Universities: Europe Vs. Australia - Choosing a Master Degree

Hansi on 07/02/2016 - 10:55
Last edited 07/02/2016 - 10:58

Hey guys,

I am currently looking into doing my Master's Degree in an IT related field (combined degree of IT / Business) in either Australia (Sydney) or Europe.

I currently work as a Risk / Fraud Analyst in Sydney and my goal is to be a Project Manager / IT consultant in the field in the future.

Background: After finishing school I studied IT, and switched to a combined Business / IT degree.
I graduated with a Bachelor of Science and came to Australia. I have since been working for the same employer for about 4 years now and want to further progress in my career. I am planning for a long term future in Australia.

The first crucial question is:

  • Is a Master's Degree important for the Australian job market (IT / Business related)?

My Australian friends seem to have a different opinion on the importance of Master's Degrees in Australia.
They suggest to rather progress through work / promotions.
Contradictory to this most of my friends from overseas have done their Master's Degrees, which had a positive impact on their career.

The way I see the advantages / disadvantages of both options are:

Europe:

Pro:

  • University would be free (through my European citizenship)
  • Wouldn't need to work besides uni (receiving financial aid from home country if I study within Europe - only 50% of which need to be paid back)
  • Financial aid would allow studies abroad for up to 1 year when Master's Degree is based in Europe
  • Learning a new language (depending on the country I would like to study in)
  • Be closer to my family (some friends / relatives will get married this and next year too)

Contra:

  • European degree might not be highly regarded in Australia
  • No local networking opportunities
  • Moving away from Australia (planning for a long term future in Australia and I have all my personal items here now)

Australia:

Pro:

  • Australian universities are highly regarded local and internationally
  • Possibility to network during university
  • I already live here

Contra:

  • Higher costs of approximately $50k (I will become Australian soon, so at least fee-help / HECS would be available)
  • Need to work besides studying due to higher costs of living, which gives me less freedom to study / learn new things

Local universities I am looking at:
UNSW, ANU and Melbourne have great combines IT / Business Master's, which were recommended by people I met in the industry.

The most ideal option I have found so far is:

Study at a European university which partners up with a renowned Australian university, study in Europe and include a year in Australia (a year "abroad").

This way I would be able to combine the financial aid from my home country with the opportunities of studying locally in Australia.

If you have any question I am happy to help.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

TL;DR

OP is looking for the advantages / disadvantages of doing a Master's Degree in Europe / Australia - future employment will be in Australia. Cost for studying over 2 years would be approximately $50k higher in Australia.

Poll Options

  • 7
    Study in Australia
  • 9
    Study in Europe
  • 19
    A Master's Degree is overrated, keep working
Education & Work

Comments

  • mskeggs on 07/02/2016 - 11:46
    +2

    A master's is worth less with regard to employability than 12 months experience, but since you already have work experience, it wouldn't hurt. I have never seen a business role be offered to one candidate rather than another based on a masters degree, all the paper really signifies is you are reasonably smart and can stick to something.
    If you want to be a project manager you probably want to look at PRINCE2 or PMBOK as your next qualification anyway.

    With regard to the more important question of what is the correct life experience, I would definitely say doing a year studying in Europe.
    European universities are well regarded, the extra language and cultural skills you develop will aid you throughout your life and you will have an interesting and unusual set of experiences. Add the financial benefits compared to adding debt here and it is very clear to me which path to pursue.

    I actually think your option of trying to get a piece of paper in Australia via some euro affiliated Uni would be pointless except for the hecs saving. An undergrad degree from an Aussie Uni and a grad degree from a European Uni will always be better regarded here than both pieces of paper from a local Uni except in very particular circumstances where the local department is world leading I its field (not many like that)

    • mskeggs on 07/02/2016 - 11:50

      One clarifying question. You said you would be learning a language, but on a closer read it seems you grew up in Europe. Which country are we talking about and where is your undergrad education from?

      • Hansi on 07/02/2016 - 13:27

        Thanks for your input mskeggs.

        I grew up in Germany. I am fluent in Germany and proficient in English. I'm also intermediate in Norwegian ( learnt it for 3 years ), French ( learnt for 2 years and lived in Paris for a few months ) and on a beginner level in Spanish.

        I am looking Scandinavian / French countries in particular, given that I already know the basics and could hopefully improve those language skills.

  • ahara on 07/02/2016 - 12:19

    Are you German by any chance? ;)

    • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2016 - 12:56

      My favourite :)

    • Hansi on 07/02/2016 - 13:28

      I am indeed. I guess my username gave it away, haha

      • ahara on 07/02/2016 - 14:05

        Actually I thought you were based on the "50% benefits from the Government" statement (Bafoeg). Did not see your username till then :)

        • Hansi on 07/02/2016 - 16:21

          That's what I was referring to exactly. :)

  • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2016 - 12:58
    +2

    I have a Master degree from Australia (not IT) and I think it is a benefit because lots of ads say Master degree holders preferable or will be looked upon favourably or whatever.
    But it depends how long the degree took. I would rather work for 5 years than study for 5 years if I already have a degree in that field. But 1-2 years i would study.

    My friends have all done Master degrees in Europe - Leiden is very popular, LSE, Cornell (US).

    Have you factored in life experience too? I wish I had done exchange when I studied but was SO obsessed with having a perfect transcript I never did and sometimes regret it.

    • Hansi on 07/02/2016 - 16:26

      Hey Beethoven, thanks for your comment.

      The longest Master's Degree I saw took 2 years full time, so that would be the longest I would study for.

      You seem to be in the same situation - doing your Master's Degree seems to be more common in Europe.

      During university I have studied abroad in Toronto and also moved to Paris for a while.

      I have also done an internship and my Bachelor Thesis at Deutsche Telekom where I worked for 18 months during the end of my degree.

      They offered a full time position upon graduation, but I decided to risk it and come to Australia to try my luck over here. Haven't regret my decision and love it here!

      • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2016 - 21:44
        +1

        Those sound like amazing experiences!

        Welcome to Australia
        PS - I speak German and I love your country, food and people :)

        • Hansi on 08/02/2016 - 20:46
          +1

          Thank you very much!

          Looks like Australia made the race for me :)

  • ahara on 07/02/2016 - 13:03

    To answer your question Hansi:

    It depends at which stage of your career life you are at and where you plan on living/working in the future.
    As you probably know, in European countries (Germany), a good degree can be more valued than experience in a certain company or field.
    In Australia, I've realised myself that work experience is often seen as more important than a particular degree.

    However, (even in Australia) I believe that once you reach a certain career level and wish to advance further to the top, you will need a Master's degree (e.g. MBA). A Masters may be more highly seen in certain positions than in others. A good degree may be valued more by certain companies, or in a field of work where proof of theoretical knowledge may be a bit more important than a "can-do" attitude and "good work" ethics.

    Finally, from experience I can state that Australian companies often see a locally gained degree as more reputable than a degree from a non-English speaking country. This may be due to the lack of knowledge HR and recruiters have in comparing Universities globally, and only value degrees from local Universities or very well-known Universities in the USA or the UK.

    Hope that helps.

    • Hansi on 07/02/2016 - 16:41

      Thanks for the input ahara.

      What you say is very true, a good degree is often more important than working experience in Germany.

      From what I have seen and heard Australian companies do prefer local degrees, making my decision even harder (otherwise it would just be the expensive Australian degree versus the free degree from Europe)

    • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2016 - 21:42

      But some European universities offer degrees in English.
      Leiden is incredibly reputable and any intelligent HR person should know that place.

      I guess it depends on the HR person.

      • Hansi on 08/02/2016 - 20:47

        I'm only looking at degrees which are 290% in English actually, regardless of the city / country I'm planning to study in.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/02/2016 - 08:03

          That comment was for the other person, not you.

        • Hansi on 09/02/2016 - 22:12

          @Beethoven:
          Hey Beethoven, sorry, I quickly posted this on my mobile device and didn't see this. Hence also the weird 290%, which meant to be 100%.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/02/2016 - 23:42

          @Hansi:

          I loved that percentage.

          PS - your country has the hottest guys. To be totally degrading.

  • eatwell365 on 07/02/2016 - 14:00
    +6

    My 2 cents OP re career advancement in Australia.

    can look upon the shoulders of what your manager/high achievers do.

    • Advance yourself with a Master of BS and be an expert in bluffing.
    • Know how and where to get the nose brown.
    • Appearance can get your extra points.

    Don't BUY A DEGREE, SELL YOURSELF.

    University likes customers who think the same as you.

    No need to self find, if you are smart, work will pay/subside you.

    • ahara on 07/02/2016 - 14:08
      +1

      Absolutely agree with the "Don't BUY A DEGREE, SELL YOURSELF." comment.

      Too often I see managers who really do not have the business skills or interpersonal skills and only got the role based on selling themselves. Degrees are indeed only offering you an opportunity to enter the room, but you still have to prove yourself. Pitty that so many companies do not reward performance and rather reward "relationships" and "sales people".

  • try2bhelpful on 07/02/2016 - 14:13
    +1

    Rather than the degree itself I would concentrate on what sort of job you want after you have qualified; that should be the determinate for you.

    I am a bit "old school" in that my degrees were during the 80s but I have worked in the IT industry, including Implementer, Designer, Architect and Project Management work over the last 30 years. If you want something Project Management related then I would get a PM specific certificate, e.g PRINCE2 or PMBOK and then apply for PM jobs in the IT area of organisations hyping your experience in the security field. I don't think Australian companies really care about Masters degrees if you can show them you have PM certificates, have a track record of dealing with both sides of the fence, e.g. the techies and the clients, and can demonstrate in the interview you know what you are talking about in relation to delivering projects on time and on budget. If you really pitch it right you might be able to get your new employer to help with getting the Masters in the long run. If you can't get in the door with just the certificates then look at the Masters options. My 2c

    • Hansi on 07/02/2016 - 16:50

      Thanks for the comment.

      I also looked into doing certificates PRINCE2, PMBOK, PMP, Scrum / Agile etc., unfortunatly my current employer doesn't care much about this.

      They are happy to allow me some time in the evening to study on courses myself, but don't see why they should support me in my degree, which I find quite annoying.

      I know that other employers actually invest in their staff and will help them progress an develop, rather than "just employ" you.

      • try2bhelpful on 07/02/2016 - 18:08
        -1

        What sort of hours do you work? Surely what you do in the evenings is your own time, unless they have you on lateshift?

        The problem with supporting you in your degree is that you then become more attractive to other employers, as well as your current one; they may not see the bang for buck. Unless you are an indentured slave, or on a Visa, they can't stop you looking elsewhere.

        I would still look into the PM certification because my employer, and the clients we deal with, are looking for PM certification as a quality control measure. Apart from the qualifications it is how you present yourself in the interview. The Masters might mean they don't discard you as a matter of course; but once you're in the interview it is a level playing field. It is not just what you know, but how you are going to fit in with the other people in the company and how confident you come across. Guard your reputation as it opens doors.

        Best of Luck

        • Hansi on 07/02/2016 - 18:55

          Thanks for the help!

          I usually work 8.30am - 6pm,sometimes if need be until 7pm.

          Other people have left into better positions elsewhere already and I'm looking around too.

          Good too know about the PM certificates.

          I think after 4 years of working in the industry I think it would be time to get a first certificate.

  • Lysander on 07/02/2016 - 22:08

    Dear Hansi,

    most likely you will not be eligible for a scholarship in Germany as you have lived in Australia. Even if you are German there are some residency requirements. Best check that as one of my friends got a nasty surprise thinking just like you did.

    Re your question:

    If you see your long term future in Australia, do it here or rather simply work as degrees are not worth as much as work experience in Australia.

    If you see it in Europe or want to go back there, definitely do it in Europe as Australian degrees will not help you much in Europe.

  • Hansi on 08/02/2016 - 20:51

    I think you are referring to the rule that you have to have lived in Germany for at least three years prior to commencing your studies in order to proof that you have a "proper connection to Germany". Thus was actually overturned a out 2 years ago, lucky me.

    If your friend is interested in this, here is an article about it:, Here

    Thank you very much for the input!

    • Lysander on 29/03/2016 - 14:29

      You still have to have studied one year in Germany before you can use that support. That rule has not been eliminated - at least not so far.
      So unless you do a two year Master no luck for you and quite rightly so.
      Why should Germany support you and then Australia or another country gets the benefit, especially from outset?
      Also, if you applied for dual citizenship and used the HECS argument, the Germans will deny your application for support and you will have to sue. Happened to some friends.
      Good luck with suing. Also, with the additional costs for all the refugee students those laws are currently being overhauled to reduce costs.
      If you see your future in OZ study here and contribute to system here.

  • schme88 on 09/02/2016 - 11:08

    Hi Hansi

    Bit off topic but can I ask how you will become 'Australian' soon if you are a German citizen?

    My partner is German and I thought you can't have dual citizenship with a German passport. Maybe you know different?

    Cheers

    • Hansi on 09/02/2016 - 22:18

      Hey Schmee88,

      I applied for the allowance of dual citizenship through the German embassy.

      The general rule is that you are not allowed to hold another citizenship ( your German citizenship would automatically be revoked ).

      However, you can apply for, lets call it dual citizenship harden-ship, if you can proof that you require both citizenships to maintain your normal lifestyle.

      Have a read about it on the consulate page

      There is also a good Yahoo page about it.

      • schme88 on 10/02/2016 - 12:52

        Thanks so much! The Yahoo group will be very helpful for my partner. Good luck!

      • [Deactivated] on 20/05/2016 - 20:16

        Bump - I am a dual citizen of 2 different countries.
        Why do you retain your Australian citizenship?

        Technically I can qualify for 4 citizenships but Australia says once you apply (and are approved elsewhere) your Australian one is revoked… I am wondering about getting citizenship in certain countries for my future children's benefits/options.
        Australia is my second citizenship.

        • Hansi on 21/05/2016 - 22:06

          Most of all, being a German who has lived here for over 4 years now, I feel like Australia is my present and my future.

          I can identify myself with the Australian beliefs and values and love this beautiful country.

          The second thing is that, if I ever decide to go back to Germany for a while for some reason, I won't have to think about having to get a resident return visa.

          Furthermore I will be able to vote and qualify for for certain jobs only citizens are eligible for.

          Unfortunately I am not sure how it would work for a third citizenship in addition to the German and Australian one.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2016 - 06:12

          @Hansi:

          Thank you for your answer.

  • 973728 on 29/02/2016 - 18:16

    I'm late to the party, but I can tell you that if your aim is to be a project manager in IT, even if you were to progress in employment to PM level, it would generally be expected that you gain PM related qualifications. One way to do this is through Swinburne online.

    • Hansi on 03/03/2016 - 13:16

      Hey 973428,

      Thank you for your reply.

      I'm aiming to do project management and risk management certificates in the future in order to proof knowledge and past experience. I will look into how to do this, because at my current employer those certificates are not needed. Either a future job or paying out of my own pocket are the alternatives at the moment.

      I checked out the Swinburne online course and can see that other universities offer similar certifications. Most 1 year courses cost a kit $10k

      • Chewie on 13/04/2016 - 23:49

        If you're looking at a Masters in PM, I concur with the other comments that the PM certification like Prince 2, Agile, PMBOk, etc would be better for your career (in Australia anyway). After my Bachelor's I did a Masters in PM and it seems less regarded at interviews (when I went to those) than specific PM certification. But then again, I'm doing a MSc in Psychology from a UK uni now anyway (but likely swapping to a local Bachelors).

        • Hansi on 14/04/2016 - 20:48

          Hey Chewie,

          I appreciate your input. Always good to hear what works / is in demand in real life, rather than what universities advertise.

  • durendal on 06/04/2016 - 13:24

    If the Masters degree is for yourself then you could do it online through variety of European UNIs, then possibly PhD if you desire. In Australia Masters degrees are not viewed, as you may know by now, as positively as in Europe, and may be seen as a drawback. The fact is, most Australians do not have or proceed through to postgraduate education but prefer to complete professional qualifications, or other shorter professional courses and gain years of experience instead. This may contribute to Masters degrees being viewed less favorably here than in Europe or in Asia.

    I would have some questions for you in case you decided to PM me. Cheers

    • Hansi on 14/04/2016 - 20:49

      Sent you a PM

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