Caterer Not Returning Our Deposit Back

love86 on 21/03/2016 - 22:22
Last edited 22/03/2016 - 17:59 by 1 other user

Getting straight to the point 2 day ago we went to a caterer for complimentary Food tasting. We advised over numerous phone calls to the owner/caterer that there will be 4 of us coming and he said “that fine just bring them".

After finishing the tasting we advised him that we will get back in touch with him in regards to the choosing him. He became angry and demanded that either we pay $ 60.00 for the extra two people or pay a deposit of $500.00 towards the event. When we told him that this is not what he said over the phone and did not mention that it would cost for 2 extra people, he got angry and pointed us to his website which says that extra people will cost $30.00 each and that we should have read it rather than arguing with him.

We again advised him that during our conversations over the phone there was no mention of this. After going back and forth he angrily said that if we pay the deposit today that he will include the 4 people. At this stage we were under so stress and felt being pressured and decided to pay him the deposit $250.00 via debit card(we had to negotiate the deposit down from $500.00).

Now after 2 days unfortunately we have to postpone the event and not sure about what month it will be in we`ve send him an email and advised him to refund our deposit minus the $ 60.00 for the extra people he was demanding. He just replied back advising that he will not return the deposit of $250.00. There has been no contract signed and there is no mention on his website about non-refundable deposit. He stopped responding to our emails/sms now. We believe he uses this tactic with a lot of people

Please advise what we can do in this situation.

Thanks in advance

Update 22/03: Mrs spoke with him in the afternoon and requested him to come in some sort of an agreement to pacify the situation, but the guy stared swearing and stared making comments like she is white and not even Australian, she doesn`t belong here and doesnt know the rules of the country and whilst searing at her said he will not return the money and threatened to destroy our house and hung up

Food & Grocery

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2016 - 22:27

    Please consider this alternative formatting for your post. It makes it much easier to read.

    Getting straight to the point 2 day ago we went to a caterer for complimentary Food tasting. We were advised over numerous phone calls to the owner/caterer that there will be 4 of us coming and he said “that fine just bring them".

    After finishing the tasting we advised him that we will get back in touch with him in regards to the choosing him. He became angry and demanded that either we pay $ 60.00 for the extra two people or pay a deposit of $500.00 towards the event. When we told him that this is not what he said over the phone and did not mention that it would cost for 2 extra people, he pointed us to his website which says that extra people will cost $30.00 each and that we should have read it rather than arguing with him.

    We again advised him that during our conversations over the phone there was no mention of this. After going back and forth he angrily said that if we pay the deposit today that he will include the 4 people. At this stage we were under so stress and felt being pressured and decided to pay him the deposit $250.00 via debit card(we had to negotiate the deposit down from $500.00).

    Now after 2 days unfortunately we have to postpone the event and not sure about what month it will be in we`ve send him an email and advised him to refund our deposit minus the $ 60.00 for the extra people he was demanding. He just replied back advising that he will not return the deposit of $250.00. There has been no contract signed and there is no mention on his website about non-refundable deposit. He stopped responding to our emails/sms now

    Please advise what we can do in this situation.

    Thanks in advance

  • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2016 - 22:29
    +3

    In response to your grievance, if you have already paid him the deposit and then the event was cancelled by you (and not by the caterer), then the caterer has every right to retain the deposit. You don't necessarily need a contract to justify a deposit. The transfer of the deposit in itself creates a contract binding you to the caterer, in this case.

    After all, that is what a deposit ultimately is - a conditional guarantee for a future booking.

    The condition being, if you don't go ahead with the booking, you don't keep the money. If they can't go ahead with the booking, they can't keep the money.

    • love86 on 21/03/2016 - 22:33

      Thanks for your reply .. there was no contract or document we signed . All he demanded was pay the $ 250.00 depositor $ 60.00. There is no mention of non refundable deposit on his website . We are happy for him to minus out $ 60.00 from $ 250.00

    • BigTed on 22/03/2016 - 00:25
      +2

      Where did you get your law degree from Kaptn?

      • QW3RTY on 22/03/2016 - 08:37

        Contract = Offer + Acceptance + Consideration

        Literally business law 101.

        Also; check out NSW Fair Trading regarding deposits. Kaptn is correct.

        If OP really wanted to take the caterer on, they could lawyer up, send a letter claiming that the Contract will be argued as null as it was agreed to under duress. However that requires what OP is saying about his anger and threatening manner is true — and not embellished just like many, many other forum posts on here.

  • Nutrino on 21/03/2016 - 22:34

    Is there more to this story?. What's the event?. What's the total cost of the event?

    • love86 on 21/03/2016 - 22:36

      The event was a family and friends get together at our house. The total cost would have been $ 1000.00.

  • SnoozeAndLose on 21/03/2016 - 22:37

    Got this from the web:

    As the NSW Fair Trading website explains: “The actual amount the trader is allowed to retain depends on the circumstances. This money compensates the trader for the time and expense devoted to the transaction, but should not be so high as to constitute a penalty.”

    As you only paid a small amount, it unfortunately looks like you may be out of luck. The moral to the story is to always carefully read any document you are asked to sign so you know what the potential penalties for pulling out are.

    However, if the termination fee was not stipulated in the written agreement, the business is required to refund the full amount that the consumer has paid. By Australian law, all terms and conditions relating to laybys/deposits must be laid out in writing in easy to understand language, including any termination charges.

    If he did not mention this in any of the term and condition, you will have a high chance to get it back, if he stop communicating with you, you can lodge an complain with NCAT which you have to pay a small amount of fee and you would win in this case.

    • love86 on 21/03/2016 - 22:47

      Thank you for your reply . We are in Victoria, we are happy to compensate $60.00 as demanded by him for his time and efforts, but holding us hostage for $250.00 is unreasonable.

      There is no agreement signed by us. No contract, No document , No mention of non refundable deposit/ termination charges nothing . There is no mention of non refundable deposit on his website as well.

      Mr`s has contacted the bank who have advised to lodge a dispute and they will get in touch with him within 5 business days and will try to resolve it

  • spackbace on 21/03/2016 - 22:57

    Always amazed at the people that just hand over their hard-earned so easily. Even if you had to, you could've negotiated the $60 down to $30, a far cry off $250…

    • love86 on 21/03/2016 - 23:07

      Now facing the situation we realize what fools we were coming under pressure . I guess I just lost my thinking power seeing Mrs and family stressed and just wanted to get out of there :-(

  • Ridiculous Panda on 22/03/2016 - 00:20

    Don't know about the legal side of this but common says you aren't entiltled for a refund because this is exactly the purpose of the refund you paid. It is to compensate the guy in case of change of mind. Now 25% deposit is too much but this is what you agreed on.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/03/2016 - 00:33

      Don't know about the legal side of this but common says you aren't entiltled for a refund because this is exactly the purpose of the refund deposit you paid.

      FTFY.

      • love86 on 22/03/2016 - 08:44

        We were never advised about this during our numerous conversations , verbal , written or on his website . Even when we paid the deposit it was not mentioned to us that it is non refundable. NO terms and conditions written or otherwise were advised or shown to us during the last 20 days we have been speaking with him. We felt pressured into paying him the deposit at that stage. Had it been that we had been advised about the condition of the deposit being non refundable yes then I would have not raised the concern .

        We are happy to pay him the $60.00 for his time and effort as that`s the price he was looking at charging us if we were not to pay him the deposit that day

        • Ughhh on 22/03/2016 - 08:54
          +2

          http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Consumers/Buying_goods…

          Deposit myth
          'I've changed my mind. But I can still get my deposit back.'

          Deposit fact
          It depends. Whether you realise it or not, the piece of paper you sign is a contract.
          When you place a deposit on an item, you may be entering into a binding agreement to proceed with the transaction. If you change your mind, the trader may be entitled to retain all or part of your deposit.
          The actual amount the trader is allowed to retain depends on the circumstances. This money compensates the trader for the time and expense devoted to the transaction, but should not be so high as to constitute a penalty. As a gesture of goodwill, many traders will return your deposit.

  • The Champagne Mile on 22/03/2016 - 08:51
    +1

    OP, your original post states the event is only being postponed - have you considered asking the caterer if you can use the deposit as credit for the future event?

    • love86 on 22/03/2016 - 11:44

      As we need to go overseas for an extended period of time , we just advised him that "at this stage due to unforeseeable circumstances we have to postpone the event and will get in touch with you once we are back , so please kindly arrange for a refund for our deposit minus the $ 60.00 that was supposed to be paid for his time and effort in setting up the tasting 2 days ago."
      To which he replied, " Sorry mate , the deposit cannot be returned". We texted him advising to be considerate about our situation as its out of our hands . Tried calling but no answer

  • bobbified on 22/03/2016 - 09:28
    +2

    You sound like the reason you're wanting your deposit back because as you say, no contract was signed.

    Look at it the other way and say you proceeded with your party on the originally agreed date and the caterer called on the day and said he can't make it because "no contract was signed".

    It works both ways. What I'm saying is, you can't use that to your advantage.

    There was obviously a verbal agreement when you handed the money over, unless you just decided to give the caterer that money and not even tell the him what sort of food you wanted and the date you wanted it on - I doubt you would've just handed him the money with no agreement.

    In this case, it's you that's breaking the verbal agreement so your best bet is to try and negotiate with them - whether it's to hold the money in credit for a future event or accept a smaller refund.

    On a different point though, if the caterer was already like that at the beginning - wouldn't that ring alarm bells straightaway and tell you that this guy is going to be difficult to deal with?

    • love86 on 22/03/2016 - 12:06
      -3

      The reason we are wanting out deposit back is we need to go overseas for an emergency. I understand what you mean when you say it works both way however the event is not until first week May and we just went for the tasting just 3 days ago . So its not like we have advised him to cancel it last minute.

      We only went to taste the food as he would after every few days ring or sms my partner stressing on the fact that we should come and do a tasting . When we advised him about extra people coming every single time he just kept on saying "dont worry about 4 people just come and taste, dont worry just come and taste" and when we went there he changed tunes demanding the payment for extra people or putting pressure on us to pay the deposit.

      We dont believe we are breaking any verbal agreement , as there was no mention of first the payment of extra people, no mention of non refundable deposit verbal or otherwise. We are accepting to pay him $ 60.00 which he was asking on that day for his time and effort if we dont pay him the deposit.

      What would you do If say you ask a moving company to move houses , he comes to your house and demands either to be compensated for his time to come to you or pay the deposit . You pay the deposit and then unfortunately after 2 days you for whatever reason have to postpone the moving and are unsure about when you would need him again. Wouldnt you ask for the deposit back? and when you ask about it he just says no Im not returning it .

      Does this mean you've entered a verbal contract with him ? In that case what happened to the verbal contract of us not paying him $ 60.00 for the tasting? Then anyone would just say come to my restaurant for free food , when you go eat they demand money or hold you hostage until you put a deposit for a future event.

      Yes , we were fools. We just shouldnt have gone through this. But this is what the situation at the moment and we are just asking for help cause we have not dont anything wrong

      • bobbified on 22/03/2016 - 12:52
        +2

        I believe there's two issues here.

        The first being that he didn't mention to you that there's extra cost for more than 2 people for the tasting; and
        Secondly, the deposit after the agreement was made.

        Does this mean you've entered a verbal contract with him ? In that case what happened to the verbal contract of us not paying him $ 60.00 for the tasting?

        In relation to the tasting, I'd say it's arguable and bordering on the caterer not being so upfront. Were you going to book that caterer anyway? Because it almost seems like you had already decided on using him buthe wanted you to at least taste his food anyway. It's almost sounds like he had an expectation that you'd leave a deposit after tasting.
        And probably hence the reason he said he would've been happy to absorb the cost of the tasting for 4 people if you left a deposit.

        If you called a plumber and asked him whether he can fix your toilet and he says "yessss… suuuuure!!".. Then he comes over to fix it and hands you the bill.. would you then refuse to pay and argue that the costs were not discussed upfront? In this situation, don't you think you would at least have some sort of responsibility to find out about the costs beforehand?

        It doesn't actually help your case that their website actually says there's a $30 charge for each extra person (after 2 people)

        What would you do If say you ask a moving company to move houses , he comes to your house and demands either to be compensated for his time to come to you or pay the deposit . You pay the deposit and then unfortunately after 2 days you for whatever reason have to postpone the moving and are unsure about when you would need him again. Wouldnt you ask for the deposit back? and when you ask about it he just says no Im not returning it .

        If I had a removalist booked for a particular date and left a deposit via a credit card or some other form, then I turn around a few hours later and said that I need to cancel it, I definitely would not expect my deposit back. If they're happy to give it back to me, I'd take it as a bonus. But if they don't, I can't complain because I'm the one that initiated the change in the agreement. They may allow me negotiate a change in date and use the deposit towards the total cost. Because, who knows.. during the few hours, they could've turned down a few enquiries from people who wanted to move on the same day.

        You pay the deposit and then unfortunately after 2 days you for whatever reason have to postpone the moving and are unsure about when you would need him again.

        Who's fault is that? The deposit can be taken as a gesture of goodwill to say that you're going to honour your side of the agreement. And in this case, you're not.

        btw.. I'm not trying to sound harsh or anything.

      • Baysew on 22/03/2016 - 17:29

        The reason we are wanting out deposit back is we need to go overseas for an emergency

        Will $190 stop you going overseas ?

        What about cheap airline flights. Looking for cheap flights form Melbourne to south east Asia ?
        Do they refund deposits/fares due to change of mind ?

  • love86 on 22/03/2016 - 18:15
    -3

    Thanks for your reply but maybe you should read my post first , I have mentioned that we need to POSTPONE the event and will be getting in touch with him once we are back and to refund our deposit MINUS the $ 60.00 that he said he would be happy to take in case we would not put a deposit on that day . We tried ringing him on numerous times and all we get our threats towards my family .

    And since you're being the detective what difference does it make if we were looking for cheap flights during LAST CHRISTMAS PERIOD ?? Last Christmas holidays and our event that was supposed to happen in MAY how does that relate ??? How does that relate to our issue here. The airlines have terms and condition listed on their website and you have to agree to the terms and condition, Correct? None of this were discussed , advised to us

    So if someone has a situation going on and ask for OZbargain members suggestions and help , you just want to become Sherlock holmes. Good on ya

    • Ughhh on 22/03/2016 - 18:43
      +1

      What ever is your reason for postponing is irrelevant to the caterer, not his problem.

      "Postponing" 90% of the time means 'I don't want you anymore/I'm having second thoughts'. Yes we know that's not what you mean, but it doesn't matter, the vagueness of the postponed date screams change of mind excuses.

    • spackbace on 22/03/2016 - 18:44
      +8

      From what I'm reading of your replies, you're seeking validation to your viewpoint, and anyone who opposes that is shot down in flames.

      Kinda wondering why you bothered addressing the issues in a forum situation then…?

      You posed this question:

      Please advise what we can do in this situation.

      Any anyone that has advised you to just move on, is getting shot down…

      • pyramid on 23/03/2016 - 09:51

        Well said spacebace

      • love86 on 23/03/2016 - 13:17
        -1

        Im not trying to shoot down people who are opposing and neither I am trying to validate my viewpoint. Its different things that some of the posters are comparing to the situation we are in , like comparing it with buying an airline ticket whilst ignoring the fact that there are terms you have to accept before you purchase it, or comparing with calling a plumber and not expecting a bill , he doesn't say to you on the phone Ill come for free neither you would expect him to so you're prepared to make a payment for his services, if he did say I`ll come do it for free and then demands money then you wont be happy as well.

        In our issue we were pressured to do a complimentary food tasting with a condition that we can decide afterwards , however he changed when we said that we will let him know.

        Anyways Im not here trying to have an argument with people and yes you're right ,we shouldnt have bothered addressing the issues in a forum situation in the first place . +vote from us to you for making us realize our mistake

        • The Champagne Mile on 23/03/2016 - 14:50

          "In our issue we were pressured to do a complimentary food tasting with a condition that we can decide afterwards"

          Whether or not there was supposed to be a charge for your 2 x additional food tasting guests is beside the point. You don't seem to understand that by paying the caterer a $250 deposit, this can be seen as entering a binding agreement.

          As Ugggh mentioned above when referencing Fair Trading: "When you place a deposit on an item, you may be entering into a binding agreement to proceed with the transaction. If you change your mind, the trader may be entitled to retain all or part of your deposit."

          Also, you mention above that you wouldn't expect a plumber to provide a service without charging you - why then would you expect a caterer to refund a deposit you paid him when agreeing to a function on a specific date? How is that different?

          Yes, the caterer sounds like an idiot (suggest you shoudl be calling the police if he threatened to destroy your house!), but I can understand why he wouldn't feel happy about entertaining 4 x people with a free food session for what is actually a pretty small catering job (only $1000), then take a confirmed booking for a certain date (and possibly knocking other enquiries for that date back), then being asked for a refund of the money when the client turned around to say they wanted to cancel / postpone.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/03/2016 - 23:54

    It's crap losing this money, but I can't see any situation where it's feasible to get this back. If the amount was larger I'd lawyer up but for this amount it isn't worth it.

    I guarantee you will feel a lot better if you chalk this up to experience and move on with your life. And next time if you feel uncomfortable or pressured into handing over cash or signing up for something you'll now know not to; this lesson could save you a lot more than this relatively small amount in the long run.

    And when you do have the get together, why not have everyone bring something and you cook some food and supply drinks? If it's not a special occasion this can be a fun and convenient way of doing it

    • love86 on 23/03/2016 - 09:45

      Thanks for you reply. Yes that`s what we have decided to do , take it up as an worthy experience which has now prepared us to be more vigilant in future specially where money is involved . It was supposed to be a birthday party so we just decided to go with a caterer otherwise friends and family generally do bring in things and do it that way.

      • SnoozeAndLose on 23/03/2016 - 09:54

        how did you find him? facebook? other social media.

        You can complaint on his facebook page until he reply.

  • Yabadabadoo on 23/03/2016 - 19:20

    if you paid with a Visa or Master debit card you could always try a chargeback with your bank. Just look at the reasons you can charge back and see what best fits (maybe service no provided or simular). chances are he wont try to fight it with the bank.

  • SteatoLegato on 23/03/2016 - 22:19

    things ppl complain about
    lug along 2 extras for a free meal then put up a stink about paying
    then leaving a deposit larger than the payment requested - seriously, what the…!
    then cancelling the event and wanting their money back
    …
    i say suck it up princess

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