Is this car sale 100% legit?

pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 12:02

One of the big dealers is buying my car. I've never sold a car here in Oz and just wanted to check all is above board.

Guy calls about my car through private add… turns up at my house, I'm OK with the offer. I get to keep the car for a week and it's collected. At this point they will provide me with a remittance. They have my bank details.

I've signed two documents and he took the rego.

I signed one tax government form and a sale trade in form. The latter a half page form with no T&C's.

Is this normal for a sale of this type?

Automotive

Comments

  • stevednj48 on 29/04/2016 - 12:34
    +18

    Don't let him have the car until you actually see the money appear in your bank account.

  • psyren89 on 29/04/2016 - 12:46
    +6

    You should have specified bank cheque only.

    • pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 14:41

      I didn't know this was an option at the time as he only asked for my bank details.

      Is it worth calling them and asking for a bank cheque? How will i know it's a legit cheque as i presume then i hand over the keys and they the cheque?

      • psyren89 on 29/04/2016 - 15:22
        +1

        You could offer to cover the cost of the bank cheque if they complain (<$20).
        To verify that it's legit, you could also ask for statements/receipts from the issue of the bank cheque.

        Here's a thread from someone in a similar position a few years ago: https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1518588

        • pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 15:40

          Thanks, sounds like the way to go. If they moan i'll drop the car off myself at the dealership - i would trust them to pay having the remittance slip in my hand.

        • malich on 01/05/2016 - 11:49

          @pilotg2:

          If the bloke is financing, most finance companies do not offer bank cheques.

          Agree that thw safest thing to do is wait for the cleared funds

    • captobvious on 30/04/2016 - 11:26
      +4

      I would have gotten it in cash, $100s in wads handed over outside a federal government building

  • alz on 29/04/2016 - 12:46

    Sounds suss.

  • spackbace on 29/04/2016 - 12:46

    He'll have other forms to sign when he comes to pick up the key. Normally they offer a cheque, I guess he asked which was more convenient for you.

    Do you or he have the transfer forms?

    • pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 16:48

      I'm not fully up to speed with the terms, but the only piece of paper he took is what I understand to be the rego, the form i was sent when my vehicle tax was due.

      • ATangk on 30/04/2016 - 12:35

        That rego form has a top and bottom section, one for yourself and one for the buyer. Is this the one you are talking about? (It is all he needs to get the vehicle registered at RMS)

  • the-mal on 29/04/2016 - 13:15
    +1

    Is this normal for a sale of this type?

    The forms sound like the normal forms for a trade-in.

    Was the offer a reasonable offer or are you pretty desperate to get the car off your hands? At this point I'd only be concerned if the offer was too good to be true. A big dealer isn't going to hunt you down to pay market rates - they'll scour hundreds and thousands of private sale ads and send out heaps of contacts to see who takes the bait, but they'll only be looking for cars they can flip for a decent profit so usually the only people who accept the offer are those who are desperate to sell.

    Did the person you dealt with give you a business card / full name / contact details? If you're concerned ring the big firm he works for and validate his details.

    • spackbace on 29/04/2016 - 13:23

      A big dealer isn't going to hunt you down to pay market rates - they'll scour hundreds and thousands of private sale ads and send out heaps of contacts to see who takes the bait

      Sorry but that's a no… they scour them, then call, ask their own questions, then try to negotiate. They don't just 'send contracts' lol

      • the-mal on 29/04/2016 - 15:02

        They don't just 'send contracts' lol

        Re-read. Contacts, not contracts. As in they make contact with the sellers.

        • spackbace on 29/04/2016 - 15:03
          +3

          My apologies :)

    • pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 14:57

      I had the car advertised for 2 weeks with no better offer or anyone viewing. It's a fair price considering a trade in but not great deal that is for sure. The car is in excellent condition and easy for them to flip at a few grand more and he said they make their money on finance. The dealership is only 3km away so not a far trip for him to have a look.

      I did however get very lucky buying the car $4k less than the advertised price due to an internet miss price which for some unknown reason they honored. I always thought it was going to blow up or there must be something wrong with it as i have bought a lemon (ex rental) before so i inspected every inch of this car and it turns out it has been a good one. Anyway it has a warranty till 2018.

      I have his business card and the company is Australia's largest automotive retailer.

      • psyren89 on 29/04/2016 - 15:20

        Australia's largest automotive retailer

        Which is… what?

        • spackbace on 29/04/2016 - 15:22
          +1

          Sounds like AHG

        • psyren89 on 29/04/2016 - 15:23

          @Spackbace:

          I suspected as much, but he wasn't explicit.

      • psyren89 on 29/04/2016 - 15:24
        +1

        If he did give you a business card, investigate the business online, call up any listed numbers and see if he is indeed an employee.

  • User78426 on 29/04/2016 - 13:18

    Make sure money is in your available balance and is withdraw-able. if you aren't 100% sure, don't sign the transfer forms or any other forms.

    • pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 15:02
      +1

      I like this idea, i could then move the money immediately into my saving account online. However i don't know if they would do this as it would mean i have the car and money.

      I guess i could drop the car off myself at the dealership (it's only down the road) get the remittance slip(?) and that way it's surely got to be legit.

  • ChrisLevo on 29/04/2016 - 13:20
    +1

    I just bought a new car, and was told bank cheque only, which was no problem.

    I would be insisting on the same thing as a vendor.

  • mskeggs on 29/04/2016 - 13:40
    +1

    Similar happened to me as a young whippet.
    Unfortunately, the dealer delayed payment, costing me an extra month of finance costs.

    Taught me to be careful of dealers and not buy cars on finance, so I am ahead overall.

    • pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 15:04

      No finance thankfully.

  • pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 13:46

    Thanks for the reply.

    I'm not fully up to speed with the terms,but the only piece of paper he took is what I understand to be the rego. I was sent this form when my vehicle tax was due.

    Will answer other q in an HR.

  • pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 15:38

    I presumed the binding bit of the deal is the "Statement by a supplier" filled out with my details. I'm happy for the deal to go ahead BUT out of interest how does this form apply considering no goods have been transferred and could this form at a latter stage stop them paying the full agreed amount?

    • spackbace on 29/04/2016 - 16:03
      +2

      That acts like a tax invoice effectively.
      I'm 99.99% sure the deal is perfectly fine. Don't stress.

      • pilotg2 on 29/04/2016 - 16:46

        I'm more confident now - it just seemed a little "smooth".

        Re the Statement this is what i signed (last page) https://www.ato.gov.au/uploadedFiles/Content/MEI/downloads/B… - the withhold 46.5% is the bit i'm wondering about?

        So if this is just for tax i presume nothing is binding in the deal. As he was leaving he did ask me to delete the add - i guess in case i got a better offer.

  • robertbruce on 30/04/2016 - 10:32

    tha;s a bit weird they are not picking this nick up straight away and are prepared to wait a week for it, that is really a bit weird…
    Was there a reason given for the delay? eg disbursement? or time taken for money to deposit to your account?
    A dealer doesnt need any paperwork to "acquire" your car, make sure the funds are cleared before you hand-over…

    • pilotg2 on 30/04/2016 - 10:45
      +1

      I asked if i can keep the car for the week as have a few things to sort out, to which he agreed.

      • robertbruce on 30/04/2016 - 10:59

        tha's darn considerate of him, must have made his bonus's already… Mind you, a "week" makes it "next month" so this buy is sitting pretty for EOM (end of month) or SOM (start) figures.

        Either way your sitting pretty having a franchise buyer hit on it.

  • robertbruce on 30/04/2016 - 10:39

    Another weird bit…

    Extract from form…

    "You also should not withhold an amount from a payment if
    you are satisfied that one of the following applies:
    n the supply is made by an individual or partnership without
    a reasonable expectation of profit or gain
    n the supplier is not entitled to an ABN as they are not carrying
    on a business or enterprise in Australia
    n the whole of the payment is exempt income for the supplier.

    Can anyone explain why this form is involved in this sale?

    • pilotg2 on 30/04/2016 - 10:48

      This is what i'd love to know. I was told it was for tax and given it says "Australia Taxation Office" on the top of the form i had no reason to doubt it.

    • spackbace on 30/04/2016 - 10:51

      It's used for every customer trading a car in, the box marked 'was used for a hobby or for private use' (or some such) is what gets ticked. All the rest is only required for a business (they also need to provide a tax invoice).
      You're selling something, therefore the tax department needs to know it wasn't as a business.

      If you get what I mean :P

      Not sure why the forms are used when dealerships take possession, and not for private transfers, but there ya go.

      • pilotg2 on 30/04/2016 - 11:00

        Thanks Spackbace, so from what you can see - would i be able to walk away from this deal without penalty?

        • spackbace on 30/04/2016 - 11:01

          Why do you want to walk away?

  • pilotg2 on 30/04/2016 - 11:06

    Reason for sale was my wife was offered a job in Sydney with her old company she used to work for in another country (they only based in Sydney) after no luck getting work where we are. Yesterday she gets offered a job locally (after 8 months of looking) and now no longer wants to move!!! So we'd rather keep the car.

    • spackbace on 30/04/2016 - 11:49

      If you want to keep it then just call the dealer and explain. Try to say that it's not like you got a better offer or anything.

    • ronnknee on 30/04/2016 - 15:47

      I don't get it. If you want to keep the car then why are you still selling?

  • robertbruce on 30/04/2016 - 11:08

    OIC, perhaps dealers have to use them to keep the ATO off thier backs from the back-yarders

  • robertbruce on 30/04/2016 - 11:49

    spew'n wot…chances are there is already a transaction occurring between accounts and you signed a form with clear intention to sell…

    Honesty and relying on the good graces of the dealer may be the way to go… they are unlikely to get legal but as soon as that payment makes your account all bets are off….

    how inconvenient, can you cancel your bank account?

  • [Deactivated] on 30/04/2016 - 14:57
    +1

    Simple - meet him at the bank and withdraw the money on the spot then hand over the keys. That's what I did when I sold my car and got a bank cheque.

  • GameChanger on 01/05/2016 - 00:12

    Car salesmen are slimy, make sure you have read all the paper work.

    And just because they're big, doesn't mean they won't bend you over.

    • spackbace on 01/05/2016 - 00:36

      Or… And here's a thought… It's actually the OP that is going to re-neg on the deal they made, after clearly saying 'yep the car is yours'. (as they've already stated that's what they wanna do).
      But you know, if the opposite happened and a dealership sold a car to someone after a contract was signed by someone else it would be a big thing.

      Point is, car salespeople are just people doing a job, and in fact get lied to and deceived more than the reverse.

      Not that you'll believe me anyway.

      • GameChanger on 01/05/2016 - 00:45

        I'm not sure how customers can lie or deceive a dealership which spealises in cars?

        From the OP story it seems the dealership identified that the car was undervalued and did bit of a sales job on them. I think its more than fair if the OP negs on a deal if they find out the value offered was far below fair value.

        • spackbace on 01/05/2016 - 00:51
          +1

          I'm not sure how customers can lie or deceive a dealership which spealises in cars?

          Every customer lies, it's a known common occurrence.
          "yeah I've seen this car advertised for $x, can you match it?"
          Consults Carsales
          "ah that's actually advertised for $x + $2000."
          "Oh. But can you do $x?"

          I could go on and on about the lies.

          From the OP story it seems the dealership identified that the car was undervalued and did bit of a sales job on them. I think its more than fair if the OP negs on a deal if they find out the value offered was far below fair value.

          But if a member of the public bought it for the same price, that's not allowed? It's bad because a business bought it, so no deal?

          So if you were buying something, agreed on the price, then the seller went back on the sale (after shaking on it) because they got a higher offer, you'd be cool with that?

          Interesting moral compass

        • pilotg2 on 01/05/2016 - 10:19
          +1

          @Spackbace:

          Just to add, i don't want out of the deal because of the price or a higher offer. Circumstances have changed and i want to keep the car.

          I actually think the price i was offered is fine and very,very fair considering a oneway trade in (i'm not buying anything). 1.5k less i reckon would be the standard trade in price, which i was offered by another car buyer. I honestly believe he'll flip it for around 2k more and hope for his finance kickback.

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