Kickstarter Refund

charzy on 26/04/2016 - 17:21
Last edited 26/04/2016 - 17:35

Hello all. I think this is a bit controversial so I've decided to post this out.

Last year I made a pledge for an item. The item was told that it would have support for both iOS and Android. However when it was released recently, they only had support for iOS with Android coming out months later.
The company allowed for a refund if backers chose to do so. Seeing that it took much longer than their ETA and I only had an android phone, I accepted the refund.
What I wasn't told was that I'd have 8% deducted from my total pledge, reason that kickstart takes 8% off the pledge that the creators receive and that I, the backer, absorb the cost.

Do you think it's reasonable for the backer to absorb the cost, or for the company to absorb the cost? (cost being what kickstarter takes from the pledge).

I'm very peeved as I essentially handed out free money, interest free to them, to receive it back with negative dollars.
Not only that they're going to sell the one I copy I refunded, for at least 40% more than what I pledged, so they will be making more than I lost.

Edit:
Had a bit of a google around:
http://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter-lesson-168-how-kickst…
This article essentially says they know they are going to lose the 8%.
In my case they decided to pass the fee onto the backer.

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Comments

  • deanylev on 26/04/2016 - 17:59
    +12

    When you back a Kickstarter, you take that risk. You're extremely lucky you even got a refund in the first place. Kickstarter projects are not stores, and they have absolutely 0 guarantees. I've never backed one, and never plan to.

    • charzy on 26/04/2016 - 18:39
      +1

      I'm not arguing whether or not I'm entitled to a refund.

      • deanylev on 26/04/2016 - 19:05

        I'm not saying you are (personally I think you are morally). I'm just explaining the facts.

  • bamzero on 26/04/2016 - 18:15

    How does your credit card see the purchase? Maybe you could go the chargeback route, depending how long ago it was?

    I've given up on crowd funded projects now. Backed one a while ago, took an extra year from the ETA to receive and was never a completed product.

    Gave it one more go, this ones ETA has been pushed by 6 months already (though I'm slightly more confident this one will be a completed product when(if?) I receive it)

    Getting a bit tired of every project being listed as "The Worlds First whatever" too :)

    • charzy on 26/04/2016 - 18:42

      I've already accepted the refund, but wasn't aware they'd deduct the 8% off. Essentially 50$ aud out of pocket (due to currency rate back then and now included), which is pretty shitty considering they're going to be making an extra 100usd selling the units I didn't want.

  • mskeggs on 26/04/2016 - 19:10
    +2

    So you want them to refund the money they received, plus an extra amount to cover the platform fees?
    Or you could wait and get your thing later.
    I think they were generous offering the refund for the delay, most projects just drag on and on.

    • charzy on 26/04/2016 - 19:29

      Yes I wanted them to cover the kickstarter fee for which the cost according to kickstarter should be worn by the creator, not the backer. The creator has the option to refund the full amount that the backed pledged, but in this case they chose to deduct the fee deliberately.

      I had a think about holding out for the Android version, but considering that that there are more android users than iOS, and they had their priorities first for iOS (which is still buggy according to comments), I thought it'd be wiser to accept the refund as android development would be very slow.

      You can say they were being generous, or it was a smart financial move. They would sell the same unit that he original backer refunded, to sell to someone someone else for an extra 50%, which would work in their favor if there was a backorder (which I assume they ran out of stock as you need to preorder the next batch).

      • mskeggs on 26/04/2016 - 20:49
        +8

        They already have given you back 100% of the money they received from your pledge. You need to take up any issues about platform fees with Kickstarter.
        Asking them to give you back more than they received, because you think they are selling something elsewhere is kind of weird.

        • charzy on 27/04/2016 - 08:46

          They did not refund the full amount of the pledge.
          After a few messages on the comments channel, (I was still considered a backer as they did not refund the full amount I assume, and so I could still post on their kickstarter page), they then refunded the rest of the monies.
          After they did so, I cannot comment on the comments to say thank you; It says it's restricted to backers which I assume they only issued a partial refund initially, as I was able to still comment as a backer before being fully refunded.

  • mintysaurus on 26/04/2016 - 19:16

    Have you contacted kickstarter to see if that's something they approve of? I understand they can do partial refunds but they might not be intended to be used for this purpose

  • rhimes on 26/04/2016 - 19:43

    I think it's reasonable. It's a pledge to contribute funds, not a pre-order. You accept this risk on the kickstarter…. They're also still delivering the feature you wanted, just late. You should view any portion you get back as bonus. Also - unless this is a physical item, they're not making more money on the sale of the item you're not taking, unless you're going to buy it at retail yourself later.

  • Diji1 on 26/04/2016 - 20:06
    +5

    I don't understand Kickstarter users, they seem to think they're buying property or rights when they hand over money to fund some guys pipedream … and then they get shitty when it goes better than most crowdfunded ventures and they get handed most of their money back.

    Oh and they expect the developer of whatever product it was to now pay them as small percentage out of their own money as well just because … why are you so special rofl?

    • charzy on 26/04/2016 - 20:35
      -3

      I didn't say I wanted a royalties of their rights/patents or be recognised as part of their venture, so don't make irrelevant assumptions. If anything by backing their project, I helped give them a means to achieve their 'pipedream' without taking it away, interest free from me in this scenario. So I don't know what you are going on about buying people's property or rights.

      I did not ask for a refund initially. They offered the refunds first to all backers via email, which I accepted. They did not discloser they were going to reduce it by the kickstarter fee. Why they offered the refunds, I don't know exactly. They stated their reason being that the android version is coming out much later, which if is the case, they were not liable to offer a refund. The only reason I can think of is that they have a massive backorder at the higher price, and want to fulfill those asap.

      Looking at it from a larger picture, they essentially will make more money for selling the units I opted a refund for at at higher price, whilst making me absorb their kickstarter fee, which they won't be charged for by the second buyer.

      Essentially I was offered a refund, and I expected a full refund, not a half arsed refund. If not, they should disclose initially that they were going to take a cut. Otherwise I would've kept the product and sold it at higher price down the track getting back my cost plus profit, as the preorder price now is 50% above what I paid for at backing.

  • mskeggs on 26/04/2016 - 20:50

    What product is this?

  • airzone on 26/04/2016 - 21:55

    I supported a different indegogo project about 16 months back. It's on the fence 50/50 whether or not it will deliver, but we are 12 months past it's expected delivery and it's already obsolete. I've basically written off $65usd over the exercise and will -never- support another crowdfunded project until again… Unfortunately for every one pebble project, there are a million other ideas that while good, are poorly executed.

  • Lostatsea12 on 27/04/2016 - 09:36

    If this is the project that I think it is (a great way to find you car???) then I got the offer as well and the 8% deduction was clearly stated. I have a second one where they have cancelled the order and kept 40% of money!

    Is Kickstarter a good platform - yes, is it safe for "investors"? No more than investing in any startup.

  • Flatlined on 27/04/2016 - 11:09
    +1

    So some dude tells you he is building a teleporter to go back in time. It will be finished in 6 months. You buy a ticket for the first ride.

    The project comes in 3 years later and of course doesn't work. Your money is spent and you're dissatisfied to say the least.

    Pipe-dreamer rubs his hands together, walks away and cons another 5000 "there's a mug born every day" charity supporter. No guarantees, no warranties, no liquidated.damages, no contract of any value. You're stuffed. The promoter has no liability to anyone.

    The platform gets their cut regardless so they don't care about either party.

    I really don't "get" Kickstarter.

    • mskeggs on 27/04/2016 - 12:46

      Or, you spend $20 on a card game you think looks pretty good from a game designer that has previously made well reviewed games.
      He takes everyone's money and uses it to publish the game himself, sends you a copy on time that is good quality and fun, then he retails the game at $25, and made a bigger profit than the old way letting him go create more cool stuff.

      For some stuff it is an excellent innovation.

  • mskeggs on 27/04/2016 - 12:43

    65% of projects deliver on-time, only 9% failed to deliver at all, and you potentially get access to stuff before the general public and often at a good price.
    I personally have kickstarted a couple of small things like card games and minor electronics with fair success (one item was cancelled for full refund, one item is months delayed, others on time).
    http://gizmodo.com/one-year-of-kickstarter-purchases-reviewe…

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