There are things that only happen in Russia, China, India and so on.
Think it may be interesting to learn your thought/experience on things that you think are uniquely Australian. No right or wrong.
First example from me.
Sorry,I am not as stupid as you are as you said,coz I work hard and invest my money widely,I just make sure my money works hard for me,so I just don't work hard for the money :)
Being spat on is the worse on public transport …
Try dealing with ARC (Antsy Racist Commuters)!
Canada has this but 10 times more better stuff
Lol I neged you for centerlink. I will now wait 3 hours for your reply.
yawns
As other said before. This doesn't only happen I Australia.
Looking at my home country Germany:
Unemployment benefits = free housing(you can nominate an apartment up to 50m2 if you're single, more if you have family), electricity, water, gas, internet, free furniture, free pc, TV, clothes + $600 a month to spend as you wish.
free tertiary education
increased tax benefit for families + extra money every month for each child + parental leave paid by the government
Of course this is financed by higher taxes / social funding coming out of your pay
I am surprised.. does Germany provide even PC, TV, clothes, and even internet for free to the unemployed? Really commendable if true. I don't doubt it though but I am surprised as it's difficult to keep track when we add such small items in the public delivery system.
How would you compare Aus unemployment benefits against it?
Hey virhlpool,
It's not provided directly, but your monthly allowance includes funds dedicated to those purposes (not only for food).
Peolle who are short on money also often rely on food stamps or free food from organisations helping poor people.
I don't know the OZ unemployment benefits in detail, but due to the bigger funding in Germany, the government can rely on a bigger pool of funds to take care of the unemploymed.
Social systems like this face the issue of people abusing it of course as people almost always find ways to trick the system to gain a personal advantage.
Also, there are certain things that cannot be taken away from you even if the debt collector comes.
Those include a normal TV (these days that would be non-smart flatscreen), an average computer, basic furniture etc. Basically things that are considered necessities and a PC and internet are now considered as such.
A bit different than here.
People wearing shorts and thongs everywhere. Even to church.
Did anyone else see this hilarious interview?
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/morning-shows/karl-a…
Love it
Lack of standard cafe/restaurant protocols:
Going to a cafe/restaurant and never knowing whether to seat myself, ask for a seat at the counter or wait for a server to seat me.
And then going to pay, never knowing whether to pay at the table or at wherever you see someone handling money.
Yeah this is a really good one.
I also noticed some cafes assume you're a regular and expect you to know the menu. There should be ample menu's around imo to make it easier for people to order.
Also, cafes/bars/restaurants kicking you out ruthlessly some 40 minutes before their official end of business hours.
Anywhere else in the world, if a business states they close at 11pm, that pretty much means they will serve customers until 10.59pm. Here it means, staff wants to lock the door and leave by 11pm, after kicking everyone out cleaning the joint.
OzBargain
Beetroot on your burger. Chicko roll. Vinegar on chips. Zinc on your face. Being called a drop kick.
Vinegar on chips came from the Brits.
Chicken salt on chips?
Comes from chickens
@greenpossum: anyone knows if chicken salt on chips is an Australian thing. haven't see it anywhere else.
@eatwell365: I've heard it started in Red Rooster in Cairns but I'm sure everyone says they started it, it's just the salt used to roast chickens that is instead used on chips. BTW some places season chickens and then put salt that falls off raw chicken back in the packaging, don't eat that sh#t.
More places in NZ offer beetroot on the menu than Australia
Vegemite
a Prime Minister that eats a raw onion whole on TV, skin and all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOff1Y7mRxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmPVCKnkKWA
That boy ain't right
That boy needs therapy
It's psychosomatic
I hear they're releasing a new album……………..
Hitting your head on the Hills Hoist while mowing the lawn with a Victa.😄
Replacing Prime Ministers as quickly and as often than I replace my socks.
Italy does that too.
Another one on PM: Australia is the only country that couldnt locate one of its PM from an ocean.
Then named a pool after him.
We can wear thongs and not get laughed at… unlike in Europe.
Government apologises for stealing indigenous kids from families, then continues stealing indigenous kids from families at much higher rates.
If you must be indigenous Australian. So many non indigenous people here.
beach bum, agree with you despite my ancestors from abroad.
any suggestion to a solution?
don't want to call our state and federal government "prostitutes" as that will make them lower.
Escorts would have more principles than some of our politicians who are all for money.
Stop selling our kids' future!!
~~duplicate ~~
Can talk about wearing thongs without getting weird looks.
Only in Australia -
One gets a fair go - As an immigrant, I can confirm this.
We openly criticize our Poli's by calling them Dickeheads etc.
Stand for election and keep your morals - spine
and yes I am indiginious also some aboriginal ancestors too
so leave out the raceism ,reverse racism guilt trip that they always use
its your country doesn't Matter what colour your born
Stand up and fight
Baby bonus :)
HILLS HOIST.WINE CASKET.BLACK BOX,THESE ARE SOME OF AUSTRALIAN INVENTIONS
ONLY IN AUSTRALIA: WELCOME!
You read to many newspapers
Every single item mentioned happened to me or is from personal experience (either myself or friends or family).
Maybe you should read more newspapers to see that what I said is right.
Example: police brutality
Australia/Queensland:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsY4ibOSw9k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rYCykXPHug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfPs6Ns2d-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o4kW7Kn6Bo
UK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZUI1TMoaU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-bIWm08eJc (full documentary - watch until they run to the other lane and punch the cops in the face, no brutality as response as it is clear these girls are vulnerable and mentally ill)
I'm not going to go through everything, but pretty much everything you say is complete bullshit.
Every single item mentioned happened to me or is from personal experience (either myself or friends or family).
Do you know what Anecdotal evidence is?
Immigration as a money making business and greediness when it comes to application fees
Nonsensical. The fees on immigration applications are normal when compared to other nations with our GDP per capita. Even the base fee for applications by skilled immigration will only cost them around 1 grand… It would be directly against Australia's interests to make our immigration process noncompetitive.
people with no or little qualifications making relatively lots of money while the highly qualified people don't
Having a degree in Aboriginal Studies doesn't mean you should make more money than everyone else that doesn't have "qualifications". The market will pay someone according to their demand - qualifications on paper should have nothing to do with it.
the most inefficient and incompetent public service system among Western and industrialised countries
What. In 2010 The World Bank found that the Australian PS was among the most efficient in the world. Other countries are trying to model themselves after us….
extreme police brutality towards the vulnerable and weak people of society (homeless, Aboriginals etc.) - I am looking at you Queensland in particular
You've never stepped foot outside of the Western World, have you? You must have grown up in an incredibly sheltered environment if you think this is true in Australia…
1 grand you say?
General skilled migration for example:
Applicant in or outside Australia
All charges shown below are in Australian Dollars.
Visa subclass Note Base application charge Non-internet application charge Additional applicant charge
18 and over Additional applicant charge under 18
Skilled - Independent (Subclass 189) 12a $3600 N/A $1800 $900
Skilled - Nominated (Subclass 190) 12a $3600 N/A $1800 $900
source: https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa/Fees
Also, did you know that if people have a student visa or a tourist visa but decide to study further or stay further to spend money in Australia, the government "rewards" them but charging them an extra $700 on top of the visa fees, merely because they already had a visa?
Yes, I agree this does not make sense as these people spend lots of money here and keep Australians in jobs but doing things that make no sense has never stopped the Australian government in my experience. Don't believe me? Check it out the website or call them on 131881.
Plus add fees for other things such as medical examinations (which often are superfluous, as in my case I had lived 5 years previously in Australia).
Also, in countries such as Germany visa application fees do not vary with the type of visa you apply for and are like $200 - which you will get refunded if your application is denied.
As regards the police: I am comparing Australia with countries that it wants to compare itself with, namely the Western world. Surely the police in some Asian countries, in the Middle East etc. are worse. But I want to compare apples with apples and not with pears or oranges while I acknowledge they are all fruit.
Never said anything about Aboriginal studies - don't know where you get that from.
However, occupations such as teachers and social workers should be paid more than jobs where no studying is required, if alone only for the reason to attract the brightest and most qualified people to these professions, as the country's future depends on education to a large extent. Teachers study for four years, incur debt, cannot earn a full-time salary in that time and hence they should be paid accordingly later to make up for that as otherwise Australia will soon be a nation of tradies, shop assistants etc.
Yes, I know what anecdotal evidence is. Again, no idea why you bring this up.
Either I have experienced it myself or have acted for friends or family (professionally, in legal capacity so I know it is not hearsay) in such situations. In fact, probably at least 80% I have experienced myself and can prove, too.
Yes, I know what anecdotal evidence is. Again, no idea why you bring this up.
He brought it up because you practically define it in the next sentence…
Either I have experienced it myself or have acted for friends or family (professionally, in legal capacity so I know it is not hearsay) in such situations.
Anecdotal evidence is not 'data,' especially when you're making broad generalisations like this. I don't care how fertile your family is, that sample size is too small to infer anything meaningful about national trends, and it's also influenced by personal biases. It's like saying NYC is a crime ridden shithole filled with pumps and CHUDs just because Homer Simpson says it is.
The fact you're cherry-picking YouTube videos to ostensibly 'prove' your 'point' speaks volumes. It's like someone using dash cam videos to paint Russia as a frozen, hellish death trap; it might be, but not because internet videos suggest it is.
As you might now I cannot post documents here I have been given in a legal capacity that actually prove the points.
Just check the news or do a bit of research on say, police brutality. Use google but also some newspaper databases available at uni libraries for free. You will dig up hundreds and hundreds of reports in the last couple of years alone. That is not anecdotal or do you seriously want to claim it is all fabricated?
You should talk to someone who has been a victim of police brutality and corruption - might change your view.
Also, maybe research the Fitzgerald Inquiry in QLD. Many high ranking police went to jail as it was not fabricated but real. Unfortunately, not too much has improved to this day. Again, research it please before you rubbish it.
Hey pal $7500 for my WIFE to live with me in Australia, a 2 year wait and fees if we want to travel outside of the country during this period.
Downright rort.
Don't worry. Australians who were born here have no idea about the immigration rort, mainly because they have never been in contact with it.
@Tyrx: I was going to write a post covering the same things - i.e. almost everything Lysander lists is either present or even worse in other countries - but I think you kinda nailed it.. +1 from me
P&ss off !!! $7500 is nothing. Try bringing your parents here and see how much it costs :) . $50.000 for each parent and few years of waiting list.
Do not have a spare $100.000 so you can live with your mom and dad ? you can elect to pay few thousand and the processing time goes up to 56 years.
56 YEARS I KID YOU NOT !!!! I might as well buy a nice coffin for my parent and me :)
$7500 is cheap if you compare the cost say to the USA or the UK. It's only a rort if you have never dealt with other countries fees.
@juventino: This sounds fare, I'm guessing that generally speaking parents are closer to retirement and could eventually be eligible for the age pension. So the importer contributes first, then the rest of us chip in. Thank you.
@stemcell: Not really! Check the partner permanent visa fees in the US or France or Germany or Singapore right now.
Those are permanent residence visas. I was referring to visas that are similar to work permits when I mentioned the 1k figure. The 189/190 visa sub-classes are priced differently because they're intended for people who want to seek permanent migration. The 189/190 visas also have special benefits such as free schooling for their kids (which is very expensive for the government to provide - sometimes the cost is greater than the government receives back in taxes) and can get grants that temporary visas holders don't normally have access to. That's like comparing apple and oranges.
@Tyrx: Dude, the government makes money on everything they can. Even extending a drivers licence costs around $270 here in Victoria, for a little plastic card. Makes Myki look really cheap.
Probably reads the Herald Sun aka the tabloid papers
You complain about extreme police brutality but have you even heard of what's happening in the USA right now with unarmed teens getting shot by police with impunity? Corruption? Wow. Have you heard of a country called Russia?
You complain about your personal liberties being infringed but when was our last Tiananmen Square? Or Kent State? Censorship? You ever heard of the NSA? Have you travelled in the UK? China?
Only someone who has never actually travelled in Africa would say with a straight face that they have more mobile coverage that we do.
I complain about 'Shittyrail' as much as the next guy, but have you been to Europe and travelled on one of their state-run trains or airlines?
Seriously, get out of your bubble and have some perspective. Literally nothing you've said is unique to Australia and you sound woefully ignorant and petulant parroting these brainless talking points. This country isn't perfect, but in many ways, we have it very good, even compared to developed countries like the USA, UK or China, to say nothing of the Somalias, Burundis or Irans of the worlds.
Russia is in a league of its own.
When I lived and worked in the US I never had issues with the cops, even in NYC. Yes, they do that too but that does not make it right in Australia.
When QLD cops got to wear guns, they killed seven (!) people in the first few months - necessity they say when they were able to handle the same things before without a gun.
Again, you are comparing Australia to Russia, China etc. Apples with oranges.
Compare it to the UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Sweden etc. Aspire to the good examples, not the bad ones.
In fact I have travelled Africa and the mobile coverage there is a good or bad as here except that Australia is considering itself an advanced first world country.
Also, I have lived in Europe (including the UK) for 25+ years so yes, I do know what I am talking about. They are better and cheaper, too, no matter how much you want to deny that truth. Conceded, the UK train system is not particularly good but look at the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, even Italy and Spain. Plus public transport is not only trains but buses, too.
NSA? Yes, you are right, the US are evil in this point. Guess who helps them like a little slave: Australia.
Increasing ISP prices? Yes, because the government requires them to build data retention centres to keep tabs on all of us forever but of course business connections are excepted - only private household data is retained (check it out, before you say it is rubbish).
Go cards in Brisbane are used to create movement profiles that are then connected with CCTV footage so the police know exactly who went where if they choose to investigate and know.
Human rights enshrined and entrenched anywhere in the constitution? Nope.
By the way, Australia does not need a Tianmen square - it had all the Aboriginal atrocities and the corruption scandals and police brutality. Go to Youtube and search for it, plenty of videos.
Anyway, if you believe everything I say is all wrong that's your right. The compensations some clients got for police brutality, wrongful imprisonment etc. say you are wrong.
Anyway, if you believe everything I say is all wrong that's your right. The compensations some clients got for police brutality, wrongful imprisonment etc. say you are wrong.
Ignore police brutality in Australia, or admit you were completely wrong? What a stupidly absolutist line in the sand you've drawn. You're being hysterical by suggesting these are unique problems to Australia (given this is, after all, a 'Things That Only Happen in Australia' thread), or that we're even a main offender. You're also a pedant because there's no country in the world which can satisfy all these complaints. Even Scandinavian countries, which you're holding to an impossible standard, have warts which include imperfect immigration policy and excessive taxation. You hold the UK as one of the 'good ones,' but complain about CCTV in Brisbane… wow! Guess what? A country which has the exact combination of no CCTV, laissez-faire policing, low crime rates, perfect migration policy and workplace succession, a spotless public transport system with endlessly polite staff, isn't racist or corrupt, without censorship, and has blazing fast internet, does not exist. So stop holding Australia to the standards of Wonderland or whatever make-believe utopia you must have been exiled from.
Listen mate, it is not the CCTV I complain about per se as the UK is plastered with them but there they have laws preventing the connecting up of information such as go card info and CCTV for no reason whatsoever. In Brisbane, this happens all the time - it is even reported by the news but I suppose they are all liars and even if not, if it does not happen to you it did not happen I suppose.
I guess the Netherlands then comes close to Wonderland or Germany, despite all of its faults. At least no one I know (personal or professional) has ever suffered the kind of police treatment dished out in Oz, the greediness by the government, salary imbalance etc. Sure, they are not perfect but the levels of the things described are unique to Australia, not the things themselves. Just the degree is much higher here than in those countries that Australia sees itself in a league with.
If you put Australia in a pot with many Asian or African countries and compare, Australia is of course almost perfect - I am happy to admit that. But it this really the standard to go by - that is the question. In my point of view it is not, maybe it is in yours and that is fine.
Also: it would be appreciated if you did not employ insults when expressing your opinion ("stupidly absolutist"). I believe this is against the site guidelines.
By the way, many point you make I did not even make. Re the internet I did not complain about the speed but merely about the fact that internet here is still on a quota rather than flat rate given that in some countries this is considered a human necessity now due to its importance for public life, job applications.
Or the perfect public staff - not perfect anywhere but if in Sweden 1 out of 100 staff is impolite and in Australia 30 out of 100 staff, then that is a significant difference and might be unique if compared to other countries in the same category. (the numbers are just an example, so don't get your knickers in a knot. They are there to merely demonstrate a point).
I have lived in several countries and what I described I have only encountered in Oz to such a high degree. Hence for me it is unique to Australia.
You will not persuade me otherwise so maybe agree to disagree, especially since this post asks for opinion and beliefs which are highly subjective anyway.
You are well travelled yet still settled here. I think about high internet charges and a flagfall every now and then , but as a upper middle class income couple who have it damn good, even after coming from a very poor and abusive childhood, I am thankful that Australia offers all that it does. Everyone has a shot in this country - you would be hard pressed to find that with many of your apple countries and certainly unlikely in a pear or orange country.
While we are on history, consider when we were settled and when most Eurozone countries were. We are a young prosperous country living on a healthy, stable continent. You go on like this is the end of the earth.
At the risk of sounding like a bogan driving a VN with a southern cross tattoo.
Don't like it? You know where the door is.
Ignoring problems and issues are not the solution but recognising them and changing them for the better.
You are right in that using that empty and useless phrase does make you sound like a bogan.
Maybe don't use it and help effect some positive change.
And the healthy stable continent thing - remember the ozone layer? Maybe check the skin cancer statistics for Australia and then reconsider. Not all is rosy in banana land.
P.S.: I am only here because of my partner and the children. Once the school is finished in two years, then it is off to other horizons work permitting.
Acknowledge is one thing.
Droning on about how this is the worst country in the world certainly isolates one in a conversation.
By the way, thank god we had the developed and developing world contributing CFCs to the beautiful hole that we have in the ozone. Certainly a lot of the ones you noted were contributing.
Put some sun screen on, get outside and lighten up.
P.S. Good luck have fun. I am from overseas, have also travelled and love this beautiful country.
How it come to be is secondary (although I agree it was very wrong) - what matters first and foremost to me and my family is that it exists and hence it is not really right to say this is a healthy continent. Yes, the world damaged it but that still makes it a damaged place, not a healthy one.
I am OK even without too much sunscreen. Due to my ancestry(American Red Indian) my skin is pretty good for the conditions and since I do not dwell in the sunshine I have never had a sun burn so far.
Attacking Australia and it's shortcomings (which include a phone call flag fall of all things) is nice and easy but the cause of a massive ozone layer hole, something that is somewhat irreparable, is now 'secondary' as soon as the argument invokes your beloved European countries?
Mod: Personal attack removed.
It's here and we have to deal with it, right?
Same in China, the pollution is dreadful but if you live there, your primary concern is keeping your children healthy, not how the pollution came to be. And certainly no one would then turn around and say the cities in China are healthy places.
I get it: Australians are proud of their country, no matter what. And that's fine. Just don't let that get in the way of the truth and realities, please.
Mod: Reply to personal attack removed.
@Lysander: Reality is, you are bummed about having to live here.
I am sure the narrative would go: work didn't pay for my visa so my wife could earn a wage we were both happy with, I want to go back to my family and therefore, never really settled into this great country. Wish I was back in the UK, damn that was a good couple of decades. Why doesn't my skin burn yet my eyes do at the word 'dolt'?
Time to jump on OzBargain and harass people talking about what they love about Australian culture. That will fix me up until the wife goes to work on Monday and the kids finish up school here. How long is two years again? Better get her resume ready.
Mod: Reply to personal attack removed
Not sure what you are on about. None of that is actually correct.
Yes, I am bummed about having to wait for four years for one answer from immigration which clearly demonstrates their incompetence. Then they provide a wrong answer in writing, then at first deny it, then admit the mistake, and then deny it again as they do not want to make good for it.
Wonder how you would feel if people then try to tell you that the Australian Public Service is the best in the world?
Or the guy who said visas only cost 1000 dollars? Who then went quiet when he found out that they cost $3,600 in the best case scenario, or as confirmed by another use almost 7,000 for a wife to join her husband?
Let us agree to disagree: you love this country, think everything is dandy and nothing should be changed or can be improved or if it can it should not be openly discussed and criticised. I have the opposite opinion. I cannot change your view (not that I want to) and you cannot change mine.
Happy Easter.
There are additional synonyms for nincompoop such as clown, dunce or ignoramus that I was going to let you know about.
Instead, I offer you a Happy Easter as well, as you have said, I love this country and no amount of atheism that I have will strip me of my Christian public holidays or inefficient public service.
You mentioned internet prices, can I please inquire as to which imaginary countries have flatrate mobile data? US charge extortionate prices for small amounts of data, Europe also charge extortionate prices for few hundred mb or few g of data, same with Asia, same with your 'perfect' countries. In fact, you're likely to find even cheaper in Australia tit for tat. The price of our normal internet is actually low once you take into account foreign exchange rate and taxes. And there are MANY plans in 2016 with virtually unlimited data, as well as many avenues to grab bargains for mobile data.
You can google any country and type police corruption and brutality and you'll get the same amount or more videos.. and not all of them show the full story. If you're going to say these problems are higher or unique to Australia, don't change your argument midway after you've already called out Australia for having 'more' of these things than other countries. This is a thread about things that only happen in Australia, and you yourself said these things happen more here - noone here said these issues don't happen in Australia or we should ignore them so stop it - you're attacking a strawman. Even based on your silly metrics (internet prices, amount of YouTube videos), you're wrong.
I can easily provide links to prove your price gripe is bull. You are obviously biased and bitter about a few bad experiences. Given the nature of your anecdotal reasoning style though, I expect you to quote Telstra prices and then compare to random cheapest data only plan in Italy. Please do not and save us all the sighs, you're going to get shamed.
People with no qualifications get paid more than those with? Did you know, qualifications are not only limited to university degrees. If you're talking about tradies, they ARE actually very qualified, just in a different way (and with different certifications!). Practical skills, man. All the academic university degrees in the world won't give you the practical know-how of how to do certain things. People also grossly overestimate what the average tradie makes. Those who gross 100K+ are few and far between. It's a common misconception.
If you mean people without your idea of suitable qualifications getting higher up positions, well, that's life. You aren't entitled to a higher paying position just because you have X qualifications and that's the way it should be. There are so many other factors,and whether you like it or not, connections, luck and savvy are a big part of it. The qualifications you hold also have little bearing on how good you are at the job - after all, simple repetition and rote memory will get you through the majority of any certification.
The fact that people who don't follow the path of tertiary education (or similar) still get paid a livable wage through other ways is a beautiful plus, not a negative.
Yes, I am bummed about having to wait for four years for one answer from immigration…
^This, so this is what all of your whinging comes down to, eh…sour bloody grapes!!! Given the self-centred, arrogant, entitled attitude you've demonstrated here, for the sake of this country I hope the answer you get is NO.
which clearly demonstrates their incompetence.
No, it simply demonstrates the huge lineup of visa applicants trying to get in here; via a government department with finite resources; at the same time as we share a worldwide border security/terrorism nightmare.
Sorry to disappoint you but
a) I did get the answer years ago;
b) Australia needs my qualifications with its innovation agenda for the benefit of the country, including yours;
c) the fact that you ignore the fact that their own declared service standard is 30 days but it took almost 1380 days to supply an answer to a simple question (which only arose as they had a mistake previously) is not really a shining example of the competence and efficiency of immigration;
(d) this happened well before the border security/terrorism nightmare (and had nothing to do with that anyway but skills assessment and not fitting into their simplified categories - in essence, immigration wanted a document from a skills assessing authority that such authority had never issues and would never issue and had told immigration so many times with that info even being on their website - talk about logic there).
And I am not even sour about the fact they made mistakes. It is about the fact they are trying to hide it and cover it up despite having their blunder in writing, and the fact that they are not trying to make good for it.
I am sure if you make a mistake in a private company (say at your work - install the wrong muffler), you are required to make up for it (take the wrong muffler off, put the correct one one at no extra charge) - not so in government as they can get away with it here.
And by the way, if you look at the immigration statistics for the last couple of years you will find that the number of people wanting to come here has decreased and the number of people going back, for example to the UK, despite having permanent residency has increased. Don't hate me for it - the statistics show that.
And that's it for me. Have a Happy Easter.
If you really wanted to know about it without being insulting I am happy to send you the whole written up timeline of incidents and then you can assess that objectively whether you would be happy with it if it happened to you, especially if you tried to do everything by the book.
@Lysander: As I've said to others before you, this is really simple…if you're not happy here, quit your bitching, I'll gladly drive you to the airport & wave goodbye as you leave for one of the many countries you consider a better option.
b) Australia needs my qualifications with its innovation agenda for the benefit of the country, including yours;
Don't stress too much, despite your grandiose claims that we need your…ROFLMFAO…unique super powers, we got by for a couple of centuries without you, I'm pretty sure we can muddle through in perpetuity after you've departed our shores…but thanks for the laugh anyway.
You are right to a certain extent and that is not what I meant. But for some jobs you need academic qualifications AND practical ones such as teaching as that is not an area we can afford to simply give it a go.
What is often forgotten in Australia is the incentive to study for jobs like teaching.
For example:
If you have 2 people who are eighteen years old, say Michael and Tom.
Michael starts an apprenticeship and then becomes a tradie (carpenter). He earns money right away, first apprenticeship wages, then full time.
Tom studies to become a chemistry and physics teacher which requires about five years all up. In that time, assuming he concentrates on study and practical experiences which he should, he does not earn any money but incurs debt, namely about $50,000 all up (probably the figure is too low but it will do for this example). When Tom finishes, he will start with maybe $50,000 a year.
In all that time though Michael has been earning money so at the point where Tom starts Michael has already earned $250,000. Now both Michael and Tom earn money but not only can Tom not catch up with Michael (as he has a headstart and probably earns more) he also has debts to pay off.
Now one can say that's Tom's fault as he could have chosen to be a tradie, too. On an individual level that is true of course.
However, on a macroeconomic level it is not beneficial to Australia (or any other country) if everybody chooses to become a tradie rather than studying teaching. Also, without knocking tradies, teachers provide the education, the basis, for all other jobs and professions and hence are unique important. So to motivate people to take up this very important profession crucial to the nation's well-being there should be incentives, often in the form of wages. Either teachers earn $150,000 a year or other professions earn less, in relation to the effort it took to qualify for such profession (and the importance of the job maybe - saying it extremely, a nation without carpenters can survive but a nation without teachers or doctors cannot)
While I appreciate that this cannot be and should not be the only factor, it is a very significant factor. This is why in many other countries it is unheard of that tradies earn more than $60,000 annually, to keep everything proportional to the efforts required to qualify for a job and the consequences of it (loss of income, incurring of debt) as otherwise most people would go for the jobs which have a high salary with little or no studying required. That would leave countries without doctors, teachers, engineers, scientists, pharmacists etc. which clearly is not beneficial.
Happy Easter.
Yes you have. First, with convicts as slave labour and now through selling resources which has nothing to do whatsoever with your own efforts and achievements - merely luck that the resources are here. And even to do that you need machinery which clever people abroad invented.
What if the Aboriginals say they want their land back that was stolen from them? You don't like the idea? They say to you: Don't like it, p.. off. Wonder whether you say, fair enough?
I mean in all fairness, even some of your prime ministers are imports - clearly Australia does require skills, especially medical skills otherwise they would not raid the UK, the US, Canada, NZ, and Ireland every year.
You might be OK without these people but a lot of other people would not be without the skills the immigrants bring.
Your attitude seems to be: come here, bring your skills, benefit us but if you have any problems or issues, shut the f… up or we will kick you out. You can benefit us but don't dare to criticise us.
Yes, I can see that is very mature and very conducive to an open discussion to maybe effect change for the better for the whole country (hard to do if they bad points cannot be mentioned as otherwise one gets bullied into submission by insults etc., hey?)
My opinion differs to yours and that is fine. If you find any other plausible arguments other than the "bogan" argument (as mentioned by another user) of "Leave", then I am happy to listen and be convinced otherwise. But that default argument when running out of plausible arguments I cannot take seriously, sorry.
Anyway, have a Happy Easter and don't get too upset please.
Anyway, have a Happy Easter and don't get too upset please.
Says the guy who just typed the above walls of text…
@Lysander: Yeah, right…
You're clearly still quite emotionally invested in this yourself…I'll put this in simple terms for you, so what, you got lost in an imperfect clerical system; boo-hoo, quit your whining, get over it & move on with your life FFS. That can be your Easter resolution. ;)
I have a better idea. I am suing for compo and for change. So it will benefit me and future applicants as when the government has to pay money strangely enough it learns and things change.
Wonder why? ;-)
I have a better idea. I am suing for compo and for change.
I have no problem with that, you are living in a country where you are fully entitled to seek your maximum legal redress when you feel that you have been mistreated by an individual, organisation or government entity. Luckily, your case will most likely be judged fairly & on it's merits, largely free from bias or corruption.
Just be thankful that you have that right here…I can assure you that in a lot of other countries you absolutely would not.
True, but in the countries I have lived it would and likely it would not have even had to go that far there. Also, how fair and unbiased it will be in Queensland remains to be seen - I do remember the reasons for the Fitzgerald inquiry.
No incentive in other countries to do so as immigration is not considered a business branch that is supposed to make
money.
I would not sue in countries such as Thailand of course but I do hold Australia up to higher standards as that is what it deserves.
It is like Australia playing the Netherlands in rugby - would not be a good measurestick but playing NZ would. So same here, I compare Australia to Western European countries and not the Asian region countries as Australia easily wins hands down due to the standards there (corruption, dictators etc.).
@Lysander: Now, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you're like a dog with a bloody bone here, you're just coming across as a chronic whinger…you need to let it go mate, you're carrying far too much baggage over whatever happened to you in the system…for your own sake, get over it.
It's nearly lunchtime on Easter Sunday, try to get out & have some fun mate, sounds like you need it…
You are probably right with your dog-bone example. Unfortunately, my experience here is that one needs to be like a pitbull with the government as otherwise there are no results. Had I not been like that before I would still be waiting for my reply six years later.
Have a Happy Easter. I am working so for me Easter is just a normal working day (without penalty rates as I do not believe in them).
I see you chose to ignore my internet prices post and be selective about what you replied to (even though you spent 4 of your points rambling on about it). Good boy :)
Your point is moot because it doesn't take into account that many tradies don't make anywhere near as much as you claim - you are furthering a misconception. Those that make significantly over 60K (before tax) are actually in a minority. Those who do make over that amount also work for ungodly hours vs a teacher even given the lesson plan preparation required and have an extensive expense list. 12 hour shifts and weekend work are not out of the norm for a tradie. Even for contractors, it's not as simple as go to someone's house, make $100 per hour. You seem to be ignorant of what the job really entails and the expenses incurred cutting into profit. If anything, there is an oversaturation of those with degrees (including teaching degrees) and a lack of those going into tradie fields. Universities are pumping out thousands and thousands of graduates as they are not concerned with demand. The issue with Australia is that there is a lack of teachers in the science, maths and technology departments as they lack incentive to specialise, which could involve a pay raise for these professions, but as a whole there is no shortage for those interested and venturing into teaching - job preference plays a big role which is why people don't want to be tradies. On the whole, the tradie shortage is even worse. The nation needs trades just as much as it does teachers. You are appealing to the logical fallacies of extremes by saying things like if there are no teachers and all trades the nation can't function. No sh*t. It'd crumble just as much without tradies - people used to survive just fine without education (in many countries it used to be prohibitively expensive), you cannot say the same about having no tradies.
One other really silly thing is comparing money to age, ignoring completely the effort put in. A 13 year old could work at maccas for 10 years and gasp, have made 500k in the time the teacher wasted to study. No need for high school! What injustice.
You also are not taking into account the ease of which one is able to get into the degree of studying to be a teacher. The university entry requirements are extremely low. Therefore, the pay reflects this. The debt incurred also is nowhere near 50K. That is a preposterous number - students aren't getting charged 17K a year, or even 12.5K for a double degree. The norm is a 3 year undergrad course. Please refrain from pulling numbers out of your ass. The pay might be lacking compared to other countries but to pull the teacher vs trade card riddled with misconceptions in order to throw a blanket statement about how those with no qualifications get paid more is quite tired. Guess what too - people can study while they work. Who would have thought? You brush off entire years of work as if it is nothing. Yes they have no debt now, but they worked for 4 more friggen years for little pay, and the people studying can easily pick up part time or full time with night classes (or when they complete practicals can become the teacher version of an apprentice). Oh, and even if you choose not to work (having heaps of free time which you can use to develop ways to make money) welfare benefits while you're studying actually returns quite a huge amount over that 3-4 year period which lessens the gap considerably.
@Lysander: That's going to be expensive. My cousin took dept immi to court and it cost them > $100k, and they even won.. No chance at compensation for legal costs. Good luck in your endeavours, but I'd strongly suggest to build up a big war chest first.
Thanks for the info. However, I am happy to represent myself. Also, my embassy supports me due to the amount of mistakes made by immigration and they are not amused by it - hence I doubt immigration will let it even go to court due to the potential publicity and international embarassment. Hopefully they have learned from the past.
Look, if you are tradie, this is not personal. And I am not going to engage in this conversation as clearly you have not done your research on some issues.
As an example, here is some info from the Uni of Sydney for Bachelor of Education (primary) which lasts four years full time.
As you can see if you manage to get a Commonwealth supported place you still incur almost $25,000 debt for the degree in fees alone. If you do not get such a place it can easily almost double.
Regarding the entry standards, if you look at the English requirements, getting a 7.5 overall results in IELTS is not that easy and studies do show that a majority of native speakers (US, UK, Australia etc.) do not attain this level without actually studying for it quite hard and practising the test intensely. If you do not believe me, feel free to contact any IELTS tutor in the country.
I am not familiar with the other entry requirements, so whether you are correct or incorrect in that regard I cannot really assess. However, the people I know who got into that degree at the good unis did have to show pretty good high school results.
Course code:
BUEDPRIM3000
Duration for domestic students:
4 years full-time
Commonwealth Supported Place (CSP) fee:
If you commence your studies after 1 January 2016, the fee is $6,256.00 per year of full-time study of 48 credit points (1.0 EFTSL). Fees are indicative and may differ based on the subjects you choose. For more information please visit our future students website.
Course abbreviation:
BEd (Primary)
UAC code:
511600
ATAR for 2016:
85.00
English language requirements:
IELTS: A minimum result of 7.5 overall including a minimum result of 7.0 in Reading and Writing and 8.0 in Listening and Speaking TOEFL paper-based: A minimum result of 615 overall including a minimum result of 5.0 in Writing TOEFL IBT: A minimum result of 105 overall including a minimum result of 23 in Reading and 25 in Writing and 27 in Listening and Speaking
Regarding your price issues, for example mobile internet in Germany is flat rate and works in the same way as some of the fixed line plans here - you have a certain quota of extremely fast internet and once that is used up the internet slows down but it is unlimited at no extra costs. The slowed down speed is still sufficient for normal browsing, social media, e-mail etc. Sure, it is not sufficient for HD footie streaming or so but it is normal to get such plans (including unlimited phone calls and texts) for about $20-22 AUD. Not even talking about the fixed line services which are definitely much cheaper than here.
Regarding the pay gaps, do a real life comparison with real people and then see. If you take study seriously there is not really that much free time which one can use to work. Also, if you say study and a job then you have to compare that with a tradie working as such plus also doing an extra job after his or her regular job.
Alternatively, according to you a student must study full time and do part time work in order to not let the gap get too big?
I am currently in Tasmania and know a good number of electrician apprentices that in their second year clear well above $60,000 and that is in their apprenticeship.
Yes, while it is good everybody can earn a living these high wages result in high prices making Australian labour uncompetitive (why do you think the car manufacturers all leave Australia and choose to merely sell products here rather than manufacture them) and making it hard for some industries to survive (tourism for example).
That is it for me. So please do not expect any more replies regarding this. It is Easter and I am at work (forgoing penalty rates as I do not believe in them and think they harm businesses) I really have to keep working so everything is ready when normal work resumes on Wednesday.
Happy Easter.
^ someone give this man more money