11

          Good info, thank you…

    • Utopian on 15/12/2015 - 10:47

      I saw similar play-out in Melbourne magistrates court. In regards to one sign partially blocking another, entering an intersection.

      The judge entertained the defendant's reasoning, but referred to some key rulings, case law.

      Key Point: obstruction doesn't count, if you can still see it.

      Not sure if that helps here. A photo would help.

    • smpantsonfire on 15/12/2015 - 15:47

      There would be 2 signs anyway.

  • Cyphar on 13/12/2015 - 18:36

    Can I use any of this to my advantage?

    Clearly you already did and you got caught doing so

  • boonanza on 13/12/2015 - 18:39
    +1

    You should have on your poll are you an idiot for speeding as well:)

    • lordra on 13/12/2015 - 19:11
      +1

      I thought that was obvious :)

      • RockyRaccoon on 14/12/2015 - 08:15

        You do it online, so it shows you what to do

  • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2015 - 18:40
    +11

    You are fined for 70 in a 60, only 10km/h. This is not an excessive speeding offense, so it comes with demerit points and monetary fine - not an automatic conviction.

    If you ask for leniency within their guidelines you can request a internal review, but internal reviews often aren't very favourable and they will usually say no. If you don't plan to fight it in court so you've got nothing to lose it's worth a shot. If you are lucky then the officer might have put "detected speed: 70km/h" and "alledged speed: 68km/h" in which case you get a lesser fine for being under 10km/h and might qualify for the leniency that he was mentioning to you.

    If you want to fight it, examine their evidence, calibration records, etc. you will need to go to court.

    If you go to court and you don't win, the default is for you to receive a conviction of the offense. You have to specifically ask the judge for section 10 "no conviction" and there is a chance that the Judge will say no to that request. You will also have to pay court costs if you lose. Also if your only defense is to look for holes in their process, you are most likely going to need a traffic lawyer who knows what to look for (more $$$) and even then you might not find anything.

    Typically you would hire a lawyer to do this if you can not afford the fine under any circumstances (eg: Loss of License, Conviction) otherwise the cost can be quite uneconomical if it's only to keep points and avoid a fine. The risk of how much you will lose in money and conviction if you follow this path and lose is very high.

    Being poor only makes it harder. Sometimes it's better to suck it up princess and pay your fine.

    • AlanHB on 14/12/2015 - 14:15
      +4

      As the offence of speeding is usually a regulatory offence, rather than a criminal offence, you cannot get a conviction for it, and section 10 (assuming you mean a "non-conviction order") does not apply.

      Traffic offences don't usually show up on your criminal background check, they are generally recorded in a separate road history check.

      A traffic offence will generally not need to be declared with your criminal history when asked.

  • ozhunter on 13/12/2015 - 18:44
    +13

    The cop car is in the opposite lane & takes the liberty to use his rail gun & has a go, clocks me & I’m totally unaware of any of this.

    I'm totally unaware they need to give you notice.

    • lordra on 13/12/2015 - 19:20
      +3

      Lol, I was just describing my blissful lack of awareness…!

    • Scorpiogirl on 13/12/2015 - 19:45
      +2

      Laughing… how dare they!

  • argonide on 13/12/2015 - 18:44
    +5

    Slowing down should be during the approach to the 60kmph zone, not once you enter it.

    • lordra on 13/12/2015 - 19:12
      -2

      Yes I was at 60 at time of entering.

      • windale on 14/12/2015 - 08:55
        +10

        0726 – enter 60kmph zone, slow down, not watching the speedo

        This implies you slowed down after entering the 60kmh zone and you were not looking at your speedo either so were you doing 70kmh at that stage? If so it's done and dusted. It's not the end of the world and not only are you wasting your time but ours as well.

    • smpantsonfire on 15/12/2015 - 15:48

      Does that mean entering a 80 zone from a 60 means once you see hte sign you can go to 80? lol jk I know the law

  • whooah1979 on 13/12/2015 - 18:45
    +15

    He speeds up & decides he wants to get ahead of me & at the same time, focusing on my lane, I’ve already sped up as I don’t want him to be next to be when the lane forms a single lane.

    you cannot go over the speed limit when overtaking. you must also give way to the other driver if any part of their vehicle was in front of yours. you should have played it safe and let the other vehicle pass. then they would've received an infringement. when in doubt, slow down.

    btw. welcome to oz, merry xmas and happy nye.

    • lordra on 13/12/2015 - 19:14

      Interesting point that I'm aware of , we were pretty much head to head.

      • ronnknee on 14/12/2015 - 08:51
        +7

        You make it sound like it was a racing competition.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 14/12/2015 - 09:34
      +1

      you must also give way to the other driver if any part of their vehicle was in front of yours.

      Only at a zipper merge where 2 lanes become 1 and neither ends.

      If either lane (usually the left) ends, the traffic in the ending lane must give way as per the rules for changing lanes.

      Which was it OP?

    • jackary on 14/12/2015 - 10:37
      -1

      Source?
      My understanding was that if the left lane is ending, it is irrelevant who's a inch in front of who, the left lane must give way to traffic in the right lane.

      • David-USQ on 14/12/2015 - 19:24
        +2

        Nope - if the car in the left lane is in front of you at the merge you must give way even if you are in the right hand lane.

        • jackary on 14/12/2015 - 20:57

          Contradicts kbzj's link but ok! I don't really care that much :(

    • lordra on 14/12/2015 - 11:06

      I like your reply the best I reckon!

  • Axelstrife on 13/12/2015 - 19:19
    +4

    If you where doing over the 60 speed limits past the sign you are in the wrong no ifs buts and no need to make us read that book you typed above.

    You slow down to the speed before you pass the sign.

    You stuffed and now you pay the fine.

    I'm a green p plater and have never been fined it's really not that difficult.

    • lordra on 13/12/2015 - 19:24
      -8

      Mate, you're missing the point. I was at 60. Sped up to 70 to stay clear and stay safe, according to my driving instincts, then slowed back down to 60. As whooah1979 said, I needed to keep in mind his point.
      Thanks for posting though!

      • Axelstrife on 13/12/2015 - 19:56
        +5

        If you really think you are in the right contest it but from reading the op you are not.

      • Zondor on 14/12/2015 - 15:11
        +3

        So you went over the limit? You did the crime now pay the fine. Get off your high horse and build a bridge instead.

      • ozeebee on 14/12/2015 - 20:11
        +7

        As an Australian currently living in UK, it clearly shows the differences on what matters for certain governments. AU road rules are a joke and aimed towards raising revenue not safety. These officers have strict targets that they need to meet just like any other salesman. So your chances of getting the fine reversed is almosit nil.

        Driving here is very liberating because I don't feel like I need to stare at the speedo 24/7, instead I get to stare on the road where it matters. The drivers here are also less agressive in general compared to majority of road users in Sydney.

        There are speed limits here like anywhere, but you don't get the sense that police on the road are out to get you like a pack of hungry wolves.

        • lordra on 15/12/2015 - 11:09

          AMEN!

  • oscargamer on 13/12/2015 - 19:39
    +6

    you have a ticket alleging you exceeded the posted speed limit

    3 choices

    • pay it, move on and don't speed again….or do speed again
    • contest it and see how you go
    • go to police.vic.gov.au and follow the prompts about getting a warning. you may or may not be eligible for a warning. but you won't know until you read that information and act on it

    whatever you do, stop whinging and whining and act

    • lordra on 13/12/2015 - 20:11

      I'm looking for what to do. The acting part of it is what I'm hoping to get advice on. Thanks.

      • oscargamer on 13/12/2015 - 21:15

        my bad - thought you were in vic

        you still have 3 options…..pick one

        there is no option 4

      • David-USQ on 14/12/2015 - 19:28
        +2

        Just remember if you contest it in court that if you lose not only do you have the fine, but also probably an offenders levy and you also open yourself up to get a higher fine.

        The option you have not canvassed is that most states have the ability to pay off your fine in installments. Another possibility is to do community service, but you would have to qualify under their guidelines to do that.

        Speeding up to "stay safe" is an oxy-moron that will get zero sympathy in court I think.

        • lordra on 15/12/2015 - 10:38

          Cheers for that David! Good information.

  • RockyRaccoon on 13/12/2015 - 19:58
    +1

    Apart from the above, who delight in telling you how bad you obviously are… :)

    You may want to know that according to the Silver Eagle II operational manual for NSW police. (the radar unit they use)

    4.3.2 Heavy Rain
    It has been found from wide experience that heavy, driven rain falling non‐perpendicular to the roadway can add to or subtract from correct patrol speed depending upon the relative direction of the radar. This problem is avoided by adherence to the operational guidelines. Fog, light rain or drizzle will cause some reduction in effective range but will not affect accuracy.

    Problem for you is that the rain as you say wasn't heavy.

  • supnigs super skids on 13/12/2015 - 20:25

    Those handheld speed radars are only accurate when used in a horizontal line of sight. If you were pinged at an incline it would be an inappropriate use of the radar and may produce a wrong reading. Depends on the situation you were in or how over you were pinged at and what you agreed to on the spot.

      • mrham on 13/12/2015 - 21:53
        +4

        Why have a crack at someone just trying to add to the discussion? If you have other knowledge that may contradict or, heaven forbid, be more correct why not share it in a normal way instead of acting like a flog?

      • supnigs super skids on 14/12/2015 - 01:25

        refer to the radar manual and its proper usage oscargamer. It doesn't work the way you think it kid.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2015 - 13:15
          +1

          It will give a wrong/inaccurate reading yes, but not higher. Taken from any angle outside of 0 or 180 degrees (horizontally or vertically) relative to the direction of travel the radar reading will always be less than the actual speed.

          In other words, the manual is saying : "If you want a higher chance of nailing speeders, reduce the angle of your position relative to the direction of travel as much as it is safely possible".

    • akyeeeahdude on 13/12/2015 - 21:20
      +9

      I was clocked by a moving patrol car (fitted with on board lidar) around two blind corners (almost like a crescent shape with a S thrown in the middle).
      The officer told me that he clocked me as I past x street when he was passing x street (850m away).
      I took it to court and lost despite:
      1. Him clocking me around two blind corners from 850m away (the audio recording was supplied and also I submitted maps and photos). There was also a car in front of me that turned left down a side street before the officer had line of sight.
      2. Calibration records did not match his car - they supplied the certificate for rego XXX XXX but the patrol car had a different number plate. When I cross examined the officer, he said the keys had been stolen so they changed the rego as a precaution. I asked him and the prosecution for any supporting documents for this, none were offered.

      I lost and lost hard. It so wasn't worth contesting in hindsight as instead of something like a $200 fine, it was over $1000 and I was told by the magistrate that I wasted the courts time. I just can't believe it when I hear people who do much worse on the roads (and off for that matter) and get fined less than I did.

      It's just not worth it.

      This was in an outer suburbs Brisbane court btw.

      • lordra on 13/12/2015 - 22:43

        I was clocked by a moving patrol car as well. I'm sorry to hear about your process. Did you go thru a lawyer? Why was it so expensive?

        This shows you lost bad and hard. It's so not fair mate.

        I'm sorry you lost that. Must've been a terrible feeling.

        • akyeeeahdude on 14/12/2015 - 10:23
          +1

          Thanks mate. I wasn't including the consultant's fee, fine by the magistrate was $1000 and then on top I had to pay the offender levy and court costs.

      • Joxer on 14/12/2015 - 00:11
        +4

        Sounds like you got an arse of a magistrate.

      • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2015 - 01:04
        +1

        You had a fair case with point 2. If they didn't provide the necessary documentation to prove that a change of registration was actually effected, I'm not sure how you lost…

        • Finde on 14/12/2015 - 04:14
          +1

          It didn't change anything because it didn't make a difference. As long as the actual unit is calibrated it doesn't matter what vehicle the moving mode radar goes in.
          Magistrates' also get pissed of when people represent themselves because generally speaking, they have no idea what they are doing and waste the courts tone which are already flat out.

        • crayner on 14/12/2015 - 07:48
          +3

          @Finde: He who represents himself has a fool for a client.

        • akyeeeahdude on 14/12/2015 - 10:17

          @Finde:

          Not really correct (at least in QLD). The LIDAR isn't moved from car to car and not calibrated again. The calibration certificate has the date, time, vehicle details and even location (some random backstreet) where it was calibrated. They often do a whole heap at the same time so the calibration certificate has many vehicles on it.

          The officer has to verify his onboard LIDAR with his digital speedometer in the car at the start of the shift. The officer in question confirmed this in his statement that he completed this verification before the start of his shift.

        • lordra on 14/12/2015 - 11:08

          @Alister: We learn something new everyday.

      • dealman on 14/12/2015 - 11:29

        So sorry to hear this man,

        Did you get any pre advice from Traffic Lawyers to suggest you had the possibility of winning the case ?

        How did you decide to zero in on that fact that the calibration records did not match the car ?

        • akyeeeahdude on 14/12/2015 - 21:36

          I thought this would be significant and so did my consultant (who said it was potentially a case winner).
          Interesting that the magistrate accepted the officers reasoning without proof of the number plate change.

  • t_c on 13/12/2015 - 20:54

    I've also heard that they cant book you at the bottom of a hill. And people have gotten off for it.

    • oscargamer on 13/12/2015 - 21:19
      -3

      is that a camera or a mobile radar?

      thanks for you valuable input though

      have you also heard that you can't get arrested if the copper hasn't got his hat on? or some other urban myth crap?

    • nephilim on 13/12/2015 - 22:10
      +2

      They purposely do country roads that are steep here in SA, not that matters because they are now lowering the speeds near one tree hill because some rich brat died (always the story)

    • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2015 - 01:05

      Not the case in VIC anymore.

    • Finde on 14/12/2015 - 04:10

      Police can in Victoria.

    • akyeeeahdude on 14/12/2015 - 10:42

      Mine was also down a hill, doesn't matter.

  • oscargamer on 13/12/2015 - 21:21
    +4

    Metal fence. Pov of the Cop http://imgur.com/5YzEf3x

    are you using your mobile phone while driving?

    another ticket coming your way…..

      • Zondor on 14/12/2015 - 15:13
        +4

        Enjoy your 2nd fine, Get off that high horse. No mobile phone use at all while driving. If Im trying to get somewhere and the person ahead of me doesn't go when it's green cause he's too busy dicking around on his phone then yall deserve each and every fine you get.

      • Pornboy69er on 14/12/2015 - 17:44
        +3

        Wow you're an idiot kid.

        Go pay that fine and don't speed or use your phone while driving

    • lordra on 15/12/2015 - 10:37

      A small Nikon camera is called a point and shoot.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-and-shoot_camera

      • Turd on 15/12/2015 - 11:15
        +3

        Not allowed. It is illegal to use a camera at the lights.

  • calcium on 13/12/2015 - 22:17

    Wife got a speeding 55 in a 50 zone.
    Wrote a nice letter to them stating out of character blah blah blah…
    (which it was).

    Got off with a warning instead.

    • love2buy on 14/12/2015 - 17:57

      Is the warning recorded for future reference?

      • calcium on 15/12/2015 - 10:30

        I would say so, cos otherwise, you could get off with just
        warnings perpetually.

        • shmahoo on 15/12/2015 - 21:29

          yes it is, but you're allowed to do this once every one or two years (can't remember which one)

  • ATangk on 13/12/2015 - 22:22

    Fuel efficiency, you would be doin 80 in a 100 zone. I think its stated that somewhere between 60 and 80 is optimal for most cars.

    • blitz on 13/12/2015 - 23:49
      +2

      Please oh please oh please use this as your excuse. Then come back and tell us how it went.

      • ronnknee on 14/12/2015 - 08:55

        He's just responding to part of OP's post.

        I’m the only moron doing 100kmph in a 100kmph zone while everyone else is zooming past at about 110-120. Fuel efficiency you see. :)

  • MITM on 13/12/2015 - 22:24
    +5

    You're in oz - utes have right of way.

    Cop sees you going head to head and knows the winner is going to be the one who breaks the speed limit (and ends up in his sights) - congratulations winner, here's your prize ticket.

    • lordra on 13/12/2015 - 22:48

      Lol ok I'll keep that in mind. So just pay it I suppose.

      Write first, then pay it.

    • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2015 - 01:06
      +10

      Is it just me or do the majority of ute drivers drive like a knob?

      • r3dfusi0n on 14/12/2015 - 01:31
        +1

        It's not just you.

      • fwdcelica on 14/12/2015 - 10:52
        +1

        100% correct.
        They also like to have loud exhausts on said ute.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/12/2015 - 00:01
          +1

          Lol I had a friend who owned a commodore and removed his exhaust to make it sound better

  • GameChanger on 13/12/2015 - 23:11
    +1

    Why were you racing?

    • lordra on 14/12/2015 - 00:04
      -3

      Cos I'm a game changer…!

  • bargaino on 14/12/2015 - 00:34
    +1

    pulled up and handed a ticket for going at 70kmph

    So $112 and 1 demerit in NSW? Not bad for racing a ute. Lucky you were not booked for 71km/hr, which is $260. Maybe he was being nice?

    • lordra on 14/12/2015 - 11:18

      Lol, it was the 260 haha!

  • Hirolol on 14/12/2015 - 01:02
    +3

    Im going to bethat guy that says slow down!

    Seriously i dontundrrstand people when all the cars are banked up and then they get the chance so they overtake the car infront but the traffic is bumper to bumper.. Wow you got 1 spot ahead but we still stuck?!?!?

    Just slow down is all people haveto do. Hell you dont even need to go the speed limit most of the time. Even 5k's slower and you wouldnt be in this situation… Once you factor in traffic lights and other cars the different from going 5's slower is a few minutes.

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