Should E-Cigarettes Be Reconsidered for Posting?

tomw20 on 17/02/2016 - 20:18

For mods: Please inform me which category I should post this if not here. Thank you.

So I honestly think at this point, that e-cigarettes (or vapes more commonly known), have been reasonably proven to be HEALTHIER (not 100% risk free, as nothing in this world is) than tobacco. I do not see why it continues to be banned more than two years after the original poll (https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/136156). I can agree at the time it was an unknown, but since then, the research surrounding vapes has been majority positive.

This is based on FACTS. The media does have a habit of presenting falsified research, but the papers I have seen clearly state the health benefits of quitting. For example, in the recent diacetyl / popcorn lung "scandal", it was found that yes, e-liquids do have some present, however, it was also found that cigarettes have hundreds of times more of the chemical than e-cigarettes.
Source: http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com.au/2015/12/new-study-fin… (academic papers are linked within the story here)

Second hand smoking has been a plagued issue for a while now, and does in fact give just as much chance of harming those around you as yourself, however, vaping has been proven to have a minimal nicotine content, as well as none of the accompanying chemicals in regular tobacco smoke.
Source: http://healthland.time.com/2013/12/13/smoke-from-e-cigs-stil…

There are plenty more examples to find, and I encourage you to make up your own mind on their safety and their benefits, but I would also encourage you to fact check what you see, and try it. If it's not for you, that's fine. Personally, it's great for me, I don't smell it anymore, I feel lighter better breathing etc. I was never a heavy smoker, but I am glad there is this alternative for nicotine delivery.

I would also encourage mods to keep an eye on some sites, like always, for sockpuppeting and dodgy products.

So, would you consider vapes to be unbanned? Should they be allowed?

Poll Options

  • 37
    Allow
  • 63
    Continue to Ban
  • 0
    Not Quite Sure...
Site Discussion

Comments

  • scotty on 17/02/2016 - 20:33
    +4

    Whether they are healthier alternative is to be debated, however the main issue here is with the tobacco advertisement law in Australia, where ecigs are not allowed to be advertised. OzBargain posts are sometimes seen as advertisement by the authorities (We have to pull some prescription med posts previously), and I am afraid ecigs posts might put us on the bad side with TGA.

    • tomw20 on 17/02/2016 - 20:35

      Interesting point. As long as they are not marketed as a theraputical alternative (as per the law), then there should be no issue. At least, as I've seen.

      • scrimshaw on 17/02/2016 - 20:59
        +1

        The posession or sale of ecigs that are represented for 'recreational' use is unlawful. Currently, ecigs have to be approved by the TGA and has to be sold for 'therapeutic' purposes for them to be legal.

        Source

        https://www.reddit.com/r/aussievapers/comments/3jbv81/bringi…

        Given all the hassles and headaches… I'd say nah.

        • derek324 on 17/02/2016 - 23:39

          "There are no laws specifically addressing the regulation of electronic cigarettes in Australia" (from the first source you quoted).

    • fryandlaurie on 05/07/2016 - 12:53

      The other concern for me is that ecigs can become a gateway to other similar inhalants like eventually wanting to try the hookah or even marijuana. Especially for teenagers and young adults. They are extremely good for people wanting to quit and to adults who make the decision to use them but since ozbargain has a large younger userbase I find it unethical to allow posts for ecigs.

      Unless there is an option in the settings to enable ecig listings like there is for adult goods.

  • frondono on 17/02/2016 - 22:44

    Just from your post, it seems like you have some sort of agenda, do you sell e-cigs?

    • derek324 on 17/02/2016 - 23:40
      +1

      Play the ball (the point) not the Player (the person).

    • tomw20 on 18/02/2016 - 01:34

      Take me at my word, I don't.

  • derpdeder on 17/02/2016 - 23:08
    +5

    Everytime there is some vape discussion, it always turns in to the argument that it is better than smoking tobacco. You know what is better than smoking tobacco or inhaling laced vapour - not addicting yourself to either. Causality between tobacco and cancer took decades to prove. While vape users are out being the guinea pigs for the next way to deliver nicotine, until long term effects are known people should not be encouraged through advertising to take the habit up.

    • derek324 on 18/02/2016 - 13:16
      +1

      This is not about encouraging people to take the habit up, but about advertising healthier alternatives. If one follows what you say, advertising nicotine patches, Nicorette chewing gum, and other similar products should be banned.
      Advice "just stop it" is unrealistic and patronising: it can be applied to drinking alcohol, coffee, and running with scissors.

      • derpdeder on 19/02/2016 - 07:44

        Of course a large element is to encouraging people to vape who do not smoke. Smoking has always had the sexiness of inhaling and exhaling smoke, one of the same attraction that vaping does. Nicotine replacement products do not have this image and are in a completely different field.

        In short no one became a nicotine addict through patches or gum but there is a substantial risk they will with the attraction the vaping has and advertising amplifies this risk.

        • mailbrain on 19/04/2018 - 18:14

          Current research tends to explode this myth - nicotine is massively addictive in any form, but vaping is less addictive than smoking. Although both employ a similar delivery method (I.e inhalation), nicotine reaches peak concentration much, much faster when you burn tobacco rather than vape.

        • derpdeder on 20/04/2018 - 09:42

          @mailbrain: Mate, I think you need to re-read my original post as the point I made 2+ years ago still stands. I'm not particularly concerned if vaping is better for you, less addictive or any other "slightly better but still negative attribute." Advertising a product that we do not know the long-term health affects about is the issue. "Current research" as you vaguely put it cannot causally link any negative health effects yet. Here is some negative research that starts building the case against it though:

          Potential link with health issues: https://www.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/japplphysiol.0071…
          Vaping contains same toxic substances as cigarettes but in lower quantities: http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/23/2/133
          Delivery devices increasing inhalation of metals: https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/ehp2175/
          Same risk to heart issues as smoking: http://jaha.ahajournals.org/content/6/9/e006579

        • mailbrain on 20/04/2018 - 12:05

          @derpdeder:
          Thanks for replying to such an old thread:

          If “advertising a product we do not know the long term health affects about” is the issue, what are your thoughts on plastics, em radiation emitting devices, alcohol, processed foods and soft drink?

          Thanks for the links - 2 and 3 are especially relevant as they highlight why regulation of the industry is critical. Too many cowboys creating products (be that jiuces or products) that elevate the harm associated with vaping.

          For a more thorough and balanced review of current literature try:
          https://www.nap.edu/catalog/24952/public-health-consequences…

        • mailbrain on 20/04/2018 - 18:54

          @derpdeder:
          Just had a chance to read the method of that first paper. P values are pretty good, but very questionable control. They used purified air! Surely a 4 hour exposure to an inert particle of approx the same size would have been better.

          And isn’t link 4 simply measuring the physiological response to nicotine :) Phew, vapes do work!

  • t_c on 18/02/2016 - 08:34

    Nicotine, its just so 90's.

    • mailbrain on 19/04/2018 - 18:13

      So’s alcohol - but that still gets the nod ;)

  • Moderatorneil on 18/02/2016 - 16:03

    If we put aside the moral/health issue from members and the legal issue for OzBargain, what kind of e-cigarette deals are there? We've had reps from companies post ecig/ehooka deals and they looked quite spammy. Are ecigs a comparable product (e.g. is there a Samsung of ecigs)?

    • tomw20 on 19/02/2016 - 01:14
      -1

      Sure are, there's brands like Aspire, Smok, Innokin, and many more every day that are of a high quality. I do agree there are some dodgys out there (in any industry), but for the most part, it can be self moderated by members. Vapers know what is high quality.

      • Moderatorneil on 19/02/2016 - 09:09

        Sure. What would be an example of a deal?

        • mailbrain on 19/04/2018 - 18:08

          Although it ended yesterday - giantvapes.com had a 20% off deal. They’re a us company that sell vaping equipment and juice (the majority have a 0 nicotine option). I’ve used them many times and they are very reputable and the fedex post option arrives within 5 days

  • coin saver on 18/02/2016 - 20:23

    Smoked for 40yrs and gave up 1.5yrs ago (the same day i gave up Champix)anyone who thinks a substitute is better than self discipline is an idiot..A very special friend once asked me if you give a non smoker a nicotine patch would they want to smoke????

    • mailbrain on 19/04/2018 - 18:09

      I would imagine not!!!!

    • mailbrain on 19/04/2018 - 18:12

      I gave up smoking 4 years ago - and have been vaping every day since and have NEVER touched a cigarette since.

      Are you chewing gum, on the patches, living nicotine free or back on the darts?

      • coin saver on 20/04/2018 - 08:03

        Totally free.

        • mailbrain on 20/04/2018 - 11:43

          Awesome - that’s quite an effort after smoking all that time coin saver :) do you think you would have smoked for 40+ years if vaping was around earlier? The reason I ask is not to be argumentative but because that seems to be the case for many people

  • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2016 - 08:48

    i still think you're just swapping one set of chemicals for another.

    it's like saying 'oh i stopped using heroin because it's killing me, i'll just start smoking ice instead'

    of course e-cigs are bad for you, plus they haven't been around long enough to do any long term studies for health risks.

    • mailbrain on 19/04/2018 - 18:23

      Is that a serious argument… you do know that smoking is legal and that it’s responsible for more than a few deaths each year?

  • champ21 on 25/04/2016 - 14:55

    sure they wont be without some side effects but some people such as myself need the extra hand to give up smoking. in noway would they be anywhere near as bad as smoking is though. and timewasting your analogy sucks, it is much easier to drop vaping then the other drugs. as far as legalities to bargains i dont think there are any and selling the hardware is legal and so is the liquid, providing they dont contain nicotine.

    i dont understand why everyone is acting all high and mighty over a product that helps people quit smoking. we are all adults and dont need others belittling us or pretending that they are somehow superior because they dont smoke. everyone has their vices some are worse then others, the same people that get absolutely shitfaced on alcohol would be the same guys having a go here so please save it. i have substituted vaping for smoking for 2 months and intend to quit vaping altogether at some point. seriously people on here are so judgmental its not even funny.

    the same topic was brought up about the banning of alcohol on this site. everyone went apeshit saying this is a nanny state blah blah freedom this we are all adults. how hypocritical you guys are to now completely shutdown e cigarettes, which does not cause ANY of the social and health issues related to alcohol. i completely defended the rights of people to choose to drink even though i myself do not and see why some people enjoy it. do you need me to rant of about the health and social issues related to alcohol ? do you need me to say how stupid you are because you choose to get drunk ? the nerve of people who try and take the moral highground because they have quit smoking or do not smoke is absurd.

    • mailbrain on 20/04/2018 - 22:26

      I suspect because vaping appears so similar to smoking and the decades long anti-smoking campaign has been incredibly effective. Unfortunately our federal government has been negligent at reframing public perception on vaping as a public health tool.

  • Speckled Jim on 03/07/2016 - 17:46

    It's not a matter of "don't" or "won't". Non-smokers can't understand.
    I'm not having a sook, I'm stating a fact of human nature.

    Vaping is automatically associated with the douchiest imaginable characters, because they're the ones seeking attention via social media. There are millions more you never see who have quit smoking, thus improving their quality of life and helping ease the burden on the health system.

    Personally, I don't care what the law, TGA, Quit or anyone else thinks.
    The facts are in — vaping is safe*.
    BBC Horizon
    UK Doctors support e-cigs
    A Billion Lives

    In Australia, we're STILL neglected by the ignorant and clueless whose biggest hurdle is formulating a way of bending us over ($$$) in return for their stamp of approval.

    *Li-poly batteries potentially are not. I use Li-ion.

  • Baysew on 16/09/2016 - 14:12

    The facts are in — vaping is safe

    But not so much for handbags.

    E-cigarette explodes inside woman's bag

    • Speckled Jim on 19/09/2016 - 00:42

      lol

      She said a loose battery had caused the blast.

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