Although the laws have existed for a while and additional changes are coming soon, police made an example of law-breakers recently.
Just a warning that you might want to get that bell for your bike :)
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/feb/26/cyclists…
@Davros: "Perhaps you should live in one that is instead of trying to brainwash everyone here who travels large distances on hot days that a bicycle is a solution."
You keep on asserting that it's too hard for everybody to travel by bike. I'll keep asserting that cycling is a viable option in many circumstances, but people choose not to for many different excuses. I'm not trying to brainwash anyone, just pointing out that a bicycle is an option.
I've never said traveling large distances on hot days is for everyone, but you seem to assert that it is a near impossibility, which it is not - quite a few people do it (not lots though).
Back to your motorcycle option:
A lot of people think they are dangerous.
You'll still get wet if it rains.
In winter you need to suit up or freeze, so where do you store your riding kit at work.
It can be difficult to cart stuff around on one.
You can't pick up more than one passenger on a motorcycle.
Having a motorcycle for commuting is quite expensive with servicing, insurance and registration, especially if you need a car at other times.
You can't hang a motorbike from the ceiling in the garage and need somewhere to park it.
I used to ride a motorcycle and pretty sure that by wearing protective gear I wouldn't be arriving at work "fresh as a daisy" in 30 degree heat after 30 minutes in traffic.
@Euphemistic: "You keep on asserting that it's too hard for everybody to travel by bike."
The simple fact that very few people do it speaks volumes.
"Back to your motorcycle option:
A lot of people think they are dangerous." and a lot think pushbikes are as well.
"You'll still get wet if it rains" I rode home through the rain a couple of nights ago, I was pretty dry when I got home and I dont get wet at all if I stay above 60kph due to screen and fairings
"In winter you need to suit up or freeze, so where do you store your riding kit at work"
I have a huge storage area underseat and a topbox, more than enough storage for 2 lids and two jackets.
"It can be difficult to cart stuff around on one." see above, I regularly carry several bags of groceries under the seat and I have carried 3 cartons of beer on the seat behind me, I haven't got to the top box yet.
"I used to ride a motorcycle and pretty sure that by wearing protective gear I wouldn't be arriving at work "fresh as a daisy" in 30 degree heat after 30 minutes in traffic." I am not the full leather boy racer type - I wear a mesh armour jacket in summer, I arrive fresh as a daisy.
@Euphemistic: More ride motorcycle to work (and more everyday) than bicycles .
There endeth the lesson.
As a motorcycle rider who used to commute to work everyday, I call BS on arriving fresh as a daisy. I don't know where you live but in Brisbane at least, you're going to swelter and sweat all over in summer regardless of what you're wearing.
Mesh style jacket can't save you if you're stuck at traffic light and you cop the heat radiating from the road, your bike and the cars stopped around you.
I also call BS on your fictional story about arriving dry and not getting wet at all if you travel at more than 60km/h. Lol
Maybe you're talking about a little sprinkle, not rain.
@Davros: youre so full of bs….the numbers are: 4 million cyclists….700K motorbike riders.
im pretty sure 4,000,000 is BIGGER THAN 700,000K….
have the petrol fumes been getting to you lately….? cause youre repeating the same rubbish over & over & over again…..
@Davros: I'm just rephrasing your spurious argument against cycling, to see that the same works against motorcycles. I don't care which people use. you are obviously not suited to cycling. I don't want a motorbike. Everyone is different.
@franco cozzo: Where is your evidence of 4 million bicycle riders riding to work?
Anecdotal evidence today was dozens of motorcycle riders on the road on my route and 2 bicyclists.
@djc926:" As a motorcycle rider who used to commute to work everyday, I call BS on arriving fresh as a daisy. I don't know where you live but in Brisbane at least, you're going to swelter and sweat all over in summer regardless of what you're wearing."
BS. I rode 300km yesterday and didnt swelter.
Today I had an appointment in the city and turned up, took of jacket and gloves and walked into a meeting.
I have lived in North QLD, Pacific Islands and South East Asia most of my life. For me 30 degrees is easy.
"Mesh style jacket can't save you if you're stuck at traffic light and you cop the heat radiating from the road, your bike and the cars stopped around you."
True, but as I filter I am on the move albeit slowly through traffic and time it to get to the front on a change. I am rarely stuck for more than a minute or two.
"I also call BS on your fictional story about arriving dry and not getting wet at all if you travel at more than 60km/h. Lol
Maybe you're talking about a little sprinkle, not rain."
You can call what you like the fact remains I was what I would consider dry after what I would consider rain - stuff falling from sky, me wiping water from visor, cars with wipers on, water across road.
If you want to get anal about it yes, my shoulders and arms were damp as was my back slightly but my pants were dry.
I didnt change my shirt when I got home and it was dry soon after.
Sounds to me that you being a sweaty beast when wearing a mesh jacket on a pleasant summer day would be wetter.
Add: Just had a thought, you do know that the inner liner has to come out of a mesh jacket to get the ventilation right?
If you think that cycles only hold up traffic it is probably becuase you just don't notice the bikes that are not holding anyone up. I cycle lots on the road, the only time i hold up traffic is when it is unsafe for them to pass, most cyclists are the same allowing motorists to pass when safe (better to let them pass than get frustrated behind).
When traffic is heavy, I might appear to be holding up cars, but typically cyclists are able to move along faster over all. Sure they might be a bit slower to the next red traffic light, but on average they move faster.
I used to ride home through heavy traffic and it took several kms of open roads for the cars I passed to catch me up again.
So all the real criminals in NSW have been thoroughly been dealt with? No rapes, murders, drug peddlers left? No? Well that can only mean NSW Police are simply after the soft targets because they are incapable of dealing with real crime.
….not only after soft targets but creating new ones. you wont be able to go outside soon without incurring penalty notices… :P
Year 2020: Pedestrians over the age of 12 will now be fined 500 for jaywalking, not wearing a helmet, not having an umbrella, not having a Photo Id and not wearing green and yellow underpants.
I'd better get to Kmart before they sell out, only got black undies.
@Gravy: My oldest Kmart underwear is still going strong, while the bonds stuff elastic has all failed. The Kmart gear is also several years older.
'$425 for not stopping at a pedestrian crossing."
How much is it to burn a red light ? ( With the car )
Same.
$310 I think
I think the most shameful aspect of all this is the sentiment between the two parties; cyclists/motorists in Australia. Whenever a debate about cycling and motorists is brought up and there is people at each other's throats it's related to Australia. And it's astounding that people can't just look at how people in other countries get along and utilise their transport networks.
I do get it though, it was only about 7 years ago I hadn't ridden on the road before. I absolutely hated cyclist "coming into the cars lane" holding up traffic. I had no idea what riding on the road was like and I can guarantee the guys arguing in favour of cars have never ridden a bike on the road in traffic.
Then I started riding into work because I was starting to get a bit heavy, well… my attitude changed instantly, the first car that went past was terrifying but after a few weeks you get used to it. you don't realise that there is a heap of debris in the shoulder, sometimes too much to ride on and is very slippery. The bike lanes are almost always obscured by parked cars.
All these arguments would change if everyone who drove a car took turns riding in heavy traffic on the road, it's like a switch, you suddenly get all those things cyclist are complaining about.
The reverse isn't true though, every cyclist I know already drives a car regularly. I'm about to hop into the drivers seat of one now and be curteous to cyclists. That's all it is at the end of the day, just be decent to each other and the world would be a better place.
Best post in this entire thread! Well done aim865!
Great to hear this response. Good on ya alm865!
Mathew dunn looks like a lycra wearing hipster with a vested interest to me.
Video image shows lycra clad morons mouthing off at cops. For that alone I side with the cops.
What's your problem with Lycra?
Probably package envy
I have no idea what the fines are about and can't be bothered reading the article but the police were around Haymarket/China town, Sydney today.
Why fight crime when you can just fine regular folk? It'll get you promoted way faster.
Also, if the stats given by the news source is correct, a quick calculation in reveals
That's $144,765 dollars in a single day. That's enough money to buy you a 2015 BMW M3 and enough left over to buy a carbon fibre touring bike.
Cha-ching, what a field day — no wonder the police were so active because catching people unawares of the new fines is so damn profitable.
A better way to raise awareness is to issue sample fine with warning message during the introduction period.
Except those stats were under the old fines.
210@$75
80@$75
103@75
Still, it is a valid point. Revenue raising.
The increased fines will hopefully lead to more people contesting them and raising further awareness and possibly having the rules changed in a more positive way.
Got a question, once my daughter is able to even walk, can I teach her to bike on the footpath. I don't want her riding on the road until she can balance herself without training wheels.
Will I get fined for that?
Not if she wears a helmet.
As a responsible parent you will do that right?
Helmet, goggles ,knee pads , shoulder pads, elbow pads and any other pads I can think off
In NSW the only time an adult can ride on the footpath is when accompanying a minor under 12. Minors under 12 can ride footpath at any time.
PS get rid of the training wheels and get a balance bike, it makes the transition to pedal bikes sooo much better,
Thanks for the tip. Definitely keep that in mind
Just want to vent one for the lack of any advance infrastructure planning and vision across Sydney.
Almost every project (new and old) seems patch work, just look at the ugly airport we got.
bike lanes in the city by chopping already congested footpaths and roads.
I bet if all these planners were sacked and replaced with ozbargainers,
at least you will save on costs and value for money :).
More than 450 infringement notices were handed out to Sydney cyclists just last week. This included 210 for not wearing helmets, 103 for disobeying traffic lights, and 80 for riding on the footpath. A further 64 cautions and warnings were issued.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/03/dont-forget-your-id-a-guid…
New explanation video has now been released. Motorists can overtake cyclists, going over double lines, painted islands, if it is safe to do it. Anyone else think this might end up badly?
Feel safe video, but neglects information about revenue raising fines:
Do you have to carry ID?
At this time there is no law requiring you to carry an identity document while riding a bicycle in NSW.
The official line since December was that the law would be in place by March 1, 2016, but a fine would only be enforced from next year.
But, to date, no laws have been passed, even though the official "Go Together" website promoting the changes has been saying that riders "must" carry ID.
A Roads and Maritime Service spokesperson told me that "appropriate regulations and/or legislation will be made closer to March 2017. The next 12 months is about getting cyclists used to carrying ID".
This pause in the process has given hope to some that the measure could yet be abandoned or blocked.
http://www.executivestyle.com.au/metre-passing-laws-and-id-f…
….so dont bother with the id thing (until next year) and if the cops pull you up for a check just waste their time with lots of questions about bike safety …. ;)
It was interesting, so I was looking at the FAQ
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/campaigns/go-together…
From 1 March 2017, acceptable forms of Photo ID will include:
* A current Australian driver licence
* A current NSW Photo Card or interstate equivalent
* An Australian or foreign passport
* An international driver licence, in English or with an English translation
* A photo of the above on a mobile phone or electronic device
So if carrying around your license/photocard/passport is too difficult, bringing a photo of it is good enough!
However, if you are involved in a crash, how will they unlock your phone to see the photo of your ID.
I guess they would have access to your thumbprint to unlock your phone.
I was hoping I could just get a copy of my license printed onto my bicycle, so I'm never without ID.
Which is the main reason their biggest argument 'that it is for cyclist safety' is a great big load of XXXXX. The other reason is that under 18s don't need one - wish I looked younger.
Is this really only for revenue raising in Sydney?
I have seen police drive past groups of cyclists without helmets in our local NSW regional town and they did nothing. Hardly anyone is wearing a helmet here and cyclist ride on the wrong side of the road, not sure how to keep one metre away from oncoming cyclists?
About time.
I've been following this in the news lately, just read through various posts on ozbargain so I'll probably get negged to hell for my opinion.
IMO this is justified. Every single day, I see cyclists running red lights, flying down the roads/footpaths extremely fast, barely ever obeying road rules, talking on their phone while riding, zipping around and refusing to dismount in areas where it says "cyclists must dismount".
No more than two weeks ago my girlfriend told me while walking to her car after work some d***head flew through a tiny, narrow pathway for pedestrians and almost knocked my girlfriend out. He didn't apologise, quite the opposite. He had the nerve to tell her to "effing watch where you're going!". If I was there I would have knocked him right off his bike.
Everyone will probably bitch about "it's just a few bad people ruining it for everyone" - IMO; this is not the case. The vast majority of cyclists ignore road rules and think they're entitled to do whatever they want. So if you're the MINORITY and obey road rules and aren't a complete d***head then hats off to you.
IMO you generalize too much and know nothing about cycling. None of the cyclists I ride with in the outer burbs ever go anywhere near the city much less inner city laneways. Pretty sure those that live in country towns, those that go mountainbiking, those that do track cycling, those that ride in the charity/mass participation rides, and those that race crits do none of the things you accuse, yet you seem to know us all and have worked out the behavior of the majority.
Right mate. That's why I own a pretty decent road bike, follow all the rules and have no problem with the Government introducing this legislation.
When I walk to work through the city, I literally see it every day.
Your argument is pretty much void, I doubt country towns, mountainbike riders etc are going to suffer any consequences or even notice any difference as a result of this. This is targeting the exact people I have a problem with, the majority of cyclists in the city areas.
Let me quote you:
"The vast majority of cyclists ignore road rules and think they're entitled to do whatever they want"
You don't think that is an exaggeration? If you truly believe that then I shudder to think who you must ride your road bike with. I also wonder about the other stereotypes and prejudices that you have. If I am way off the mark then please post us up a reference to some research showing how the vast majority of cyclists are law breaking hooligans. If you can give a link to irrefutable references then I will apologise and shutup.
How is my argument void, you said the vast majority of cyclists ignore road rules and think they are entitled to do whatever they want. When I pointed out some types of cyclists that probably dont fit the stereotype you described and probably arent involved in the small sample of scenarios you highlighted you say their cycling is somehow 'void'? They arent part of 'the vast majority of cyclists'? or is it just that in your limited exposure to cyclists you dont see them very often so you would rahter form a sweeping generalization based upon the small and popular stereotype that crosses your path on city streets.
You're grasping at straws. Let me be more explicit since you obviously take offence to my generalisation.
"From my personal experience, over the past 10 years being in the city on a daily basis; I see most, if not a significantly large proportion (i.e. around 90%) of cyclists breaking the law in some way or another. It is actually rarer for me to see someone on a road bike stop at a red light/yield than not."
Based on my ten years of observing this on a daily basis, I think my point is justified. I am so sick of hearing the leftist, lycra wearing nuts rant on about how these laws are unfair, how they save the environment etc. The fact is, there are SO many dangerous riders out there and from careful observation in the city you will see it every single day. It isn't a small percentage from my daily observations, it appears to be the majority (for your satisfaction; again referring to the city area).
@Chthonic: so then the special fines and rules should only apply to the city? I also ride in a regional area, yes it's a city but it isn't Sydney CBD, have been doing for years. I see cyclists regularly and can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a red light runner or other blatant disregard for the rules that you describe. Much more often I've seen riders hiding in the gutter, getting shaved by impatient twats in motor vehicles. The most illegal thing I see regularly is cyclists on the footpath while no one is around, an act which should be legal.
Your experience does not account for the majority of cyclists in NSW. I'm sick of hearing everyone say that all cyclists are red light runners and reckless law breakers and you as a supposed cyclist are just as bad as those calling for banning bike on roads. These rules are unfair for ordinary people trying to use cheap effective transport. Those who ride to work, ride for exercise on the weekend, ride with the kids on the sharepaths do the right thing on most accounts are now suffering because the law identifies the ratbag minority that get in the media circus as being what all cyclists are like.
@Chthonic: I am a right wing, Tony Abbott voting, ex military Lycra wearing nut that rides in large groups 2 abreast on roads all the time, I ride for fitness and enjoyment and none of the legions of guys I ride with or have ridden with jumps red lights. I spend probably 4 hours a day on sat and sun every weekend rain or shine riding in groups of 20-30+ each time and in the last 4 years I have probably seen 3 or 4 people jump lights. I dont ride in inner city Sydney. My experience is clearly different from yours.
@Euphemistic: You are obviously one who thinks "Can't do that" rather than "How can I?"
Not at all, but logic and reality says there are more suitable options than riding 20km to work on a bike in 30 degree heat, showering, storing fresh clothes + stinking sweaty clothes + towels and toiletries, repeating that daily when I can walk out the door, turn the key on my motorbike and turn up at work fresh as a daisy half an hour later (or an hour in a car)
"Lugging kids around in a trailer is a perfectly suitable option for short trips. I've done it many times over the years, many others do it too. Carting two kids around and enough supplies for them is doable in many situations"
Lugging the family around on a motorbike is a perfectly suitable option for short trips. I see people do it all the time in Asia with many others doing it to. I even see them with fridges, pigs, chickens ducks and cows on them, but a car or light truck would be so much more suitable for that purpose dont you think?
"In countries where cycling is the normal way to get around hooking up a trailer is a great option."
Australia is not one of those countries though is it.
Perhaps you should live in one that is instead of trying to brainwash everyone here who travels large distances on hot days that a bicycle is a solution.